Jarrod Croker
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Re: Jarrod Croker
I'm not a huge fan of putting centre's on big money anyway. I think it's arguably the least important position in the game.
I think we would look fine just sticking timoko in there on whatever his deal is and redistributing the money into other positions.
The storm have pretty rubbish centre's and they are doing fine
I think we would look fine just sticking timoko in there on whatever his deal is and redistributing the money into other positions.
The storm have pretty rubbish centre's and they are doing fine
Re: Jarrod Croker
Im curious about thisRickmando wrote: ↑April 18, 2021, 3:19 pmThose of you only coming to Jesus now are seeing what critics like me have been seeing for a number of years... that his overall (on field) performance does not justify his salary, his contract extension, or his selection in the side ahead of younger players with greater upside.
There is no coming to jesus moment here, where we're all suddenly had blind folds lifted. And we FINALLY see what you have seen for so long.
The fact many of us who have long been defending him and are now suggesting we need to figure out how to handle his situation shows that we are people happy to call it how we see it, good or bad... if he was playing this badly for years, we'd have been saying so as we are now.
If we were blindly loyal to the player and were not willing to entertain criticism, as we were often labelled, then why give up the fight now?
The reality here is he is not the player he was prior to 2020. His level of play has sharply declined. And how people view him as a player have changed accordingly. As NR said, because the level of play has finally declined to a level where the criticism is warranted doesnt suddenly retroactively validate the inaccurate criticisms of him from 2009-2019.
Re: Jarrod Croker
Agree with the assessment about 2020 onwards. That's where he's fallen off a cliff.
His issue seems to be 99% physical. Should we be surprised? This is a guy that has consistently played at the top level from 18 and now has a lot of mileage on him. He's not the biggest guy and certainly not built like an Adonis, and the increase in physicality the game has seen in just a decade is really staggering.
It happens to professional sportspeople right across the globe, and now Croker seems to be a victim.
His issue seems to be 99% physical. Should we be surprised? This is a guy that has consistently played at the top level from 18 and now has a lot of mileage on him. He's not the biggest guy and certainly not built like an Adonis, and the increase in physicality the game has seen in just a decade is really staggering.
It happens to professional sportspeople right across the globe, and now Croker seems to be a victim.
Re: Jarrod Croker
I was talking to a mate last night about it and i just think guys like Croker, they dont win with physicality or strength. They win with smart, sharp footwork, a little bit of speed and understanding angles and leverage
Croker consistently beat players across their face on the inside shoulder because whilst he wasnt strong, he had quick feet and understood innately when a player was overcommitted and has his inside shoulder exposed. And whilst he was never a burner, he was fast enough, and lost little speed when changing direction and that was good enough to beat his guy.
also the quick hands helped free his winger up for clear passages
the quick hands are still there but there isnt much timing or chemestry between him and Raps. But he's lost too much speed to win the way he has in his career and his footwork is noticably slower. When he changes direction, it's like his stuck in quicksand. It's left him very exposed, because where as before he was a reliable footballer who provided a good attacking spark, and had occasional nightmare defensive games... now he's a passanger in attack who's going to have occasional nightmare defensive games
Croker consistently beat players across their face on the inside shoulder because whilst he wasnt strong, he had quick feet and understood innately when a player was overcommitted and has his inside shoulder exposed. And whilst he was never a burner, he was fast enough, and lost little speed when changing direction and that was good enough to beat his guy.
also the quick hands helped free his winger up for clear passages
the quick hands are still there but there isnt much timing or chemestry between him and Raps. But he's lost too much speed to win the way he has in his career and his footwork is noticably slower. When he changes direction, it's like his stuck in quicksand. It's left him very exposed, because where as before he was a reliable footballer who provided a good attacking spark, and had occasional nightmare defensive games... now he's a passanger in attack who's going to have occasional nightmare defensive games
Last edited by Botman on April 18, 2021, 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jarrod Croker
I'd say that's a fair assessment - although there are some signs that even his hands and the speed of movement and thought that accompanies it may be on the wane too.Botman wrote: ↑April 18, 2021, 5:46 pm I was talking to a mate last night about it and i just think guys like Croker, they dont win with physicality or strength. They win with smart, sharp footwork, a little bit of speed and understanding angles and leverage
Croker consistently beat players across their face on the inside shoulder because whilst he wasnt strong, he had quick feet and understood innately when a player was overcommitted and has his inside shoulder exposed. And whilst he was never a burner, he was fast enough, and was lost little speed when changing direction and that was good enough to beat his guy.
also the quick hands helped free his winger up for clear passages
the quick hands are still there but there isnt much timing or chemestry between him and Raps. But he's lost too much speed to win the way he has in his career and his footwork is noticably slower. When he changes direction, it's like his stuck in quicksand. It's left him very exposed, because where as before he was a reliable footballer who provided a good attacking spark, and had occasional nightmare defensive games... now he's a passanger in attack who's going to have occasional nightmare defensive games
Re: Jarrod Croker
yeah i can see that arguement. There have been a few times this year when he's thrown a ball that would be bread and butter for him previously and they've missed the mark.
is that waning abilities? lack of chemestry? lack of confidence? small sample size, bad plays?
Probably a combination of all, but given the other parts of his game are in such a sharp decline i wouldnt hold it against anyone suggesting its that.
is that waning abilities? lack of chemestry? lack of confidence? small sample size, bad plays?
Probably a combination of all, but given the other parts of his game are in such a sharp decline i wouldnt hold it against anyone suggesting its that.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
He was bad prior to 2020 though-at least as far back as 2018 and if he is going to be in the Origin conversation then his game deserves an unbiased assessment. The club made the GF in '19 after Croker reluctantly agreed to co-captaincy after some embarrassing fadeouts the previous season. Jack Wighton's revelation at five eighth and Papalii's transition to the front row as well as CNK's emergence gave the club a false sense of a widening premiership window. Even still, to dig the heels in over money with Bateman and Cotric and to instead sign a declining Croker, with opinions in his favour no less, is going to haunt this club moving forward.
Re: Jarrod Croker
It's what happens when you lose a little bit of physicality (athleticism) sometimes- you're just not quite where you want or expect to be. The difference might be inches but all those angles and timing you're posting about, they are all just a bit out of whack too as a consequence. Not going to be easy for Toots to find his way back. Hard to believe that the guy who was genuinely inspirational at times in our '19 run is battling to make any impact all now.afgtnk wrote: ↑April 18, 2021, 5:51 pmI'd say that's a fair assessment - although there are some signs that even his hands and the speed of movement and thought that accompanies it may be on the wane too.Botman wrote: ↑April 18, 2021, 5:46 pm I was talking to a mate last night about it and i just think guys like Croker, they dont win with physicality or strength. They win with smart, sharp footwork, a little bit of speed and understanding angles and leverage
Croker consistently beat players across their face on the inside shoulder because whilst he wasnt strong, he had quick feet and understood innately when a player was overcommitted and has his inside shoulder exposed. And whilst he was never a burner, he was fast enough, and was lost little speed when changing direction and that was good enough to beat his guy.
also the quick hands helped free his winger up for clear passages
the quick hands are still there but there isnt much timing or chemestry between him and Raps. But he's lost too much speed to win the way he has in his career and his footwork is noticably slower. When he changes direction, it's like his stuck in quicksand. It's left him very exposed, because where as before he was a reliable footballer who provided a good attacking spark, and had occasional nightmare defensive games... now he's a passanger in attack who's going to have occasional nightmare defensive games
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Re: Jarrod Croker
One of my concerns as far back as 2019 was that one of Croker's strengths was slipping through holes in the line that shouldn't be slipped through - but he wasn't able to find them. Not because of speed - though probably this year that's not helping - but because he's not getting the ball fast enough. Him not having a consistent winger outside him in the last three years is probably not helping some of the other issues too.
I thought he was the least of our problems on Saturday night. He made at least one cover tackle late in the game that saved a certain try on a guy much bigger that showed he's still got it, and he's still only four games back from injury - remember guys, the Warriors game was his first one back and in that game he suffered another injury. I think he's earned the right for a little more leeway. He's still creating chances, still scoring tries, still converting them.
But I'm gonna repeat it and I'm gonna repeat it until I'm out of breath - he's not going to Darius Boyd us, guys. He's not going to do that to us. He loves this club more than any of us possibly could, he won't need to be told.
I thought he was the least of our problems on Saturday night. He made at least one cover tackle late in the game that saved a certain try on a guy much bigger that showed he's still got it, and he's still only four games back from injury - remember guys, the Warriors game was his first one back and in that game he suffered another injury. I think he's earned the right for a little more leeway. He's still creating chances, still scoring tries, still converting them.
But I'm gonna repeat it and I'm gonna repeat it until I'm out of breath - he's not going to Darius Boyd us, guys. He's not going to do that to us. He loves this club more than any of us possibly could, he won't need to be told.
And to all the people who doubted me, hello to them as well. - Mark Webber, Raiders Ballboy and Unluckiest F1 Driver Ever
I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)
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Re: Jarrod Croker
He burns a lot of tackles with 2-3m gains off our line though. He used to be good got 6-7m per carry down that end of the field.raiderskater wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 1:19 pm One of my concerns as far back as 2019 was that one of Croker's strengths was slipping through holes in the line that shouldn't be slipped through - but he wasn't able to find them. Not because of speed - though probably this year that's not helping - but because he's not getting the ball fast enough. Him not having a consistent winger outside him in the last three years is probably not helping some of the other issues too.
I thought he was the least of our problems on Saturday night. He made at least one cover tackle late in the game that saved a certain try on a guy much bigger that showed he's still got it, and he's still only four games back from injury - remember guys, the Warriors game was his first one back and in that game he suffered another injury. I think he's earned the right for a little more leeway. He's still creating chances, still scoring tries, still converting them.
But I'm gonna repeat it and I'm gonna repeat it until I'm out of breath - he's not going to Darius Boyd us, guys. He's not going to do that to us. He loves this club more than any of us possibly could, he won't need to be told.
He's averaging 60m. All our backline are posting really poor running metres other than Rapa (150) and CNK (170).
Re: Jarrod Croker
Needed to tuck into the KFC whilst he was injured.
He's not going to physically last whilst he's getting bashed like he is
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He's not going to physically last whilst he's getting bashed like he is
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Admittedly I'm now dietician, however I'm not sure KFC is the way get your body ready for NRL. Well it didn't have that effect on me at least.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
**** you wash your mouth out with soap, ****!Northern Raider wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 2:49 pmAdmittedly I'm now dietician, however I'm not sure KFC is the way get your body ready for NRL. Well it didn't have that effect on me at least.
Re: Jarrod Croker
If KFC is the way to get your body ready for NRL action, let me tell you fellas something... dont worry about this form slump, i got dis
Re: Jarrod Croker
Just showing your ignorance of The Leilua Method.Northern Raider wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 2:49 pmAdmittedly I'm now dietician, however I'm not sure KFC is the way get your body ready for NRL. Well it didn't have that effect on me at least.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Not quite working for him now though.BadnMean wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 4:16 pmJust showing your ignorance of The Leilua Method.Northern Raider wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 2:49 pmAdmittedly I'm now dietician, however I'm not sure KFC is the way get your body ready for NRL. Well it didn't have that effect on me at least.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Obviously not eating enough KFC anymore.Northern Raider wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 4:41 pmNot quite working for him now though.BadnMean wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 4:16 pmJust showing your ignorance of The Leilua Method.Northern Raider wrote: ↑April 19, 2021, 2:49 pmAdmittedly I'm now dietician, however I'm not sure KFC is the way get your body ready for NRL. Well it didn't have that effect on me at least.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Croker -> KFC seems like a stealth way of incepting Croker -> wing.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Croker could chase chickens for speed work..like Rocky did.
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#emptythetank
#emptythetank
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Rocky Stewart?-PJ- wrote:Croker could chase chickens for speed work..like Rocky did.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
I think there were quite a few who accepted there were some issues from Croker last yr. Injures and a new bub, and they had affects on his performance.
However, like Rapa, he is now an outside back who is the wrong side of 30. He has lost a yard of pace. He isnt as agile as the 23yr old version.
I, and others said, 2020 would make or break Croker. 6 wks in, I think he has shown glimpses of both. However, its more decline than resurgence, and that missed grubber vs Panthers is a great example. That was a bread and butter play for him and he missed it.
It also doesn't help that the team hasn't been in great touch. So let's hope that turns
However, like Rapa, he is now an outside back who is the wrong side of 30. He has lost a yard of pace. He isnt as agile as the 23yr old version.
I, and others said, 2020 would make or break Croker. 6 wks in, I think he has shown glimpses of both. However, its more decline than resurgence, and that missed grubber vs Panthers is a great example. That was a bread and butter play for him and he missed it.
It also doesn't help that the team hasn't been in great touch. So let's hope that turns
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Living in the past Matt.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Matt - over 95% of first graders would have dived and grounded the ball for that try against Penrith. It wasn't a difficult one.
I've also noticed Croker isn't chasing hard when we are bombing in the opponent's 20 or contesting bombs in our own 20. Keep an eye out for this if he plays on the weekend.
I understand what Croker has done for the team in the past, and a majority of people on this forum love him to bits. But the question is - is he better than Scott, Kris, and Timoko ? I think Kris is the best centre out of the 4, and Timoko (from what I saw last year v Canterbury) is competing with Scott for the other spot.
I've also noticed Croker isn't chasing hard when we are bombing in the opponent's 20 or contesting bombs in our own 20. Keep an eye out for this if he plays on the weekend.
I understand what Croker has done for the team in the past, and a majority of people on this forum love him to bits. But the question is - is he better than Scott, Kris, and Timoko ? I think Kris is the best centre out of the 4, and Timoko (from what I saw last year v Canterbury) is competing with Scott for the other spot.
Re: Jarrod Croker
Scott > Timoko. Scott has shown glimpses and deserves a solid run in the first team before we can fully assess him. Its between Timoko and Kris for me, but Kris get the nod for now based on current form, whereas Timoko is still a bit raw.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Timoko > Scott from what I’ve seen
Re: Jarrod Croker
Scott needs to show he can consistently handle the decision making and contact necessary to be a good centre defensively. He's had the odd game where he's done it well. But scattered among are quite a few games where he's been poor defensively. (even ignoring the rib game). He's shown enough glimpses in attack to make me hopeful there but he seems to regularly go back to poor reads, arm grabbing and a leaky edge in general.
Kris then daylight for best current centre on form, Scott and Toots have both had their issues. Timoko's stats haven't been remarkable at all really in reggies, compared to peers like HSS or Hoppa who seem to have been more impressive on paper in the same position. Small sample sizes though. But he impressed in FG when he did get a go.
Kris then daylight for best current centre on form, Scott and Toots have both had their issues. Timoko's stats haven't been remarkable at all really in reggies, compared to peers like HSS or Hoppa who seem to have been more impressive on paper in the same position. Small sample sizes though. But he impressed in FG when he did get a go.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Both Scott and Croker should be axed, but instead well see Scott axed.
Kris should be the first back picked if were rewarding based on performances.
If we don't have confidence in the backs coming through, then we need to recruit from outside and let a few of our excess forwards go...
Kris should be the first back picked if were rewarding based on performances.
If we don't have confidence in the backs coming through, then we need to recruit from outside and let a few of our excess forwards go...
Re: Jarrod Croker
The jury has been out on Scott for quite a while now, early in the year he looked ok, 7/10 ok at best, but its like he doesn't impose himself on the game enough.
Given the whole backline is below par we need someone to step up and soon.
I had high hopes for Semi this year, really thought he could be our flying Fijian, still time of course but I want it now !!!
Given the whole backline is below par we need someone to step up and soon.
I had high hopes for Semi this year, really thought he could be our flying Fijian, still time of course but I want it now !!!
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Re: Jarrod Croker
If only The Passenger could side step in a match, like he seems to be able to do being dropped, in the weekly team selection...
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Re: Jarrod Croker
The disrespect on this forum for a man who's been nothing but a good, faithful and loyal servant to this club is downright sickening.
May you all never have a bad four weeks in your lives.
May you all never have a bad four weeks in your lives.
And to all the people who doubted me, hello to them as well. - Mark Webber, Raiders Ballboy and Unluckiest F1 Driver Ever
I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)
I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)
Re: Jarrod Croker
First thing I thought of reading that post
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Last edited by greeneyed on April 20, 2021, 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Over the top criticism
Reason: Over the top criticism
Re: Jarrod Croker
He’s had a bad 4 weeks in attack.raiderskater wrote: ↑April 20, 2021, 7:16 pm The disrespect on this forum for a man who's been nothing but a good, faithful and loyal servant to this club is downright sickening.
May you all never have a bad four weeks in your lives.
But he hasn’t been able to tackle for 12 years