2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
5
36%
Raiders 1-12
7
50%
Draw
0
No votes
Titans 1-12
0
No votes
Titans 13+
2
14%
 
Total votes: 14

RedRaider
Bradley Clyde
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

I didn't get to watch the game, but listened to the last 20minutes of the ABC radio broadcast. They were talking about the improvement in the Raiders ball control in the second half and the defending of back to back sets. They were ok with the penalty against Rapana so I'll go with that. More important is the 2 competition points on offer in the game and we got them.

The Raiders defensive line will get a lot more thrown at them next week. Penrith have so many options with their left side particularly in outstanding form at present. But they are strong everywhere.
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simo
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by simo »

Mickey_Raider wrote: April 3, 2021, 10:06 pm We are clearly a top 6 side. As we were last year; and the year before.

The question is whether we can take the step up and win it all.

On available evidence I don’t think we can beat the Storm, Panthers and Souths when the whips are cracking.

We must improve.

Do we have it in us? I think we can.

But I do think it is disingenuous to try and portray those whom are somewhat critical of what we are showing as being unjustifiably negative.

Yes, it is obviously better than the dross we had to endure for the most part of 2001-2014. But we are surely smack bang in the middle of a premiership window. At some point we need to ascend to a higher level.
Aww im sorry people dont like the sooking and carrying on in the game day thread. In rd 4. After a comfortable win where we never went behind on the scoreboard. The week after putting in for an undermanned performance.
I really do enjoy your use of the first 4 rounds of the season as enough to go by that we wont compete at finals time, 22 weeks away. Please continue
Dont delete this GE
moto748
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by moto748 »

As usual I find 15 pages of comment by the time I see the game! I thought the Raiders bounced back well from the disappointment of last week. I thought George looked a lot more assured, and Ryan Sutton was very good again. Two terrific try-saving tackles that prevented transforming the scoreline. Wighton looked a bit out of sorts, and his long kicking was less effective than usual. But I agree that you'll need a lot more than brute force to get past Penrith.
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simo
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by simo »

Botman wrote: April 4, 2021, 6:42 am Really thought that was a professional, clean win
Again the attack wasn’t quite where you want it to be but I don’t really want our attack peaking in round 4 either

That Titans team are a decent footy team who make you earn it
My biggest take away was that hudson youngs edge can hold up under the pressure of one of the best ball runners in the comp. titans arent a good team unit yet but id say all their players are putting in good performances and our team handled them quite comfortably. Next week we come up against a good team so our defence will be tested differently which is perfect for this time in the season
Dont delete this GE
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BadnMean
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

KingDynamite wrote: April 3, 2021, 9:32 pm I thought our kick pressure was the best it’s been for a long time tonight. More of that please
It's usually just Hodgo, but I noticed James getting in on the act too. Have to watch the replay to look out for who else.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Good win, great defence. Shout out to CNK as he still someone that gets criticism on this forum, he had a great game.

I think our right hand side defence with Kris and Simmo are good, barring one Fifita offload at the end of the first half. I'm more worried about Croker's defence and obvious lack of pace. In attack, I've also noticed Croker doesn't jump to contest the ball. I know this forum won't like me saying it, but I think he's the third best centre at the club based on what I've seen in the first few rounds.

We won't go around Penrith - remember what happened last year and also the Storm game when Kikau came up with the try saver. Going through them is the key. Also great balls from GWilliams like tonight to Whitehead. Wighton needs to improve kicking game so we force dropouts or try to score from kicks. That's what Cleary does well.

Need to use Starling more. Havili, although he had a good game, is giving too many six agains. Dunamis' early season form isn't good like last year- we should look at Guler or Horse against Penrith. Hope Tapine is back as well.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Pete Cash »

Normally I can understand the attacks we are too grindy or whatever but last night's game we had less ball than the titans (47-53), made less metres, were in the attacking 20 less

We didn't make that game hard by grinding but by dropping the ball all the time in the first half. We are lucky the titans were off in that regard when they fell behind

But the fact of the matter is that we led from start to finish and never felt in danger. There are games where we are camped in the opposition 20m and look lost but was this one of those games??

I would point to things like ball control and kicking before criticising our attack in general. Kicking needs work we can't give Penrith momentum every set. Our attacking kicks end up in no man's land way too often. They seem to fall short of where we would like by 5-10m or they are too deep.
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BadnMean
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

radicalraider wrote: April 3, 2021, 9:39 pm Areas to improve vs penrith:
1. Kicking game
2. Edge defense
3. Creativity inside 20m
Generally we kick well, especially since G Willy arrived and Wighton went to the next level. I'm reasonably our kicking will improve. But Penrith's halves are often absolutely top drawer kickers. I agree that's a big point, we'll need to match them there, it's a major way they get on top of teams.

Edge defence I think we are getting there. It was a pretty good defensive display yesterday overall imo. CNK may have saved our blushes a couple of times but he's a great defensive FB, that's what he offers.

Creativity inside the 20m... It's a perennial issue. We are a genuinely clumsy side inside there. We have Hodgo throwing a crash ball or Wighton running. We should probably be making more out of William's kicking game or Whiteheads skill level in there.
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hobbsy
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by hobbsy »

We are gonna win the comp I don't care what anyone says. Defence wins premierships just look at Storm vs Panthers last week, and that part of our game is on. We are gonna be so good when everything clicks
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

One of the more interesting things out of that game for mine was the number of touches that Williams had compared to Wighton. In the last couple of weeks they have been getting about 40 touches each, but this week was much more like round 1, with Williams getting the ball 50 odd times and Wighton 30. It's even better when Jack is getting the ball 2 off the ruck from Williams.

I think that balance is good. When Williams dominates the ball from our defensive 40 to the attacking 20 we look a lot more controlled.

Jack's form has not been great this season. I think he is attempting the killer play too many times. He had 3 terrible kicks and 2 really bad passes in his 30 touches this week. Not great. His defence was outstanding. It's hard though - I want him to produce quality over quantity but he has to be on point.

Anyway, nice to get a comfortable win over a top 8 contender in good form. Our forwards really rolled over the top of them after 60 mins.
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

I'm really enjoying the set restart lucky dip too.

It's quite exciting having no idea why a 6 again is called in one tackle and not another. I absolutely love the random nature and complete inconsistency of the way that rule operates, with almost zero scrutiny.
Last edited by Seiffert82 on April 4, 2021, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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simo
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by simo »

I thought the ref was great
Dont delete this GE
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BadnMean
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:33 am I'm really enjoying the set restart lucky dip too.

It's quite exciting having no idea why a 6 again is called in one tackle and not another. I absolutely love the random nature and complete inconsistency of the way that rule operates, with almost zero scrutiny.
It's like a carnival game-it's run by some dodgy bloke in a bad outfit, there's lights and bells, he's shouting and waving and you get the feeling it's rigged but there's too much colour and movement to pinpoint why.
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Mickey_Raider
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Mickey_Raider »

simo wrote: April 4, 2021, 7:39 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: April 3, 2021, 10:06 pm We are clearly a top 6 side. As we were last year; and the year before.

The question is whether we can take the step up and win it all.

On available evidence I don’t think we can beat the Storm, Panthers and Souths when the whips are cracking.

We must improve.

Do we have it in us? I think we can.

But I do think it is disingenuous to try and portray those whom are somewhat critical of what we are showing as being unjustifiably negative.

Yes, it is obviously better than the dross we had to endure for the most part of 2001-2014. But we are surely smack bang in the middle of a premiership window. At some point we need to ascend to a higher level.
Aww im sorry people dont like the sooking and carrying on in the game day thread. In rd 4. After a comfortable win where we never went behind on the scoreboard. The week after putting in for an undermanned performance.
I really do enjoy your use of the first 4 rounds of the season as enough to go by that we wont compete at finals time, 22 weeks away. Please continue
Strange call to get stuck into that post.

All I am essentially saying is that we are a good side but we will need to improve to beat the likes of Penrith. I clearly also said that I do think we have the improvement in us.

Last year we spent the whole year beating most teams with sometimes clunky and unpolished performances. Ultimately we were blown away by last years grand finalists in similar fashion who blitzed us with superior attacking game.

We will need to improve in attack to win the title. Pretty uncontroversial take I thought.
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reptar
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by reptar »

raiderskater wrote:Ryan James is reminding me of adopting a cat.

You don't adopt a cat. Cats adopt you.

We didn't adopt Ryan James. He adopted us. :lol:
Perfect description. Frank loves Ryan James.
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John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by reptar »

Lui_Bon wrote:
raiderskater wrote: April 3, 2021, 9:25 pm Ryan James is reminding me of adopting a cat.

You don't adopt a cat. Cats adopt you.

We didn't adopt Ryan James. He adopted us. :lol:
Haha I like that. I bet Frank does too.
He does indeed!!
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

BadnMean wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:38 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:33 am I'm really enjoying the set restart lucky dip too.

It's quite exciting having no idea why a 6 again is called in one tackle and not another. I absolutely love the random nature and complete inconsistency of the way that rule operates, with almost zero scrutiny.
It's like a carnival game-it's run by some dodgy bloke in a bad outfit, there's lights and bells, he's shouting and waving and you get the feeling it's rigged but there's too much colour and movement to pinpoint why.
Yeah, it's across all games for all teams.

I think some teams are really struggling with it, more than others.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

Mickey_Raider wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:46 am
Strange call to get stuck into that post.

All I am essentially saying is that we are a good side but we will need to improve to beat the likes of Penrith. I clearly also said that I do think we have the improvement in us.

Last year we spent the whole year beating most teams with sometimes clunky and unpolished performances. Ultimately we were blown away by last years grand finalists in similar fashion who blitzed us with superior attacking game.

We will need to improve in attack to win the title. Pretty uncontroversial take I thought.
I agree actually. When Sydney, Melbourne or Souths force an opening, they finish extremely well. We honestly don't show that level of threat, either from long range with speed or within the 20 with slick set plays. We have other strengths but if a game opens up at any stage, we risk getting outgunned.
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RTW
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by RTW »

History shows time and time again that the best defensive teams win the competition. We have proven that we can defend (with exception the second half v the Warriors for obvious reasons).In both last nights game and the sharks game we repeatedly turned teams away on our goal line.

Year after year the Storm rely on banking points early in the season. They aren’t pretty but somehow get the two points they can then referral the squad late in the season when needed. This appears to be the model we are following.

I can see the Panthers winning next week through superior attack however once finals roll around I would rather bet on a superior defensive team which appears to be the route Stuart is taking.

Note: The Panthers are a damn good defensive team as well which probably counters my argument


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Seiffert82
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yep, our fundamentals across the entire park are up there with the best in the comp. We don't blow teams off the park with one or two freak players or with crazy speed cashing in on opposition errors. We frustrate and grind the opposition out of their natural game.

I'd rather that than having our games be a complete crapshoot.

Penrith is the only team that really worries me, and it's mostly their kicking game.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by radicalraider »

BadnMean wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:07 am
radicalraider wrote: April 3, 2021, 9:39 pm Areas to improve vs penrith:
1. Kicking game
2. Edge defense
3. Creativity inside 20m
Generally we kick well, especially since G Willy arrived and Wighton went to the next level. I'm reasonably our kicking will improve. But Penrith's halves are often absolutely top drawer kickers. I agree that's a big point, we'll need to match them there, it's a major way they get on top of teams.

Edge defence I think we are getting there. It was a pretty good defensive display yesterday overall imo. CNK may have saved our blushes a couple of times but he's a great defensive FB, that's what he offers.

Creativity inside the 20m... It's a perennial issue. We are a genuinely clumsy side inside there. We have Hodgo throwing a crash ball or Wighton running. We should probably be making more out of William's kicking game or Whiteheads skill level in there.
Agree, Williams needs to utilise his short kicking game to get us some repeat seats and even in behind early in the tackle count for toots to chase. I'm sure Ricky is aware we need our attack to click to beat Penrith as their execution is always on.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by julian87 »

Elcaptcroker wrote: April 3, 2021, 10:45 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote:We are clearly a top 6 side. As we were last year; and the year before.

The question is whether we can take the step up and win it all.

On available evidence I don’t think we can beat the Storm, Panthers and Souths when the whips are cracking.

We must improve.

Do we have it in us? I think we can.

But I do think it is disingenuous to try and portray those whom are somewhat critical of what we are showing as being unjustifiably negative.

Yes, it is obviously better than the dross we had to endure for the most part of 2001-2014. But we are surely smack bang in the middle of a premiership window. At some point we need to ascend to a higher level.
You cant be serious about souths? Their mid level, storm pulled their pants down in round 1, they only scored 26 points against manly which even the dragons put more points on them, they beat a roosters team that lost half their players including the key playmaker, and beat a bulldogs team who in previous years after their start should be odds on to win the spoon (but this year they have manly and cowboys to compete with) souths have the players but putting them at the top is a big call


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I don’t rate their middle third forwards besides Murray and Tatola that highly. I think we have them comfortably covered there.

But rubbish a team with Walker, Reynolds, Cook and Mitchell at your peril.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:33 am I'm really enjoying the set restart lucky dip too.

It's quite exciting having no idea why a 6 again is called in one tackle and not another. I absolutely love the random nature and complete inconsistency of the way that rule operates, with almost zero scrutiny.
I'm sharing your wonder of it all!
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-TW-
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

greeneyed wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:33 am I'm really enjoying the set restart lucky dip too.

It's quite exciting having no idea why a 6 again is called in one tackle and not another. I absolutely love the random nature and complete inconsistency of the way that rule operates, with almost zero scrutiny.
I'm sharing your wonder of it all!
I loved the one on tackle 0 when they broke early.

There is literally 0 punishment there

Penalty or don't **** bother

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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

julian87 wrote: April 4, 2021, 9:45 am
Elcaptcroker wrote: April 3, 2021, 10:45 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote:We are clearly a top 6 side. As we were last year; and the year before.

The question is whether we can take the step up and win it all.

On available evidence I don’t think we can beat the Storm, Panthers and Souths when the whips are cracking.

We must improve.

Do we have it in us? I think we can.

But I do think it is disingenuous to try and portray those whom are somewhat critical of what we are showing as being unjustifiably negative.

Yes, it is obviously better than the dross we had to endure for the most part of 2001-2014. But we are surely smack bang in the middle of a premiership window. At some point we need to ascend to a higher level.
You cant be serious about souths? Their mid level, storm pulled their pants down in round 1, they only scored 26 points against manly which even the dragons put more points on them, they beat a roosters team that lost half their players including the key playmaker, and beat a bulldogs team who in previous years after their start should be odds on to win the spoon (but this year they have manly and cowboys to compete with) souths have the players but putting them at the top is a big call


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I don’t rate their middle third forwards besides Murray and Tatola that highly. I think we have them comfortably covered there.

But rubbish a team with Walker, Reynolds, Cook and Mitchell at your peril.
You don't rate Arrow?
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by gergreg »

greeneyed wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:33 am I'm really enjoying the set restart lucky dip too.

It's quite exciting having no idea why a 6 again is called in one tackle and not another. I absolutely love the random nature and complete inconsistency of the way that rule operates, with almost zero scrutiny.
I'm sharing your wonder of it all!
Well obviously a 6 again which benefits our team is a correct decision and one that favours our opposition is truly baffling. The same people feeling this way had the same green goggles when it used to be a penalty instead.

Edit... does anybody care to challenge the 3 (?) or so that Hudson Young gave away? He was clearly pushing the limits and the referee punished him for it.

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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

gergreg wrote: April 4, 2021, 10:10 am
greeneyed wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: April 4, 2021, 8:33 am I'm really enjoying the set restart lucky dip too.

It's quite exciting having no idea why a 6 again is called in one tackle and not another. I absolutely love the random nature and complete inconsistency of the way that rule operates, with almost zero scrutiny.
I'm sharing your wonder of it all!
Well obviously a 6 again which benefits our team is a correct decision and one that favours our opposition is truly baffling. The same people feeling this way had the same green goggles when it used to be a penalty instead.

Edit... does anybody care to challenge the 3 (?) or so that Hudson Young gave away? He was clearly pushing the limits and the referee punished him for it.

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I think that's an unfair characterisation.

My concern is not with the number of set restarts that the Raiders concede, but with the inconsistency of referees. There are two sorts of inconsistencies: between referees from game to game, and within games.

Some referees call a lot of restarts, others do not. That has become a quite consistent pattern of inconsistency - indicating that there is not a shared understanding among the referees about what constitutes a set restart. It is unreasonable for teams to be "penalised" with a set restart in one game, when they are not in others.

The other inconsistency is within games. I had no issue with the set restarts called against the Raiders in the Warriors game, for example. What I had a problem with was that set restarts were not being called against the Warriors in very similar circumstances.

The referees and NRL love the set restarts as they escape scrutiny; they happen very quickly, and are rarely explained or analysed. The NRL won't even publish aggregate statistics for set restarts. They are clearly happy with the lack of transparency.

Hudson Young is "credited" with two set restarts conceded, of the five for the Raiders, according to NRL.com. Fox Sports Lab says the Raiders conceded six, so I guess it is possible NRL.com missed one.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by moto748 »

The thing about the kicking game is, George has never had a good long kicking game and I don't think he's going to develop one now, although on his day, his short-kicking game is up with the best. Wighton has a much bigger boot, and his long kicking can be very effective. I did get the sense today that whereas at first Williams and Wighton played split halves, increasingly now GW seems to take over in central midfield as well as the right, leaving Wighton a rather more peripheral person on the left.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by Wiki Special »

Botman wrote: April 4, 2021, 6:42 am Really thought that was a professional, clean win
Again the attack wasn’t quite where you want it to be but I don’t really want our attack peaking in round 4 either

That Titans team are a decent footy team who make you earn it
Agreed. Wighton has barely warmed up yet and we are 3 from 4. Big 4 weeks coming up.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by zim »

Wighton's close.
The missed 40/20 was a perfect set up. Just a couple of metres in it. He's just on the wrong side of trying too much at the moment.
Lucky we've got Williams completely composed on the other side.

After getting fed up with Simonson from the first 3 rounds he was far better this week.
That defense is top notch. Just needs to keep it simple.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by hobbsy »

I might be the only person in the world who thinks this but I feel like the set restarts are extremely predictable. I can tell when we are going to get one and when its going against us, seems blatant to me
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by raiderskater »

I thought it was a very good sign that in the post-match interview, one of the Fox-heads started praising Jack for his try-saver...and Jack immediately said, yeah, but they were only in that position because I screwed up. He's really grown up a lot.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by zim »

One thing I'd like to see him tweak is if he feels like he's not putting a stamp on the game he should look to do it through his running first.
It's just his natural strength. Feels like early this year vs last that's the main difference to me.
Run whitehead as the ball player or have CNK out the back to give him some space and just go yourself.
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by radicalraider »

Sunday footy show - Freddy concerned about our attack and halves not creating chances. Sterlo seeing our attack similar to storm when cam Smith would get his forwards over
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zim
Bradley Clyde
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Re: 2021 Rd 4 V Titans: Game Day

Post by zim »

Pretty handy to be scoring 93 points in 4 rounds with misfiring halves.
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