Jarrod Croker
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Again, im not trying to argue for Croker performing well, or in defence of him at all. Just a remark about that specific measure
IMO, it's a poor choice of measure as it relates to Croker because not being able to break tackles is not why Croker is performing poorly.
He's never been able to break tackles consistently. Not when he was rookie, not in his prime and not now. In spite of this, from his debut season until 2020, he was an effective attacking player. He's no longer appearing to be an effective attacking player and it has IMO, little if anything to do with his inability to break tackles because that was simply never an arrow he had in the quiver.
Like i said, at the peak of his powers, when he was a very good attacking threat as a centre, I don't think his tackle breaks would be meaningfully different.
I think the modern NRL centre is tending to be as you say, an athletic, bustling tackle breaker. But that's been that way for about 10 years now, that's nothing new, and it's also just not who Croker is or ever was. And as he and others have showed, there is room for other styles of centre. I dont disagree with you about the eye test telling us things about Croker and his game, and the call back to Fensom is fair.
Things i think are better indicators for Croker's decline would be line breaks, which are down over the last 18 months. He simply isn't able to beat anyone for speed anymore and his footwork is slow.
Running metres and PTB speed, which i have to imagine are down. Whilst he was never a huge metres guy, what he was good at was taking a hit up, getting the 7-8 metres available, getting to his stomach and getting a quick PTB... now he's just getting monstered almost every time and driven backwards.
I would look at his ball playing stats like offloads and assists. I think he's always possessed a good late offload/tap on/flick ball, and quick accurate hands... asfknaka and i discussed that earlier, but there is reason to think these skills are waning and the stats back that up.
To me tackle breaks for Croker is a stat as useful as kicking metres for Papalii... just not a stat that tells me anything about how the player is performing relative to his peak
IMO, it's a poor choice of measure as it relates to Croker because not being able to break tackles is not why Croker is performing poorly.
He's never been able to break tackles consistently. Not when he was rookie, not in his prime and not now. In spite of this, from his debut season until 2020, he was an effective attacking player. He's no longer appearing to be an effective attacking player and it has IMO, little if anything to do with his inability to break tackles because that was simply never an arrow he had in the quiver.
Like i said, at the peak of his powers, when he was a very good attacking threat as a centre, I don't think his tackle breaks would be meaningfully different.
I think the modern NRL centre is tending to be as you say, an athletic, bustling tackle breaker. But that's been that way for about 10 years now, that's nothing new, and it's also just not who Croker is or ever was. And as he and others have showed, there is room for other styles of centre. I dont disagree with you about the eye test telling us things about Croker and his game, and the call back to Fensom is fair.
Things i think are better indicators for Croker's decline would be line breaks, which are down over the last 18 months. He simply isn't able to beat anyone for speed anymore and his footwork is slow.
Running metres and PTB speed, which i have to imagine are down. Whilst he was never a huge metres guy, what he was good at was taking a hit up, getting the 7-8 metres available, getting to his stomach and getting a quick PTB... now he's just getting monstered almost every time and driven backwards.
I would look at his ball playing stats like offloads and assists. I think he's always possessed a good late offload/tap on/flick ball, and quick accurate hands... asfknaka and i discussed that earlier, but there is reason to think these skills are waning and the stats back that up.
To me tackle breaks for Croker is a stat as useful as kicking metres for Papalii... just not a stat that tells me anything about how the player is performing relative to his peak
Re: Jarrod Croker
tbh I agree with the above and in general I am not a huge fan of tackle breaks as a measure of success.
Rapana used to rate very highly on this for garbage runs going sideways.
Better stats for me is line breaks and line break assists, or average metres per carry.
Rapana used to rate very highly on this for garbage runs going sideways.
Better stats for me is line breaks and line break assists, or average metres per carry.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Rapana is still rating highly on the stat. He's currently equal 5th in the NRL along with Cotric.papabear wrote: ↑April 23, 2021, 1:23 pm tbh I agree with the above and in general I am not a huge fan of tackle breaks as a measure of success.
Rapana used to rate very highly on this for garbage runs going sideways.
Better stats for me is line breaks and line break assists, or average metres per carry.
Tackle breaks are important though not all tackle breaks are equal.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Breaking the line is so much more important then running into a guy two metres away at a different angle so you can break a tackler or get tackle two metres later.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Regardless, Crocker is doing none of these things and has not done so in a very long time.papabear wrote:Breaking the line is so much more important then running into a guy two metres away at a different angle so you can break a tackler or get tackle two metres later.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Rick wrote: ↑April 23, 2021, 5:45 pmRegardless, Crocker is doing none of these things and has not done so in a very long time.papabear wrote:Breaking the line is so much more important then running into a guy two metres away at a different angle so you can break a tackler or get tackle two metres later.
What are Croker post contact meters gained on an average over the last 10 yrs, I think that would be a fair measure
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Thanks for the stats GE. Yet another reason to get Rapa over on the right where he belongs. He has played most of his career on the right wing and can read the play far better BS.greeneyed wrote: ↑April 23, 2021, 11:07 am These are the try cause stats for the Raiders and it’s a pretty fair reflection on how the right side defence is going: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... =tryCauses
Outside backs have become power runners. Even those who are not tall like To'o are difficult to tackle and strong. The other type are jumpers and quick, leaping for targeted bombs on the opposition line. We have Kris and Timoko and Rapa in the power runner category but they are not together in the one side. Croker is good at chasing attacking bombs but we seem to have put that tactic away since he was run off the ball so many times. I say change the location of the attacking bomb. There is no reason why he cannot move to the center of the field and the bombs are directed at the opposition goal posts. Front rowers don't have the blocking subtlety of outside backs and I think he may do well there.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
$600k/year for 4 years honestly... combined with the Scott failure could be Sticky's undoing
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Just sad watching his demise... Sad and embarrassing. Really starting to tarnish a solid career.
Re: Jarrod Croker
It's over, I'm on the wagon.
It's indefensible now
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It's indefensible now
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Poor bloke was almost crying in the post match interview.
I am saying this seriously: the morale of the team is being damaged by having its worst player as captain. A captain cannot be vocal and assertive when they can’t back it up with actions.
I am saying this seriously: the morale of the team is being damaged by having its worst player as captain. A captain cannot be vocal and assertive when they can’t back it up with actions.
Up The Milk
Re: Jarrod Croker
Wheel out the double-barrelled cannon...
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Someone pass his mobile number to Trent Merrin, so they can chat about some of “these signs”...
Re: Jarrod Croker
Starting to look like he's definitely done for good now, beyond any doubt. Sticky has a tough decision to make, but with Simonsson available again he needs to do it.
Though it won't fix the problem we have by itself, you cannot have a player playing like this in your side, no matter who they are.
Though it won't fix the problem we have by itself, you cannot have a player playing like this in your side, no matter who they are.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
hit the nail on the head. What message is this sending everyone picking him week after week.Mickey_Raider wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 9:47 pm Poor bloke was almost crying in the post match interview.
I am saying this seriously: the morale of the team is being damaged by having its worst player as captain. A captain cannot be vocal and assertive when they can’t back it up with actions.
Re: Jarrod Croker
It's depressing, right now Croker is looking like a man who has come to a similar conclusion to this thread. If he believes it, then I can't see how he can come back from that.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Our whole backline needs reconstruction surgery...afgtnk wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 9:52 pm Starting to look like he's definitely done for good now, beyond any doubt. Sticky has a tough decision to make, but with Simonsson available again he needs to do it.
Though it won't fix the problem we have by itself, you cannot have a player playing like this in your side, no matter who they are.
Look at our yardage out of our own end..embarrassing.
We don’t have anything to compete with the top sides...I’d fathom a guess that Brian To’o had more run meters than our whole backline.
You can’t dominate games without that important detail.
Sure you might stay in the fight longer, but you can’t dominate.
Re: Jarrod Croker
For the first and only time this season I walked out of the ground tonight glad to not be doing GH live because I knew this would be the main talking point and it is so so sad.
Ricky is trying to send a message at the moment because he feels not all players are giving all the can. Jarrod is no way in this boat, if anything he is trying too hard, but the coaches have a massive decision to make.
Ricky is trying to send a message at the moment because he feels not all players are giving all the can. Jarrod is no way in this boat, if anything he is trying too hard, but the coaches have a massive decision to make.
Re: Jarrod Croker
He will be in the side next week, and the week after that, regardless of how he performs. Like someone said, he’s ‘Ricky’s guy’, don’t underestimate Ricky’s loyalty to his favourite players.
Re: Jarrod Croker
He is very close to Ricky. I think he should be. He has been a very loyal captain over many years. He probably wasn’t Ricky’s first choice when he came here (after Campo retired). I think Ricky wanted Sia as captain but as a virtual unknown coming back from England I think the club suggested otherwise.
But sadly Jarrod is really really struggling.
It doesn’t have to be the end though. Perhaps a couple of weeks out is what he needs. The shoulder-injury at the end probably gives a reason to be honest.
Far more than the Hodgo’s injury being an excuse in my opinion.
Re: Jarrod Croker
There is no doubt the other factor about Jarrod is his goal kicking I am not convinced by George Williams even if he did have a good %.
I could see George Williams having a night like Townsend did against us. In retrospect, that doesn’t happen and our season is nearly over.
I could see George Williams having a night like Townsend did against us. In retrospect, that doesn’t happen and our season is nearly over.
Re: Jarrod Croker
No, please don’t give us false hope. Croker is toast. He was toast as soon as Rapana and BJ departed, and even more so since Cotric left. He simply lacks the physical capabilities (strength, speed, power) to affect the game in a positive way. He will always remain a solidly skilled player but micro skills, being a stand up guy and the coaches pet don’t suffice in the modern game.Bay53 wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:31 pmHe is very close to Ricky. I think he should be. He has been a very loyal captain over many years. He probably wasn’t Ricky’s first choice when he came here (after Campo retired). I think Ricky wanted Sia as captain but as a virtual unknown coming back from England I think the club suggested otherwise.
But sadly Jarrod is really really struggling.
It doesn’t have to be the end though. Perhaps a couple of weeks out is what he needs. The shoulder-injury at the end probably gives a reason to be honest.
Far more than the Hodgo’s injury being an excuse in my opinion.
We could possibly scrape the top 8 with Croker but we will never win a Premiership. We lose nothing by dropping him reserves, at the very least we give a young gun like Timoko a chance to shine at the highest level. Croker is the that old beige suite from the late 70s you have in your wardrobe, fun for nostalgia but never worn.
There’s no point sugarcoating it, Stuart needs to grow a pair and dump his heinie to reserves.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Just ridiculous having Seb Kris completely being out of position (and exposed) to accommodate Croker at centre. If Croker must always be at left centre then Kris should be in reserve grade. The problem with that is Stuart knows the optics.
Tough call on Croker surely needs to be made now.
Tough call on Croker surely needs to be made now.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
It’s time for the coach>captain chat.
Stick to dust off the overhead projector, we all know he bought it with him.
To Stick..
Make the calls coach. Do what’s right.
Love PJ
Stick to dust off the overhead projector, we all know he bought it with him.
To Stick..
Make the calls coach. Do what’s right.
Love PJ
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Re: Jarrod Croker
This is so sad. I love Crokes but can't defend him anymore.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
PJ, you have a direct line to the coach don’t you? Time to make the call-PJ- wrote:It’s time for the coach>captain chat.
Stick to dust off the overhead projector, we all know he bought it with him.
To Stick..
Make the calls coach. Do what’s right.
Love PJ ️
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Re: Jarrod Croker
You want to discuss what is impacting team morale?
It’s seeing the Cadbury’s Favourites get selected every weekend despite how crappy they’re performing.
How do you think the playing group feel when Lui, Soliola, Papalli and Tapine all cop the axe for “ underperforming” but Croker doesn’t...
Think about that for a minute.
It’s seeing the Cadbury’s Favourites get selected every weekend despite how crappy they’re performing.
How do you think the playing group feel when Lui, Soliola, Papalli and Tapine all cop the axe for “ underperforming” but Croker doesn’t...
Think about that for a minute.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
From the vision I saw of Croker last night post game he knows there’s a bullet with his name on it..
The #3 jersey has been his since 2009.
But unfortunately I can’t see this continuing.
The #3 jersey has been his since 2009.
But unfortunately I can’t see this continuing.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
his highlights reel would be epic but time has raced up on him-PJ- wrote:From the vision I saw of Croker last night post game he knows there’s a bullet with his name on it..
The #3 jersey has been his since 2009.
But unfortunately I can’t see this continuing.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
I’m a fan of Croker as well boney.bonehead wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 7:46 amhis highlights reel would be epic but time has raced up on him-PJ- wrote:From the vision I saw of Croker last night post game he knows there’s a bullet with his name on it..
The #3 jersey has been his since 2009.
But unfortunately I can’t see this continuing.
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It’s very sad watching at the mo.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
133 tries, at his peak you just knew he'd score from a half chance.
Deadly kick target, I remember a few live games you'd see the defending escorts not set and Croker make them pay.
Even last night Rapana's tries were because Feldt was double stacking Croker
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Deadly kick target, I remember a few live games you'd see the defending escorts not set and Croker make them pay.
Even last night Rapana's tries were because Feldt was double stacking Croker
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Re: Jarrod Croker
That decoy line. Other teams still know that if they don't cover him they will pay.
Just one more week. Please.
Because to drop him without giving him one last game at home would be too cruel for words. Don't let his last game be away. Please.
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I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Is it a game plan to spread the ball wider quicker? The last couple of weeks there seems to be a lot of ball that cuts Croker out. It would typically go through the hands with a quick draw and pass by him but it seems around half the time they just cut him out.
I love the guy and he has been my favourite player since the under 20s GF. I hope he can make it back to FG standard. But I have a feeling that the shot of him at towards to end of the game holding his shoulder may be the reason Ricky states in the press conference this week. "Jarrod has a shoulder issue and will need to rest it for a week or two or conversely four or five weeks".
I love the guy and he has been my favourite player since the under 20s GF. I hope he can make it back to FG standard. But I have a feeling that the shot of him at towards to end of the game holding his shoulder may be the reason Ricky states in the press conference this week. "Jarrod has a shoulder issue and will need to rest it for a week or two or conversely four or five weeks".
Re: Jarrod Croker
When you are quoting his decoy running as his highlight, as you have multiple times, then you know he is cooked as a player. Anyone can “run those lines”.raiderskater wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 8:52 amThat decoy line. Other teams still know that if they don't cover him they will pay.
Just one more week. Please.
Because to drop him without giving him one last game at home would be too cruel for words. Don't let his last game be away. Please.
Other teams would likely know that even if he were to get the ball and go through the gap, given his lack of pace they’d be able to turn and pull him down within 10m. There would be zero sleep being lost by opposing coaches
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Maybe he can blow the horn at the next home game?raiderskater wrote: ↑April 25, 2021, 8:52 amThat decoy line. Other teams still know that if they don't cover him they will pay.
Just one more week. Please.
Because to drop him without giving him one last game at home would be too cruel for words. Don't let his last game be away. Please.