Jarrod Croker

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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

One of the most infuriating things is that certain sections of the Raiders commentariat/fanbase (all of whom I have no doubt have personal connections with the club and/or Croker) trying to paint the criticisms of him as just the deluded ramblings of an irrational mob.

I reckon in the NRL today only a very thin reserve of political capital exists or should exist for past service. Croker should understandably understandably receive more latitude than, say, Curtis Scott because of his past service.

But that really should be the extent of it. If you aren't making positive contributions to the team and visibly holding us back, then there shouldn't be a place for you.

No one is "hating". Everyone likes him as a great bloke and clubman. But this is a professional league and it requires objectivity and professionalism. And if that means that Croker gets a tap on the should 1 year into a 4 year contract, so be it.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

Just like Morgan, they would need to start leaving Croker out of games. You can’t medically retired somebody who plays each week.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by manbearpig »

I hate that it's come to this, as I've enjoyed watching Croker since his debut.

But sadly the time has come.

Its Also time up for simmonson, soliola, Lui, havilli and rapana.

None of that felt good to write, and I'm glad that job is someone else's to make.

Our window... Has gone. And that is as equally upsetting.

So close.... So ****** close.
Im just, bicking back being bool
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Botman »

Yeah I don’t think anyone is suggesting this would be quick or easy

There is a lot that goes into it, and I wouldn’t even expect the conversation to happen between player and club until the off season
So we’re taking 12-18 months, not next week

All I am saying is that if both parties agree that medical retirement is the best thing option, then I have no reason to believe we couldn’t make that happen
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Raiders_Pat »

I realise this will never happen but if we were happy to fork out $100-200k/year of Croker's contract, would there be a club willing to roll the dice on him?
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

Mickey_Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 12:40 pm One of the most infuriating things is that certain sections of the Raiders commentariat/fanbase (all of whom I have no doubt have personal connections with the club and/or Croker) trying to paint the criticisms of him as just the deluded ramblings of an irrational mob.

I reckon in the NRL today only a very thin reserve of political capital exists or should exist for past service. Croker should understandably understandably receive more latitude than, say, Curtis Scott because of his past service.

But that really should be the extent of it. If you aren't making positive contributions to the team and visibly holding us back, then there shouldn't be a place for you.

No one is "hating". Everyone likes him as a great bloke and clubman. But this is a professional league and it requires objectivity and professionalism. And if that means that Croker gets a tap on the should 1 year into a 4 year contract, so be it.
Some of past criticisms were deluded ramblings of an irrational mob (albeit a relatively small mob). This year Croker has actually lived up to those criticisms and the mob has grown to the large majority. This doesn't make previous criticisms accurate.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Botman »

Na if he’s to leave the club and play on, it’s going to be in the ESL I would think
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by 1992 »

Even if his form picks up thete is no way he is gonna make it to 2024.
I give Biden a better chance..
WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT'S BEEN
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Northern Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 12:51 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 12:40 pm One of the most infuriating things is that certain sections of the Raiders commentariat/fanbase (all of whom I have no doubt have personal connections with the club and/or Croker) trying to paint the criticisms of him as just the deluded ramblings of an irrational mob.

I reckon in the NRL today only a very thin reserve of political capital exists or should exist for past service. Croker should understandably understandably receive more latitude than, say, Curtis Scott because of his past service.

But that really should be the extent of it. If you aren't making positive contributions to the team and visibly holding us back, then there shouldn't be a place for you.

No one is "hating". Everyone likes him as a great bloke and clubman. But this is a professional league and it requires objectivity and professionalism. And if that means that Croker gets a tap on the should 1 year into a 4 year contract, so be it.
Some of past criticisms were deluded ramblings of an irrational mob (albeit a relatively small mob). This year Croker has actually lived up to those criticisms and the mob has grown to the large majority. This doesn't make previous criticisms accurate.
Yeah sure, that is fair.

However I am talking about very recent commentary based on this year, not previous comments based on previous years.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by The Nickman »

Northern Raider wrote:
Mickey_Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 12:40 pm One of the most infuriating things is that certain sections of the Raiders commentariat/fanbase (all of whom I have no doubt have personal connections with the club and/or Croker) trying to paint the criticisms of him as just the deluded ramblings of an irrational mob.

I reckon in the NRL today only a very thin reserve of political capital exists or should exist for past service. Croker should understandably understandably receive more latitude than, say, Curtis Scott because of his past service.

But that really should be the extent of it. If you aren't making positive contributions to the team and visibly holding us back, then there shouldn't be a place for you.

No one is "hating". Everyone likes him as a great bloke and clubman. But this is a professional league and it requires objectivity and professionalism. And if that means that Croker gets a tap on the should 1 year into a 4 year contract, so be it.
Some of past criticisms were deluded ramblings of an irrational mob (albeit a relatively small mob). This year Croker has actually lived up to those criticisms and the mob has grown to the large majority. This doesn't make previous criticisms accurate.
Absolutely nailed it. And makes it hard to appreciate the opinions of those who originally formed the mob, just those who are currently calling it as they see it.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by gangrenous »

Even this year M_R!

Dude has played 4 games back from injury, and there’s a friggin huge human element of being club captain, club stalwart, fan favourite.

You don’t just drop people like that after 1 or 2 poor games to start the season. Concerns, fine. But the vitriol and calls for immediate termination just showed no understanding of how the world works.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by The Nickman »

gangrenous wrote:Even this year M_R!

Dude has played 4 games back from injury, and there’s a friggin huge human element of being club captain, club stalwart, fan favourite.

You don’t just drop people like that after 1 or 2 poor games to start the season. Concerns, fine. But the vitriol and calls for immediate termination just showed no understanding of how the world works.
I would honestly love to see him given a stint in NSW Cup and putting the onus entirely on him to force his way back, but certainly wouldn’t rule him out forever.

But I understand politically that this might not be something the coach wants to do, but if handled correctly, it should be achievable.

It all starts with a good honest discussion between coach and player.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by SimplyThePest »

This is a subject that brings out a lot of emotion on both sides. Personally, I think it was a real clanger by the club to have signed a player of his age and attributes to the contract it did, especially given the way the game has changed. Maybe some of that $ should have been diverted to Nic Cotric, a player of good age with attributes we sorely need right now.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Mickey_Raider »

gangrenous wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:08 pm Even this year M_R!

Dude has played 4 games back from injury, and there’s a friggin huge human element of being club captain, club stalwart, fan favourite.

You don’t just drop people like that after 1 or 2 poor games to start the season. Concerns, fine. But the vitriol and calls for immediate termination just showed no understanding of how the world works.
Maybe people have varying degrees of latitude they are willing to accept in regards to the sentiment factor.

But Do you accept that those decisions have real potential/likely consequences of causing us to fail on certain goals, whether it be top 4/6/8/finals?

I genuinely fear that a bit of misplaced/overstayed sentiment is what could very legitimately decide whether this year is wasted or is something resembling success.
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Jarrod Croker

Post by gangrenous »

It’s not just sentimentality though. That’s incredibly belittling.

When was the last time you fired someone at your work who was a long time employee and well respected, well loved and was returning to work from an injury sustained at work?

These are **** people! You can’t just switch out players like Croker on the basis of a couple of games and expect your team not to disintegrate through employee unrest. This isn’t **** SuperCoach where you switch them out and everything is sweet.

A big part of why Ricky has success as a coach is he does convince players to put their body and soul into the team. To make that work you can’t cast players to the scrap heap the second their output might be slightly exceeded by someone else for a period. The players who have earned it, you’ve got to let them properly fail.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

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SimplyThePest wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:22 pm This is a subject that brings out a lot of emotion on both sides. Personally, I think it was a real clanger by the club to have signed a player of his age and attributes to the contract it did, especially given the way the game has changed. Maybe some of that $ should have been diverted to Nic Cotric, a player of good age with attributes we sorely need right now.
It was an inexplicable piece of business to make him one of the highest paid outside backs in the game and take him through to his 33rd or 34th birthday. The mind boggles what they were thinking with little to no competition from other clubs to essentially let him write his own cheque and contract terms. Currently our biggest roster problem in my opinion, similar to the back end of Campo's 5 year deal when his knee problems left him a shadow of his former self but still on an elite salary.

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Re: Jarrod Croker

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Another week passes an still getting monstered.
This place is woke.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

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gangrenous wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:08 pm Even this year M_R!

Dude has played 4 games back from injury, and there’s a friggin huge human element of being club captain, club stalwart, fan favourite.

You don’t just drop people like that after 1 or 2 poor games to start the season. Concerns, fine. But the vitriol and calls for immediate termination just showed no understanding of how the world works.
Its not just 1 or 2 poor games, he stank last season as well. He is just incredibly off the pace and it clearly isn’t a just form issue. It’s not a lack of match fitness or confidence, his lack of speed, mobility and strength are permanent and terminal.

We can’t hide his flaws with BJ and Cotric anymore, he has no one to piggyback off and his performances are directly influencing our results. No is one calling for “immediate termination”, he has a contract, albeit a stupid one, which should to honoured. He’s not the enemy, he’s done nothing wrong, and the ball isn’t his court, it’s firmly in Ricky’s hands to drop the player in the most compassionate, honourable way possible, for the greater good of the team, and deal with the damage whatever it is.

No single player, captain, coach or employee, no matter how esteemed, is above the greater good of the team.
Last edited by rayden83 on April 18, 2021, 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by rayden83 »

Andymachine wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:51 pm
SimplyThePest wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:22 pm This is a subject that brings out a lot of emotion on both sides. Personally, I think it was a real clanger by the club to have signed a player of his age and attributes to the contract it did, especially given the way the game has changed. Maybe some of that $ should have been diverted to Nic Cotric, a player of good age with attributes we sorely need right now.
It was an inexplicable piece of business to make him one of the highest paid outside backs in the game and take him through to his 33rd or 34th birthday. The mind boggles what they were thinking with little to no competition from other clubs to essentially let him write his own cheque and contract terms. Currently our biggest roster problem in my opinion, similar to the back end of Campo's 5 year deal when his knee problems left him a shadow of his former self but still on an elite salary.
Is there any chance that his contract contained a performance clause or something, to the effect of that he if he didn’t play x number of games in y season, or score z number of tries, his remaining years of his contract could he revoked?

Any chance? :doubt:
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Re: Jarrod Croker

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Dropping him to reserve grade is effectively termination. If everything you say is true, he isn’t coming back.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

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gangrenous wrote:Dropping him to reserve grade is effectively termination. If everything you say is true, he isn’t coming back.
It’s shouldn’t be though, players should be able to be dropped to reserves with the onus placed on them to return to form.

It’s the same as Milford, his dropping to reserves shouldn’t be the end of his broncos career, even though many are viewing it as such.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Andymachine »

rayden83 wrote: April 18, 2021, 2:22 pm
Andymachine wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:51 pm
SimplyThePest wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:22 pm This is a subject that brings out a lot of emotion on both sides. Personally, I think it was a real clanger by the club to have signed a player of his age and attributes to the contract it did, especially given the way the game has changed. Maybe some of that $ should have been diverted to Nic Cotric, a player of good age with attributes we sorely need right now.
It was an inexplicable piece of business to make him one of the highest paid outside backs in the game and take him through to his 33rd or 34th birthday. The mind boggles what they were thinking with little to no competition from other clubs to essentially let him write his own cheque and contract terms. Currently our biggest roster problem in my opinion, similar to the back end of Campo's 5 year deal when his knee problems left him a shadow of his former self but still on an elite salary.
Is there any chance that his contract contained a performance clause or something, to the effect of that he if he didn’t play x number of games in y season, or score z number of tries, his remaining years of his contract could he revoked?

Any chance? :doubt:
I would be shocked if Jarrod wrote something like that in :roflmao

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Re: Jarrod Croker

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gangrenous wrote:It’s not just sentimentality though. That’s incredibly belittling.

When was the last time you fired someone at your work who was a long time employee and well respected, well loved and was returning to work from an injury sustained at work?
Well considering thats illegal unless it's proven they're unfit for duty, never

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Re: Jarrod Croker

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There you go.

QED It’s illegal to drop Croker
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by lomax »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :roflmao
1992 wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:03 pm Even if his form picks up thete is no way he is gonna make it to 2024.
I give Biden a better chance..
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Rickmando »

Northern Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 12:51 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 12:40 pm One of the most infuriating things is that certain sections of the Raiders commentariat/fanbase (all of whom I have no doubt have personal connections with the club and/or Croker) trying to paint the criticisms of him as just the deluded ramblings of an irrational mob.

I reckon in the NRL today only a very thin reserve of political capital exists or should exist for past service. Croker should understandably understandably receive more latitude than, say, Curtis Scott because of his past service.

But that really should be the extent of it. If you aren't making positive contributions to the team and visibly holding us back, then there shouldn't be a place for you.

No one is "hating". Everyone likes him as a great bloke and clubman. But this is a professional league and it requires objectivity and professionalism. And if that means that Croker gets a tap on the should 1 year into a 4 year contract, so be it.
Some of past criticisms were deluded ramblings of an irrational mob (albeit a relatively small mob). This year Croker has actually lived up to those criticisms and the mob has grown to the large majority. This doesn't make previous criticisms accurate.
Long time critic here. I have never taken any pleasure in criticising him, and have never criticised him for anything other than his footballing ability.

I never posted “deluded ramblings”, although anyone who has any kind of opinion that is against the grain or contrary to the cheerleading groupthink is always dismissed as such.

My issue with him is that, over the course of a 12 year career, he was always a poor, well below average defender - and unlike others I didn’t believe what he gave us in other departments (attack/goal kicking/ leadership/good bloke) made up for it. People would increasingly use more abstract arguments to try and explain this away. Defence is literally half of the game and Croker has been a negative in this area the whole time.

He also demonstrated very little improvement in his defence with years of experience in the league and growth in both physical and mental capacity. This was always an alarm bell.

Now, what has been sown is being reaped - the recent criticisms are mainly of his prowess with the ball in hand, which has irrefutably gone downhill.

It’s unfair to dismiss any criticism prior to the creation of this thread as deluded (and anything subsequent to it to be appropriate). Those of you only coming to Jesus now are seeing what critics like me have been seeing for a number of years... that his overall (on field) performance does not justify his salary, his contract extension, or his selection in the side ahead of younger players with greater upside.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by The Nickman »

Cheerleading groupthink?? You mean... a supporters’ forum?
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

Ok so criticisms are a legitimate opinion but if you disagree it's cheerleading groupthink.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

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Northern Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 3:44 pm Ok so criticisms are a legitimate opinion but if you disagree it's cheerleading groupthink.
Nice try. You are one of the worst offenders
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Rickmando »

The Nickman wrote: April 18, 2021, 3:33 pm Cheerleading groupthink?? You mean... a supporters’ forum?
We can all be supporters without having to agree. That’s lost on a lot of people
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Northern Raider »

Rickmando wrote: April 18, 2021, 3:53 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 18, 2021, 3:44 pm Ok so criticisms are a legitimate opinion but if you disagree it's cheerleading groupthink.
Nice try. You are one of the worst offenders
If being a cheerleading groupthinker means not being a negative whiner then I'm happy to accept it.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

The Nickman wrote: April 18, 2021, 3:33 pm Cheerleading groupthink?? You mean... a supporters’ forum?
Supporters forum?

More like bag out all the players forum
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by The Nickman »

afgtnk wrote:
The Nickman wrote: April 18, 2021, 3:33 pm Cheerleading groupthink?? You mean... a supporters’ forum?
Supporters forum?

More like bag out all the players forum
Hahaha what are the odds that we’ll both use this line in the same day, old friend?
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Re: Jarrod Croker

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gangrenous wrote: April 18, 2021, 1:43 pm It’s not just sentimentality though. That’s incredibly belittling.

When was the last time you fired someone at your work who was a long time employee and well respected, well loved and was returning to work from an injury sustained at work?

These are **** people! You can’t just switch out players like Croker on the basis of a couple of games and expect your team not to disintegrate through employee unrest. This isn’t **** SuperCoach where you switch them out and everything is sweet.

A big part of why Ricky has success as a coach is he does convince players to put their body and soul into the team. To make that work you can’t cast players to the scrap heap the second their output might be slightly exceeded by someone else for a period. The players who have earned it, you’ve got to let them properly fail.
His form was down last year

The reality though is that the NRL isn't an ordinary work place. It's a cut throat sport with a salary cap in place. Teams have to make tough calls on long serving players all the time. The nature of the beast means loyalty only goes so far.

Croker will have a lot of rope relative to most players but ultimately he is apparently taking up 6% of the cap. Could we get more value out of another centre taking up less cap ? That's the type of question the club needs to ask. South's are playing hardball with Reynolds based on the same logic. He is a long serving, well respected and loved by the fanbase too but they don't want to be tied down with an aging player eating up cap.

I think his contract was bad business that could potentially be a messy situation in 12 months
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

His contract is IMO one of the most atrocious bits of business we've done in a very long time.

For a club that's been quite ruthless and seemingly frugal since Sticky took the reigns, they've totally dropped the ball and let sentimentality get in the way of this one. The question now is how long does the blur of sentiment continue to cloud their judgement.
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