Needs a spell in reserve grade to give him the opportunity to show he still has it. If this side is to show any accountability then he himself needs to make that call. No way after a start to a season like he has had and the stats from last nights game can he honestly expect anyone in the side to listen to anything he says as captain.
I feel bad for him. Easy to say “yeah but he’s on big $, etc.”, but it must be tough noticeably declining and not being able to do much about it. He’ll believe he can come good again but deep down probably knows he’s dusted. Rick will need to make a call now, unfortunately.
Croker has never been the type of player to lift the side through performances.
When we were an attacking powerhouse in '16 he contributed very well.
When we were great defensively in' 19 he also contributed very well.
With pretty much the whole side out of form...yeah, you get it.
Wiki Special wrote:I think Scott should be dropped before Croker.
Whilst not being great, I thought Scott was OK last night. He was never given good ball and he made a couple of half breaks from nothing. I do want to see half breaks converted into full breaks however.
Wiki Special wrote:I think Scott should be dropped before Croker.
Whilst not being great, I thought Scott was OK last night. He was never given good ball and he made a couple of half breaks from nothing. I do want to see half breaks converted into full breaks however.
I agree. I'd prefer Timoko and Kris to slot in for Scott and Croker however if it is one or the other I'd prefer Scott keep his place in the team. I can hardly recall the ball going down the right side much at all last night, hence why Kris was so quiet too. This has more to do with Wighton being our preferred go to option on the left. But when it did Scott at least looked he had some bulk to break the line. We need to see more from him though no doubt. Croker is like a whippet trying to outmuscle a Staffy. Just with the pace of a St Bernard.
I don’t understand the calls to drop Scott to be honest. He’s been solid this year... takes the dirty runs and bends the line. Was aggressive in defence last night and is starting to get the right arm fend back.
Dylan’s Raiders wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 8:04 pm
I don’t understand the calls to drop Scott to be honest. He’s been solid this year... takes the dirty runs and bends the line. Was aggressive in defence last night and is starting to get the right arm fend back.
his card is marked, there is no coming back from that. Raiders fans hold a grudge like few others
Dylan’s Raiders wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 8:04 pm
I don’t understand the calls to drop Scott to be honest. He’s been solid this year... takes the dirty runs and bends the line. Was aggressive in defence last night and is starting to get the right arm fend back.
his card is marked, there is no coming back from that. Raiders fans hold a grudge like few others
He's started to show a bit in attack- more like the level I was hoping for when we signed him. Considering how few quality opportunities our right gets he's actually doing ok with the ball in hand.
Defence has been a real mixed bag. Hard to pinpoint as I haven't gone back and rewatched the losses- his stats will be awful but the vast majority of that would be the injured ribs game. I wasn't that impressed with his comeback game from that defensively either though, Penrith towelled that side up.
Impression was he was ok last night. At the moment I'd be leaving him in the team. I think that every time he drops the ball though, people just get reminded of that period last season when he was killing us with ill timed drops every week.
Right now though, Scott is going ok compared to Croker. It's starting to look pretty obvious Kris needs to be playing where his best position is- left centre. It would get rid of our worst perfomer in the back 5, replace him with one of our best and we could at least get a proper winger back out wide as well instead of shoe-horning Kris there (who is much more a centre/backrower than a centre/winger imo.)
I feel like it's worth noting, just to pump the breaks a little bit... Kris has been good with ball in hand, but he's been genuinely not good defensively. Like no better or worse than Croker or Scott.
He's absolutely in my 17 but i feel like the desire to replace Croker and Scott is papering over some issues he has.
He's made some TERRIBLE reads this year. And he's young and he should improve, especially if he plays his best positon week in and week out for a long period. But he's not quite as good as we're making him out to be right now. We need to manage expectations as a fan base. He's got work to do too.
Botman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 9:02 pm
I feel like it's worth noting, just to pump the breaks a little bit... Kris has been good with ball in hand, but he's been genuinely not good defensively. Like no better or worse than Croker or Scott.
He's absolutely in my 17 but i feel like the desire to replace Croker and Scott is papering over some issues he has.
He's made some TERRIBLE reads this year. And he's young and he should improve, especially if he plays his best positon week in and week out for a long period. But he's not quite as good as we're making him out to be right now. We need to manage expectations as a fan base. He's got work to do too.
He's played four different positions in six games this year, after a one year lay-off, with a total of 10 NRL games under his belt. I'm sure he'll be fine.
His physicality is of no concern, unlike Croker and Scott, and I've seen him make a number of good reads too.
Botman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 9:02 pm
I feel like it's worth noting, just to pump the breaks a little bit... Kris has been good with ball in hand, but he's been genuinely not good defensively. Like no better or worse than Croker or Scott.
He's absolutely in my 17 but i feel like the desire to replace Croker and Scott is papering over some issues he has.
He's made some TERRIBLE reads this year. And he's young and he should improve, especially if he plays his best positon week in and week out for a long period. But he's not quite as good as we're making him out to be right now. We need to manage expectations as a fan base. He's got work to do too.
I think he's looked the most punishing tackler among our back 5. Which is distinct from best defender. And yeah, he's played literally everywhere except where he's been supposed to have been playing. I would like to note that the first 3 games he's been played at centre we've won all 3 and conceded 10, 12 and 4 points respectively. Panthers game being the anomaly. I'd say he's easily been our best centre defensively and it's daylight second.
Honestly, our right side gets literally zero ball, it’s actually astounding how little goes down that edge. I’m hoping CHN can fix that, but Scott is hardly the issue here.
You can’t refuse to water your plant and then crack the **** when it dies.
Ignoring the rib game, i think Scott has been our best defensive centre. Not that he's been lights out by any means. Our entire back 5 could be replaced and i'd be ok with it. That's how bad they're going.
But my point is simply to say if our collective expectation is that Kris will be plug and play, no problems at all, we're being unfair to him.
The sheen wont come off of Kris easily but he wont solve a lot of problems for us tbh.
The Nickman wrote:Honestly, our right side gets literally zero ball, it’s actually astounding how little goes down that edge. I’m hoping CHN can fix that, but Scott is hardly the issue here.
You can’t refuse to water your plant and then crack the **** when it dies.
Was it Voss who during the game said that Croker had not taken a shot at goal from the right yet this season? Crazy.
Dylan’s Raiders wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 8:04 pm
I don’t understand the calls to drop Scott to be honest. He’s been solid this year... takes the dirty runs and bends the line. Was aggressive in defence last night and is starting to get the right arm fend back.
his card is marked, there is no coming back from that. Raiders fans hold a grudge like few others
He bends the line? Did I miss something?! Not much use in doing the dirty runs if you just go nowhere with them
The Nickman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 10:06 pm
Honestly, our right side gets literally zero ball, it’s actually astounding how little goes down that edge. I’m hoping CHN can fix that, but Scott is hardly the issue here.
You can’t refuse to water your plant and then crack the **** when it dies.
I'm not wasting my time watering some plant in vain hope of it becoming a beautiful flower, when I already know that all I've got is a bunch of weeds
Rip the thing out, put some new soil in, and flog the pot for whatever you can get on Gumtree
The Nickman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 10:06 pm
Honestly, our right side gets literally zero ball, it’s actually astounding how little goes down that edge. I’m hoping CHN can fix that, but Scott is hardly the issue here.
You can’t refuse to water your plant and then crack the **** when it dies.
I'm not wasting my time watering some plant in vain hope of it becoming a beautiful flower, when I already know that all I've got is a bunch of weeds
Rip the thing out, put some new soil in, and flog the pot for whatever you can get on Gumtree
You don’t think a right edge of CHN, Scott and Kris/Simonsson could actually benefit from some quality ball occasionally?
The Nickman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 10:06 pm
Honestly, our right side gets literally zero ball, it’s actually astounding how little goes down that edge. I’m hoping CHN can fix that, but Scott is hardly the issue here.
You can’t refuse to water your plant and then crack the **** when it dies.
I'm not wasting my time watering some plant in vain hope of it becoming a beautiful flower, when I already know that all I've got is a bunch of weeds
Rip the thing out, put some new soil in, and flog the pot for whatever you can get on Gumtree
You don’t think a right edge of CHN, Scott and Kris/Simonsson could actually benefit from some quality ball occasionally?
Botman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 10:07 pm
Ignoring the rib game, i think Scott has been our best defensive centre. Not that he's been lights out by any means. Our entire back 5 could be replaced and i'd be ok with it. That's how bad they're going.
But my point is simply to say if our collective expectation is that Kris will be plug and play, no problems at all, we're being unfair to him.
The sheen wont come off of Kris easily but he wont solve a lot of problems for us tbh.
I disagree. I think he's a FG'er ready to roll. He's not the messiah, but he'll add things we need back there like hard running, physicality and slightly more toe than we currently have. Defensively he's been very solid imo- again a step up on our current centres. I guess I just see this one differently.
Dylan’s Raiders wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 8:04 pm
I don’t understand the calls to drop Scott to be honest. He’s been solid this year... takes the dirty runs and bends the line. Was aggressive in defence last night and is starting to get the right arm fend back.
his card is marked, there is no coming back from that. Raiders fans hold a grudge like few others
He bends the line? Did I miss something?! Not much use in doing the dirty runs if you just go nowhere with them
He made 130m last week. That's decent from a centre. No one is saying he tore that game up or he's 2016 Joey, but he put in a good shift vs Cowboys imo and a game that was more in line with his first 2 efforts from this season. And i've been accused of being some sort of Scott 'hater' before.
His leg drive is very much better than last season, probably helped by the few kg muscle he added once all his court stuff was behind him. He's still rangy but he looks stronger.
Botman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 9:02 pm
I feel like it's worth noting, just to pump the breaks a little bit... Kris has been good with ball in hand, but he's been genuinely not good defensively. Like no better or worse than Croker or Scott.
He's absolutely in my 17 but i feel like the desire to replace Croker and Scott is papering over some issues he has.
He's made some TERRIBLE reads this year. And he's young and he should improve, especially if he plays his best positon week in and week out for a long period. But he's not quite as good as we're making him out to be right now. We need to manage expectations as a fan base. He's got work to do too.
Just typical Greenhouse though. Being largely populated by 2 years old it seems "Oh Shiny and new". Remember when everyone was clamouring for the introduction of Luke Page, he had to play, he was a superstar. It's a such shame we lost the services of the future immortal.
I agree that Kris deserves a spot and his actual tackling is good, but he needs to work on his positioning which will come through experience.
Botman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 9:02 pm
I feel like it's worth noting, just to pump the breaks a little bit... Kris has been good with ball in hand, but he's been genuinely not good defensively. Like no better or worse than Croker or Scott.
He's absolutely in my 17 but i feel like the desire to replace Croker and Scott is papering over some issues he has.
He's made some TERRIBLE reads this year. And he's young and he should improve, especially if he plays his best positon week in and week out for a long period. But he's not quite as good as we're making him out to be right now. We need to manage expectations as a fan base. He's got work to do too.
Just typical Greenhouse though. Being largely populated by 2 years old it seems "Oh Shiny and new". Remember when everyone was clamouring for the introduction of Luke Page, he had to play, he was a superstar. It's a such shame we lost the services of the future immortal.
I agree that Kris deserves a spot and his actual tackling is good, but he needs to work on his positioning which will come through experience.
It's also populated by posters who have been watching this guy play footy since he was still in high school. Pretty condescending to try and link that to the LUKE PAGE excitement. And probably more a reflection on yourself if you can't see the difference. But that's pretty GH in and of itself too.
I ok with Scott at the moment, sure it'd be great if he could gain a yard of pace as shown Saturday night he did get a couple of nice passes from George and did make some nice moves. Once CHN gets the minutes in combo there will be a time to judge better.
On the left I'd be pretty keen to see Croker and Kris work together maybe swapping in and out a bit.
Botman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 9:02 pm
I feel like it's worth noting, just to pump the breaks a little bit... Kris has been good with ball in hand, but he's been genuinely not good defensively. Like no better or worse than Croker or Scott.
He's absolutely in my 17 but i feel like the desire to replace Croker and Scott is papering over some issues he has.
He's made some TERRIBLE reads this year. And he's young and he should improve, especially if he plays his best positon week in and week out for a long period. But he's not quite as good as we're making him out to be right now. We need to manage expectations as a fan base. He's got work to do too.
Just typical Greenhouse though. Being largely populated by 2 years old it seems "Oh Shiny and new". Remember when everyone was clamouring for the introduction of Luke Page, he had to play, he was a superstar. It's a such shame we lost the services of the future immortal.
I agree that Kris deserves a spot and his actual tackling is good, but he needs to work on his positioning which will come through experience.
It's also populated by posters who have been watching this guy play footy since he was still in high school. Pretty condescending to try and link that to the LUKE PAGE excitement. And probably more a reflection on yourself if you can't see the difference. But that's pretty GH in and of itself too.
Wow, Smurf beaten all ends up there, picking the ball out of the net as we speak
Hahaha to be absolutely fair, the whole LUKE PAGE thing was a massive joke to the majority of the regular posters here, real tongue in cheek after seemingly Page himself started posting here to push his own claims.
Anyone thinking the forum got swept away by the guy has a serious inability to read the room.
Hmm ok re Scott, maybe I have been unfair or maybe I've had the bar too high because of yes, Leipana and Cotric and the likes. It might also be because we bought him as a premium centre
It don't know about nice moves, I loosely recall those times he got into some space. A top centre like Josh Morris in those situations will often create something, and a plodder like Will Hopoate will do nothing. Scott did something in between from memory
I'll keep a closer eye next time, I was thinking of rewatching game anyway
Botman wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 10:07 pm
Ignoring the rib game, i think Scott has been our best defensive centre. Not that he's been lights out by any means. Our entire back 5 could be replaced and i'd be ok with it. That's how bad they're going.
But my point is simply to say if our collective expectation is that Kris will be plug and play, no problems at all, we're being unfair to him.
The sheen wont come off of Kris easily but he wont solve a lot of problems for us tbh.
I actually agree with this.
Thinking putting kris at left centre and then magically turn into a good footy side is wrong imo.
As many other posters have pointed out right now our defence / attitude is down. That should be fixable.
Our attack is aimless and reliant on really dominant patches of play or individual brilliance and it has been for sometime.