Sebastian Kris

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Northern Raider
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Northern Raider »

BadnMean wrote: June 15, 2021, 12:31 pm
Northern Raider wrote: June 15, 2021, 10:27 am
BadnMean wrote: June 15, 2021, 6:34 am
Botman wrote: June 14, 2021, 8:17 pm I never know what to think of those speed tracker things... i know the technology is sound and the speed is the speed, but honestly Kris could clock up what ever he likes on the speed tracker.

He's not a speedster, that's not his game. I dont expect to see him running away from many players. His game is predicated on physicality. Not speed or agility. He has shown with ball in hand, he's a threat. He's a young player who is still learning his craft out wide and it shows defensively but certainly based on what we've seen, he and Timoko should be our starting centres and give these kids the chance to continue to develop and grow

if HSS gets back, i would like to see him also get an extended run, which may be unfair to those players in a vacuum, but i think its beneficial for us to get a good look at him too just so we have a better idea of what we have in him
He's not a speedster. But fair to say he improves the speed in our back 5 overall, compared to Croker and Scott. And he's not slower than Simo, who is usually seen as our quickest player. It's a top speed measurement, which is only useful in certain circumstances if you get a long break with no complications. Acceleration would be more important, most of the time. Agility, ability to maintain speed while changing direction right up there. Balance like someone likes prime Duges or Teddy has in a tackle to stay on their feet and bounce out of a tackle... Complex thing. Then we get to the gamesense issue of knowing how to apply any of that.
Speed Tracker also had Jack Hetherington running 36.1 KM/H earlier in the year. Yes, he's a mobile prop but must have had a serious tail wind that day.
Maybe he did. In sports science we divide it up into acceleration, top speed, speed endurance and agility is a separate issue. Every possibility Hethero has a great top speed- he's half Mullins isn't he? He'd just have average acceleration and speed endurance.
If a player hit that type of speed I'd expect him to appear more regularly on the weekly lists. without access to more data we can't really know if these isolated top speeds are anomalies or if they're consistently in this bracket.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Canberra Milk wrote: June 15, 2021, 1:13 pm Kris is a second rower to me, especially with the new rules. We don't have the backs to shift him yet but once we do, I'd be making the move

Kris to second row, Whitehead to lock, Dufty somewhere in the mix and all of a sudden there is points in this team
I wouldn't mind spending some cash on a second rower but if we don't I think Kris to second row could be a good move in the future.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Sid »

Can we bring Savage on for the last 10 seconds of 1 game just so we can win the speed tracker? Even if no one is making a break just get him to run the 100m

On a more serious note I wonder how his speed compares against JAC and Saab


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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by afgtnk »

Seb has to boost his metres a bit and make hard running for dirty metres the focus of his game. That and running lines should be strength.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by SeeBee101 »

If Seb doesn’t pick up his game, I wonder if Ricky
Would bring in HSS if he gets a couple games under his sleeve?


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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by zim »

HSS probably going to need at least a month of solid footy before he's in the conversation.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Seiffert82 »

Gonna be hard for HSS to do that given he's due back from injury between rounds 20-22.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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He's already back

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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Seiffert82 »

Good stuff. Hopefully he gets a good run of it. Plenty of opportunities there for him.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by FROG »

While I like Kris I think timoko showed him up last week. Sample of one for now but it demonstrated where Kris is at. I reckon he is destined for an Oldfield type career. On the fringe of being a first grader.

Unlike others I reckon centre is an area we need to improve in. Not saying we need to recruit, just that we need to be better and I'm hoping HSS may be the answer.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by BadnMean »

Seiffert82 wrote: June 16, 2021, 10:10 am Gonna be hard for HSS to do that given he's due back from injury between rounds 20-22.
Back in full training so he might start getting a run in reggies next week or 2...
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by bonehead »

BadnMean wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: June 16, 2021, 10:10 am Gonna be hard for HSS to do that given he's due back from injury between rounds 20-22.
Back in full training so he might start getting a run in reggies next week or 2...
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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FROG wrote: June 17, 2021, 6:58 am While I like Kris I think timoko showed him up last week. Sample of one for now but it demonstrated where Kris is at. I reckon he is destined for an Oldfield type career. On the fringe of being a first grader.

Unlike others I reckon centre is an area we need to improve in. Not saying we need to recruit, just that we need to be better and I'm hoping HSS may be the answer.
I'm a big Kris fan but I agree, he hasn't locked a spot down as all his own as yet.

Timoko will have to keep producing and then hold up when other teams start to plan for him/throw new challenges at him as Kris has battled a little bit with agile runners in defence.
Big IF Dufty comes and CNK moves to centre then HSS, Kris, Timoko might be battling for the one centre spot. Kris may also be a handy #14 as backline cover + tough enough to fill in on an edge if needed (we're not usually short of middles but mobile lock at a stretch, down the track perhaps).
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Botman »

Canberra Milk wrote: June 15, 2021, 1:13 pm Kris is a second rower to me, especially with the new rules. We don't have the backs to shift him yet but once we do, I'd be making the move

Kris to second row, Whitehead to lock, Dufty somewhere in the mix and all of a sudden there is points in this team
I think this is ultimately his trajectory too
Maybe as early as next year, Stuart already tipped his hand a little bit earlier in the year when he named him there, and i know he got knocked out of that game but he did start that game strongly as an edge forward
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by The Nickman »

Kris to second row makes sense, it really is inside centre on one edge these days.

Mal Meninga would be a second rower in today's game.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Funnily enough, I reckon Meninga would have resisted that move. He pretty much played outside centre his entire career, playing outside the likes of Jackson and Daley who both ended up being pretty handy 5/8s. He much preferred running at smaller blokes I think. :lol:
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Plus one of his many great attributes was setting up his winger. There isn't a current centre who even comes close in this aspect. Many Canberra wingers owe him a fortune for enabling them to get big pay days at other clubs. I am biased though, to this day still my favourite player of all time.

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Re: Sebastian Kris

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gergreg wrote: June 17, 2021, 10:33 am Plus one of his many great attributes was setting up his winger. There isn't a current centre who even comes close in this aspect. Many Canberra wingers owe him a fortune for enabling them to get big pay days at other clubs. I am biased though, to this day still my favourite player of all time.

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Makes me laugh when I see Paul Martin's name come up in the conversation of our greatest ever wingers.

C'mon now. Playing outside of Meninga just makes Paul Martin one of the luckiest wingers of all time. But yeah, Martin was very good at running straight lines into gaping holes.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2021, 10:24 am Funnily enough, I reckon Meninga would have resisted that move. He pretty much played outside centre his entire career, playing outside the likes of Jackson and Daley who both ended up being pretty handy 5/8s. He much preferred running at smaller blokes I think. :lol:
If you just dump 1990 Mal Meninga into the NRL today i think you're absolutely right, he'd have the clout to dictate what position he was playing and that would be centre

If you were recruiting a 17-18 year old Mal today though, you'd be recruiting him as an edge forward
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Botman wrote: June 17, 2021, 11:18 am
Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2021, 10:24 am Funnily enough, I reckon Meninga would have resisted that move. He pretty much played outside centre his entire career, playing outside the likes of Jackson and Daley who both ended up being pretty handy 5/8s. He much preferred running at smaller blokes I think. :lol:
If you just dump 1990 Mal Meninga into the NRL today i think you're absolutely right, he'd have the clout to dictate what position he was playing and that would be centre

If you were recruiting a 17-18 year old Mal today though, you'd be recruiting him as an edge forward
Or you might just keep him at centre and watch him dominate in that position rather than spend most of his energy in defence. It's a bit like saying you'd also make Reg Gasnier a second rower. Why would you do that? Maybe if you were Matt Elliott?
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Correct me if im wrong here but when i've spoken to people who watched Reg Gasnier (i admittedly have not seen much of him, was long before my time), i always got the impression that stylistically he was a fast, elusive player with incredible balance (I imagined him not to dissimilar to his nephew in his style of play).

Meninga was a brute and bully. The proverbial bull in the china shop. He was a truck coming straight down the highway and good luck if you wanted to get in the way of that.

Meninga was built like a classic modern day back rower... his size and body type would have quickly had him ear marked for an edge forward role.
In fact given his size if he was an 18 year old today, the idea of playing him at centre would IMO be foreign because the guy would have been playing in the forwards since his early teens. I mean look around the league today, players built like him are rarely found at centre these days and when a rare one pops up, it's not long before they find themselves playing in the backrow.

Just the nature of how the game has evolved over the years.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Canberra Milk »

I think the problem with centre now is that it's harder to get involved, as opposed to Meninga's time when an inside centre could be all over the field

Then again Turbo did that in origin and it was very refreshing to see

Weirdly I can't even pinpoint when the transition happened from having a full traditional backline, to a left/right split system, but it happened sometime during my watching without me noticing. I remember Loz revived the old system as coach of Country in a City Country match and it went ok
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by The Nickman »

Bot's right, you know.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Canberra Milk wrote: June 17, 2021, 1:06 pm I think the problem with centre now is that it's harder to get involved, as opposed to Meninga's time when an inside centre could be all over the field

Then again Turbo did that in origin and it was very refreshing to see

Weirdly I can't even pinpoint when the transition happened from having a full traditional backline, to a left/right split system, but it happened sometime during my watching without me noticing. I remember Loz revived the old system as coach of Country in a City Country match and it went ok
Yeah i was saying to my FIL the other day i found it really interesting how they used Tom T, and i said it was a sort half roving fullback/centre and it was really fun and made it very hard to QLD to stop with Teddy and Turbo playing all over the park but you've probably categorised it far better there as a classic old school inside centre who played both sides

Thinking now in my head about when this happened, traditional backlines were still around and kicking in 94-95, but i remember clearly even in 1999 Timmins and McGregor were left/right players, as were Moule and Martin for Melbourne in that GF

So pin pointing it like that places the change somewhere between 1996-1998
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Seiffert82 »

Kris will likely end up in the second row because his style and skillset lends itself to that move.

Unlike Kris, Meninga was arguably the best centre to have played the game. You could argue that his size and build lent itself a move to the forwards. He played a couple of nondescript tests in the second row, so that's obviously not a new idea. There's a very good chance his legacy wouldn't approach what it is now if he played in that role in this day and age.

Each to their own I guess. I'm not sure every solid ball runner needs to be earmarked as a second rower, or a winger for that matter, but I do appreciate the sentiment that it's probably a more important position than centre these days.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Coastalraider »

Botman wrote: June 17, 2021, 1:18 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: June 17, 2021, 1:06 pm I think the problem with centre now is that it's harder to get involved, as opposed to Meninga's time when an inside centre could be all over the field

Then again Turbo did that in origin and it was very refreshing to see

Weirdly I can't even pinpoint when the transition happened from having a full traditional backline, to a left/right split system, but it happened sometime during my watching without me noticing. I remember Loz revived the old system as coach of Country in a City Country match and it went ok
Yeah i was saying to my FIL the other day i found it really interesting how they used Tom T, and i said it was a sort half roving fullback/centre and it was really fun and made it very hard to QLD to stop with Teddy and Turbo playing all over the park but you've probably categorised it far better there as a classic old school inside centre who played both sides

Thinking now in my head about when this happened, traditional backlines were still around and kicking in 94-95, but i remember clearly even in 1999 Timmins and McGregor were left/right players, as were Moule and Martin for Melbourne in that GF

So pin pointing it like that places the change somewhere between 1996-1998
It will be interesting to see ow the concept evolves after the example of origin.

I saw it as playing x2 fullbacks in different roles in attack - Turbo playing the sweeping fullback role, and Teddy playing the fullback who supports the ruck. Bloody hard to stop with those x2 names mentioned.

Could almost see something similar here next year with Dufty on the sweep and CNK supporting the ruck....
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Sebastian Kris

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Sebastian Kris

Post by BJ »

Meninga actually read the numbers, with heads up play and had great passing skills. He wasn’t just a big tackle breaker. He often ran angles similar to a modern day fullback before putting someone into a hole. I’ve caught a few old highlights where Meninga was definitely not in his usual right Centre position, but popping up in the middle and on the left.

My guess is Meninga’s path would be SBW style in the modern game. Start at centre and progress into the second row.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Seiffert82 »

Meninga was all over the park because he played in an era when the centres played on both sides of the ruck. Being an outside centre he was typically operating in the corridors 10m from either sideline. Big enough to play second row, but had the pace and size to break tackles, draw the defence and set up his winger as well as anyone.

He was devastating out wide, but I'm not sure he'd be the same player on the edge of the ruck.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Nadruku »

Would you consider David Fifita a modern day Meninga?


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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by BJ »

Nadruku wrote:Would you consider David Fifita a modern day Meninga?


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Meninga certainly had a much better passing game. But I see similarities.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by gerg »

BJ wrote:
Nadruku wrote:Would you consider David Fifita a modern day Meninga?


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Meninga certainly had a much better passing game. But I see similarities.
Nah, Fifita has a bit of flat track bully about him. Goes missing too often. Mal was a leader and took on anyone who got in his way.

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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Seiffert82 »

Fifita is the sort of player that hits the line and bounces out of contact with a bit of footwork. Doesn't mind jinking around before the line either.

Meninga typically ran full tilt at the outside shoulder of the defender and powered through the line with a combination of his fend and that massive backside of his. Have a look at his highlights. I think it's a stretch to compare his game with someone like Fifita.
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Re: Sebastian Kris

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Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2021, 2:44 pm He was devastating out wide, but I'm not sure he'd be the same player on the edge of the ruck.
It's an interesting experiment to play out in the mind... what sort of career does someone like Mal Meninga end up with if he was around today... i feel very confident he'd be playing in the forwards from a very young age and the idea of centre probably wouldnt last long given his size... but i also share your thoughts that maybe that would have been to his detriment... which is the easy take to have given how his career went at centre, hard to top that!
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Re: Sebastian Kris

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: June 17, 2021, 8:47 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: June 17, 2021, 2:44 pm He was devastating out wide, but I'm not sure he'd be the same player on the edge of the ruck.
It's an interesting experiment to play out in the mind... what sort of career does someone like Mal Meninga end up with if he was around today... i feel very confident he'd be playing in the forwards from a very young age and the idea of centre probably wouldnt last long given his size... but i also share your thoughts that maybe that would have been to his detriment... which is the easy take to have given how his career went at centre, hard to top that!
Physically Meninga is slightly shorter than Latrell Mitchell and probably played at a similar weight. I wouldn't be putting Mitchell in the forwards for similar reasons I wouldn't have put Meninga there. I just don't see what the benefit is.

Mal made the guys outside him top the tryscoring titles year on year on year. Phil Carey, Paul Martin, Matthew Corkery. You name it, absolute nobodies looked unbelievable outside him. Why would you play him in the second row?
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