Jarrod Croker

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Seiffert82
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Seiffert82 »

I thought Croker was pretty good in 2019. He was one of our best players in the 2019 Grand Final.

Last season wasn't great.

I'm looking forward to seeing how he goes this year.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Raider Azz »

People seem to have forgotten he played most of the back end of last year injured. That would have considerably affected his performance. Fully healthy he will be much more effective.

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Re: End of Croker?

Post by julian87 »

Disregarding the culture and captaincy discussion I’m of the option he waltzes straight into the side on merit.

He’s a skillful player who takes the right option more often than not imo. Considering the team has 2 running five-eighths in the halves they need every advantage they can get. George Williams’ biggest asset is his short attacking kicking game. Jarrod Croker is the best in field kick chase target in the NRL and has been for some time. There have been several grabbers in the first two games that should have been attacking plays but because Croker’s not there they become nothing but repeat set plays. Repeat sets are nice but rather pointless if you’re not scoring any time thereafter.

He’s a top 3 NRL wide goal kicker which don’t grow on trees. Considering there’s not another NRL standard one in the squad that alone makes him an automatic selection.

His work from our own end is perennially under rated. He’s not huge and many fans don’t rate what doesn’t look flash. They want 150m worth of tackle breaks from someone like Oates, Mansour or Ferguson. Croker’s ability here to make a pretty consistent 8+ meters, find his belly for a quick play the ball and drawing a plethora of penalties (now restarts) over a season doing this also can’t be overlooked. His ability to pass means he scores a lot of tries himself on the outside shoulder in attack as well as plenty of wingers stay out and under rated his ability to crash over. If they come up he passes and the winger scores.

His defense is good enough. There might still be one or two try causing mistakes there a season. But that’s being a modern day centre.

He covers wing in the case of injury. And if Whitehead was out or not able to shift I’d say he’d be #2 on the list as a makeshift half if things went pear too.

Kris and Scott have had 2 strong games. Yep. But it’s 2 games. 2 games against ordinary sides.

My very short take is this; if everyone is so worried about the selection at centre there are problems elsewhere. It’s the least important position in rugby league now (probably not defensively) but given their role all round I think that’s unquestionable. Justin Olam and Brenko Lee are the current premiership winning centres for crying out loud.

The only thing surrounding this that should be discussed is what we’re spending cap wise at centre. But that’s a future thing given how deep and well rounded the squad is currently.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Botman »

afgtnk wrote: March 22, 2021, 11:19 pm Botman and co. make the argument that you can't cut your captain like that for the message it sends, which I get, but you also can't keep deadweight in it for too long either, especially when you've got capable players ready to take the spot. That sends all kinds of wrong messages. The fact of the matter is that Jarrod Croker is not good enough or important enough to keep his place in the side no matter how he plays.

That being said, he is one of our captains, one of our most experienced players, and most important to me, our main goalkicker. I value that above most at present, and although George is showing some decent signs, I'm not sure if he'd be capable of averaging much above 70% in the medium to long term. For a team like ours that now likes to really grind, those extra two points really matter and possibly outweigh the benefit any replacement of his can bring.

IMO we give him another season and then re-assess from there.
That's exactly where i think he and the club are at. Croker spoke very openly about how he was not happy with his play at times last year. That's one of the reasons he's so well liked and respected as a leader. He holds himself accountable.

Croker has been a very good player for us for a long time, and his level of play finally dipped to the level his long time detractors have long claimed he plays at. He was not good in 2020. But it was his first poor season and I think both player and club are feeling the poor play was injury related and now he's fit again they're both expecting much better play in 2021.

If he's healthy and that level of play doesn't improve, then we've got a topic for discussion. But as a coach, for culture reasons and on field reasons outlined by Julian above, he's rightfully walking back into this team in the #3 jersey. And of course if he can no longer meet the standard, then club, coach and player might have to have a very hard chat about his future. But he has to fail into that position first.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Sid »

It was only this time last year Croker re-signed until end of 2024
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by pickles »

People have short memories. A lot of the best attacking play we produced last year was down the left edge with great interchanges between Wighton, Whitehead and Croker with some great line running as well. When our right edge couldn't produce at all it was our go to in attack and also the solid edge in defence.

But yeah, a rookie has a couple of decent game and now we should drop our captain...
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Northern Raider »

Short answer. This is not the "end of Croker". Takes more than a couple of good games by replacements for the Club to dump their captain and all time top point scorer. Seb Kris has looked good and if he continues to progress he could be a longer term solution. Scott has played his best 2 games yet wearing green. But you once again you need more than 2 good games out of 15 to supersede the skipper.

That said Croker needs to keep performing at a level good enough to hold his place in the team given we have capable replacements.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by dubby »

Kris is looking good, and is a promising player. He is still developing, and has a bright future.

Croker has copped some serious injuries the past few years. He's getting older, doesn't have the pace he used to, and isn't exactly a power runner either.

However, he's not going anywhere. At least not this year. You just don't go and dump a player and man like Croker because a rookie has shown potential. Kris will have to prove his worth this year.

I would hate to lose Kris to keep an aging, declining Croker. It's a hard situation long term.

Kris is better than Timoko IMO, and at this stage HSS.

Short term, Croker isn't leaving.

Some big decisions ahead, particularly if Croker gets another serious injury.

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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Wiki Special »

Seiffert82 wrote: March 23, 2021, 6:09 am I thought Croker was pretty good in 2019. He was one of our best players in the 2019 Grand Final.

Last season wasn't great.

I'm looking forward to seeing how he goes this year.
This is my view too. Had a down 2020 but he has to be given every opportunity to bounce back. Not only was he very good in the GF he was brilliant in the Prelim vs Souths. His defence particulary was huge in that game.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by -PJ- »

dubby wrote: March 23, 2021, 9:57 am Kris is looking good, and is a promising player. He is still developing, and has a bright future.

Croker has copped some serious injuries the past few years. He's getting older, doesn't have the pace he used to, and isn't exactly a power runner either.

However, he's not going anywhere. At least not this year. You just don't go and dump a player and man like Croker because a rookie has shown potential. Kris will have to prove his worth this year.

I would hate to lose Kris to keep an aging, declining Croker. It's a hard situation long term.

Kris is better than Timoko IMO, and at this stage HSS.

Short term, Croker isn't leaving.

Some big decisions ahead, particularly if Croker gets another serious injury.

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This is where I am with Croker. Today..right now..he walks straight back into the #3 jersey and plays well for the team. He has the runs on the board. But there’s absolutely no doubt he’s under some pressure to perform.

But it’s not 2021 some of us are thinking about, it’s next year and beyond. He’s contracted for at least another 3yrs? I believe. Believe me I’m a Croker fan. I hope his form returns and he remains injury free.

I don’t have a crystal ball. If Crokers form is steady he starts at left centre until HE calls it a day.

HSS, Timoko, Kris are ready now, all waiting for a chance, I’d hate too lose them.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Raiders666 »

Either way I'd say we are going to lose 1 or 2 of Timoko, HSS and Kris...Surely they will want playing time eventually
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by hobbsy »

This is the sort of conversation you have when your team is failing to produce results, missing the 8, not living up to expectations.

Croker had an average year last year. He certainly wasn't the only backline player guilty of that. We also made it to a prelim, and were in the grand final the year before. Now we are 2-0 to start the season, and we haven't even had a chance to see him in action returning from injury yet. Its wayyyy too early for this discussion.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Wiki Special wrote: March 23, 2021, 11:01 am
Seiffert82 wrote: March 23, 2021, 6:09 am I thought Croker was pretty good in 2019. He was one of our best players in the 2019 Grand Final.

Last season wasn't great.

I'm looking forward to seeing how he goes this year.
This is my view too. Had a down 2020 but he has to be given every opportunity to bounce back. Not only was he very good in the GF he was brilliant in the Prelim vs Souths. His defence particulary was huge in that game.
Yep. There are quite a few people who have been on Croker's back for years that would like us all to believe he was **** in 2019. That simply isn't true.

Scott has been solid so far this season and Kris has had a really good start to the year. Croker will be on his toes to perform, but he steps straight back in to the team... if he is 110% fit.

It's a healthy spot for us to be.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by -TW- »

We have solid backs and forwards depth, I can't remember the last time we had both

It's usually one or the other

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Re: End of Croker?

Post by BJ »

I’m impressed with Kris, but I still don’t rate HSS and Timoko as much as many do here.

I didn’t see anything over and beyond what other fringe backs showed across other teams in the NRL. Some of the part timers at other clubs showed some great stuff.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by nachopants »

I'm simply excited Croker has a bit of competition, he shouldn't feel "unsafe" but feeling a little "less safe" is healthy competition.

The thing that has been strange though is the enormous praise for Seb. I'm happy to see him back, and he has had a few good touches, but for me he has gone missing for huge parts of the two games so far
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by nachopants »

Sorry just wanted to chuck some stats against that.

Round 1, 6 runs, 81 metres
Round 2, 11 runs, 100 metres

It's a good effort and a good return but I can't say I'm on the "OMG A++++ hype train" to do something as drastic as dropping our Captain.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by GreenMachine »

nachopants wrote: March 23, 2021, 2:35 pm Sorry just wanted to chuck some stats against that.

Round 1, 6 runs, 81 metres
Round 2, 11 runs, 100 metres

It's a good effort and a good return but I can't say I'm on the "OMG A++++ hype train" to do something as drastic as dropping our Captain.
His defensive reads are what impressed me most.
Worked seamlessly with the left edge defenders, which was very refreshing..
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by tommyhud9 »

This is one of the greatest/worst (whichever way you want to look at it) OP's in the history of this forum.

Unbelievable stuff.

A young centre plays two solid games and all of the sudden he is set to be chosen ahead of our captain and someone who has excelled at the club for the past 12 years?

Curtis Scott was on everyone's hit list two games ago also.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by zim »

There's just a few on here that have had it in for Croker for a very long time. The same few start one of these threads every season. It's even won worst thread of the year in the past.
Eventually they'll be right. Probably after 300 games for the club. Then they'll be able to put a pin in that one and move on to the next.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by The Nickman »

And that's the end of that chapter.

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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Northern Raider »

Raiders666 wrote: March 23, 2021, 11:56 am Either way I'd say we are going to lose 1 or 2 of Timoko, HSS and Kris...Surely they will want playing time eventually
Not so sure. I don't think any of our current backs are cemented in for 2022 and beyond. Those three guys have every opportunity to stake a claim for a 1st grade spot going forward. Unless the club decides they're not up for it or another club comes in with a ridiculously high offer then I don't see any of them moving on in the immediate term.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by rayden83 »

tommyhud9 wrote: March 23, 2021, 3:56 pm This is one of the greatest/worst (whichever way you want to look at it) OP's in the history of this forum.

Unbelievable stuff.

A young centre plays two solid games and all of the sudden he is set to be chosen ahead of our captain and someone who has excelled at the club for the past 12 years?

Curtis Scott was on everyone's hit list two games ago also.
I was on board with dropping Croker prior to the new season. The fact that Kris has come in and ran with gusto, made line breaks and scored tries confirms to me that he is worth an extended stint. He is only 21 and has significant upside.

Croker doesn’t have the tools, he is too slow and light. It’s not really a form thing, it’s just the way he is. He never busts tackles, barely breaks the line, and when he does he is quicky mowed down due to his lack of speed. That was alright when he was surrounded by Cotric, Leilua and Rapana but with Simonssen, Scott and an ageing Raps we are a bit underpowered in the backline, and Kris, based on his performances so far, gives us that hard running, BJ esque X factor we missed last year. He also had significant defensive lapses last year, the obvious one being in the prelim against Melbourne. Not his fault we lost but our backs were outclassed and out muscled by Melbournes. He was part of the problem.

I get it though, sentiments are running high, he is our captain, captain courageous if you will, he never shirks the hard yards and he’s a great clubman. I want to see us win a Premiership though, if that’s to transpire we need to be ruthless and compete with the best clubs in every position. If our goal is to make the prelims then Croker can give us that.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by afgtnk »

zim wrote: March 23, 2021, 4:05 pm There's just a few on here that have had it in for Croker for a very long time. The same few start one of these threads every season. It's even won worst thread of the year in the past.
Eventually they'll be right. Probably after 300 games for the club. Then they'll be able to put a pin in that one and move on to the next.
EXACTLY the kind of emotional, sentimental dribble you'd expect to find in a Jarrod Croker thread :lol:

Afflicts many generally good posters too, who are by and large logical and rational when tackling every other topic but this one. Just bizzare really
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by dubby »

BJ wrote:I’m impressed with Kris, but I still don’t rate HSS and Timoko as much as many do here.

I didn’t see anything over and beyond what other fringe backs showed across other teams in the NRL. Some of the part timers at other clubs showed some great stuff.
I'm with you BJ Mole.

HSS and Timoko haven't showed what Kris has .

Not to say they can't.

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If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by zim »

afgtnk wrote: March 23, 2021, 5:10 pm
zim wrote: March 23, 2021, 4:05 pm There's just a few on here that have had it in for Croker for a very long time. The same few start one of these threads every season. It's even won worst thread of the year in the past.
Eventually they'll be right. Probably after 300 games for the club. Then they'll be able to put a pin in that one and move on to the next.
EXACTLY the kind of emotional, sentimental dribble you'd expect to find in a Jarrod Croker thread :lol:

Afflicts many generally good posters too, who are by and large logical and rational when tackling every other topic but this one. Just bizzare really
Yeah it's odd but Aidan Sezer is now playing in the super league so what can you do?
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by dubby »

Let's give Kris time to develop.

He's been out for a while, yeah?

He's not upto full NRL yet.

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Rickmando »

Can I pose a hypothetical?

Let’s say Croker gives us 10 games of what he generally showed us last season, and concurrently Kris proves to be dominant in reserve grade while he’s down there... are any of you prepared to make the tough call to drop Croker mid-season, and prepare the team for a finals run without him?
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by raiderskater »

Oh look, the numpties are back.

I've loved watching Seb Kris and Curtis Scott the last two weeks.

But when we were going all to pieces on Sunday night there was no-one I wanted on the field more than Jarrod Croker. I think we sorely missed his leadership. We were losing our heads and Hodgo was so putrid he wasn't in any position to pull us back together.

I think Townsend also showed us the importance of a top goalkicker.

Croker's still an excellent centre and he's still a key component of our team. I've been enjoying Seb and Curtis but I don't think two games of them being good has warranted keeping Croker out.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by Botman »

Rickmando wrote: March 23, 2021, 6:12 pm Can I pose a hypothetical?

Let’s say Croker gives us 10 games of what he generally showed us last season, and concurrently Kris proves to be dominant in reserve grade while he’s down there... are any of you prepared to make the tough call to drop Croker mid-season, and prepare the team for a finals run without him?
It doesnt matter. Which has been my main point the entire time. We dont pick the team
The correct hypothetical is:

Let’s say Croker gives us 10 games of what he generally showed us last season, and concurrently Kris proves to be dominant in reserve grade while he’s down there... Will Stuart be willing to make the tough call to drop Croker mid-season, and prepare the team for a finals run without him?

And the answer on that will be no.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by Rickmando »

Botman - stop being so literal. If we limited discussion to only the things R.Stuart would do, there would be no forum champ.

The whole point here is to have discussions as fans. You’re missing the point, so how about you hit the sheds for an early shower instead of trying to drive a narrative down a very narrow path. Good grief
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by julian87 »

rayden83 wrote: March 23, 2021, 4:43 pm
tommyhud9 wrote: March 23, 2021, 3:56 pm This is one of the greatest/worst (whichever way you want to look at it) OP's in the history of this forum.

Unbelievable stuff.

A young centre plays two solid games and all of the sudden he is set to be chosen ahead of our captain and someone who has excelled at the club for the past 12 years?

Curtis Scott was on everyone's hit list two games ago also.
I was on board with dropping Croker prior to the new season. The fact that Kris has come in and ran with gusto, made line breaks and scored tries confirms to me that he is worth an extended stint. He is only 21 and has significant upside.

Croker doesn’t have the tools, he is too slow and light. It’s not really a form thing, it’s just the way he is. He never busts tackles, barely breaks the line, and when he does he is quicky mowed down due to his lack of speed. That was alright when he was surrounded by Cotric, Leilua and Rapana but with Simonssen, Scott and an ageing Raps we are a bit underpowered in the backline, and Kris, based on his performances so far, gives us that hard running, BJ esque X factor we missed last year. He also had significant defensive lapses last year, the obvious one being in the prelim against Melbourne. Not his fault we lost but our backs were outclassed and out muscled by Melbournes. He was part of the problem.

I get it though, sentiments are running high, he is our captain, captain courageous if you will, he never shirks the hard yards and he’s a great clubman. I want to see us win a Premiership though, if that’s to transpire we need to be ruthless and compete with the best clubs in every position. If our goal is to make the prelims then Croker can give us that.
I’m going to say I disagree with this almost entirely.

Ftr the obvious defensive lapses in the prelim final last year is embellished. He missed a rampaging Vunivalu, yep. We got absolutely diddled that game though. it was Bellamy/Smith realizing our 2 horrific weaknesses: Rapana defending at centre and Valemei trying to catch any ball that went above his eyeline that nailed the coffin from about the 2nd minute.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: End of Croker?

Post by zim »

Rickmando wrote: March 23, 2021, 6:12 pm Can I pose a hypothetical?

Let’s say Croker gives us 10 games of what he generally showed us last season, and concurrently Kris proves to be dominant in reserve grade while he’s down there... are any of you prepared to make the tough call to drop Croker mid-season, and prepare the team for a finals run without him?
If Croker gave us 10 games of dross I'd be doing what I'd do with a Papalii or a Wighton. Dropping them back to reserves for a week or 2 to get a response and when they inevitably do they'd be coming back up.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by afgtnk »

Croker is not Josh Papalii, or Jack Wighton. He's no where near that level of talent, and doesn't have it in him to put on a display like they do. That is inherently the difference here.

The kind of run some people think Croker should be afforded is really only extended to elite players, or players who were once elite. That's not Jarrod Croker.
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Re: Jarrod Croker

Post by julian87 »

afgtnk wrote: March 23, 2021, 6:50 pm Croker is not Josh Papalii, or Jack Wighton. He's no where near that level of talent, and doesn't have it in him to put on a display like they do. That is inherently the difference here.

The kind of run some people think Croker should be afforded is really only extended to elite players, or players who were once elite. That's not Jarrod Croker.
You’d have no problem with overlooking Croker for a potentially small upgrade at centre (I don’t agree on it being an upgrade) and having George Williams kicking goals in a finals series?
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
Locked