2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
4
18%
Raiders 1-12
8
36%
Draw
0
No votes
Panthers 1-12
3
14%
Panthers 13+
7
32%
 
Total votes: 22

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Seiffert82
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: April 5, 2021, 4:53 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 5, 2021, 7:41 am
julian87 wrote: April 5, 2021, 6:55 am
-TW- wrote: April 4, 2021, 9:36 pm Leave Young where he is, he's gone to another level since winning that jersey

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I don’t agree with this at all.

I think him being kept there defensively makes sense. But he went to another level late last season playing in the middle and he’s continued that.

Agree with Pig saying that everything great he’s doing on an edge is also suited to middle third play.
Huddo is being set up to be our long term edge back rower. Not going to change. We have enough middles.
It wont be his future for long if he doesnt figure out what he's doing as a line runner on the edge. Whitehead should be able to help, and studying the Kikau tape should help. Hope we see it soon.
I'm genuinely interested in what you're looking for in Young's line running in that position.

I get that CHN offers ball playing that Young doesn't, but I'm interested in the other aspects of his game.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by afgtnk »

Botman wrote: April 4, 2021, 9:38 pm This would be a game I would happily play Young on the edge even if CHN was in the team and playing great

Everything I’ve seen this year has cemented in my mind what his skill set is and where it is best suited
However he is our best option to answer Kikau. If all he does is tackle that dude and stop him wrecking our game, that’s a perfectly cromulent contribution.

So that’s that on that for me this week
We can talk edge after this
I would like to see Guler and CHN come I on the bench for Sia and Lui
But i don’t see changes coming
You and I completely agree on where Young is best served in this side moving forward. I can't agree at all with the thinking towards this match though.

If we want to actually beat the highest level of opposition, a containment strategy against against a top team like the Panthers won't work very well - they're too well rounded. Nulify Kikau and they've simply got half a dozen other threats to come at us with. That's the difference between them and the likes of the Titans, where if you contain Fifita you go half way to winning. This team would still be sweet without Kikau playing - he's icing on the cake, as opposed to the cake itself.

We have to try and not only match their level, but go above it. The only way we can do that IMO is to take it to them, instead of trying to hold them off and working to drag them down to our level. That to me has to include playing the likes of CHN, who's an attack minded second rower and the guy we recruited to play in the starting 13 to replace Bateman. He gives us strong lines on the right that we don't have, and can help to get that right side into the game that was catching a cold on Saturday.

If we go out there looking just to stop them rather than impose ourselves, I give us little to no chance of winning. They're too good for that.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Botman »

afgtnk wrote: April 5, 2021, 5:51 pm
Botman wrote: April 4, 2021, 9:38 pm This would be a game I would happily play Young on the edge even if CHN was in the team and playing great

Everything I’ve seen this year has cemented in my mind what his skill set is and where it is best suited
However he is our best option to answer Kikau. If all he does is tackle that dude and stop him wrecking our game, that’s a perfectly cromulent contribution.

So that’s that on that for me this week
We can talk edge after this
I would like to see Guler and CHN come I on the bench for Sia and Lui
But i don’t see changes coming
You and I completely agree on where Young is best served in this side moving forward. I can't agree at all with the thinking towards this match though.

If we want to actually beat the highest level of opposition, a containment strategy against against a top team like the Panthers won't work very well - they're too well rounded. Nulify Kikau and they've simply got half a dozen other threats to come at us with. That's the difference between them and the likes of the Titans, where if you contain Fifita you go half way to winning. This team would still be sweet without Kikau playing - he's icing on the cake, as opposed to the cake itself.

We have to try and not only match their level, but go above it. The only way we can do that IMO is to take it to them, instead of trying to hold them off and working to drag them down to our level. That to me has to include playing the likes of CHN, who's an attack minded second rower and the guy we recruited to play in the starting 13 to replace Bateman. He gives us strong lines on the right that we don't have, and can help to get that right side into the game that was catching a cold on Saturday.

If we go out there looking just to stop them rather than impose ourselves, I give us little to no chance of winning. They're too good for that.
Yeah I get that sort of mentality and it may be the correct one
For me, kikau ruined the game last start within the first 25 minutes
if I’m the coach my first goal is to ensure that doesn’t happen again
Young handled Fifita well, he handled Luciano well. I think he’s our best bet to say “not again”
If we can keep Kikau quiet, I think that’s the best way to widen our margins

But I think your approach to it is perfectly valid too.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

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Canberra Raiders and Penrith Panthers battle to crown 'the best pack' in the NRL





Canberra forward Elliott Whitehead has declared the Raiders boast "the best pack in the whole league".

"It's always nice to come up against good opposition. Their pack is one of the best packs in the league. Fisher-Harris has been amazing all year. He just picked up where he left off last year. We'll be looking to stop a player like him, and Kikau as well. It's going to be a tough job but I believe the pack we've got here can match them."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

Bailey Simonsson backs Canberra Raiders strike weapons to break Penrith Panthers



Bailey Simonsson says the Canberra Raiders have the strike weapons to shatter the NRL's toughest defence in a battle between two premiership contenders this week.

"We back ourselves, if we turn up and play our best footy, we've got a team to beat anyone," Simonsson said.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

The relationships that bind the Green Machine: https://the-riotact.com/the-relationshi ... _source=ra
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by BadnMean »

Canberra Milk wrote: April 5, 2021, 1:35 pm Interestingly, it's our first half defence that got us in trouble vs Panthers and Storm. For all the talk about our attack (rightly imo), it was the defence that capitulated

Will be v v interesting game
Defence that was unable to withstand vs an attack that was stronger than ours by every measure that counts on both those occasions... so 2 teams with good D but only 1 of those had a real strike threat on both occasions and they executed well enough to make it count. Grind only works if the game pans out that way. If it opens up, we are dead ducks vs those guys.

My point on this repeatedly has been that our grinding style and lack of killer punch leaves every team in the game with that. That's fine we outgrind or out talent 90% of teams in the comp but we only have 1 route to win vs the very best teams (grind outstandingly), wherears they all have the weapons to blow us away for 20 mins if opportunity presents, OR to grind with us and see how it shakes out.

So we CAN beat the top teams but since they have more avenues open to beat us, it's a real hard slog and we need all the breaks for it to come good. Our chances of getting the breaks vs Roosters or Pamfers in a premiership run... Not good. I'd like to see us sort our attack.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Botman »

Edit: actually we dont need to do this whole thing again
Last edited by Botman on April 5, 2021, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 5, 2021, 5:40 pm I'm genuinely interested in what you're looking for in Young's line running in that position.

I get that CHN offers ball playing that Young doesn't, but I'm interested in the other aspects of his game.
I want to see him break the line/challenge opposition edges, create space as a hole runner/block runner and ball play as a forward running off the half. Beacuse if any of that has happened (and i cant recall any specific plays you could point to) it's been a fleeting one off play

I get the benefits of having a shut down defensive player out there. I really do. But Hudson Young is too talented with the football to waste it as a defensive specialist edge.
Last edited by Botman on April 5, 2021, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

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Botman wrote: April 5, 2021, 6:25 pm Edit: actually we dont need to do this whole thing again
Dude come on that post explained it VERY well :lol:
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Botman »

afgtnk wrote: April 5, 2021, 6:39 pm
Botman wrote: April 5, 2021, 6:25 pm Edit: actually we dont need to do this whole thing again
Dude come on that post explained it VERY well :lol:
Haha i just DONT want to get back into this whole big debate about it. It's been done
If Seiffert wants the entire full big post, i did save it as a draft so ill post it but i dont know if anyone needs us to go back into this Middle/Edge thing again. Because no one is changing their minds
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by greeneyed »

greeneyed wrote: April 5, 2021, 6:14 pm

That's an interesting report to read... in conjunction with the QLC annual report: https://www.qlc.com.au/site/files/ul/da ... 966672.pdf

A fairly intricate interrelationship between the various companies and licensed clubs. Bit difficult to disentangle but the ultimate controlling entity of the football club is the Queanbeyan Blues.

Also interesting that the QLC has rebadged with the Raiders logo: https://www.qlc.com.au/
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by afgtnk »

I think a short clip of Whitehead breaking the line off Gorgeous George on Saturday would give a pretty good explanation tbh.

The shape is setup like usual on the left. Just before George has the ball and 10 metres away from the D line, Elliot takes a very subtle glance at the their line. As soon as George gets the ball, he explodes and changes the angle of the run, manipulating the space he sees so that he receives the ball in between the two defenders.

Some may argue that it was one of the few times that we've managed to pull it off for that reward, but Elliott is doing that constantly throughout a game.

Edit: seeing similar things in Seb Kris too. Notice how often he manages to get between players, rather than front on with them.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

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Botman wrote: April 5, 2021, 6:35 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: April 5, 2021, 5:40 pm I'm genuinely interested in what you're looking for in Young's line running in that position.

I get that CHN offers ball playing that Young doesn't, but I'm interested in the other aspects of his game.
I want to see him break the line/challenge opposition edges, create space as a hole runner/block runner and ball play as a forward running off the half. Beacuse if any of that has happened (and i cant recall any specific plays you could point to) it's been a fleeting one off play

I get the benefits of having a shut down defensive player out there. I really do. But Hudson Young is too talented with the football to waste it as a defensive specialist edge.
Fair enough. I think he does a good job of pressuring the opposition halves, but I hear what you are saying. His style is pretty straightforward.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by kiwi raider »

hudson has played 3 games this year. All on the edge

Round 1 3 dally m points
Round 2 MOM mainly by isolating and dominating the opposition half(i think thats chapter 1 in the second rowers handbook)
Round 4 shut down the biggest threat of an edge player in the comp (maybe tied with Kikau)

The guys going pretty good imo. Plus we have a million middles and CHN hasnt really set the world on fire.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

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I ask this very earnestly, Kiwi
Can you give me your top 5 attacking moments for Hudson Young as a edge back rower running off his half?
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by kiwi raider »

Botman wrote: April 5, 2021, 7:25 pm I ask this very earnestly, Kiwi
Can you give me your top 5 attacking moments for Hudson Young as a edge back rower running off his half?
I would argue thats more down to the service hes getting. Remembering john Bateman(best second rower in the world) regularly failed to have any sort of impact on games last year.

If young can run a beautiful outside in line off hodgson theres no reason he cant do it out wider if the set up is correct,
And thats not completely on G Willy. Our whole set up to attack the right is very average. But hey its round 4 and theres plenty of time for that to improve.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by GreenMachine »

I’ll tell you what i think is interesting.. the notion we NEED to be a grinding team in order to play defensive.

Roosters, Melbourne and Penrith all play outstanding defence yet their attack is superb. You could even throw Souths in that group.

I’d love to see us offer some variation where Tapine and Young possibly swap in attack occasionally so that the opposition is having to deal with a different problem when defending against us.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Botman »

kiwi raider wrote: April 5, 2021, 7:44 pm
Botman wrote: April 5, 2021, 7:25 pm I ask this very earnestly, Kiwi
Can you give me your top 5 attacking moments for Hudson Young as a edge back rower running off his half?
I would argue thats more down to the service hes getting. Remembering john Bateman(best second rower in the world) regularly failed to have any sort of impact on games last year.

If young can run a beautiful outside in line off hodgson theres no reason he cant do it out wider if the set up is correct,
And thats not completely on G Willy. Our whole set up to attack the right is very average. But hey its round 4 and theres plenty of time for that to improve.
That's where i have to part ways
It's totally different. You're trying to beat different calibre of athletes out wide.

His service isnt great sure, but Whitehead looks fine, his service isnt any better.
Kris was threatening on the edges as a 2nd row and centre with that service. Even Curtis Scott has made some made some hey out wide and created some chances. Young really hasnd to

I agree there is time to improve and he's got a lot of growth left in him, but you're saying he's going great, and that he isolated and dominated an opposition half in round 2 and dominated him. But you dont have any plays that show case what Hudson Young brings as a ball carrier on the edge?
(full transparency, i actually LOL'd at that description for a game we scored 2 tries in, one of them being him taking a hit up one off the ruck like a middle)
Sub optimal, especially when i can easily come up with 5 examples of him as a middle player THIS year that show case what he is in that role.

The simple reality here is he has not shown much as a ball carrier on the edge. I dont know how any can dispute that.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Botman »

This is why i didnt post the big post! we're just going around in the circle again.

As i said earlier in this thread, Young is our best answer for Kikau, so for this week im 100% on board with his position. Long term, nothing has changed and his play this year has strengthened my view on his best position. I say it again, this guy is too damn good to be wasted as a defensive specialist
That's the last i'll say on it

For this week, all i want from him is to stop Kikau from dominating this game. Which is certainly no easy feat. He did a job on Fifita, but these Panther halves are going to ask more questions of him than the Titans halves did.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

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Young reminds me a lot of Paul Gallen, actually (without the trying to play like a half part).

Big, strong shoulders and upper body. Very physical and direct, little subtlety or nuance about his game. Plenty of niggle and dumb penalties. High workload, plays above his weight. Gallen too played quite a bit of second row early, until it became firm that he belonged only in the middle with his type of play.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

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GreenMachine wrote: April 5, 2021, 7:49 pm I’ll tell you what i think is interesting.. the notion we NEED to be a grinding team in order to play defensive.

Roosters, Melbourne and Penrith all play outstanding defence yet their attack is superb. You could even throw Souths in that group.

I’d love to see us offer some variation where Tapine and Young possibly swap in attack occasionally so that the opposition is having to deal with a different problem when defending against us.
Good point. People often make out as if being attacking and defensive are mutually exclusive, but they're not. The Storm and the Panthers are the best examples of this.

The clearer transitions between attacking and defensive phases in League, which goes hand in hand with the limited contest for the ball as opposed to say Football/Soccer, will never see them be mutually exclusive.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by zim »

afgtnk wrote: April 5, 2021, 8:09 pm Young reminds me a lot of Paul Gallen, actually (without the trying to play like a half part).

Big, strong shoulders and upper body. Very physical and direct, little subtlety or nuance about his game. Plenty of niggle and dumb penalties. High workload, plays above his weight. Gallen too played quite a bit of second row early, until it became firm that he belonged only in the middle with his type of play.
I said he was our Paul Gallen last year so I'm on the middle side of the debate too.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Finchy »

Whilst I think Hudson can be an adequate "fill-in" playing on the edge, not only do I think he's better suited in the middle, I think he's better coming off the bench. IMO he played his best footy last year when he'd be fresh off the bench in the second half playing in the middle, and absolutely terrorise tired opposition forwards, resulting in numerous line breaks, try assists, and tries. I see him as a great impact player off the bench, similar to Sutton. Brings lots of energy when the opposition are tired. I think leaving him out on the field all game on an edge wastes a lot of his talent, tires him out in defence, and he succumbs to giving away to dumb niggly penalties.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Northern Raider »

zim wrote: April 5, 2021, 9:19 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 5, 2021, 8:09 pm Young reminds me a lot of Paul Gallen, actually (without the trying to play like a half part).

Big, strong shoulders and upper body. Very physical and direct, little subtlety or nuance about his game. Plenty of niggle and dumb penalties. High workload, plays above his weight. Gallen too played quite a bit of second row early, until it became firm that he belonged only in the middle with his type of play.
I said he was our Paul Gallen last year so I'm on the middle side of the debate too.
All we need from him is a 4th tackle hit up when the halves are screaming for the ball. The Gallen comparison will then be complete.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by zim »

Just as long as he doesn't sign up to Bovine University.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by pickles »

Northern Raider wrote: April 6, 2021, 12:50 pm
zim wrote: April 5, 2021, 9:19 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 5, 2021, 8:09 pm Young reminds me a lot of Paul Gallen, actually (without the trying to play like a half part).

Big, strong shoulders and upper body. Very physical and direct, little subtlety or nuance about his game. Plenty of niggle and dumb penalties. High workload, plays above his weight. Gallen too played quite a bit of second row early, until it became firm that he belonged only in the middle with his type of play.
I said he was our Paul Gallen last year so I'm on the middle side of the debate too.
All we need from him is a 4th tackle hit up when the halves are screaming for the ball. The Gallen comparison will then be complete.
And a metric butt load of PEDs!
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by The Nickman »

I expect we'll see the same 17 named as last week, but Guler will end up coming in for Lui later in the week.

Not sure where Scott and Tapine are in their recovery as yet though, they'll either be in the top 21 or named to start and reassessed.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Botman »

Tapine being available would be a big in
But i dont think this is the time to rush him
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Boomercm »

kiwi raider wrote: April 5, 2021, 7:15 pm hudson has played 3 games this year. All on the edge

Round 1 3 dally m points
Round 2 MOM mainly by isolating and dominating the opposition half(i think thats chapter 1 in the second rowers handbook)
Round 4 shut down the biggest threat of an edge player in the comp (maybe tied with Kikau)

The guys going pretty good imo. Plus we have a million middles and CHN hasnt really set the world on fire.
Young has also scored 2 tries. One of those running a great line inside shoulder of Moylan (off Hodgson). The other backing up. Reality is that we set up for left sided plays, so there is just more space when we go left. When we go right its often a short side - so hole running is more difficult.

I find the CHN love very odd. He's ok. A good back up and maybe makes our bench. IMO Young is already better than he ever was.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by zim »

We've got the eels next week as well.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Boomercm »

I think we can attack Penrith through the middle in 2 specific places. Leota makes 11 or 12 tackles per week as a prop. Run straight at him. Eisenhuth is also a weak link. He can be dominated, especially in effort on effort situations.
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Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by greeneyed »

2020 Rd 5 NRL teams: Raiders V Panthers

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Canberra Raiders V Penrith Panthers
Friday 9 April 7:55pm
Panthers Stadium
Tickets: Click here
TV coverage: Fox League Channel 502, Nine
Radio: ABC, Mix 106.3, 2CC

The Canberra Raiders have named their squad for Friday night's match against the Penrith Panthers at BlueBet Stadium. Joe Tapine returns to the 17 this week at lock, which sees Ryan Sutton shift to the front row and Dunamis Lui moved to the extended bench. Curtis Scott will miss at least another match with a rib injury, with Seb Kris remaining at centre. Sam Williams, Semi Valemei and Corey Harawira-Naera join Lui on the extended bench.

Canberra Raiders media

Canberra Raiders

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Bailey Simonsson
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Sebastian Kris
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Ryan Sutton
11. Hudson Young
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Tom Starling
15. Siliva Havili
16. Sia Soliola
17. Ryan James

18. Sam Williams
19. Semi Valemei
20. Dunamis Lui
21. Corey Harawira-Naera

Injury/Suspension
Curtis Scott, Ribs, (Rd 6)
Harley Smith-Shields, Biceps tendon (Rd 20-22)

Penrith Panthers

1. Stephen Crichton
2. Charlie Staines
3. Paul Momirovski
4. Matt Burton
5. Brian To'o
6. Jarome Luai
7. Nathan Cleary (c)
8. Moses Leota
9. Mitch Kenny
10. James Fisher-Harris
11. Viliame Kikau
12. Kurt Capewell
13. Isaah Yeo (c)

14. Tyrone May
15. Spencer Leniu
16. Matt Eienhuth
17. Liam Martin

18. Scott Sorensen
19. Robert Jennings
20. J'maine Hopgood
21. Jaeman Salmon

Injury/Suspension

Dylan Edwards, Hand (Rd 8)
Api Koroisau, Wrist (Rd 8-10)

Officials

Referee: Gerard Sutton
Touch judges: Todd Smith, Phil Henderson
Video referee: Steve Chiddy

NRL teams: Click here
NSW Cup teams: Click here
Junior Representatives teams: Click here

Match Hashtags: #NRL #WeareRaiders #NRLPanthersRaiders

The Greenhouse Hashtags: #WearGreen2021 #FromAllAngles

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Plus follow us on Twitter: @TheGHRaiders and Instagram: @TheGHRaiders
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pickles
Jason Croker
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Joined: November 18, 2007, 2:04 pm
Location: Callala Bay

Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by pickles »

Panthers are flying at the moment and will be very tough to beat. Not a bad thing to be going into a game like this as underdogs at this point in the season.

I think we can match them from a defensive perspective but their attack has been looking much sharper. That said, Wighton is due for a good game and at his best can be the difference between 2 teams.

This will certainly give us an idea of where we are at in terms of the form teams in the comp and what we need to work on. Not that we don't already know that it is our cohesion in attack and our kicking game!
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Raiders_Pat
Chris O'Sullivan
Posts: 900
Joined: July 24, 2016, 8:11 am
Favourite Player: Josh Papalii

Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by Raiders_Pat »

1. Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Simonsson
3. Croker
4. Kris
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. James
11. Young
12. Whitehead
13. Sutton

14. Harawira-Naera
15. Havili
16. Lui
17. Guler

I have no clue where Tapine and Scott are at with their injuries but I wouldn't be rushing them back in for this game if they aren't ready to go. If we start strong and complete our sets I think we will get the job done.
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afgtnk
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8789
Joined: April 7, 2007, 1:45 am

Re: 2020 Rd 5 V Panthers: Teams and Previews

Post by afgtnk »

pickles wrote: April 6, 2021, 3:17 pm Panthers are flying at the moment and will be very tough to beat. Not a bad thing to be going into a game like this as underdogs at this point in the season.

I think we can match them from a defensive perspective but their attack has been looking much sharper. That said, Wighton is due for a good game and at his best can be the difference between 2 teams.

This will certainly give us an idea of where we are at in terms of the form teams in the comp and what we need to work on. Not that we don't already know that it is our cohesion in attack and our kicking game!
It's still only early in the season, but if Jack gives us another month like his first, I'm gonna be slightly concerned. I don't think he's been anywhere near good enough.

When you're supposedly one of the best players in the game and our highest paid one, the least you need to be doing is having a handful moments throughout the game where you're leaving your mark clearly. Not seeing it.
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