Jarrod Croker

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BadnMean
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by BadnMean »

The Nickman wrote: April 11, 2021, 9:30 am
afgtnk wrote:He's shot physically, Nickman. That isn't poor form. He just doesn't have it in his body to do what he used to do, and the chances of getting that back are slim.
Not grounding that ball is not from being shot physically. He grounds that ball and the game and this whole discussion changes considerably.
But he didn't ground it.

You are somehow trying to set up Croker grounding the ball as some kind of emblem or argument. It's beside the point. In general, we still see Croker's kick chase as a strength of his game.

He's been back for a few weeks now. Last year everyone was saying he needs to show some sort of return to form. With injury and whatnot, he's started slowly. I do think it's magnified by the relative plodderness of our back 5 (in attack, CNK is a superstar defensively). Absent game breakers and x factor, the magnifying glass is being turned on to who is the most plodderish and most upgradable.

Simonsen is the most plodderish and upgradable. It's a bit early still to write Croker off. But the spotlight is on him. The fact remains that as yet he is producing less on the field than our ageing winger who's lost his pace and our 7 game rookie centre. But he kicks well. He holds his own defensively, in general, in a tough position. He deserves another month or so to get it right and find a way to be more effective.

We need a little bit more spark from our back 5 imo. CNK and Rapana are known quantities at this point. Both will bust a gut getting us the hard yards and maybe break a tackle or two. But they aren't about to cut a team up. In fact, if you look at our back 5, opposition fans wouldn't break a sweat seeing any of them on the team sheet. No real threats. You'd look at them and go nobody (Simo) -adequate but zero harm (Croker, CNK, Scott) - rookie (Kris) -and has been (Rapana).

It's possible things will improve when Scott returns and picks up his good form. Either Bailey will lift with him or should probably be replaced for someone with more spark. If that works then Croker can carry on being a solid 6 and kicking goals. If that doesn't improve things, then the howls will get louder. That doesn't bother me- I think RIcky will be viewing longer term and have 2 new wingers in mind for next season before he'd replace Croker.

But I don't think our back 5 can win the comp, playing as they are, with current personel. We look like a 6th best team. The top 5 spots on the ladder are filled with teams with big weapons in the back 5. Multiple threats. We've got pop guns by comparison. There's 2 players easy in each of their back 5's I'd pick above our guys in a heartbeat. I can't say for sure they'd be picking any of ours.

Curtis Scott has been our most threatening back line player this year. He's going good, but it's a bit of an inditement on the state of our threat back there. Croker is picking up the heat for that, but it's a wider problem. I think GreenMachine has nailed it- the general plodderness back there, exacerbated by our two best backline players (Scott and Kris) not being regulars on the team sheet is highlighting Croker's weak points right now.

But Ricky will fix other positions before he chucks out his captain and goalkicker and that is right and good.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by GreenMachine »

In terms of back 5 as it stands, our most upgradable in order (in my opinion):

1. Croker
2. Simmo
3. CNK

Now CNK is going nowhere...he offers a lot in defence and the tough carries. Fair enough, but his ball playing and pace are lacking.

Simmo just looks bog average. If we had someone with a bit more size and speed I’d be making that move now.

Croker is a tough, but right call. If it’s form, let him find it in the reggies. If it’s physical, we’ll find out in the reggies too.

Rapana for mine, as critical as I am of his brain snaps and lack of pace (and the fact he’s playing on the wrong wing) is still a contributor. Busts tackles and lurks around the ruck. I’d keep him this season and be on the market for a replacement.

At some point, Don and Ricky need to look at the logjam in the forwards and make some calls.

Take that cap room and find some explosiveness for the backline in the wing positions namely.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

Criticism of Simo is well off IMO.

He's not going to set the world on fire or do anything too spectacular, but he's the type of cheapy that belongs in a good modern backline.

He's young, defensively solid, minimal errors, good in the air, intelligent, good top end speed, and has decent finishing ability. Big problem right now is that he's seeing pretty much no ball inside the opposition 20 to show off some of those attributes, because we don't have any attack setup on the right.

One of the last players I'd be looking at in the backline currently tbh.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by GreenMachine »

afgtnk wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:32 am Criticism of Simo is well off IMO.

He's not going to set the world on fire or do anything too spectacular, but he's the type of cheapy that belongs in a modern backline.

He's young, defensively solid, good in the air, intelligent, good top end speed, and has decent finishing ability. Big problem right now is that he's seeing pretty much no ball inside the opposition 20 to show off some of those attributes. One of the last players I'd be looking at in the backline.
Maybe your right..
But at the moment he’s getting folded in the first carry.
Modern game demands your wingers either poke through the line or get a quick play the ball...he does neither.
Can’t say we get to see much of his pace or finishing because as you mentioned the ball doesn’t get near him.
Swapping wings is the first thing I’d try before writing him off... but at this stage he’s really shown nothing.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

I think he'll be fine as soon as we sort of that right side/Stuart decides to use it. Agree on his carries, clearly it's not a strong part of his game. However, we can't have a backline stacked with stars eithers. There needs to be a few solid cheapies, and he's one of them.

Regarding swapping him, to me the main reason why he and Rapana seem to be where they are is because he sees Rapana as the more attacking threat, and hence wants him stationed there because our attack is biased towards the left. Given that seems to be the case, I don't think Simo is suited there longer term and therefore imperative that Rapana be upgraded on.
Last edited by afgtnk on April 11, 2021, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by mick63 »

Confidence is the issue that’s the elephant in the room.
Jarrod is playing without any.
Previously he would take a dirty hit up after dirty hit up from inside the 20.
Now he seems to lurk without intent resulting in Rapana,generally, doing extras.
This impacts over 80 minutes on Jordan’s relative explosiveness.
The most troubling aspect of Jarrods lack of confidence is that when he misses a tackle,bumped off or out of the line too quickly for zero return, and a try is scored he drops his shoulders and not many come and offer support.
No one is as critical of JC as he no doubt is.
But you can’t let the others around you do your work and he has to be accountable,and more than most with his seniority and wage.
I’d give him this week against the Eels at home and see how he goes.
His ceiling has dropped,not collapsed,but the team needs to see what Timoko can do with time in the top grade.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by GreenMachine »

afgtnk wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:40 am I think he'll be fine as soon as we sort of that right side/Stuart decides to use it. Agree on his carries, clearly it's not a strong part of his game. However, we can't have a backline stacked with stars eithers. There needs to be a few solid cheapies, and he's one of them.

Regarding swapping him, to me the main reason why he and Rapana seem to be where they are is because he sees Rapana as the more attacking threat, and hence wants him stationed there because our attack is biased towards the left. Given that seems to be the case, I don't think Simo is suited there longer term and therefore imperative that Rapana be upgraded on.
Agree that’s why we see the Rapana on the wrong wing naturally for him...
And yes, I’m hoping we upgrade him next season.

Rapana would be the ideal back to carry on the bench in my opinion.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by One Post Wonder »

The solution is obvious. Jarrod Croker should stay for now. When Curtis Scott returns, Sebastian Kris should be our bench utility.

If an edge forward gets injured during the game, he replaces them directly.
If a centre goes down, he can replace them directly.
If a winger goes down, he can replace them directly.
If CNK goes down, a winger moves to fullback, and Kris becomes the winger.

And if nobody gets injured, Kris can replace Hudson Young as our right edge forward, Hudson can move to the middle, and botman and alfafa can go full Randy Marsh all over their screens.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Botman »

If you're only going to make one post, make it a good one.

well played OPW.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by gangrenous »

Now he or she has a dilemma, can’t thank you for the compliment without ruining their brand!

Hmm... what shall I accuse OPW of that they can’t deny...
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: April 11, 2021, 7:17 pm Now he or she has a dilemma, can’t thank you for the compliment without ruining their brand!

Hmm... what shall I accuse OPW of that they can’t deny...
You think i didnt know that??!
You think im out here just shootin by the seat of my pants?
:D

OPW, the time is yours
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by gangrenous »

I have it on good authority that OPW is GE’s helicopter pilot.

And once kissed pigman.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Ruben Daley »

afgtnk wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:32 am Criticism of Simo is well off IMO.

He's not going to set the world on fire or do anything too spectacular, but he's the type of cheapy that belongs in a good modern backline.

He's young, defensively solid, minimal errors, good in the air, intelligent, good top end speed, and has decent finishing ability. Big problem right now is that he's seeing pretty much no ball inside the opposition 20 to show off some of those attributes, because we don't have any attack setup on the right.

One of the last players I'd be looking at in the backline currently tbh.
I sort of agree and I can't help but like Bailey. But he's played 33 games for the green and I swear I've said aloud in each of them, "I'd really like to see Bailey in space." I truly can't remember a time when he was running in the open. Is it just me? I think he's fast but I've never seen it.

Now, I agree he doesn't get a lot of ball/a lot of quality ball but surely in a season and a half's worth of games we would've seen him run clear. Why isn't that happening?
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by -TW- »

He's never made a long range line break

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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Botman »

I think he cracked one off the kick off when BJ had to go off with the eye injury from the fireworks?
But yeah i generally agree, he's got a lot of phyiscal tools but it's not come together as yet in FG imo
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by tommyhud9 »

GreenMachine wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:27 am

At some point, Don and Ricky need to look at the logjam in the forwards and make some calls.

Take that cap room and find some explosiveness for the backline in the wing positions namely.
Agree with this 100%.

While we have made 3 prelims and a GF in past 5 years, our attack is just no where near premiership standard anymore.

Our backline is striking fear into the minds of no opposition, and our dominance in the forwards is only worthwhile if we have people to capitalise on it.

Toots has been my fav player for a decade, however even I am beginning to see the other side to the arguments surrounding him. Could be a lack of fitness and conditioning but jeez he’s looking shot.

Simonsson has had enough time to prove his worth and I think it’s time Valemei gets a crack instead.

Raps does my head in sometimes but can have some moments of brilliance.

Ricky seemed genuinely concerned about Friday’s performance, so I do think we will see changes soon. Would love to see Timoko given a chance at some point.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by raiderskater »

A lack of confidence coming back from an injury is only natural. Especially when in his first game immediately back from the injury he proceeded to get another one - fortunately not serious - and had to play in a side completely shot to pieces.

That kick chase through for the missed try was as good as any he's made, he just didn't get the grounding. But he will. We know he will. I'm sure nobody on this board was more frustrated about it than he was - and I'm sure he'll practice it a dozen times this week. But even if he scores that try, it doesn't stop Kikau knocking CNK out of the game, or dropping the shoulder into Rapana on the ground and getting away with it. Those were much bigger turning points.

I'm not writing off any player on three bloody games, but I am even less inclined to write off a player on three games when that player has years and years of good, faithful, solid service to the club. Croker's never let us down before. He's not going to start now. He'll come good, and if he doesn't, I have absolute, complete and utter faith in him to do the right thing by the club of his own accord.

Some of you gronks would paint him as horrible as Darius Boyd, and that's just not on.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by GreenMachine »

raiderskater wrote: April 12, 2021, 8:34 am A lack of confidence coming back from an injury is only natural. Especially when in his first game immediately back from the injury he proceeded to get another one - fortunately not serious - and had to play in a side completely shot to pieces.

That kick chase through for the missed try was as good as any he's made, he just didn't get the grounding. But he will. We know he will. I'm sure nobody on this board was more frustrated about it than he was - and I'm sure he'll practice it a dozen times this week. But even if he scores that try, it doesn't stop Kikau knocking CNK out of the game, or dropping the shoulder into Rapana on the ground and getting away with it. Those were much bigger turning points.

I'm not writing off any player on three bloody games, but I am even less inclined to write off a player on three games when that player has years and years of good, faithful, solid service to the club. Croker's never let us down before. He's not going to start now. He'll come good, and if he doesn't, I have absolute, complete and utter faith in him to do the right thing by the club of his own accord.

Some of you gronks would paint him as horrible as Darius Boyd, and that's just not on.
Thats a pile right there...
The good old, "were all horrible gronks for saying what is obvious"...
I haven't read a single post where people have said anything other than Croker is a great clubman and fantastic player (in his time). However, he is past it when it comes to the modern outside back in this game.
People have been very respectful and nobody has jumped to the Darius Boyd level of vitriol we saw with Brisbane...
But please do carry on...it seems like the only defence mounted by some is to trash people for offering very valid critique...
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by simo »

raiderskater wrote: April 12, 2021, 8:34 am But even if he scores that try, it doesn't stop Kikau knocking CNK out of the game, or dropping the shoulder into Rapana on the ground and getting away with it.
Actually, the likelihood of any of that happening if that one event is changed is extremely slim.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

raiderskater wrote: April 12, 2021, 8:34 am Some of you gronks would paint him as horrible as Darius Boyd, and that's just not on.
The irony I am seeing is that the only people levelling abuse and ad hominem attacks in any Croker-related discussion aren't from the people criticising Croker.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Seiffert82 »

Ruben Daley wrote: April 11, 2021, 9:29 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:32 am Criticism of Simo is well off IMO.

He's not going to set the world on fire or do anything too spectacular, but he's the type of cheapy that belongs in a good modern backline.

He's young, defensively solid, minimal errors, good in the air, intelligent, good top end speed, and has decent finishing ability. Big problem right now is that he's seeing pretty much no ball inside the opposition 20 to show off some of those attributes, because we don't have any attack setup on the right.

One of the last players I'd be looking at in the backline currently tbh.
I sort of agree and I can't help but like Bailey. But he's played 33 games for the green and I swear I've said aloud in each of them, "I'd really like to see Bailey in space." I truly can't remember a time when he was running in the open. Is it just me? I think he's fast but I've never seen it.

Now, I agree he doesn't get a lot of ball/a lot of quality ball but surely in a season and a half's worth of games we would've seen him run clear. Why isn't that happening?
Yeah, I was just about to come on here and say something similar.

The Croker debate is as old as the hills and is getting boring. Whatever will be will be.

Simonsson is solid, but I barely recall him breaking a tackle or being any sort of aerial threat. He looks fit this season, but he doesn't offer a great deal TBH. At least Rapa is still breaking tackles and making things happen. Simo just gives you a solid hitup 80% of the time. I'd be bringing Valemei in.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by -TW- »

Botman wrote:I think he cracked one off the kick off when BJ had to go off with the eye injury from the fireworks?
But yeah i generally agree, he's got a lot of phyiscal tools but it's not come together as yet in FG imo
Not gonna lie I was pretty hammered that game to cope with thinking we were going to get pumped

I do remember him scoring in front of us in the southern corner

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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Ruben Daley »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 12, 2021, 10:01 am
Ruben Daley wrote: April 11, 2021, 9:29 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:32 am Criticism of Simo is well off IMO.

He's not going to set the world on fire or do anything too spectacular, but he's the type of cheapy that belongs in a good modern backline.

He's young, defensively solid, minimal errors, good in the air, intelligent, good top end speed, and has decent finishing ability. Big problem right now is that he's seeing pretty much no ball inside the opposition 20 to show off some of those attributes, because we don't have any attack setup on the right.

One of the last players I'd be looking at in the backline currently tbh.
I sort of agree and I can't help but like Bailey. But he's played 33 games for the green and I swear I've said aloud in each of them, "I'd really like to see Bailey in space." I truly can't remember a time when he was running in the open. Is it just me? I think he's fast but I've never seen it.

Now, I agree he doesn't get a lot of ball/a lot of quality ball but surely in a season and a half's worth of games we would've seen him run clear. Why isn't that happening?
Yeah, I was just about to come on here and say something similar.

The Croker debate is as old as the hills and is getting boring. Whatever will be will be.

Simonsson is solid, but I barely recall him breaking a tackle or being any sort of aerial threat. He looks fit this season, but he doesn't offer a great deal TBH. At least Rapa is still breaking tackles and making things happen. Simo just gives you a solid hitup 80% of the time. I'd be bringing Valemei in.
That's right. He's solid and he shows enough for me to feel - as an ever-optimistic fan - that he's just on the verge of hitting the next level but when I think back to specific moments, there are no highlights other than that great grab and offload to Hudson against NZ (I think it was NZ).

Valemei is more likely to knock it on cold (and be targeted with high balls for that reason) but I can recall a number of strong runs, tackle busts and tough tries in his ten games.

I'm in two minds. I think I'd prefer Bailey to just push to that next level where he's beating players and has become a genuine threat but I just wonder when it'll happen, if there has been no glimpse of it yet.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by bonehead »

we never attack to our right wing though, everything Bailey does is through grunt carries

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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

Ruben Daley wrote: April 11, 2021, 9:29 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:32 am Criticism of Simo is well off IMO.

He's not going to set the world on fire or do anything too spectacular, but he's the type of cheapy that belongs in a good modern backline.

He's young, defensively solid, minimal errors, good in the air, intelligent, good top end speed, and has decent finishing ability. Big problem right now is that he's seeing pretty much no ball inside the opposition 20 to show off some of those attributes, because we don't have any attack setup on the right.

One of the last players I'd be looking at in the backline currently tbh.
I sort of agree and I can't help but like Bailey. But he's played 33 games for the green and I swear I've said aloud in each of them, "I'd really like to see Bailey in space." I truly can't remember a time when he was running in the open. Is it just me? I think he's fast but I've never seen it.

Now, I agree he doesn't get a lot of ball/a lot of quality ball but surely in a season and a half's worth of games we would've seen him run clear. Why isn't that happening?
Probably a few reasons I'd say.

- He debuted in 2019, and ever since 2019 our attack without Crawley coaching it has become far more conservative/less expansive. Far more up the guts than 2015-2018.

- He's naturally not a blockbusting winger, the type that goes looking for the ball and makes breaks midfield ala Rapana or Cotric. It's kinda like asking why Ed Lee doesn't make breaks like them - to make a break, players like that really need to have the space. I can't even recall the last time someone gave him the ball with space ahead of him tbh.

- To reiterate the point about the quality of ball being being received, forget about the quality, he just isn't flatout getting it in attacking positions. The only thing he's being used for or is really able to do in this team is make dirty hard metres, which will never make him look very good.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by dubby »

Simo is solid without being spectacular.



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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by simo »

afgtnk wrote: April 13, 2021, 12:58 am
Ruben Daley wrote: April 11, 2021, 9:29 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 11, 2021, 11:32 am Criticism of Simo is well off IMO.

He's not going to set the world on fire or do anything too spectacular, but he's the type of cheapy that belongs in a good modern backline.

He's young, defensively solid, minimal errors, good in the air, intelligent, good top end speed, and has decent finishing ability. Big problem right now is that he's seeing pretty much no ball inside the opposition 20 to show off some of those attributes, because we don't have any attack setup on the right.

One of the last players I'd be looking at in the backline currently tbh.
I sort of agree and I can't help but like Bailey. But he's played 33 games for the green and I swear I've said aloud in each of them, "I'd really like to see Bailey in space." I truly can't remember a time when he was running in the open. Is it just me? I think he's fast but I've never seen it.

Now, I agree he doesn't get a lot of ball/a lot of quality ball but surely in a season and a half's worth of games we would've seen him run clear. Why isn't that happening?
Probably a few reasons I'd say.

- He debuted in 2019, and ever since 2019 our attack without Crawley coaching it has become far more conservative/less expansive. Far more up the guts than 2015-2018.

- He's naturally not a blockbusting winger, the type that goes looking for the ball and makes breaks midfield ala Rapana or Cotric. It's kinda like asking why Ed Lee doesn't make breaks like them - to make a break, players like that really need to have the space. I can't even recall the last time someone gave him the ball with space ahead of him tbh.

- To reiterate the point about the quality of ball being being received, forget about the quality, he just isn't flatout getting it in attacking positions. The only thing he's being used for or is really able to do in this team is make dirty hard metres, which will never make him look very good.
yeah have to agree here too. cant recall any occassions where i thought simonson had bombed a try. hes on what seems to be our ball return edge
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by simo »

reckon crokes could show a bit of leadership and approach the coach about finding form in reggies. hes been off for a while now and i think we have the cattle to entertain the idea
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by RTW »

simo wrote:reckon crokes could show a bit of leadership and approach the coach about finding form in reggies. hes been off for a while now and i think we have the cattle to entertain the idea
Can you actually see a player doing this though?
I’m sure it must have happened at some point but I can’t think of an example of this happening


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Rickmando
John Ferguson
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Rickmando »

No one at any level of football ever asks to drop a grade when they’re not up to the one they are in. Not even at park level.
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Rickmando
John Ferguson
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Rickmando »

And it’d be dangerous to be dropped as a centre too - a lot of your game relies on other players, ie. good service from playmakers, defensive help from edge back rowers
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afgtnk
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

Yeah Furner's gonna resign if he realises he's not up to it too, loves the club too much, etc.
Last edited by afgtnk on April 13, 2021, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Finchy
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Finchy »

afgtnk wrote: April 13, 2021, 6:24 pm Yeah Furner's gonna resign if he realises he's not up to it too, loves the club, etc.
Honest question - what's your issue with Donny? Is he not doing a good job? If not, why not?
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afgtnk
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

Talking about David Furner mate. Back in the day we'd hear the same sort of thing about him. It never happened - he had to be given the chop.

Reality is that no matter much people think a player (or coach) loves a club, usually unless they're is forced out, whether by the club or through genuine injury, they're not going to remove themselves - and I don't blame them at all tbh. They've got a contract and a short lifespan in the game, trying to do the best for themselves.

Unless I'm unaware of things Croker has setup for himself outside of football, is the guy going to be earning 600k when he leaves the game? Madness to think he'll simply fall on his sword through his volition due to poor performance.
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Finchy
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Finchy »

Ah, fair enough.
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