Jordan Rapana as left winger

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BadnMean
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by BadnMean »

gangrenous wrote: March 27, 2021, 6:10 pm
afgtnk wrote:He bombed two tries today actually. If you have a winger that can't run away to score from a huge head start, then I don't really see much point to them. We can talk about all the ways a winger's game has changed and the other attributes they bring, but if you aren't finishing, you aren't doing your job.

Agree that right wing will probably get a bit more out of him, but our backline is still dragging the chain too much in certain areas. If he still had decent speed in him he wouldn't have had to worry about which hand to go with - he would've got there regardless.
You get so tied up in one idea you can’t think about anything else.

Rapana was generally superb today, and set up two very good tries. The team should have been able to capitalise off the back of his 80m break too.
I actually agree with afgtenk here. In a generally slow back 5 we'd be getting more points out of a quicker player in this style of game.

We made six to one line breaks vs the Sharks and ended up with the same amount of tries. It is a genuine issue. It's not even long range tried we are talking here- it's the same bread and butter try he's missed 4 times from late last season until now and stiffed it every time. It's cost us more than 1 game.

Btw if his break was 80 he would have scored, he ran 20-30 even with the head start and others having to turn and got rounded up without ever looking like getting away. As I said I was all optimism after the trial but it was pretty dire speed-wise.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by BadnMean »

I'm amazed at the amount of people waning to hang on to a busted winger out of nostalgia.

Did Melbourne hang on to Vunivalu?

Penrith with Mansour?

Eels with Fergo?

hell no.

Morris is going gangbusters for the Roosters and proves himself one of the quickest wingers in the comp week after week. Reckon Roosters would hold a slug speed Morris? Even if he was a good bloke who took hard hit ups? Fact is EVERY winger has to take hard hit ups these days. It's their job. So is finishing bread and butter tries. So is (hopefully) being quick and offering some long range strike.

There comes a time to refresh a position.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Botman »

Ruben Daley wrote: March 27, 2021, 7:51 pm
gangrenous wrote: March 27, 2021, 7:16 pm Look I’m all for playing Rapana on the right. It’s the smart move in my opinion.

I’m just not going to sook about his speed to the line trying to score in a game where he slaughtered himself for 80 mins and was generally excellent and heavily involved in other tries that arguably don’t happen with your hypothetical left wing specialist.
100%.

There were moments in that game when Rapa was the only guy willing to take the hit-up.

He made ground and palmed off guys all game. He also did some pretty impressive things like setting up Elliott’s try.

He’s not fast any more and may be on the wrong side but he was one of our best today.
I agree too
Im not bagging the guy, he was good today. But the margins are razor thin, if we want to get the most out of him, put him on the side where his diminishing returns are somewhat mitigated. Also, Simo is probably our best speed option and putting him outside Croker is to me a better option too.

Anyway, its ok. Raps is who he is right now and it's a shadow of his former self, which is to say he's not the best winger in the world but now just an OK winger. Happens. Father time remains unbeaten. Left or right, he finishes that and wins us the game 10/10 times 4 years ago. We need to find genuine speed and finishing on the edges
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by gangrenous »

I usually agree with you BnM, but not today it seems.

Sure, Raiders generally have a speed deficiency. But it’s not the be all and end all. It is one facet of Rapana’s game, on a day when the rest shone and made that deficiency pretty well meaningless in the grand scheme of things. He was one of the best on the park.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by gangrenous »

BadnMean wrote: Btw if his break was 80 he would have scored, he ran 20-30 even with the head start and others having to turn and got rounded up without ever looking like getting away. As I said I was all optimism after the trial but it was pretty dire speed-wise.
Come on if you’re going to quibble, let’s not belittle by making up stuff.

Rapana ran himself from his 25 to their 30, where he offloads to CNK who takes it in that play to their 15.

So all up 60m gained of which Rapana himself carried 45m. That put the Raiders in spitting distance of the line with broken defence. It should be capitalised on without speed.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: March 27, 2021, 9:07 pm I usually agree with you BnM, but not today it seems.

Sure, Raiders generally have a speed deficiency. But it’s not the be all and end all. It is one facet of Rapana’s game, on a day when the rest shone and made that deficiency pretty well meaningless in the grand scheme of things. He was one of the best on the park.
lack of speed cost us 8 points, if not 12 the way Toots Jr was striking them
its an issue.
One we cant addresss.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by GreenMachine »

We all knew coming into this season our backline was our Achilles heel.
We lack pace in general across the whole backline...
Raps was superb today but he’s clearly playing on the wrong side...
He is a smart and talented footballer but genuine speed nails those two opportunities today.
That being there is no way I’m blaming the team today...circumstances were outrageous and not helped with the poor refereeing.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Ruben Daley »

Botman wrote: March 27, 2021, 9:00 pm
Ruben Daley wrote: March 27, 2021, 7:51 pm
gangrenous wrote: March 27, 2021, 7:16 pm Look I’m all for playing Rapana on the right. It’s the smart move in my opinion.

I’m just not going to sook about his speed to the line trying to score in a game where he slaughtered himself for 80 mins and was generally excellent and heavily involved in other tries that arguably don’t happen with your hypothetical left wing specialist.
100%.

There were moments in that game when Rapa was the only guy willing to take the hit-up.

He made ground and palmed off guys all game. He also did some pretty impressive things like setting up Elliott’s try.

He’s not fast any more and may be on the wrong side but he was one of our best today.
I agree too
Im not bagging the guy, he was good today. But the margins are razor thin, if we want to get the most out of him, put him on the side where his diminishing returns are somewhat mitigated. Also, Simo is probably our best speed option and putting him outside Croker is to me a better option too.

Anyway, its ok. Raps is who he is right now and it's a shadow of his former self, which is to say he's not the best winger in the world but now just an OK winger. Happens. Father time remains unbeaten. Left or right, he finishes that and wins us the game 10/10 times 4 years ago. We need to find genuine speed and finishing on the edges
Happy for him to change sides. It does feel odd to move him from the side he’s dominated on for years for no apparent reason.

I’d also love a bit of speed in the team and I think Ricky will bring it in over the next twelve months.

I just don’t think a younger, quicker player does some of the stuff Rapa did today.

I also think we rolled the Warriors even with three men out and Curtis playing busted for the period when we had gas without this speed. But the current game doesn’t allow teams to do that for such a long time.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by zim »

Rick wrote: March 27, 2021, 7:08 pm I’m more worried about Simonson. That’s a few times now he has just pancakes and thrown the ball for no reason. If it was not for the backline reshuffle next week due to Scott I would be seriously contemplating Hoppa.
This is it. I don't know if Hoppa is the solution but Simonsson has thrown out a few shockers over the 3 weeks. I was backing him until today. Just some really stupid stuff.
Rapana is creating chances but should be on the right. Even if you keep him on the left he's producing more than Simonsson.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Green Blogger »

For what it is worth, I think Semi Valemi is continuing to develop nicely in reserves. Of all the fringe first grade outside backs in reserves I think he has looked the best in two games.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Yup I'd have Rapa to the right and Semi on the left next week. Simmo hasn't nailed things down this year. Maybe because he's also on the wrong side.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

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Jordan is on a one year contract,on the lowest money he has earned,more than likely.
His best football was on the right,no mistake.
But to see him crucified for not having enough pace to dot the ball down in the 80th minute when he has been in the game up to his eyeballs and was running on fumes when a bloke like Wighton on 300% of his money isn’t under the same or more scrutiny is baffling.
Wingers are like running backs in the NFL,here today and gone tomorrow,only the smart ones survive when they lose a metre of pace.
Jordan is a pivotal part of the side.His reading of the game is like a halfbacks.
Yeah he takes the ugly carries and more than likely he pokes his nose through and gets a quick ptb.
Most of all he is playing each minute of each game like it could be his last.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by BadnMean »

Botman wrote: March 27, 2021, 9:34 pm
gangrenous wrote: March 27, 2021, 9:07 pm I usually agree with you BnM, but not today it seems.

Sure, Raiders generally have a speed deficiency. But it’s not the be all and end all. It is one facet of Rapana’s game, on a day when the rest shone and made that deficiency pretty well meaningless in the grand scheme of things. He was one of the best on the park.
lack of speed cost us 8 points, if not 12 the way Toots Jr was striking them
its an issue.
One we cant addresss.
When he's fit (HIA pending) Kris has to stay. Apparently he was the quickest bloke at pre-season...
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

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mick63 wrote: March 28, 2021, 7:58 am Jordan is on a one year contract,on the lowest money he has earned,more than likely.
His best football was on the right,no mistake.
But to see him crucified for not having enough pace to dot the ball down in the 80th minute when he has been in the game up to his eyeballs and was running on fumes when a bloke like Wighton on 300% of his money isn’t under the same or more scrutiny is baffling.
Wingers are like running backs in the NFL,here today and gone tomorrow,only the smart ones survive when they lose a metre of pace.
Jordan is a pivotal part of the side.His reading of the game is like a halfbacks.
Yeah he takes the ugly carries and more than likely he pokes his nose through and gets a quick ptb.
Most of all he is playing each minute of each game like it could be his last.
It's not crucifying him- it's frustration he's being played out of position and it's repeatedly costing us. It's not the first chance he's fluffed in the left corner. He's bombed a number of similar chances last year the same way. It's a pattern. The coach needs to shift him right or find a winger to finish.

Wingers emerge and flourish every year in the NRL. A half busted winger -loyal a servant, crafty guy and all round can of awesome that he is- isn't some irreplaceable diamond. Look what Kris has shown. Right now I'd play him anywhere just to get him on the park.

Rapana in his current format needs to be played where at least his finishing instincts are sharpest (on the right). Otherwise he's a busted flush at his main gig- scoring tries.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Botman »

BadnMean wrote: March 28, 2021, 8:22 am
Botman wrote: March 27, 2021, 9:34 pm
gangrenous wrote: March 27, 2021, 9:07 pm I usually agree with you BnM, but not today it seems.

Sure, Raiders generally have a speed deficiency. But it’s not the be all and end all. It is one facet of Rapana’s game, on a day when the rest shone and made that deficiency pretty well meaningless in the grand scheme of things. He was one of the best on the park.
lack of speed cost us 8 points, if not 12 the way Toots Jr was striking them
its an issue.
One we cant addresss.
When he's fit (HIA pending) Kris has to stay. Apparently he was the quickest bloke at pre-season...
The Scott injury is going to elevate the selection headache for Stuart on this one
So once he’s cleared the concussion protocols, he’ll be the direct Scott replacement
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by The Nickman »

He just shouldn’t be on the left. Anybody who knows what they’re talking about would agree. It’s mind blowing the coach is sticking with this positional mistake, when there’s no logical reason for it!
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Canberra Milk »

He's better than an ok winger. It's a moot point to discuss his speed if there's no one better to replace him, and there isn't

Cotric wasn't that fast either by the way. Blake Ferguson not as fast as he was. It's fine, not everyone can be Addo Carr
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by gangrenous »

I don’t think anyone is arguing he shouldn’t be on the right?

Seems the main conversation is how big a concern it is that he isn’t as fast. In my view his output in other areas is presently more than offsetting those losses.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

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Botman wrote: The Scott injury is going to elevate the selection headache for Stuart on this one
So once he’s cleared the concussion protocols, he’ll be the direct Scott replacement
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

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gangrenous wrote: March 28, 2021, 9:44 am
Botman wrote: The Scott injury is going to elevate the selection headache for Stuart on this one
So once he’s cleared the concussion protocols, he’ll be the direct Scott replacement
Alleviate
I said what I meant and meant what I said

It’s going to elevate his selection headache, it’s far more important now... :opps
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

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BadnMean wrote: March 28, 2021, 8:29 am
mick63 wrote: March 28, 2021, 7:58 am Jordan is on a one year contract,on the lowest money he has earned,more than likely.
His best football was on the right,no mistake.
But to see him crucified for not having enough pace to dot the ball down in the 80th minute when he has been in the game up to his eyeballs and was running on fumes when a bloke like Wighton on 300% of his money isn’t under the same or more scrutiny is baffling.
Wingers are like running backs in the NFL,here today and gone tomorrow,only the smart ones survive when they lose a metre of pace.
Jordan is a pivotal part of the side.His reading of the game is like a halfbacks.
Yeah he takes the ugly carries and more than likely he pokes his nose through and gets a quick ptb.
Most of all he is playing each minute of each game like it could be his last.
It's not crucifying him- it's frustration he's being played out of position and it's repeatedly costing us. It's not the first chance he's fluffed in the left corner. He's bombed a number of similar chances last year the same way. It's a pattern. The coach needs to shift him right or find a winger to finish.

Wingers emerge and flourish every year in the NRL. A half busted winger -loyal a servant, crafty guy and all round can of awesome that he is- isn't some irreplaceable diamond. Look what Kris has shown. Right now I'd play him anywhere just to get him on the park.

Rapana in his current format needs to be played where at least his finishing instincts are sharpest (on the right). Otherwise he's a busted flush at his main gig- scoring tries.
I don’t think anyone is disputing he would be better on the right.
But I don’t agree he is busted and a waste on the left.
Do you think,for arguments sake, that if that 80th minute opportunity was in the first minute, that he scores?
I reckon he does.
And if he is a bust what then about Croker?
He is supposed to be drawing and passing and setting up the flyer outside of him.
As it is it’s Rapana who conjures the breaks and the offloads that lead to the few breaks that are created.

Scoring tries for a winger make the highlight reel sure but that’s only a fraction of what they get paid for now.
And for now Ricky banks on him to give the set early momentum,to provide some stability and unity in defence what with Crokers penchant for spearing out of the line.
But there’s no way you can have Timoko/Simmonsen with almost no experience and Croker/Rapana with 400+ games of experience.
I hope Ricky shifts Jordan to the right to help Timoko or HSS or Kris and moves Simmonsen over,I would prefer to drop him altogether for Semi,but I don’t see Ricky sacking anyone after yesterday.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by BadnMean »

mick63 wrote: March 28, 2021, 10:43 am
I don’t think anyone is disputing he would be better on the right.
But I don’t agree he is busted and a waste on the left.
Do you think,for arguments sake, that if that 80th minute opportunity was in the first minute, that he scores?
I reckon he does.
And if he is a bust what then about Croker?
He is supposed to be drawing and passing and setting up the flyer outside of him.
As it is it’s Rapana who conjures the breaks and the offloads that lead to the few breaks that are created.

Scoring tries for a winger make the highlight reel sure but that’s only a fraction of what they get paid for now.
And for now Ricky banks on him to give the set early momentum,to provide some stability and unity in defence what with Crokers penchant for spearing out of the line.
But there’s no way you can have Timoko/Simmonsen with almost no experience and Croker/Rapana with 400+ games of experience.
I hope Ricky shifts Jordan to the right to help Timoko or HSS or Kris and moves Simmonsen over,I would prefer to drop him altogether for Semi,but I don’t see Ricky sacking anyone after yesterday.
Do you think,for arguments sake, that if that 80th minute opportunity was in the first minute, that he scores?
No I don't honestly. Like I said I've seen him fluff the finish on multiple tries in the left corner now, in similar ways. I think it's a weakness inherent in his play on the left.

I can't say much about Croker's play this year, I've barely seen him play. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole so I'll just say Croker is playing in his correct position and deserves the crack at an extended run to get back is 2019 form.

I know wingers have many roles to play- I just think it's wrong to think another player wouldn't have things to offer in that position.

For the record i've picked him in my side for next week, on the right.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

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gangrenous wrote:I don’t think anyone is arguing he shouldn’t be on the right?

Seems the main conversation is how big a concern it is that he isn’t as fast. In my view his output in other areas is presently more than offsetting those losses.
Who are you asking that question to? It’s literally the title of the thread

Just because you and afjgjgkfkltkgmg have hijacked the thread with your *check’s afgfhgjtkgkt’s notes* agenda driven muppetism, doesn’t change the whole vibe of the thing, old mate
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote:
gangrenous wrote: March 28, 2021, 9:44 am
Botman wrote: The Scott injury is going to elevate the selection headache for Stuart on this one
So once he’s cleared the concussion protocols, he’ll be the direct Scott replacement
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I said what I meant and meant what I said

It’s going to elevate his selection headache, it’s far more important now... :opps
And I ‘ate what he did on the rug... you ‘eard me!
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by yurithe1 »

zim wrote: March 28, 2021, 12:16 am
Rick wrote: March 27, 2021, 7:08 pm I’m more worried about Simonson. That’s a few times now he has just pancakes and thrown the ball for no reason. If it was not for the backline reshuffle next week due to Scott I would be seriously contemplating Hoppa.
This is it. I don't know if Hoppa is the solution but Simonsson has thrown out a few shockers over the 3 weeks. I was backing him until today. Just some really stupid stuff.
Rapana is creating chances but should be on the right. Even if you keep him on the left he's producing more than Simonsson.
Absolutely agree. Simonsson has made some bad mistakes over the past three rounds and I expected him to be cut in favour of Kris. Didn't happen and probably won't until Scott recovers.

People are bagging Rapana for lack of speed, but we haven't seen anything of Simonsson's reputed speed. Swapping the wingers around and having Croker setting up Simonsson might change that. It wouldn't be the first time Croker has brought wingers into the game, now that he's discovered "passing".

Anyway, we might see Semi get a start next week against the Titans, which probably means Rapana will start in the centres if I know Ricky.

Harley Smith-Shields, who would also have been up in contention, suffered what appears to be a ruptured biceps tendon in the Raiders NSW Cup loss to Mounties. He will be assessed this week to see if he requires surgery, but faces a lengthy stint on the sideline.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by julian87 »

I can't say I'm surprised but am still a bit puzzled as to why Bailey Simonsson is an automatic omission for a bloke who's closer to a second rower than a winger. I guess he's just the easiest target. He's made one silly error in 3 games IIRC not several as is being agreed upon in here.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Rick »

julian87 wrote:I can't say I'm surprised but am still a bit puzzled as to why Bailey Simonsson is an automatic omission for a bloke who's closer to a second rower than a winger. I guess he's just the easiest target. He's made one silly error in 3 games IIRC not several as is being agreed upon in here.
One error?


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Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by julian87 »

Rick wrote: March 28, 2021, 1:44 pm
julian87 wrote:I can't say I'm surprised but am still a bit puzzled as to why Bailey Simonsson is an automatic omission for a bloke who's closer to a second rower than a winger. I guess he's just the easiest target. He's made one silly error in 3 games IIRC not several as is being agreed upon in here.
One error?


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Nope. One silly error. Poor wording on my part. I mean one error due to poor judgement that's actually worth chastising.

I think he dropped the ball a couple of times in ordinary conditions last week too. But I don't think it's a problem or even something that consistently occurs.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by The Nickman »

I actually think he’s made one stinker of an error per game from memory, but fortunately the bunker overruled his last one.

Having said all that I’m firmly NOT in the “sack Simonsson” camp, I think he’s shown vast improvement from last time we’ve seen him and has a good upwards trajectory.

I swear our fans just always need a villain or something, someone to drop.
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RedRaider
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8176
Joined: March 3, 2007, 7:02 pm

Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by RedRaider »

I am on record as saying that Rapa is our best right winger ever. I still think that and so I think he should be on the right. He is taking one for the team by playing on the left and still putting in. He is always trying his hardest for the team as he did again yesterday. The lost ball over the line in the final seconds of the game should be applauded as the skill of RTS imo. It certainly should not be a mark against Rapa imo. The stats show that in 3 matches this year Rapa has made 46 runs. Only exceeded by CNK (60) and Ryan Sutton (47) for the Raiders.
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gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 12225
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by gangrenous »

The Nickman wrote:
gangrenous wrote:I don’t think anyone is arguing he shouldn’t be on the right?

Seems the main conversation is how big a concern it is that he isn’t as fast. In my view his output in other areas is presently more than offsetting those losses.
Who are you asking that question to? It’s literally the title of the thread

Just because you and afjgjgkfkltkgmg have hijacked the thread with your *check’s afgfhgjtkgkt’s notes* agenda driven muppetism, doesn’t change the whole vibe of the thing, old mate
I’m just pointing out that I don’t think anyone has come in yet and gone - “Rapana should play left you pack of loony right wing Trump lovers”

Sure it’s the title of the thread, but I don’t think there’s anything being debated on that front.
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zim
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8753
Joined: July 8, 2015, 3:38 pm
Favourite Player: Past: Brett Mullins
Present: Elliot Whitehead
Location: Sydney

Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by zim »

He's improved but this is not the situation we've had in the past where he has nothing below him or he has played 100 games in first grade. He probably gets a reprieve due to the number of injuries but he needs to relax and stop trying to play like he's Val Holmes.
His errors are coming about because he's always overreading a situation.
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Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 30140
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Botman »

I think Simo has improved greatly in the area that most concerned me
Which was his work out of our own end

I think with Scott out, Kris/Rapana and Croker/Simo would the best pairings
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
Bigcheese
Noa Nadruku
Posts: 157
Joined: June 24, 2012, 11:44 am
Favourite Player: The Volcano
Location: Gold Coast

Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Bigcheese »

Ricky is working on a long term right hand side combination with Curtis and Bailey.

Hot tip is that next year Rapana and Croker won’t be here and Ricky will have a fresh start on that side too.

Hang in there guys, especially you Nickman!
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Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
Posts: 27449
Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance
Location: Greener pastures

Re: Jordan Rapana as left winger

Post by Northern Raider »

Bigcheese wrote: March 28, 2021, 3:38 pm Ricky is working on a long term right hand side combination with Curtis and Bailey.

Hot tip is that next year Rapana and Croker won’t be here and Ricky will have a fresh start on that side too.

Hang in there guys, especially you Nickman!
Is this some inside mail or a personal opinion? :hmmm
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
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