Sebastian Kris
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Re: Sebastian Kris
I thought the Reg to Mal comp was bad, but didnt have the confidence to say so bluntly as i hadnt watched Reg enough. I have no such issues with Mitchell and Mal
Athletically, Mitchell leaves Mal for dead. That's why you wouldnt move him into the forwards, because he is a rare, freaskish athlete who can move in ways people his size simply shouldnt.
Which is not to say Mal wasnt athletic but we're talking about a player on a totally different athletic level. Maybe Mal with modern training techniques etc could have been in that realm but there is no doubt in my mind if Meninga was born in 2000 and had that same level of talent, he'd be an edge forward.
But this we've probably wasted enough time on this thought experiment.
Athletically, Mitchell leaves Mal for dead. That's why you wouldnt move him into the forwards, because he is a rare, freaskish athlete who can move in ways people his size simply shouldnt.
Which is not to say Mal wasnt athletic but we're talking about a player on a totally different athletic level. Maybe Mal with modern training techniques etc could have been in that realm but there is no doubt in my mind if Meninga was born in 2000 and had that same level of talent, he'd be an edge forward.
But this we've probably wasted enough time on this thought experiment.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Meninga was a very talented athlete and junior Decathlete. Read what Wayne Bennett said about a young Meninga playing other sports in the Police Academy. I’d put him in the same category as Latrell.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Mal Meninga was made an Immortal of the game after playing his career at centre. And now people are telling us he should have been a second rower. That sums up what’s wrong with V’landysball today. That sums up what’s wrong with the world today.
Re: Sebastian Kris
I dont think that has much to do with V’landysball
this shift came long before V’landys was involved in this sport. Or anyone, the evolution of sports has existed as long as sport itself has existed.
This is the nature of sport, even this sport... roles change. The best example of that is the need to seperate the modern day hooker from the old day hooker... they play the "same" position except its changed so much that there is nothing comparable about it. A modern day hooker would not handle that role in the mid 60's anymore than a mid 60's hooker would handle today's modern day hooking role
Welcome to change. I know it's scary, but you'll be ok.
Last edited by Botman on June 17, 2021, 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Meninga looked to have slowed down quite a bit at the back end of his career.
All the footage I've seen of him from about 1990 and before that tells me he was deceptively quick and athletic for a guy of his size. Certainly enough to be an outside back in today's game, without factoring in the more advanced and detailed training regimes of the current game which would improve him.
All the footage I've seen of him from about 1990 and before that tells me he was deceptively quick and athletic for a guy of his size. Certainly enough to be an outside back in today's game, without factoring in the more advanced and detailed training regimes of the current game which would improve him.
Re: Sebastian Kris
There’s too much change in the game. Intentionally expressed with a lack of logic and a bit of emotion. I didn’t bother turning on the game tonight… was watching another program. I just switched on and it’s 40-0. Switched straight off. What’s going on with our game today is a debacle of major proportions.Botman wrote: ↑June 17, 2021, 9:29 pmI dont think that has much to do with V’landysball
this shift came long before V’landys was involved in this sport. Or anyone, the evolution of sports has existed as long as sport itself has existed.
This is the nature of sport, even this sport... roles change. The best example of that is the need to seperate the modern day hooker from the old day hooker... they play the "same" position except its changed so much that there is nothing comparable about it. A modern day hooker would not handle that role in the mid 60's anymore than a mid 60's hooker would handle today's modern day hooking role
Welcome to change. I know it's scary, but you'll be ok.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Fair enough. Toot on, big guy.
As i said, change is scary, and you'll get through it. But also to your point, not all change is good. There is a lot of people feeling about the game the way you are and we'll see what the future holds. But you get to feel about the current product however you feel and express it. Even when it doesnt really relate to the topic at hand
(and maybe for the best, as said, we've probably wasted too much time on this 2021 Meninga thought experiment)
We are very off topic, bit i thought Kris's limited minutes as an edge were interesting and i think that is where he is ultimately where he winds up. I really would like to see HSS get some serious time at centre and see Kris some more minutes in the back row as this lost season rolls on
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Re: Sebastian Kris
I see Seb Kris very much like Kurt Capewell and could easily head down that path. Capewell started as an oustide back before transitioning to the forwards when he established himself at NRL level. From a squad perpsective it's always handy to have an edge back rower who can fill in at centre if needed. Kris could command a permanent spot in the top 17 with that versatility.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
I'm not connecting the dots with Kris being a second-row prospect. Typically the types of players who can switch positions are those who are talented enough to be dominant in their preferred position. Kris still has to get a few issues out of his game defensively and build on his work with ball in hand, where he looks threatening but is yet to bust an opposition open.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
I don't think anyone is advocating for Kris to make the switch into the second row today! I think people are more suggesting he hone his craft at centre first, and then move in-field further down the line, in another two, maybe three weeks time.Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 18, 2021, 9:55 am I'm not connecting the dots with Kris being a second-row prospect. Typically the types of players who can switch positions are those who are talented enough to be dominant in their preferred position. Kris still has to get a few issues out of his game defensively and build on his work with ball in hand, where he looks threatening but is yet to bust an opposition open.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
The Nickman wrote: ↑June 18, 2021, 10:01 amI don't think anyone is advocating for Kris to make the switch into the second row today! I think people are more suggesting he hone his craft at centre first, and then move in-field further down the line, in another two, maybe three weeks time.Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 18, 2021, 9:55 am I'm not connecting the dots with Kris being a second-row prospect. Typically the types of players who can switch positions are those who are talented enough to be dominant in their preferred position. Kris still has to get a few issues out of his game defensively and build on his work with ball in hand, where he looks threatening but is yet to bust an opposition open.
Well played.
Last edited by Roger Kenworthy on June 18, 2021, 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
I agree. Having and edge "tweener" on the roster would be very valuable, esp with Whitey getting older. Kris seems to have the body type and physicality to pull it off.
Now, if this means HSS gets a good run, sign me up.
Now, if this means HSS gets a good run, sign me up.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Think you might be a bit old to play now, mate.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Not sure age is the largest barrier here....
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Boy, I can't believe you're calling Matty fat like this.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
All these pushups, my shoulders are safer than WiddopsCoastalraider wrote: ↑June 18, 2021, 10:37 amNot sure age is the largest barrier here....
Re: Sebastian Kris
I'm sure where all this huge push for HSS has come from. He really hasn't shown that much to warrant it so far, and it seems to only have grown since his injury.
He'll struggle to get into the team this season IMO.
He'll struggle to get into the team this season IMO.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Agree. HSS Looks like a fringe first grader to me whose shown less than other fringe centres at other clubs.afgtnk wrote:I'm sure where all this huge push for HSS has come from. He really hasn't shown that much to warrant it so far, and it seems to only have grown since his injury.
He'll struggle to get into the team this season IMO.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Well he's regularly outperformed Timoko and he's also a footballer. Not just an athlete. Would have already been in the side if not for the bicep injury.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Not sure how being a 'footballer' makes him different from guys like Kris and Timoko.
Tbh I think he's getting pumped up based more on what people want him to be, rather than what he is or what he's shown.
Tbh I think he's getting pumped up based more on what people want him to be, rather than what he is or what he's shown.
Last edited by afgtnk on June 18, 2021, 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Ok then. I think it's more people making decisions based off 1 Brisbane performance instead of a guy regularly playing better than the other.
Re: Sebastian Kris
I'm certainly not basing my thoughts about Timoko on the Broncos game. Take that with a pinch of salt.
Timoko hasn't exactly been a standout in reserves this year. I was a big advocate for him last season though and earlier in this one, based on what I'd see of him.
HSS just doesn't seem to have any standout qualities atm. He's not particularly big, strong, quick, or creative. I'm not sure what his point of difference - doesn't seem much above a safe and reliable type.
Timoko hasn't exactly been a standout in reserves this year. I was a big advocate for him last season though and earlier in this one, based on what I'd see of him.
HSS just doesn't seem to have any standout qualities atm. He's not particularly big, strong, quick, or creative. I'm not sure what his point of difference - doesn't seem much above a safe and reliable type.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Mal admitted such himselfThe Nickman wrote:Kris to second row makes sense, it really is inside centre on one edge these days.
Mal Meninga would be a second rower in today's game.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Martin was a ploderSeiffert82 wrote:Makes me laugh when I see Paul Martin's name come up in the conversation of our greatest ever wingers.gergreg wrote: ↑June 17, 2021, 10:33 am Plus one of his many great attributes was setting up his winger. There isn't a current centre who even comes close in this aspect. Many Canberra wingers owe him a fortune for enabling them to get big pay days at other clubs. I am biased though, to this day still my favourite player of all time.
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C'mon now. Playing outside of Meninga just makes Paul Martin one of the luckiest wingers of all time. But yeah, Martin was very good at running straight lines into gaping holes.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Sebastian Kris
I like to think I made Paul Martin look good back in our Holder High school days, but I have to admit Meninga made him look even better than I did.
But hey, I’ll twist past glories to suit.
Did I ever mention the amazing run I did, just before a collarbone breaking tackle from the opposing fullback ended my rugby league career......
But hey, I’ll twist past glories to suit.
Did I ever mention the amazing run I did, just before a collarbone breaking tackle from the opposing fullback ended my rugby league career......
Re: Sebastian Kris
afgtnk I've watched a lot of junior footy, saw HSS, Timoko and Valemei all come through. HSS the best of them in my view. He's just not had the opportunities that the others have had. He is a centre, but can do a job on the wing too. But Valemei is going to get the chance when wing vacancies happen.
My view hasn't changed over this year, I've held that view for quite a while.
PS Paul Martin was very good winger, speedy and good physical presence.
My view hasn't changed over this year, I've held that view for quite a while.
PS Paul Martin was very good winger, speedy and good physical presence.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
HSS show any potential to move in field? 6?greeneyed wrote: ↑June 18, 2021, 5:38 pm afgtnk I've watched a lot of junior footy, saw HSS, Timoko and Valemei all come through. HSS the best of them in my view. He's just not had the opportunities that the others have had. He is a centre, but can do a job on the wing too. But Valemei is going to get the chance when wing vacancies happen.
My view hasn't changed over this year, I've held that view for quite a while.
PS Paul Martin was very good winger, speedy and good physical presence.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Valemei has size and power.greeneyed wrote: ↑June 18, 2021, 5:38 pm afgtnk I've watched a lot of junior footy, saw HSS, Timoko and Valemei all come through. HSS the best of them in my view. He's just not had the opportunities that the others have had. He is a centre, but can do a job on the wing too. But Valemei is going to get the chance when wing vacancies happen.
My view hasn't changed over this year, I've held that view for quite a while.
PS Paul Martin was very good winger, speedy and good physical presence.
Timoko has power and speed.
I'm just not sure what HSS' standout strengths are. He's Timoko's size, but doesn't get through the line like he does, and isn't as quick. He seems like a smart footballer and a hard worker, but that only gets you so far.
Very happy to be wrong in any case - especially given he's a local junior.
Re: Sebastian Kris
Of modern day players Bradman Best would be closest to Mal in build. He goes alright at centre when not injured.
But SEB Kris reminds me more of Darren Smith who did very well in backline and back row. He is in his first year back after a season out of the game and playing in a disrupted side. I'll happily back him as he gets more game time under his belt.
Re: Sebastian Kris
mal was 6'2 107kg, pretty avg size really by modern standards
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Re: Sebastian Kris
I don't think there's a centre starting this week who'd be that heavy.
Only ones I can think of in recent memory who've regularly played there are Inglis, Mitchell, Best, and maybe Dugan.
Only ones I can think of in recent memory who've regularly played there are Inglis, Mitchell, Best, and maybe Dugan.
Re: Sebastian Kris
If Dugan was close to that heavy, 90% of that weight would be his ego.
Re: Sebastian Kris
I think Wikipedia is showing a bit heavier than playing weight but really with his lateral movement and size I don't think he'd be any sort of standout now.Azza wrote:If Dugan was close to that heavy, 90% of that weight would be his ego.
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Re: Sebastian Kris
Someone had to give him the saloon ride to the big dance BJ. Mal just took it from there.BJ wrote: ↑June 18, 2021, 5:33 pm I like to think I made Paul Martin look good back in our Holder High school days, but I have to admit Meninga made him look even better than I did.
But hey, I’ll twist past glories to suit.
Did I ever mention the amazing run I did, just before a collarbone breaking tackle from the opposing fullback ended my rugby league career......