Jarrod Croker

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sprintman
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by sprintman »

He’s a passenger. We don’t need passengers..
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by The Nickman »

Rickmando wrote:
raiderskater wrote: April 20, 2021, 7:16 pm The disrespect on this forum for a man who's been nothing but a good, faithful and loyal servant to this club is downright sickening.

May you all never have a bad four weeks in your lives.
He’s had a bad 4 weeks in attack.

But he hasn’t been able to tackle for 12 years
What an absolute load of **** ****.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

If you asked opposition players and coaches who they would target in our side or want to mark up against, a lot of them would mention Croker and Scott. Baldy Hooper on NRL 360 on Monday mentioned other players were talking about our centres (in a negative way).

I would think Croker would feature in opposition talks on attacking kick chase tries, and this is one way that we score. Scott - I'm not so sure of what he has to offer and how he would feature in opposition team talks in a positive way.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by BadnMean »

Scott has hardly strung 4 games together in any kind of health since his Melbourne days. So no, I doubt anyone is talking about his threat. Even the ardent Canberra fans here have only seen a few glimpses of it when he has strung a couple of games this season pre-ribs. Just enough there to hope a decent FG'er is in there.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Rickmando »

There’s no other way to slice it. Scott has been a VERY ordinary signing by the Super Coach so far. While I wasn’t necessarily against moving Leilua on, he was one of the very few centres on the league that could impact games positively from the position with an exquisite piece of skill or a line-breaking run to lift his team mates.

If anything - his loss, and the subsequent introduction of another plodder in Scott (to go with other plodders like Croker) has only further exposed Rick’s complete lack of ideas in how to structure a modern NRL offense.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by BadnMean »

When Joey was around we'd score a number of tries a ruck or two after a blockbusting Joey run and quick ptb (Cotric too, to a slightly lesser but still noteable extent). No point rehashing all the other issues around his game but I said at the time, after we let Cotric go as well that we simply don't have anyone back there capable of starting something on their own anymore. There's no one really going to bust a team and get the ball rolling.

That's not the same thing as being efficient off the back of a dominant forward pack, it's like you say changing the flow of a game off your own bat with a special moment. X-factor.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Pete Cash »

Bellamy is a good judge of character. I wouldn't be jumping in on a player he wants to get rid of.

Anyways, not to beat a dead horse but I feel we have too much money tied up in centre anyway. We probably have about 12 % of the cap between our starting centres. Croker gets some long serving dispensation but it still feels too high for mine. I think we would get better value for money out of just sticking HSS (in an ideal world without injuries) and Timoko in there.

Look at the startin centre pairings of the good teams this week. No real order just the list their game day threads are put up at league unlimited

Melbourne

Reimis Smith/Justin Olam

Parramatta

Tom Opacic/Marata Niukore

Roosters

Josh Morris/Joseph Manu

Penrith

Paul Momirovski/Matt Burton

Now, i put it to the thread we are paying more for our centre pairings. Joseph Manu would be on a good crust but the roosters clearly decided to go with one of Manu and Latrell with Morris in the premiership chasing stage of his career.

The rest are young players from other teams/juniors
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by simo »

i love croker. think hes a wonderful bloke.
croker has absolutely stunk. he stunk last year and hes stinking this year. i dont see him getting back the things he needs in order to compete in this current game.
you can have these two opinions simultaneously. it doesnt make you disrespectful. and if you cant see that, that makes you something something
Dont delete this GE
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by GreenMachine »

I will add, it's not Croker's fault he gets selected...
Ricky needs the gumption to make the change.
And we all agree Croker is a top notch bloke...he's just past it as an impactful top calibre centre, especially in a team as devoid of backline threat as our at the moment.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Rickmando »

simo wrote: April 21, 2021, 8:48 am i love croker. think hes a wonderful bloke.
croker has absolutely stunk. he stunk last year and hes stinking this year. i dont see him getting back the things he needs in order to compete in this current game.
you can have these two opinions simultaneously. it doesnt make you disrespectful. and if you cant see that, that makes you something something
Well put Simo. I don’t think anyone here actually hates Croker the bloke. And I wouldn’t ever question his effort - he’s given plenty for the jumper.

He’s not in our best 17 as it stands.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by bonehead »

if we don't recruit we are looking internally at Kris, Timoko, HSS, Hoppa and Leo Thompson I'm guessing, how's that look to those who watch the lower grades?
I'm really keen to see the development of Leo but he's seeing very limited minutes

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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by sprintman »

Trent Merrin saw the light.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Green Blogger »

bonehead wrote: April 21, 2021, 1:42 pm if we don't recruit we are looking internally at Kris, Timoko, HSS, Hoppa and Leo Thompson I'm guessing, how's that look to those who watch the lower grades?
I'm really keen to see the development of Leo but he's seeing very limited minutes

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From what I have seen in the lower grades HSS was the pick of the three but now has a long term injury. Hoppa has been steady but is also now injured. Timoko has shown glimpses in the games I have seen but I would not say that he has been tearing it up in reserves.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Raiders_Pat »

sprintman wrote: April 21, 2021, 2:35 pm Trent Merrin saw the light.
I honestly think we need to encourage Croker to make this his last year. This is what the better teams do. Roosters medically retired Friend recently and Merrin has now retired at the Dragons. I guess it's not as straightforward as Friend and Merrin have won premierships, and I'm sure Croker wants one under his belt before he wraps up his career. But realistically, we can only afford to keep him here and be competitive if he's willing to stay on at a reduced rate. He could continue on in the NRL as a backup or off the interchange, similar to how teams have been using Benji Marshall in recent years... but he's just not a regular first grade player anymore, particularly with the pace of the game now. Same goes for Soliola and Lui... the game has moved past them and they should only be viewed as injury cover. Competitive clubs would be moving these guys on if they aren't able to come to terms on a reduced deal.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by sprintman »

Raiders_Pat wrote: April 21, 2021, 3:14 pm
sprintman wrote: April 21, 2021, 2:35 pm Trent Merrin saw the light.
I honestly think we need to encourage Croker to make this his last year. This is what the better teams do. Roosters medically retired Friend recently and Merrin has now retired at the Dragons. I guess it's not as straightforward as Friend and Merrin have won premierships, and I'm sure Croker wants one under his belt before he wraps up his career. But realistically, we can only afford to keep him here and be competitive if he's willing to stay on at a reduced rate. He could continue on in the NRL as a backup or off the interchange, similar to how teams have been using Benji Marshall in recent years... but he's just not a regular first grade player anymore, particularly with the pace of the game now. Same goes for Soliola and Lui... the game has moved past them and they should only be viewed as injury cover. Competitive clubs would be moving these guys on if they aren't able to come to terms on a reduced deal.
As Merrin said today “I realised the game had passed me by”.
Quite a shock to St Merge as it came out of the blue.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Raiders_Pat »

sprintman wrote: April 21, 2021, 3:19 pm
Raiders_Pat wrote: April 21, 2021, 3:14 pm
sprintman wrote: April 21, 2021, 2:35 pm Trent Merrin saw the light.
I honestly think we need to encourage Croker to make this his last year. This is what the better teams do. Roosters medically retired Friend recently and Merrin has now retired at the Dragons. I guess it's not as straightforward as Friend and Merrin have won premierships, and I'm sure Croker wants one under his belt before he wraps up his career. But realistically, we can only afford to keep him here and be competitive if he's willing to stay on at a reduced rate. He could continue on in the NRL as a backup or off the interchange, similar to how teams have been using Benji Marshall in recent years... but he's just not a regular first grade player anymore, particularly with the pace of the game now. Same goes for Soliola and Lui... the game has moved past them and they should only be viewed as injury cover. Competitive clubs would be moving these guys on if they aren't able to come to terms on a reduced deal.
As Merrin said today “I realised the game had passed me by”.
Quite a shock to St Merge as it came out of the blue.
From what I've seen over the past couple years, he's had patches where his output has been low but he is still able to compete at an NRL level. I'd have Merrin in my 17 before Soliola any day. It's funny when former rep players and premiership winners like Merrin and Friend realise their time is up yet our veterans (who were never on their level) think they're still able to compete at the level we need them to.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

Merrin retired after the Dragons had already replaced him.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by GreenMachine »

Northern Raider wrote: April 21, 2021, 4:11 pm Merrin retired after the Dragons had already replaced him.
This.
Plus he's already won a premiership.
I reckon where the game is headed, the average playing career will be shorter...
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Kryptonite »

The Nickman wrote: April 20, 2021, 8:59 pm
Rickmando wrote:
raiderskater wrote: April 20, 2021, 7:16 pm The disrespect on this forum for a man who's been nothing but a good, faithful and loyal servant to this club is downright sickening.

May you all never have a bad four weeks in your lives.
He’s had a bad 4 weeks in attack.

But he hasn’t been able to tackle for 12 years
What an absolute load of **** ****.
You should stick to whatever it is you do in your spare time as you clearly know 2 parts of FA about football
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Coastalraider »

Kryptonite wrote: April 21, 2021, 6:15 pm
The Nickman wrote: April 20, 2021, 8:59 pm
Rickmando wrote:
raiderskater wrote: April 20, 2021, 7:16 pm The disrespect on this forum for a man who's been nothing but a good, faithful and loyal servant to this club is downright sickening.

May you all never have a bad four weeks in your lives.
He’s had a bad 4 weeks in attack.

But he hasn’t been able to tackle for 12 years
What an absolute load of **** ****.
You should stick to whatever it is you do in your spare time as you clearly know 2 parts of FA about football
I.... um.... wow.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I’m not a stats nerd usually but on the footy tonight they mentioned that Brian To’O has broken 51 tackles this year....

I went and had a look and Croker has broken 2.

2.

Just wow. Granted T’oo is the benchmark but Croker is so far below even the median output of average outside backs.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by BadnMean »

Mickey_Raider wrote: April 22, 2021, 8:31 pm I’m not a stats nerd usually but on the footy tonight they mentioned that Brian To’O has broken 51 tackles this year....

I went and had a look and Croker has broken 2.

2.

Just wow. Granted T’oo is the benchmark but Croker is so far below even the median output of average outside backs.
Oof. To'o is having the season of his life. Much flak as he's copping Cotric has still broken 34 tackles this year.

What hurts more is our other centre is way down the list with 4 tackle breaks for the season too. If you ignore guys who have only played 1 or 2 games, then both our guys are bottom 6 among centres on that stat. General lack of impact.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Pete Cash »

To'o is a prime example of my point. He run over 300m last night and broke the yardage record for wingers

Winger is a very important position in the modern game because they do ridiculous amounts of work

But wingers are also pretty replaceable because it's a position that is purely athletic. We should be churning more wingers through imo. I bet to'o is on a pretty favourable deal for Penrith.

Rapana is a pretty strong runner but is aging and we don't have that power/speed combo going on like Penrith do
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by The Nickman »

Could somebody please change the picture that this **** thread is associated with on Tapatalk please? Absolute filth.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

Pete Cash wrote: April 23, 2021, 7:28 am To'o is a prime example of my point. He run over 300m last night and broke the yardage record for wingers

Winger is a very important position in the modern game because they do ridiculous amounts of work

But wingers are also pretty replaceable because it's a position that is purely athletic. We should be churning more wingers through imo. I bet to'o is on a pretty favourable deal for Penrith.

Rapana is a pretty strong runner but is aging and we don't have that power/speed combo going on like Penrith do
By contrast Charlie Staines has been fairly average on the opposite side for them. I'm sure Panthers fans were expecting more from him given what he showed in previous cameos.

Both emerging talents and both signed to extensions last year with Mansour being set free.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Northern Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 8:45 am
Pete Cash wrote: April 23, 2021, 7:28 am To'o is a prime example of my point. He run over 300m last night and broke the yardage record for wingers

Winger is a very important position in the modern game because they do ridiculous amounts of work

But wingers are also pretty replaceable because it's a position that is purely athletic. We should be churning more wingers through imo. I bet to'o is on a pretty favourable deal for Penrith.

Rapana is a pretty strong runner but is aging and we don't have that power/speed combo going on like Penrith do
By contrast Charlie Staines has been fairly average on the opposite side for them. I'm sure Panthers fans were expecting more from him given what he showed in previous cameos.

Both emerging talents and both signed to extensions last year with Mansour being set free.
I like that comment to contextualise Croker's woes even further...

Staines has been "average", and yet has approximately 1.5 tackle breaks per game.

Croker has 0.5.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

Looks like the Try Cause stat is no longer being used as the benchmark to judge Croker. :lol:
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by BadnMean »

Northern Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:23 am Looks like the Try Cause stat is no longer being used as the benchmark to judge Croker. :lol:
I don't think he's going that good in that stat either. Maybe not in the worst 6 but maybe bottom 3rd? Maybe middle of the pack?

Scott's is awful but I think the ribs game taken into account he's probably on par with Croker in the mediocre stakes.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Northern Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:23 am Looks like the Try Cause stat is no longer being used as the benchmark to judge Croker. :lol:
I don't think it matters which stats are cherry picked mate. I picked but one; a stat which I think is pretty handy in measuring the attacking threat level of a centre in today's game.

I daresay you'd be hard press to gather up a dossier of stats for Croker which point to anything other than a player producing well below the output of a decent FG centre, let alone one of our most highly paid players.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

BadnMean wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:35 am
Northern Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:23 am Looks like the Try Cause stat is no longer being used as the benchmark to judge Croker. :lol:
I don't think he's going that good in that stat either. Maybe not in the worst 6 but maybe bottom 3rd? Maybe middle of the pack?

Scott's is awful but I think the ribs game taken into account he's probably on par with Croker in the mediocre stakes.
Try Cause is a garbage stat regardless. People jumped on it previously because it was a convenient one that made Croker look bad at one point in time. There was one particular poster who banged on about it constantly. Since been banned and likely to have resurfaced under a different user name.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

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Mickey_Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:36 am
Northern Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:23 am Looks like the Try Cause stat is no longer being used as the benchmark to judge Croker. :lol:
I don't think it matters which stats are cherry picked mate. I picked but one; a stat which I think is pretty handy in measuring the attacking threat level of a centre in today's game.

I daresay you'd be hard press to gather up a dossier of stats for Croker which point to anything other than a player producing well below the output of a decent FG centre, let alone one of our most highly paid players.
Croker's stats are poor across the board this season. No question. That's why he's under pressure.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by greeneyed »

These are the try cause stats for the Raiders and it’s a pretty fair reflection on how the right side defence is going: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... =tryCauses
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Botman »

Mickey_Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:36 am
Northern Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:23 am Looks like the Try Cause stat is no longer being used as the benchmark to judge Croker. :lol:
I don't think it matters which stats are cherry picked mate. I picked but one; a stat which I think is pretty handy in measuring the attacking threat level of a centre in today's game.
The stat you highlighted is one that even at Croker's peak, he would not have performed well in.
He's never been a tackle breaker, it hasn't stopped him being an effective attacking weapon for most of his career.

I would bet his per game tackle break statistics from this season are not wildly different from say his 2016 season. It's a poor choice to measure his performance imo. Which to be clear is not to say i think he's performing well.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by GreenMachine »

Individual stats (while they tell a story) are less relevant in team sports.
I'd happily keep Croker on board if we were playing like the Pamfers right now...
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Botman wrote: April 23, 2021, 11:23 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:36 am
Northern Raider wrote: April 23, 2021, 10:23 am Looks like the Try Cause stat is no longer being used as the benchmark to judge Croker. :lol:
I don't think it matters which stats are cherry picked mate. I picked but one; a stat which I think is pretty handy in measuring the attacking threat level of a centre in today's game.
The stat you highlighted is one that even at Croker's peak, he would not have performed well in.
He's never been a tackle breaker, it hasn't stopped him being an effective attacking weapon for most of his career.

I would bet his per game tackle break statistics from this season are not wildly different from say his 2016 season. It's a poor choice to measure his performance imo.
You know what, I get what you're saying, but (putting aside my comment about any selective cherry picking yielding the same conclusion) why is it a poor choice to measure performance?

Think back to say, Shaun Fensom. Even in his waning days you could compile a list of stats which portrayed him favourably. And yet, the eye test pretty much forced you to realise the game had passed him by and the game had changed to an extent that a defensive workhorse but ineffectual attacker wasn't what successful NRL teams needed from a lock forward anymore.

In those waning days I don't think it was helpful to draw upon those redemptive qualities because it didn't add the same value to a team as it once did.

Similarly, I think a modern NRL centre is athletic, bustling and tackle busting. Further, they are usually on the lower end of the pay scale, probably reflecting the shift away from playmaking responsibility and general importance in the make up of a team.

So I think obsolescence brings the metric back into relevance.

I would also add that the above is predicated on a player providing redemptive, yet arguably obsolete qualities. I don't even know how many redemptive qualities Croker is actually bringing at present, aside from decent goal kicking.
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