Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

Keen to know what the “rap sheet” he had before us entails
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by raiderskater »

He couldn't even go a single goddamn year without ****ing up. It hadn't even been a full 12 months since his previous screw-up. And after that sob-story about giving up the alcohol to get him re-registered, too.

He came here with no credits in the bank. Not even a year later and he's at negative credits. If this guy steps out of line at all, he should be gone. Clearly, he doesn't respect the club or the opportunity the club has given him.

Yes, guys like Papa and Jack and even Horse have also messed up - but they have credit with us. Reason for us to give them another chance. CHN has not given us any reason to treat him so kindly.
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Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

Again, what was his last “screw up”?

I’d be super keen for somebody to fill me in on this one. From where I see it, he’s been caught drink driving ONCE, which is a bad thing to do, but his suspension is two matches. Two matches, that’s it. The punishment fits the crime but he’ll be back in first grade before we know it. Certainly wasn’t any worse than what Jack Wighton did.

You guys are carrying on like he has a history of doing this sort of stuff.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 4:28 pm Again, what was his last “screw up”?

I’d be super keen for somebody to fill me in on this one. From where I see it, he’s been caught drink driving ONCE, which is a bad thing to do, but his suspension is two matches. Two matches, that’s it. The punishment fits the crime but he’ll be back in first grade before we know it. Certainly wasn’t any worse than what Jack Wighton did.

You guys are carrying on like he has a history of doing this sort of stuff.
You know what his last screw up was- major reputational and financial damage to club (arguably the game). Came as a result of breaking club rules/trip guidelines.

This latest one is less of a media hoo-ha but arguably dumber and more dangerous- driving around pissed on xmas eve. It's a hassle and distraction the club don't need and now in order to enforce a culture the club suffers by not having a playing resource available for the opening rounds. The right edge was a mess last year due to injuries and poor form and lack of continuity. His unavailability doesn't get it off to a great start this year either.

Yeah he's copped a fair punishment and he'll get a chance to play eventually and put it behind him. They're not similar things he's done but considering how is 2020 off season derailed his career and kicked his club in the nuts when it was down I'd hoped he'd make a couple of smarter decisions in his 2021 off season. Not quite a pattern yet, but he's laying some dots...
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

BadnMean wrote:
The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 4:28 pm Again, what was his last “screw up”?

I’d be super keen for somebody to fill me in on this one. From where I see it, he’s been caught drink driving ONCE, which is a bad thing to do, but his suspension is two matches. Two matches, that’s it. The punishment fits the crime but he’ll be back in first grade before we know it. Certainly wasn’t any worse than what Jack Wighton did.

You guys are carrying on like he has a history of doing this sort of stuff.
You know what his last screw up was- major reputational and financial damage to club (arguably the game). Came as a result of breaking club rules/trip guidelines.

This latest one is less of a media hoo-ha but arguably dumber and more dangerous- driving around pissed on xmas eve. It's a hassle and distraction the club don't need and now in order to enforce a culture the club suffers by not having a playing resource available for the opening rounds. The right edge was a mess last year due to injuries and poor form and lack of continuity. His unavailability doesn't get it off to a great start this year either.

Yeah he's copped a fair punishment and he'll get a chance to play eventually and put it behind him. They're not similar things he's done but considering how is 2020 off season derailed his career and kicked his club in the nuts when it was down I'd hoped he'd make a couple of smarter decisions in his 2021 off season. Not quite a pattern yet, but he's laying some dots...
Wait, wait... wasn’t he cleared of that and the nrl said the bulldogs wrongfully punished him?

If not, why else did he break his contract early?
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

Corey Harawira-Naera engaged in no illegal conduct, but the NRL still issued a punishment for breaching club rules. The appeal process did not clear him, but reduced the punishment: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/07/13/jay ... statement/
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote:Corey Harawira-Naera engaged in no illegal conduct, but the NRL still issued a punishment for breaching club rules. The appeal process did not clear him, but reduced the punishment: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/07/13/jay ... statement/
So... he engaged in no illegal conduct?

Roger that, thanks for clearing that up for us all, GE.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

People seem to forget that there was no illegal conduct, so I mentioned it.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote:People seem to forget that there was no illegal conduct, so I mentioned it.
Yeah, people are really carrying on here like he’s got a history of breaking the law, when in fact all he’s done is one drink driving offence, which he’s rightfully being punished for.

Sheesh. Give a guy a second chance.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 5:17 pm
BadnMean wrote:
The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 4:28 pm Again, what was his last “screw up”?

I’d be super keen for somebody to fill me in on this one. From where I see it, he’s been caught drink driving ONCE, which is a bad thing to do, but his suspension is two matches. Two matches, that’s it. The punishment fits the crime but he’ll be back in first grade before we know it. Certainly wasn’t any worse than what Jack Wighton did.

You guys are carrying on like he has a history of doing this sort of stuff.
You know what his last screw up was- major reputational and financial damage to club (arguably the game). Came as a result of breaking club rules/trip guidelines.

This latest one is less of a media hoo-ha but arguably dumber and more dangerous- driving around pissed on xmas eve. It's a hassle and distraction the club don't need and now in order to enforce a culture the club suffers by not having a playing resource available for the opening rounds. The right edge was a mess last year due to injuries and poor form and lack of continuity. His unavailability doesn't get it off to a great start this year either.

Yeah he's copped a fair punishment and he'll get a chance to play eventually and put it behind him. They're not similar things he's done but considering how is 2020 off season derailed his career and kicked his club in the nuts when it was down I'd hoped he'd make a couple of smarter decisions in his 2021 off season. Not quite a pattern yet, but he's laying some dots...
Wait, wait... wasn’t he cleared of that and the nrl said the bulldogs wrongfully punished him?

If not, why else did he break his contract early?
Short answer- no he wasn't. Not at all. He broke his contract early because trust between he and the club had completely degraded to the point any working relationship was... unworkable.

We're not "carrying on as if he breaks the law all the time". I specifically mentioned he was in trouble for "breaking club rules/trip guidelines" in an effort to avoid that particular diversion. Then spent the rest of my post specifically explaining the point about the link between poor off season decisions leading to damage to teams and clubs.

He's here for his "second chance", just making a shaky fist of it at the moment. Hope he does better.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: March 7, 2021, 1:21 pm Harawira-Naera was in the bottom 10 forwards in terms of tackle efficiency last year (84 per cent). Only five forwards in the competition had a lower tackle efficiency rate. That was down on 86 per cent the previous year with the Bulldogs. It's certainly an area for concern.
Last year he was completely out of shape because he hadnt played, and was playing out of position to help us during a middle third injury crisis.

Worth noting, Kikau ranked in at 86%, only marginally higher... As i've said on this site before, that's is stylistically the player he is. So you'd best come to terms with it. He's a ball runner, primarily an offense weapon. That's what he is. It's what he's always been, likely what he'll alway be. If he can get himself back to 86-90% and he delivers with ball in hand what he's been brought here to do, he'll be a very good player for us. He's not Kikau, but few are. He's been brought here to be Kikau-lite though.

As far his off the field issues are concerns, he's committed a very serious offence in drink driving. The situation that led to him leaving the bulldogs was a PR matter, and nothing more and the only reason he's at the club was he no longer felt he could play for the club. Not because of any wrong doing.

There was no illegal or immoral action taken, it was all above board and we'd have never heard of it (and nor should we since what two consenting adults do with themselves is none of our damn business) if his teammate didnt actually cross a very serious line.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

So Strike One, drink driving then?
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 6:30 pm So Strike One, drink driving then?
Correct.
Not a great start, and certainly not something you want to see, but sadly it's very common
Hopefully a lesson learnt for him and Hors and on we march

I hope they both bust their **** and work their way back into the ASAP. I think our best 17 has them both in it, but changing a winning team is always tough. They may need to wait for injury and suspensions to open the door for them if we start out hot.
Which is healthy for the team.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by raiderskater »

The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 6:12 pm
greeneyed wrote:People seem to forget that there was no illegal conduct, so I mentioned it.
Yeah, people are really carrying on here like he’s got a history of breaking the law, when in fact all he’s done is one drink driving offence, which he’s rightfully being punished for.

Sheesh. Give a guy a second chance.
I said screw up (and **** up, to be fair). I never said he did anything illegal.

But to prance around your high horse claiming he never screwed up because it wasn't illegal is a bit far even for you.

HE SCREWED UP. He broke club protocol, got on the booze, and brought a woman back to the hotel against club policy. And in doing so, brought the game into disrepute. THIS IS A SCREW UP, no matter how you try to paint it.

A few months later he sobs to the NRL about giving up alcohol and we give him his second chance.

And not even a year after the first screw up he breaks the law. Screw up two, and less than 12 months later.

Leaving aside all the reasons drink-driving is horrendous and a two-match ban is a joke, it shows a complete lack of respect to our club and the second chance we gave him. He couldn't even go 12 months!
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

Yup, Strike One, drink driving.

Hopefully he learns his lesson from this after he serves his rightful punishment of two weeks.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

CHN certainly broke team protocols and there were serious reputational issues... even after appeal, he was banned for a significant period. There’s more than one strike, we should not pretend otherwise. He apologised at length for the behaviour, more than once. Certainly no illegal behaviour, I certainly was happy he was signed. But we can’t pretend there was no prior issue.

He received harsher punishment than Horsburgh, in part, because he had a prior behavioural issue: https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/03/06/nrl ... eet-fight/
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

So why did he break his contract with the bulldogs early?
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: March 7, 2021, 6:22 pm
greeneyed wrote: March 7, 2021, 1:21 pm Harawira-Naera was in the bottom 10 forwards in terms of tackle efficiency last year (84 per cent). Only five forwards in the competition had a lower tackle efficiency rate. That was down on 86 per cent the previous year with the Bulldogs. It's certainly an area for concern.
Last year he was completely out of shape because he hadnt played, and was playing out of position to help us during a middle third injury crisis.

Worth noting, Kikau ranked in at 86%, only marginally higher... As i've said on this site before, that's is stylistically the player he is. So you'd best come to terms with it. He's a ball runner, primarily an offense weapon. That's what he is. It's what he's always been, likely what he'll alway be. If he can get himself back to 86-90% and he delivers with ball in hand what he's been brought here to do, he'll be a very good player for us. He's not Kikau, but few are. He's been brought here to be Kikau-lite though.
I understand the sort of player he is. But he needs to improve his defence on the past two seasons if he’s to feature regularly in first grade. He has not been a “middle of the pack” defender the past two seasons. Can he improve? I’m sure he could, but he has to prove he deserves the spot through what he does on field. I’m more than happy to see Hudson Young given first chance, simply on the basis of what the players did on field in 2020. And then there’s the matter of a suspension.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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greeneyed wrote: March 7, 2021, 6:53 pm CHN certainly broke team protocols and there were serious reputational issues... even after appeal, he was banned for a significant period. There’s more than one strike, we should not pretend otherwise. He apologised at length for the behaviour, more than once. Certainly no illegal behaviour, I certainly was happy he was signed. But we can’t pretend there was no prior issue.

He received harsher punishment than Horsburgh, in part, because he had a prior behavioural issue: https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/03/06/nrl ... eet-fight/

The repuational issues are primarily due to Okunbor and his behaviour on that trip. The actions of him and CHN were, to be frank, worlds apart. As said, if Okunbor had not done what we did, no one would have the faintest idea what CHN did with another consenting adult.

As for his punishment, yes, he got a harsher punishment due to priors. But contextually we know that "prior" is a PR matter, nothing more. Which is probably why it was ONLY 1 week longer. It's harsher but by thinest of margins. And i would argue that is because the NRL knows from a PR persepctive they have to do that to avoid any headlines, but they kind of low key know he got rail roaded.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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greeneyed wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:00 pm I understand the sort of player he is. But he needs to improve his defence on the past two seasons if he’s to feature regularly in first grade.
No. He really doesnt. He needs to be the player he's been brought in to be. That being a powerful impactful edge ball runnner
If he does that, no one who actually knows what they're watching will give the faintest **** about his defence, just as no one gave a single **** about what Whitehead does defensively. All CHN needs to do is be the player he was brought in here to be. And that's not a shut down defender

Im confident in our system, with our sqaud, he'll OK defensively. But im equally sure certain people on this forum have already stamped his card. And that's that. The narrative has been building now for a while and there is no stopping it.
Last edited by Botman on March 7, 2021, 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

I suspect a lot of his so-called defensive issues will clean up a fair bit with a full pre-season under his belt.

He came into the club last season fairly undercooked, shouldn’t be the case in 2021.
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Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote:
greeneyed wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:00 pm I understand the sort of player he is. But he needs to improve his defence on the past two seasons if he’s to feature regularly in first grade.
No. He really doesnt. He needs to be the player he's been brought in to be. That being a powerful impactful edge ball runnner
If he does that, no one who actually knows what they're watching will give the faintest **** about his defence, just as no one gave a single **** about what Whitehead does defensively. All CHN needs to do is be the player he was brought in here to be. And that's not a shut down defender

Im confident in our system, with our sqaud, he'll OK defensively. But im equally sure certain people on this forum have already stamped his card. And that's that. The narrative has been building now for a while and there is no stopping it.
Yeah, I can see him getting the Croker treatment now where he could stop eight tries in a row but as soon as he lets a rampaging Kikau cross the line with a bad read a new thread will be started.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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The train has already started. There is no stopping it.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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There is also this weird thing on the GH, we really press hard on edge defenders when they concede a try... as if the dudes on the other side of the field arent getting paid too

Matt Cooper and Jamie Lyon are arguably the best edge defenders i've seen... pre double knee reco Campese was right there too. But those guys all got beat... and more often than you'd like to remember. It happens. Misreads, mistackles etc... Kikau cant read defence for a ****. No one cares. The edge is a position where it's about net value... how much more do your outside 3rd players give you than they cost you. And if CHN is the player we brought him into be, he'll be well on the plus side of that.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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The facts are inconvenient I know, for someone who told us CHN was a “middle of the pack” defender. He’s not, based on the numbers for the past two seasons. I’m sure he can improve if he works hard on it and I hope he does. But he’s actually got to get himself into the team first, given his two game suspension. He certainly needs to be better than the bottom 10-15 percent of forwards in defence. We know what the coach wants these days.
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Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote:There is also this weird thing on the GH, we really press hard on edge defenders when they concede a try... as if the dudes on the other side of the field arent getting paid too

Matt Cooper and Jamie Lyon are arguably the best edge defenders i've seen... pre double knee reco Campese was right there too. But those guys all got beat... and more often than you'd like to remember. It happens. Misreads, mistackles etc... Kikau cant read defence for a piece of ****. No one cares. The edge is a position where it's about net value... how much more do your outside 3rd players give you than they cost you. And if CHN is the player we brought him into be, he'll be well on the plus side of that.
It’s really strange, isn’t it? Like, our edges routinely give the opposition edges a bath, and the majority of teams score their points out wide, so it stands to reason that down the edges are where we’ll leak the most points, but when it happens... everyone loses their goddamned minds.

But they like to pick on select players, like Croker and now it seems CHN, while giving other players a free pass, such as Whitehead as you’ve previously mentioned, and Joey Leilua never copped much grief despite often coming up with some poor reads himself.

It’s bizarre.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote:The facts are inconvenient I know, for someone who told us CHN was a “middle of the pack” defender. He’s not, based on the numbers for the past two seasons. I’m sure he can improve if he works hard on it and I hope he does. But he’s actually got to get himself into the team first, given his two game suspension. He certainly needs to be better than the bottom 10-15 percent of forwards in defence. We know what the coach wants these days.
He an edge mate, he doesn’t play in the middle of the pack.
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greeneyed
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:41 pm
greeneyed wrote:The facts are inconvenient I know, for someone who told us CHN was a “middle of the pack” defender. He’s not, based on the numbers for the past two seasons. I’m sure he can improve if he works hard on it and I hope he does. But he’s actually got to get himself into the team first, given his two game suspension. He certainly needs to be better than the bottom 10-15 percent of forwards in defence. We know what the coach wants these days.
He an edge mate, he doesn’t play in the middle of the pack.
I had noticed. He’s in the bottom 15 per cent of second rowers in defence.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote:
The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:41 pm
greeneyed wrote:The facts are inconvenient I know, for someone who told us CHN was a “middle of the pack” defender. He’s not, based on the numbers for the past two seasons. I’m sure he can improve if he works hard on it and I hope he does. But he’s actually got to get himself into the team first, given his two game suspension. He certainly needs to be better than the bottom 10-15 percent of forwards in defence. We know what the coach wants these days.
He an edge mate, he doesn’t play in the middle of the pack.
I had noticed. He’s in the bottom 15 per cent of second rowers in defence.
So he’s in the top 86% then?
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greeneyed
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:43 pm
greeneyed wrote:
The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:41 pm
greeneyed wrote:The facts are inconvenient I know, for someone who told us CHN was a “middle of the pack” defender. He’s not, based on the numbers for the past two seasons. I’m sure he can improve if he works hard on it and I hope he does. But he’s actually got to get himself into the team first, given his two game suspension. He certainly needs to be better than the bottom 10-15 percent of forwards in defence. We know what the coach wants these days.
He an edge mate, he doesn’t play in the middle of the pack.
I had noticed. He’s in the bottom 15 per cent of second rowers in defence.
So he’s in the top 86% then?
But not in the top 85 per cent.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote:
The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:43 pm
greeneyed wrote:
The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:41 pm
greeneyed wrote:The facts are inconvenient I know, for someone who told us CHN was a “middle of the pack” defender. He’s not, based on the numbers for the past two seasons. I’m sure he can improve if he works hard on it and I hope he does. But he’s actually got to get himself into the team first, given his two game suspension. He certainly needs to be better than the bottom 10-15 percent of forwards in defence. We know what the coach wants these days.
He an edge mate, he doesn’t play in the middle of the pack.
I had noticed. He’s in the bottom 15 per cent of second rowers in defence.
So he’s in the top 86% then?
But not in the top 85 per cent.
Well... touché


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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Botman »

The Nickman wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:40 pm
But they like to pick on select players, like Croker and now it seems CHN, while giving other players a free pass, such as Whitehead as you’ve previously mentioned, and Joey Leilua never copped much grief despite often coming up with some poor reads himself.

It’s bizarre.
Very bizarre. It's not based on play. It's narrative driven.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
The Nickman
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

You might even call it “unconscious bias”?
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: March 7, 2021, 7:40 pm We know what the coach wants these days.
You evidently dont. You think Stuart signed him for his defensive prowess?

If the coach wanted a defensive specialist from CHN, then the mistake is his and he's an idiot. The coach is not an idiot, CHN has been brought in be the player he is. Aslong as he does that, he's going to be much maligned on the gh dot com dot au, but well respected by the coach who absolutely understands what he's looking for from CHN
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

1) Stating CHN has not really seemed to have made a great start at rehabbing his reputation here isn't some sort of campaign against him.

2) Some of the posters here who are expressing displeasure at his DUI charge are not mixing that up with his play style or playing strengths and weaknesses. They are just peeved some of his actions don't seem to be repaying the faith the club showed &the risk they took, given the controversy- I'll leave the fair and unfair aside as a separate issue because the fact from a club perspective is that signing him came with the risk of some blowback and negativity.

3) By conflating posters with different opinions about CHN's behaviour or his play into some sort of mindless unthinking pitchfork mob it shows a disrespect to them as individual posters. Maybe an unwillingness to engage with or accept different attitudes or ideas. It doesn't come across well. There are some worthwhile facts and opinions being shared by many.

Personally I think he was bought in during a crunch period as an unbelievably good get during the crisis we were in, when we were fishing for any warm forward. His attack will be a real point of difference on the right if he gets the spot.
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