Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by afgtnk »

Yeah I'm not keeping CNK if he's being replaced at fullback, unless we have to. We're wanting more speed on the edges, so he isn't the answer there.

Moreover, I don't think he'll want to stay and that's probably the best for his own sake. He's into his prime years now and would likely be able to pickup a starting fullback role at another club for decent money. Would not begrudge the guy of that.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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Canberra Milk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:24 pm $800k+?! Ok I like Dufty and he's underrated but that's a bit much
Someone is going to pay him that sort of money, 800k is probably high side estimate, you might only need to get 700k... but the reality is he's a ball playing fullback and a pretty damn good one. Someone is going to stump up that sort of cash for him, so if we want him, that's the going rate i think
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:25 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:11 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 12:56 pm
Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 12:45 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 12:34 pm
I do like him. Whether he's a better option for us at fullback than CNK I'm not so sure.
Im cautious of guys like Kennedy... this is the sort of scenario where i wouldnt commit to him unless i saw a little more from him and for a longer period
Certainly playing good footy right now though

Specifically for our club, he's not going to solve the problems CNK cant solve and i'd argue CNK is better at the other stuff right now. It's a lateral movement at best imo
I agree that you could bring in Dufty as fullback and shift CNK to the wing/centre and essentially solve 2 problems in 1. You dont need to lose CNK to get Dufty in, but as i explained a few pages back, the money for Dufty on circa 800k+ has got to come from somewhere
That last point is the crux of it. There's nobody off contract anywhere near that kind of money. Those that are off contract would need to replaced by some around the same amount so there's no cumulative savings either. 2021 is not going see any big recruitment drive from the Raiders.
Huh? Since when?

By that definition you'd never make any savings under your cap ever.
You make cap savings by replacing people on high value contracts with people in lower value contracts. Letting people on low value contracts go doesn't create much room at all because they need to be replaced on the roster.
So I gather you're assuming guys like Rapana, Lui, Sia are all on low value contracts.

I somehow highly doubt they are.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:01 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 11:55 am Saying Dufty is worth a punt and stating that CNK is a far superior defensive player that coaches won't be swapping isn't contradictory. Both opinions can be held by one person without conflict.

Also people are entitled to change their mind over the course of 8 months. We don't have to guard an opinion to our last breath.
I'm pretty sure it's contradictory when you're ragging on a guy one minute, and wanting to take him on the next. Almost nothing has changed in those 8 months either.

We're still slow
Our backline is still weak
CNK remains the same player
So does Dufty, albeit playing within what seems to be a better structure, under a better coach

Regardless, as pointing out the foibles of my fellow supporters isn't the game here, I think we should absolutely be going hammer and tong for Dufty. This is the kind of high tide signing that can raise all ships.

The game has moved away from defence only fullbacks. CNK's one of the few that still exist at the top level, and there's a very clear reason for it. He's served his purpose, and I think he's definitely been a good purchase all things considered, but the time comes to evolve and try take your game to the next level.
Those are 2 different observations on different aspects. It's not contradictory opinions. For example I would like Dufty as our fullback and move CNK to the wing. Dufty is not as good defensively as CNK and the coaching staff will not make that move anyway.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:28 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:25 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:11 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 12:56 pm
Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 12:45 pm

Im cautious of guys like Kennedy... this is the sort of scenario where i wouldnt commit to him unless i saw a little more from him and for a longer period
Certainly playing good footy right now though

Specifically for our club, he's not going to solve the problems CNK cant solve and i'd argue CNK is better at the other stuff right now. It's a lateral movement at best imo
I agree that you could bring in Dufty as fullback and shift CNK to the wing/centre and essentially solve 2 problems in 1. You dont need to lose CNK to get Dufty in, but as i explained a few pages back, the money for Dufty on circa 800k+ has got to come from somewhere
That last point is the crux of it. There's nobody off contract anywhere near that kind of money. Those that are off contract would need to replaced by some around the same amount so there's no cumulative savings either. 2021 is not going see any big recruitment drive from the Raiders.
Huh? Since when?

By that definition you'd never make any savings under your cap ever.
You make cap savings by replacing people on high value contracts with people in lower value contracts. Letting people on low value contracts go doesn't create much room at all because they need to be replaced on the roster.
So I gather you're assuming guys like Rapana, Lui, Sia are all on low value contracts.

I somehow highly doubt they are.
How much do you think they are on?
Last edited by Northern Raider on April 12, 2021, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:27 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:24 pm $800k+?! Ok I like Dufty and he's underrated but that's a bit much
Someone is going to pay him that sort of money, 800k is probably high side estimate, you might only need to get 700k... but the reality is he's a ball playing fullback and a pretty damn good one. Someone is going to stump up that sort of cash for him, so if we want him, that's the going rate i think
600-700 I think he can easily get and will be worthy. Up to 750 I'd say pull the trigger.

Of course, we're just spitballing here and guesstimating.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:30 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:28 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:25 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:11 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 12:56 pm
That last point is the crux of it. There's nobody off contract anywhere near that kind of money. Those that are off contract would need to replaced by some around the same amount so there's no cumulative savings either. 2021 is not going see any big recruitment drive from the Raiders.
Huh? Since when?

By that definition you'd never make any savings under your cap ever.
You make cap savings by replacing people on high value contracts with people in lower value contracts. Letting people on low value contracts go doesn't create much room at all because they need to be replaced on the roster.
So I gather you're assuming guys like Rapana, Lui, Sia are all on low value contracts.

I somehow highly doubt they are.
How much are they on?
Enough to make decent savings on, if and when they're replaced, to make a sizeable contribution towards the signing of a guy like Dufty I'd say.

Jordan Rapana especially would not be on peanuts taking one year contracts. No chance IMO.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:31 pm
Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:27 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:24 pm $800k+?! Ok I like Dufty and he's underrated but that's a bit much
Someone is going to pay him that sort of money, 800k is probably high side estimate, you might only need to get 700k... but the reality is he's a ball playing fullback and a pretty damn good one. Someone is going to stump up that sort of cash for him, so if we want him, that's the going rate i think
600-700 I think he can easily get and will be worthy. Up to 750 I'd say pull the trigger.

Of course, we're just spitballing here and guesstimating.
This is where as a fan i'd love to be able to go to a site like www.overthecap.com and find NRL fullbacks and really determine what his market actually should be, and what moves we could make to get him in...

but alas... guesstimation is all we have
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:32 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:30 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:28 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:25 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:11 pm

Huh? Since when?

By that definition you'd never make any savings under your cap ever.
You make cap savings by replacing people on high value contracts with people in lower value contracts. Letting people on low value contracts go doesn't create much room at all because they need to be replaced on the roster.
So I gather you're assuming guys like Rapana, Lui, Sia are all on low value contracts.

I somehow highly doubt they are.
How much are they on?
Enough to make decent savings on, if and when they're replaced, to make a sizeable contribution towards the signing of a guy like Dufty I'd say.

Jordan Rapana especially would not be on peanuts taking one year contracts. No chance IMO.
I doubt Rapana was seeing a flood of big money offers coming his way. A 1 year deal on a conservative amount was probably enough for him to stay.

Lui was a fringe player when he signed. Depth middle forwards don't command that much. His status now as an Origin player could bump up his worth but again, I don't think there was much competition for his signature. I wouldn't even guess what Sia is on.

Theoretically you could replace 3 guys on $300k with 3 nobodies on minimum and save around $600k. Problem there is we've already got a bunch of guys on minimum who are not proven 1st graders. To add more is a very risky play, especially with high injury rates we see now.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:42 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:31 pm
Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:27 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:24 pm $800k+?! Ok I like Dufty and he's underrated but that's a bit much
Someone is going to pay him that sort of money, 800k is probably high side estimate, you might only need to get 700k... but the reality is he's a ball playing fullback and a pretty damn good one. Someone is going to stump up that sort of cash for him, so if we want him, that's the going rate i think
600-700 I think he can easily get and will be worthy. Up to 750 I'd say pull the trigger.

Of course, we're just spitballing here and guesstimating.
This is where as a fan i'd love to be able to go to a site like www.overthecap.com and find NRL fullbacks and really determine what his market actually should be, and what moves we could make to get him in...

but alas... guesstimation is all we have
Would be excellent. Half the fun of the NFL is playing virtual cap manager. Be great to have that in the NRL. These conversations would have more substance. Instead all we can do is argue theories on contracts values we have no clue about.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:43 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:32 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:30 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:28 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:25 pm
You make cap savings by replacing people on high value contracts with people in lower value contracts. Letting people on low value contracts go doesn't create much room at all because they need to be replaced on the roster.
So I gather you're assuming guys like Rapana, Lui, Sia are all on low value contracts.

I somehow highly doubt they are.
How much are they on?
Enough to make decent savings on, if and when they're replaced, to make a sizeable contribution towards the signing of a guy like Dufty I'd say.

Jordan Rapana especially would not be on peanuts taking one year contracts. No chance IMO.
I doubt Rapana was seeing a flood of big money offers coming his way. A 1 year deal on a conservative amount was probably enough for him to stay.

Lui was a fringe player when he signed. Depth middle forwards don't command that much. His status now as an Origin player could bump up his worth but again, I don't think there was much competition for his signature. I wouldn't even guess what Sia is on.

Theoretically you could replace 3 guys on $300k with 3 nobodies on minimum and save around $600k. Problem there is we've already got a bunch of guys on minimum who are not proven 1st graders. To add more is a very risky play, especially with high injury rates we see now.
That theory in your first paragraph didn't really work with a guy like Jarrod Croker for example though, did it.

Rapa would undoubtedly be asking for multi year contracts from us. Of course, he's not getting them. I have no doubt he's sacrificing longer term security for higher short term pay, likely because we're not prepared to take the risk on the outlay for the requested commitment, and he's not willing to accept the lesser benefit.

If CNK took ~350k p.a. on a multi year contract, I have no doubt whatsoever Jordy is on minimum 400k on his one years. Take them both out and you can land Dufty.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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Neither Lui, Rapana or Sia made the Daily Telegraph list of players over $250k a season. Which was apparently the best effort yet by journalists to get player payment information.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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BJ wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:14 pm Neither Lui, Rapana or Sia made the Daily Telegraph list of players over $250k a season. Which was apparently the best effort yet by journalists to get player payment information.
Do you, or anyone else know if there is a link online for this piece?
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:01 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:43 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:32 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:30 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:28 pm

So I gather you're assuming guys like Rapana, Lui, Sia are all on low value contracts.

I somehow highly doubt they are.
How much are they on?
Enough to make decent savings on, if and when they're replaced, to make a sizeable contribution towards the signing of a guy like Dufty I'd say.

Jordan Rapana especially would not be on peanuts taking one year contracts. No chance IMO.
I doubt Rapana was seeing a flood of big money offers coming his way. A 1 year deal on a conservative amount was probably enough for him to stay.

Lui was a fringe player when he signed. Depth middle forwards don't command that much. His status now as an Origin player could bump up his worth but again, I don't think there was much competition for his signature. I wouldn't even guess what Sia is on.

Theoretically you could replace 3 guys on $300k with 3 nobodies on minimum and save around $600k. Problem there is we've already got a bunch of guys on minimum who are not proven 1st graders. To add more is a very risky play, especially with high injury rates we see now.
That theory in your first paragraph didn't really work with a guy like Jarrod Croker for example though, did it.

Rapa would undoubtedly be asking for multi year contracts from us. Of course, he's not getting them. I have no doubt he's sacrificing longer term security for higher short term pay, likely because we're not prepared to take the risk on the outlay for the requested commitment, and he's not willing to accept the lesser benefit.

If CNK took ~350k p.a. on a multi year contract, I have no doubt whatsoever Jordy is on minimum 400k on his one years. Take them both out and you can land Dufty.
Firstly, I don't see any parallels with Croker here so not going to get into that.

So let's for arguments sake say those amounts are correct. We offload CNk to another club at his full contract value of $350k and don't re-sign Rapana on $400k. That's $750k less the cost of Rapana's replacement. That would still need to be around $200k-$250k as you won't be able to keep a regular starter in 1st grade on less than that. Whether its the player signed to replace him or Valemei, Timoko etc promoted. Net result is $500k-$550k offer for Dufty. I don't see him packing his thermal underwear and moving to Canberra for that amount.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

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BJ wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:14 pm Neither Lui, Rapana or Sia made the Daily Telegraph list of players over $250k a season. Which was apparently the best effort yet by journalists to get player payment information.
I do remember the article last year. Rapana's 2020 contract value was only part of the season so may not have made the list.
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Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by BJ »

Botman wrote:
BJ wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:14 pm Neither Lui, Rapana or Sia made the Daily Telegraph list of players over $250k a season. Which was apparently the best effort yet by journalists to get player payment information.
Do you, or anyone else know if there is a link online for this piece?
I’m trying to do a search. But I no longer have Daily Telegraph access. It was over a Saturday and Sunday special. The print edition had a longer table of details above $250k (or thereabouts). It listed a range of mid range players from the Raiders. The top 100 players list (which was the related article had Wighton, Papa, Hodgson and Croker from memory).

Pretty sure we discussed it on GH last year.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

BJ wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:58 pm
Botman wrote:
BJ wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:14 pm Neither Lui, Rapana or Sia made the Daily Telegraph list of players over $250k a season. Which was apparently the best effort yet by journalists to get player payment information.
Do you, or anyone else know if there is a link online for this piece?
I’m trying to do a search. But I no longer have Daily Telegraph access. It was over a Saturday and Sunday special. The print edition had a longer table of details above $250k (or thereabouts). It listed a range of mid range players from the Raiders. The top 100 players list (which was the related article had Wighton, Papa, Hodgson and Croker from memory).

Pretty sure we discussed it on GH last year.
I did a search and could only find the Top 100 list. No.100 was Addo-Carr at $480k. He wasn't the highest paid winger though. Sivo and Oates each on $550k then Fergo on $500k. I recall the list of players outside the top 100 in the printed copy of the paper. Couldn't find it online.

Raiders players on the top 100 list were:

27. Jack Wighton $800k*
56. Josh Papalii $660k
60. Josh Hodgson $650k
70. Elliott Whitehead $620k
73. Jarrod Croker $600k
82. Joe Tapine $550k

* Increase to $900k in 2021
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Botman »

BJ wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:58 pm
Botman wrote:
BJ wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:14 pm Neither Lui, Rapana or Sia made the Daily Telegraph list of players over $250k a season. Which was apparently the best effort yet by journalists to get player payment information.
Do you, or anyone else know if there is a link online for this piece?
I’m trying to do a search. But I no longer have Daily Telegraph access. It was over a Saturday and Sunday special. The print edition had a longer table of details above $250k (or thereabouts). It listed a range of mid range players from the Raiders. The top 100 players list (which was the related article had Wighton, Papa, Hodgson and Croker from memory).

Pretty sure we discussed it on GH last year.
Yeah it’s been mentioned a few times
I’ve tried to find a copy of myself
Would be a handy resource to to refer back to, but seems like it’s not to be :(
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Canberra Milk »

That list concerns me a bit re premiership window. We won't be able to keep Joe Tarps for 550k...
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

I have to laugh loud when I read some of the comments. So we want to sign Dufty now, who has had a few good games this year, but has largely been inconsistent throughout his career ?

I think we should be looking at a strong and fast winger, with the hope that Semi or Bailey being able to show progress and consistency on the other wing. Someone like the Hammer. The centres should be Scott and Kris.

Croker, Raps, Dumanis, Sia - love them all, but this should be the last year for them. I understand Croker's contract situation but there's a way to tell people to either retire or look elsewhere when under contract. If Raps is really on $200,000 then he can stay as backup but that must be communicated to him.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Please tell me Croker's contract is front loaded and it tapers away every year.

Having 2.4 million locked up in arguably your weakest player, and in the backline no less; is a recipe for pain and a monumental miscalculation from a hitherto top notch retention and recruitment team under Ricky.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Northern Raider wrote:
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 2:01 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:43 pm
afgtnk wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:32 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 12, 2021, 1:30 pm How much are they on?
Enough to make decent savings on, if and when they're replaced, to make a sizeable contribution towards the signing of a guy like Dufty I'd say.

Jordan Rapana especially would not be on peanuts taking one year contracts. No chance IMO.
I doubt Rapana was seeing a flood of big money offers coming his way. A 1 year deal on a conservative amount was probably enough for him to stay.

Lui was a fringe player when he signed. Depth middle forwards don't command that much. His status now as an Origin player could bump up his worth but again, I don't think there was much competition for his signature. I wouldn't even guess what Sia is on.

Theoretically you could replace 3 guys on $300k with 3 nobodies on minimum and save around $600k. Problem there is we've already got a bunch of guys on minimum who are not proven 1st graders. To add more is a very risky play, especially with high injury rates we see now.
That theory in your first paragraph didn't really work with a guy like Jarrod Croker for example though, did it.

Rapa would undoubtedly be asking for multi year contracts from us. Of course, he's not getting them. I have no doubt he's sacrificing longer term security for higher short term pay, likely because we're not prepared to take the risk on the outlay for the requested commitment, and he's not willing to accept the lesser benefit.

If CNK took ~350k p.a. on a multi year contract, I have no doubt whatsoever Jordy is on minimum 400k on his one years. Take them both out and you can land Dufty.
Firstly, I don't see any parallels with Croker here so not going to get into that.

So let's for arguments sake say those amounts are correct. We offload CNk to another club at his full contract value of $350k and don't re-sign Rapana on $400k. That's $750k less the cost of Rapana's replacement. That would still need to be around $200k-$250k as you won't be able to keep a regular starter in 1st grade on less than that. Whether its the player signed to replace him or Valemei, Timoko etc promoted. Net result is $500k-$550k offer for Dufty. I don't see him packing his thermal underwear and moving to Canberra for that amount.
NR bringing the realism.

CNK is unders for the quality of fullback he brings. You want to be replacing him with someone you consider better. Be prepared to take a huge chunk of cap space out of your squad.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Boomercm »

CNK is massive unders @ 350k.

WIlliam Kennedy is off contract this year. He's having a break out year, and he would probably froth at the chance to come to a good club. 300-400k might be realistic.

He might just be having an aberration good period though. Careers have been built on same or less (Moylan springs to mind)
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Botman »

If im moving on from CNK, it HAS to be for a guy who can ball play
if you ignore ball playing, CNK is one of the best fullbacks in the comp and we'd be mad to move on from him.

Kennedy is playing very well but im not seeing much ball playing from him. And the small sample size is a risk.

Im a keen adovocate for finding an upgrade at fullback, i really think we need that. I think it might be the most crutial aspect of red zone football in 2021. But you cant make a move from CNK from someone else if they're a 5/6/7 out of 10 ball player. Because he's too good at all the other aspects of fullback play. To make the move, we need to be getting a 8+/10 ball player to justify the move and the cost imo.

William Kennedy is not that based on what i've seen so far. And yes, he's young and could develop but im kind of done with trying to develop a guy. If we can get someone who solves the problems, do it, take the gamble and try and win a comp... otherwise you stick with CNK and hope that you hang around long enough in the top 4 that things align perfectly for a premiership

There is a real strong argument to say the best way to win one is to always be in the hunt
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by afgtnk »

Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 9:46 pm If im moving on from CNK, it HAS to be for a guy who can ball play
if you ignore ball playing, CNK is one of the best fullbacks in the comp and we'd be mad to move on from him.

Kennedy is playing very well but im not seeing much ball playing from him. And the small sample size is a risk.

Im a keen adovocate for finding an upgrade at fullback, i really think we need that. I think it might be the most crutial aspect of red zone football in 2021. But you cant make a move from CNK from someone else if they're a 5/6/7 out of 10 ball player. Because he's too good at all the other aspects of fullback play. To make the move, we need to be getting a 8+/10 ball player to justify the move and the cost imo.

William Kennedy is not that based on what i've seen so far. And yes, he's young and could develop but im kind of done with trying to develop a guy. If we can get someone who solves the problems, do it, take the gamble and try and win a comp... otherwise you stick with CNK and hope that you hang around long enough in the top 4 that things align perfectly for a premiership

There is a real strong argument to say the best way to win one is to always be in the hunt
Support play
Speed, threat as a ball runner

2-3 out of 10 tops I'd say in those aspects
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BadnMean
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by BadnMean »

CNK is a mid tier FB.

Yes, defensively very good, outstanding. But Teddy, Trbo, Paps, Latrell, Gutho, RTS have daylight between them and CNK. Some of them are no slouches defensively either btw + great support players, passers, creators or ball runners. They are also 8+s at their strengths. They only one I'd say is questionable defensively is Paps, but he's a 9 with speed and support play and good enough at setting up a try.

So that's comfortably 6 above him, leaving him a middle bracket FB, with the likes of Edwards, Kennedy and Dufty, who all have some real strengths but also some big holes in their game, compared to the top bracket. He is good value, because guys in this bracket could be on anywhere from 300-500k with those still on the way up potentially commanding more in future.

Anyway he saves a try most games. We'll see if our defence turn to water without his direction and energy back there these next few weeks.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

The fact that CNK is on significantly less than someone like Cotric speaks volumes.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by GreenMachine »

BadnMean wrote: April 13, 2021, 8:43 am CNK is a mid tier FB.

Yes, defensively very good, outstanding. But Teddy, Trbo, Paps, Latrell, Gutho, RTS have daylight between them and CNK. Some of them are no slouches defensively either btw + great support players, passers, creators or ball runners. They are also 8+s at their strengths. They only one I'd say is questionable defensively is Paps, but he's a 9 with speed and support play and good enough at setting up a try.

So that's comfortably 6 above him, leaving him a middle bracket FB, with the likes of Edwards, Kennedy and Dufty, who all have some real strengths but also some big holes in their game, compared to the top bracket. He is good value, because guys in this bracket could be on anywhere from 300-500k with those still on the way up potentially commanding more in future.

Anyway he saves a try most games. We'll see if our defence turn to water without his direction and energy back there these next few weeks.
I'd say that's a fair assessment of where he stands among the best fullbacks.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by zim »

We're going to lose a few old people next year.
Brett Morris is old.

We should sign Brett Morris.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Riaan »

CNK is pretty much being used as a battering ram by our team, which ATM is leaving him pretty much physically spent. Would be interesting to see if other aspects of his game would improve if a little bit of the load was taken from him?
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: April 12, 2021, 9:46 pm If im moving on from CNK, it HAS to be for a guy who can ball play
if you ignore ball playing, CNK is one of the best fullbacks in the comp and we'd be mad to move on from him.

Kennedy is playing very well but im not seeing much ball playing from him. And the small sample size is a risk.

Im a keen adovocate for finding an upgrade at fullback, i really think we need that. I think it might be the most crutial aspect of red zone football in 2021. But you cant make a move from CNK from someone else if they're a 5/6/7 out of 10 ball player. Because he's too good at all the other aspects of fullback play. To make the move, we need to be getting a 8+/10 ball player to justify the move and the cost imo.

William Kennedy is not that based on what i've seen so far. And yes, he's young and could develop but im kind of done with trying to develop a guy. If we can get someone who solves the problems, do it, take the gamble and try and win a comp... otherwise you stick with CNK and hope that you hang around long enough in the top 4 that things align perfectly for a premiership

There is a real strong argument to say the best way to win one is to always be in the hunt
Unpopular thought, and I suspect I know your thoughts, but, would u give Milf 500k to play FB?
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Canberra Milk »

Riaan wrote: April 14, 2021, 3:34 pm CNK is pretty much being used as a battering ram by our team, which ATM is leaving him pretty much physically spent. Would be interesting to see if other aspects of his game would improve if a little bit of the load was taken from him?
Yeah well remember when he first came over, there was that highlights video of him carving up with a big step and jinking runs. Then in the first half of the season, he got a name for himself really on the back of his attack. I don't know what's happened - maybe it is as you said, he's doing *too much* of the tough stuff. Or maybe he's just been figured out because oppositions know all he can do is run, not pass. I don't know
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Canberra Milk wrote: April 15, 2021, 10:16 am
Riaan wrote: April 14, 2021, 3:34 pm CNK is pretty much being used as a battering ram by our team, which ATM is leaving him pretty much physically spent. Would be interesting to see if other aspects of his game would improve if a little bit of the load was taken from him?
Yeah well remember when he first came over, there was that highlights video of him carving up with a big step and jinking runs. Then in the first half of the season, he got a name for himself really on the back of his attack. I don't know what's happened - maybe it is as you said, he's doing *too much* of the tough stuff. Or maybe he's just been figured out because oppositions know all he can do is run, not pass. I don't know
I think a lot of it is training and game plan. We play a very defence-oriented, grind-heavy style of game these days, and have the last two and a bit seasons. And it's worked very well for us with a GF appearance and a prelim in the last two years. As they say, defence wins premierships.

But it's been at the expense of guys like Charnze's natural attacking ability. As you said, when he came to us he was a bit of a tryscoring freak and scored quite a bit for us in his early games. That seems to have dried up somewhat now as his game seems to really focus on keeping our defence together.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by BJ »

I’d put it more in the opposition working him out category.
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Re: Raiders player signing speculation 2021

Post by Botman »

Matt wrote: April 15, 2021, 7:41 am Unpopular thought, and I suspect I know your thoughts, but, would u give Milf 500k to play FB?
I would normally think that's a really good idea, but i think he's been in the good paddock too long. I cant see him every getting back into shape and getting his speed back to play fullback
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