Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by 1992 »

There were guys on the Front Row Forum a few days ago talking about how EDIT.

Poetry.
WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT'S BEEN
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote: February 4, 2021, 6:54 am If Young wins the battle for No. 11, I wonder if CHN makes the top 17. You might want him there for versatility, because you don’t think Young is at his best playing 80 minutes, at least not yet. But the other option is having three middles on the bench... and there are better middles in the squad than CHN.
I actually think CHN is a better bench option than starter, as he can come on with limited minutes and make stuff happen in attack.

He needs to significantly improve his defence before I'm happy with him spending long minutes on the edge.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

gergreg wrote: February 3, 2021, 9:48 pm Let's hope his form improvement was him getting more comfortable in the NRL rather than the actual position he was playing?

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That's why I'm willing to have a look at him on the edge, even thought I agree with Botman about where he has shown ability on the park so far.

The fact he's hunting for it makes me more open to the idea that he is confident he has more to show on the edge, which hasn't come across so far.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

Wiki Special wrote: February 3, 2021, 8:09 pm
gangrenous wrote: February 2, 2021, 6:57 pm Here are some words that rhyme with Corey - gory, story, allegory, Montessori, drink driving of the high range category
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

greeneyed wrote: February 4, 2021, 6:54 am If Young wins the battle for No. 11, I wonder if CHN makes the top 17. You might want him there for versatility, because you don’t think Young is at his best playing 80 minutes, at least not yet. But the other option is having three middles on the bench... and there are better middles in the squad than CHN.
If you want some running presence and offload ability coming on to rip a team up then CHN is a pretty good bench option too imo. I think he's actually the most destructive ball carrier of the bench options (assuming Tapine is a start) and his offload numbers at his best are right up there with anyone in the game - good ones after bending the line too, not just dumped out.

As a running third forward alongside Lui, Sutton or Guler etc I think he's a pretty good versatile option who is also genuinely the most attacking option. Pretty good balance for a bench alongside who else we have.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

Despite my advocacy for Young to be considered a viable second row alternative (I've already seen more than enough from him in that role to convince me that he is a mobile defender and can do some real damage running on an edge), I still think CHN at his best is a genuine weapon for us in the second row.

Harawira-Naera obviously adds more ballplaying ability than Young and he has a genuine offload in traffic. His defence can be a bit suspect but hopefully this season he is more like Bronson Harrison at his best, rather than Harrison at his worst. He put a ton of effort in last season, which is more than can be said about Harrison towards the end of his tenure.

I love the **** out of Hudson Young though. Without Tapine in the squad, he'd be an absolute no-brainer in that lock role IMO.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Belcher#1 »

Seiffert82 wrote: February 4, 2021, 3:46 pm Despite my advocacy for Young to be considered a viable second row alternative (I've already seen more than enough from him in that role to convince me that he is a mobile defender and can do some real damage running on an edge), I still think CHN at his best is a genuine weapon for us in the second row.

Harawira-Naera obviously adds more ballplaying ability than Young and he has a genuine offload in traffic. His defence can be a bit suspect but hopefully this season he is more like Bronson Harrison at his best, rather than Harrison at his worst. He put a ton of effort in last season, which is more than can be said about Harrison towards the end of his tenure.
You'd want to hope CHN is a weapon for the team, the guy's making half a mil a season. He's going to need to have a bateman level season or I can see Ricky pushing him out the door at season's end.
CHN has always been lazy in defense his whole career but makes up for it by being a genuine x-factor in attack. Really looking forward to seeing how he performs
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by zim »

Where's the 500k figure come from?
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

Belcher#1 wrote: February 4, 2021, 5:26 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: February 4, 2021, 3:46 pm Despite my advocacy for Young to be considered a viable second row alternative (I've already seen more than enough from him in that role to convince me that he is a mobile defender and can do some real damage running on an edge), I still think CHN at his best is a genuine weapon for us in the second row.

Harawira-Naera obviously adds more ballplaying ability than Young and he has a genuine offload in traffic. His defence can be a bit suspect but hopefully this season he is more like Bronson Harrison at his best, rather than Harrison at his worst. He put a ton of effort in last season, which is more than can be said about Harrison towards the end of his tenure.
You'd want to hope CHN is a weapon for the team, the guy's making half a mil a season. He's going to need to have a bateman level season or I can see Ricky pushing him out the door at season's end.
CHN has always been lazy in defense his whole career but makes up for it by being a genuine x-factor in attack. Really looking forward to seeing how he performs
So far i give him 0.095, which is significantly over par.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

zim wrote:Where's the 500k figure come from?
Belcher#1 just said it

A post above yours
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by afgtnk »

Still not on enough to afford an Uber though

Gotta be on some real Lionel Messi, LeBron James type dosh to be able to fork out for that
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by gangrenous »

Would they be allowed to Uber? What are their public contact rules these days?
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

No special rules for players at the moment.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by zim »

The Nickman wrote: February 4, 2021, 7:38 pm
zim wrote:Where's the 500k figure come from?
Belcher#1 just said it

A post above yours
Ah gotcha. I need to pay more attention.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by kiwi raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: February 4, 2021, 9:29 am
gergreg wrote: February 3, 2021, 9:48 pm Let's hope his form improvement was him getting more comfortable in the NRL rather than the actual position he was playing?

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It's beyond me as to why this factor gets overlooked.

Then again, it was also beyond me why Young was written off by a number of people after a dozen games.
Also didn't he only go back to the edge for one game, the cronulla game?
where yea sure he wasn't outstanding but he was surrounded a bunch of kids and reserve graders.
I think everyone needs to give him a bit more time to shine on the edge, i remember watching a mounties( i know its reserve grade) game in i think 2019 where he looked like bulldogs version of SBW out on the edge.
The balance of our squad would look a hell of a lot better if he was a genuine gun edge, given we've only really got Whitehead and a fairly average version of CHN so far and about a million middle's, lets give him time to prove it one way or another
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

I’d add he was a weapon on the edge in Jersey Flegg in 2018 as well.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

The main thing that let him down early on was his lack of discipline.

He got more touches in the middle because that's where our game plan is focussed. Remarkably (sarcasm) we've seen the same thing with Tapine and Papalii. Suddenly we have all these quality second rowers looking a million dollars playing in the middle. All three are just maturing and getting more opportunity to use the ball playing in the middle.

Doesn't make Hudson Young a poor second rower. It's incumbent on our halves to use him to his strengths if he needs to play on that edge.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by kiwi raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: February 5, 2021, 6:55 am The main thing that let him down early on was his lack of discipline.

He got more touches in the middle because that's where our game plan is focussed. Remarkably (sarcasm) we've seen the same thing with Tapine and Papalii. Suddenly we have all these quality second rowers looking a million dollars playing in the middle. All three are just maturing and getting more opportunity to use the ball playing in the middle.

Doesn't make Hudson Young a poor second rower. It's incumbent on our halves to use him to his strengths if he needs to play on that edge.
Thats a very good point re Papalii and Tapine, our second rowers do not get a lot of good ball from our halves, even whitehead whos one of the best edges in the comp at times struggles to get involved(and looked really good when he played middle for a few games a couple of years back) and that's through no fault of Whitehead, as soon as he gets decent ball he's a threat.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

kiwi raider wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:57 am
Seiffert82 wrote: February 5, 2021, 6:55 am The main thing that let him down early on was his lack of discipline.

He got more touches in the middle because that's where our game plan is focussed. Remarkably (sarcasm) we've seen the same thing with Tapine and Papalii. Suddenly we have all these quality second rowers looking a million dollars playing in the middle. All three are just maturing and getting more opportunity to use the ball playing in the middle.

Doesn't make Hudson Young a poor second rower. It's incumbent on our halves to use him to his strengths if he needs to play on that edge.
Thats a very good point re Papalii and Tapine, our second rowers do not get a lot of good ball from our halves, even whitehead whos one of the best edges in the comp at times struggles to get involved(and looked really good when he played middle for a few games a couple of years back) and that's through no fault of Whitehead, as soon as he gets decent ball he's a threat.
That's the thing about John Bateman in 2019. Everyone was raving about his unorthodox game and his competitive nature. All that is true.

What is also true is that Bateman actively went looking for the ball. He didn't always wait for it to come to him. That didn't happen so much last year and I also think injuries and off field distractions impacted on his game.

I digress though. I think Hudson Young is the type of player that does the job that his coach asks of him. Stuart loves the **** out of him and it's easy to see why. That's a fact. Young will never be a ball player like CHN, nor will he be unorthodox like Bateman. He runs hard, tackles aggressively, works off the ball, always looks to gets involved and IMO has really good footwork. Hopefully Williams uses that if Young plays on the edge again.
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Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BJ »

Agree on Bateman going looking for the ball. I’d certainly like to see Hodgson and our halves spread the ball quicker to the edges. It’s something we saw Lui and Papa do sometimes more than the spine last season.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

BJ wrote: February 5, 2021, 10:32 am Agree on Bateman going looking for the ball. I’d certainly like to see Hodgson and our halves spread the ball quicker to the edges. It’s something we saw Lui and Papa do sometimes more than the spine last season.
As harsh as it is to say, that's the reason I wasn't particularly devastated when Hodgson got injured (and said so at the time). His over-playing of the ball destroyed any structure we had on the edges. It was terrible. We looked so much better with him out.

My only hope is that he leaned from that and he will now rely on the halves more.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Josh Papalii looked a million dollars when he was playing in the second row too - one of the best forwards in the game. In fact, he looked **** anytime he played in the middle prior to 2019, IMO mainly because he didn't have the extra size that he does now.

One of the dumbest comparisons I've seen made tbh.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Botman »

It maybe that Hudson Young goes on to develop into a stud edge forward

But he’s shown very little in that position to date, especially when compared to his level of play and his impact in the middle. And that’s not opinion, that’s just fact.

That isn’t the case with either Papalii, who was the best second rower in the world when he played there, or Tapine who had truly dominant games as an edge.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

afgtnk wrote: February 5, 2021, 2:26 pm Josh Papalii looked a million dollars when he was playing in the second row too - one of the best forwards in the game. In fact, he looked **** anytime he played in the middle prior to 2019, IMO mainly because he didn't have the extra size that he does now.

One of the dumbest comparisons I've seen made tbh.
Righto champ.

Papalii was a fantastic second rower, albeit somewhat inconsistent, who was a bench second rower for Queensland for a number of seasons and in and out of the origin team 4 or 6 times over a 6 year period (look up his record). He has since been transformed into the best front rower in the competition and arguably the first forward picked in any Qld or Australian team these days.

Tapine always had talent and played test footy for NZ in the second row, but he went to another level last season. What do you have to say about that?

Fact is, you wrote Hudson Young off entirely after a handful of games. Doesn't say a great deal about your judgement.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: February 5, 2021, 4:16 pm It maybe that Hudson Young goes on to develop into a stud edge forward

But he’s shown very little in that position to date, especially when compared to his level of play and his impact in the middle. And that’s not opinion, that’s just fact.

That isn’t the case with either Papalii, who was the best second rower in the world when he played there, or Tapine who had truly dominant games as an edge.
That's a load of BS. He was a stud second rower but couldn't even lock down a spot in the QLD Origin team - in fact he only started one game for QLD in the second row over a 6 year period before moving to the front row. That's a fact.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

To be fair, Queensland only ever played Papalii off the bench up the middle, I don't remember him ever getting a crack on the edge.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

Doesn't sound like Queensland regarded him as the best second rower in the state, let alone the world then.

He had a few stints out wide off the bench early on, but yes, he was mainly used up the middle.

When he was first used in the front row by Stuart he was entirely unfit and pretty rubbish. Once he knuckled down he was unstoppable.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by gergreg »

He played for Australia the same year he debuted for Queensland. It's amazing how many NRL experts/journalists claimed he had come out of nowhere last year.

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by afgtnk »

This guy's having the world's biggest bath.

Josh Papalii was one of the best second rowers in the comp, consistently - irrespective of how many times he was picked there for QLD during that period. Multiple Meninga medals. Voted POTY on here multiple times. All whilst on the edge.

Why's he now a more permanent fixture at rep level? Simple. Older, more experienced players have gone and there's now less talent to chose from than before. He entered Origin when QLD was in an all dominant era and didn't like to change teams too much. That's now changed. It's not something to be used again his talent and performances at club level. It has little to nothing to do with it.

I can only assume that you're a relation of Hudson's or have some kind of money riding on him at this point. He's done very well playing in the middle and looks to be a great prospect in the position, from a small sample of games. At second rower, he has been distinctly average and managed to make no waves - again, small sample, but larger than his time in the middle. Those are the facts, whether you choose to accept them or not.

Contrary to your belief, I actually haven't written him off there. Rather, I want him to give everything he has in the position where he looks like a different calibre of player. He may still end up a good second rower - I don't know exactly. What I do know, however, is that he plays like he's three feet taller from what we've seen of him in the middle so far. Ultimately, that's what I see benefiting both Hudson and the team more, which is what this discussion should really be about.

If you rather the guy be an ordinary edge, as opposed to a very good, possibly representative middle, then there's definitely some kind of agenda at play here.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

afgtnk wrote: February 5, 2021, 5:40 pm If you rather the guy be an ordinary edge, as opposed to a very good, possibly representative middle, then there's definitely some kind of agenda at play here.
Twisting my words as usual. I'm not saying anything of the sort.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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He played middle for QLD because he was capable of doing so and they were lacking up front and had viable options on the edge.

Anyone arguing that Josh Papalii wasnt one of, if not the best edge forward in the world isnt worth arguing with. Honestly that is a mind numblingly dumb
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Wiki Special »

In regards to Papalii as a second rower I think he was most certainly the best 2nd rower in the world in 2016. As a QLD'er it baffled me he never got more opportunities for the Maroons starting on the edge. The knock apparently was his lateral movement in defence.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by simo »

Papali playing middle for queensland off the bench was very similar to wighton lining up at centre for nsw. They are part if the 17 best players available and the only ones capable to fill that role.
This discussions getting a bit out of hand. Hudson young is an incredibly enthusiastic talent with high energy and just enough psycho. Sometimes too much. On an edge he seemed to focus on his role and knuckle down on what he was asked to do. In the middle he looked like he was just told to unleash hell. I hope hes given a bit more of that directive on the edge this time.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by kiwi raider »

He's gone from one of the best edge forwards in the game to one of the most influential players in the comp in the middle.
I prefer the guy that dictates the entire momentum of the game to the guy that makes a few highlight reel plays on the edge(due to lack of ball/opportunities from the halves, nothing to do with papas quality. I'm fairly certain this is siefferts point).
The quality of our overall performances improved dramatically almost as soon as he went to the middle.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by zim »

Wiki Special wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:21 pm In regards to Papalii as a second rower I think he was most certainly the best 2nd rower in the world in 2016. As a QLD'er it baffled me he never got more opportunities for the Maroons starting on the edge. The knock apparently was his lateral movement in defence.
I believe it comes down to QLD spirit or lack there of. If he played for NSW we would have backed our players to get the job done in their proper positions. Not shifted obvious quality around to cover for other perceived weaknesses.
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