Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Wiki Special »

zim wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:31 pm
Wiki Special wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:21 pm In regards to Papalii as a second rower I think he was most certainly the best 2nd rower in the world in 2016. As a QLD'er it baffled me he never got more opportunities for the Maroons starting on the edge. The knock apparently was his lateral movement in defence.
I believe it comes down to QLD spirit or lack there of. If he played for NSW we would have backed our players to get the job done in their proper positions. Not shifted obvious quality around to cover for other perceived weaknesses.
I think you have the two States mixed up when duscussing Spirit and Origin.

Anyway, back to Hudson Young - he has certainly played better in the middle at this stage of his NRL career. I hope he shows what he can do on tbe edge now and cements a starting spot there.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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simo wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:30 pm Papali playing middle for queensland off the bench was very similar to wighton lining up at centre for nsw. They are part if the 17 best players available and the only ones capable to fill that role.
This discussions getting a bit out of hand. Hudson young is an incredibly enthusiastic talent with high energy and just enough psycho. Sometimes too much. On an edge he seemed to focus on his role and knuckle down on what he was asked to do. In the middle he looked like he was just told to unleash hell. I hope hes given a bit more of that directive on the edge this time.
Exactly. Just jamming the best 17 together, and Papalii had the body to handle the rigors of a SOO middle forward game, and they needed him for that because he was backing up Scott and Myles at the back end of their careers and then having to clean up the mess Napa and whoever left him with to open things up.

It has ZERO to do with his play at edge. Such a strange hill to plant a flag on. Incredible really. He, Gillett and Cordner were the best 3 edge players in the game, and pending the year, you could order them any which way... mind you i doubt Cordner or Gillett could have overcome the Josh McFuckingCrone handicap the way Papalii did.

Re Young, for me his late footwork, which was the cataylst to creating so many impactful plays in the middle, was not effective on the edge. He's working against better athletes out there and his own athleticism wasnt a point of strength, the way it was in the middle. Whch isnt to say he cant be this year, or sometime going forward. It just didnt show up on game day in his time there. But it did immediately show up with him as a middle.

If he gets the first crack at the #11 spot because CHN is suspended and he proves himself to be an impactful player, by all means keep him there, and CHN can fill the tweener back-row/impact middle role off the bench. But his level of play on the edge last year... that ain't going to cut it. Im not wasting a talent like his on the edge when i have seen first hand his game changing ability in the middle
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Botman wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:42 pm
simo wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:30 pm Papali playing middle for queensland off the bench was very similar to wighton lining up at centre for nsw. They are part if the 17 best players available and the only ones capable to fill that role.
This discussions getting a bit out of hand. Hudson young is an incredibly enthusiastic talent with high energy and just enough psycho. Sometimes too much. On an edge he seemed to focus on his role and knuckle down on what he was asked to do. In the middle he looked like he was just told to unleash hell. I hope hes given a bit more of that directive on the edge this time.
Exactly. Just jamming the best 17 together, and Papalii had the body to handle the rigors of a SOO middle forward game, and they needed him for that because he was backing up Scott and Myles at the back end of their careers and then having to clean up the mess Napa and whoever left him with to open things up.

It has ZERO to do with his play at edge. Such a strange hill to plant a flag on. Incredible really. He, Gillett and Cordner were the best 3 edge players in the game, and pending the year, you could order them any which way... mind you i doubt Cordner or Gillett could have overcome the Josh McFuckingCrone handicap the way Papalii did.

Re Young, for me his late footwork, which was the cataylst to creating so many impactful plays in the middle, was not effective on the edge. He's working against better athletes out there and his own athleticism wasnt a point of strength, the way it was in the middle. Whch isnt to say he cant be this year, or sometime going forward. It just didnt show up on game day in his time there. But it did immediately show up with him as a middle.

If he gets the first crack at the #11 spot because CHN is suspended and he proves himself to be an impactful player, by all means keep him there, and CHN can fill the tweener back-row/impact middle role off the bench. But his level of play on the edge last year... that ain't going to cut it. Im not wasting a talent like his on the edge when i have seen first hand his game changing ability in the middle
Lifes just more enjoyable in the middle. I absolutely loved it when my coach moved me from centre to front row. Its just such a simple role and if your mindsets right, its the only part of a footy field to be
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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simo wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:48 pm Lifes just more enjoyable in the middle. I absolutely loved it when my coach moved me from centre to front row. Its just such a simple role and if your mindsets right, its the only part of a footy field to be
Simo, old friend, i spend most of my illustrious junior footy career neck deep in the middle... surrounded by people bigger than me. But as a hooker i held my own. More than held it. If not for injuries and a catastrophic lack of talent, i could have been the next big thing... There is NO place in the world better than the middle third of a RL footy game
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Botman wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:51 pm
simo wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:48 pm Lifes just more enjoyable in the middle. I absolutely loved it when my coach moved me from centre to front row. Its just such a simple role and if your mindsets right, its the only part of a footy field to be
Simo, old friend, i spend most of my illustrious junior footy career neck deep in the middle... surrounded by people bigger than me. But as a hooker i held my own. More than held it. If not for injuries and a catastrophic lack of talent, i could have been the next big thing... There is NO place in the world better than the middle third of a RL footy game
Its honestly so different and something i miss so much. Sadly my career got in the way and i had to choose being able to move properly on mondays over reserve grade glory
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Botman wrote: February 5, 2021, 6:15 pm He played middle for QLD because he was capable of doing so and they were lacking up front and had viable options on the edge.

Anyone arguing that Josh Papalii wasnt one of, if not the best edge forward in the world isnt worth arguing with. Honestly that is a mind numblingly dumb
You're basically saying that Papa was as good, or better in the second row as he has been in the middle. I disagree. He was a premier second rower but the world's best prop.

Anyone who can't see he's taken his game to the next level while playing front row is watching a different game to me.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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You guys remind me of the great Coodabeens song.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

Seiffert82 wrote:
Botman wrote: February 5, 2021, 6:15 pm He played middle for QLD because he was capable of doing so and they were lacking up front and had viable options on the edge.

Anyone arguing that Josh Papalii wasnt one of, if not the best edge forward in the world isnt worth arguing with. Honestly that is a mind numblingly dumb
You're basically saying that Papa was as good, or better in the second row as he has been in the middle. I disagree. He was a premier second rower but the world's best prop.

Anyone who can't see he's taken his game to the next level while playing front row is watching a different game to me.
I don’t believe that’s true at all. I think the last few years he’s been the most professional and in shape he’s been for an extended period of his career, but that’s not related to which position he’s played

He hasn’t suddenly became fitter and more focussed because he’s moved into the middle, that’s a coincidence more than anything. It’s more due to the fact he’s grown up, settled down, got married, and even the professionalism of the club itself has increased and he’s moved into more of a senior leadership role

I’d suggest if he had this same mindset and approach off the field while playing on the edge he’d have been even more dominant out there
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

I also think this whole “Hudson Young can’t play on the edge” is another GH narrative that’s grown its own legs and hasn’t really proven itself to be true yet

To me Young has just blossomed with more game time, not so much the change in position, he showed a bit of potential coming off the bench on the edge too before multiple suspensions for eye gouging took a big chunk out of his early development in first grade.

I think he’s got all the skills to be a very good edge player, just needs the time and combinations to do it. I hope he makes the position out there his own and relegates CHN to the bench where he belongs.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

The Nickman wrote: February 6, 2021, 5:51 am
Seiffert82 wrote:
Botman wrote: February 5, 2021, 6:15 pm He played middle for QLD because he was capable of doing so and they were lacking up front and had viable options on the edge.

Anyone arguing that Josh Papalii wasnt one of, if not the best edge forward in the world isnt worth arguing with. Honestly that is a mind numblingly dumb
You're basically saying that Papa was as good, or better in the second row as he has been in the middle. I disagree. He was a premier second rower but the world's best prop.

Anyone who can't see he's taken his game to the next level while playing front row is watching a different game to me.
I don’t believe that’s true at all. I think the last few years he’s been the most professional and in shape he’s been for an extended period of his career, but that’s not related to which position he’s played

He hasn’t suddenly became fitter and more focussed because he’s moved into the middle, that’s a coincidence more than anything. It’s more due to the fact he’s grown up, settled down, got married, and even the professionalism of the club itself has increased and he’s moved into more of a senior leadership role

I’d suggest if he had this same mindset and approach off the field while playing on the edge he’d have been even more dominant out there
Yep, and that's kinda my point when comparing Papalii, Tapine and Young.

There are a lot of factors that go into a player improving his game in a particular position. Experience, fitness, suitability of the role and also the way the team plays.

There is no doubt in my mind that our current coach likes playing through the middle, so our middles get a lot more opportunity with the ball than on the edges.

But as much as I love Papa, I have to disagree that he was consistently the best second rower in the world. At his peak he may have been, but the fact is he was dropped from the Qld origin team 5 or 6 times before he started playing front row full time at club level. He wasn't just playing from the bench to fill a role because of their lack of front row depth, he often wasn't being selected at all.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Anyone care to comment on why Tapine has gone from an good second rower to a top quality middle? Different factors to Young? They play a very similar game.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Botman wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:42 pm
simo wrote: February 5, 2021, 7:30 pm Papali playing middle for queensland off the bench was very similar to wighton lining up at centre for nsw. They are part if the 17 best players available and the only ones capable to fill that role.
This discussions getting a bit out of hand. Hudson young is an incredibly enthusiastic talent with high energy and just enough psycho. Sometimes too much. On an edge he seemed to focus on his role and knuckle down on what he was asked to do. In the middle he looked like he was just told to unleash hell. I hope hes given a bit more of that directive on the edge this time.
Exactly. Just jamming the best 17 together, and Papalii had the body to handle the rigors of a SOO middle forward game, and they needed him for that because he was backing up Scott and Myles at the back end of their careers and then having to clean up the mess Napa and whoever left him with to open things up.

It has ZERO to do with his play at edge. Such a strange hill to plant a flag on. Incredible really. He, Gillett and Cordner were the best 3 edge players in the game, and pending the year, you could order them any which way... mind you i doubt Cordner or Gillett could have overcome the Josh McFuckingCrone handicap the way Papalii did.

Re Young, for me his late footwork, which was the cataylst to creating so many impactful plays in the middle, was not effective on the edge. He's working against better athletes out there and his own athleticism wasnt a point of strength, the way it was in the middle. Whch isnt to say he cant be this year, or sometime going forward. It just didnt show up on game day in his time there. But it did immediately show up with him as a middle.

If he gets the first crack at the #11 spot because CHN is suspended and he proves himself to be an impactful player, by all means keep him there, and CHN can fill the tweener back-row/impact middle role off the bench. But his level of play on the edge last year... that ain't going to cut it. Im not wasting a talent like his on the edge when i have seen first hand his game changing ability in the middle
Agree with this, essentially word for word.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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It’s pretty straight forward and you’ve hit the nail on the head with the way he and Young play very similarly at times

Like Young, Tapine’s style is better suited to the middle because out wide he’s dealing with players of comparable athleticism. They have a better ability to deal with the combination of speed, power and footwork. These dudes in the middle? Very few people are right combination... the smaller forwards can’t handle their power, and the bigger ones can’t handle their footwork and speed.

Out wide you’re confined really to be targeting 2-3 people, the half, backrow and centre... if that unit can hang, then the edge will have limited scope to impact the game. The edge defenders get to to adjust as the play unfolds, they can compress to account for the big body and slide if the cover defence is in good shape

As a middle, you can hunt the hooker, any of the 6 middles that will come into the game, you have more variety in ways you can go at them because you’ve got two sides of a ruck and the middle third is more like a middle half and the edges really actually account for about 1/4 of the field each
So there is more space, and the middle defenders are doing a lot less reading and adjusting. It’s straight up and down and make the tackle for the most part

Guys like Hudson Young and Tapine who have the power to move bodies, but also combine that with footwork are going to find a huckleberry who they know they can beat with either speed, power or footwork (or a combination of all three), especially against a retreating, passive defensive line
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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The Nickman wrote: February 6, 2021, 5:54 am I also think this whole “Hudson Young can’t play on the edge” is another GH narrative that’s grown its own legs and hasn’t really proven itself to be true yet

To me Young has just blossomed with more game time, not so much the change in position, he showed a bit of potential coming off the bench on the edge too before multiple suspensions for eye gouging took a big chunk out of his early development in first grade.

I think he’s got all the skills to be a very good edge player, just needs the time and combinations to do it. I hope he makes the position out there his own and relegates CHN to the bench where he belongs.
I don’t think there is a ‘Young can’t play on an edge’ narrative at all. I think several people are just acknowledging that his first real impact on NRL games came as an up tempo, fit, quick #13.

And that was exciting and happened when the team needed it. I’d argue that that role morphed into becoming one of the most important in the game with the new rule changes. The impact of Yeo, Murray, Radley, McInness, B Smith and later Young was significant. In fact Murray’s injury in Origin game 1 was in my eyes the biggest telling factor in the series. The lumbering middle third now struggles without a point of difference and Jrbo just couldn’t replicate an up tempo game.

And CHN belonging on the bench is off the mark just football wise. He showed in his first three seasons that he’s a born modern era second rower imo. His 2020 should essentially be forgotten. He only even got rushed in because of Canberra’s freakish middle third injury toll. He was severely lacking in fitness yet still dug in and played a role the club needed him to.

If Young gets the edge and dominates I’ll be stoked. But CHN wasn’t signed to be yet another bench forward of which we have plenty. He was the direct Bateman replacement and the club took that jump/gamble when it arose.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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The Nickman wrote: February 6, 2021, 5:54 am I also think this whole “Hudson Young can’t play on the edge” is another GH narrative that’s grown its own legs and hasn’t really proven itself to be true yet

Important distinction to make is that I have not seen anyone say, and certainly I know I have never said he can’t play back Row

He can. He’s done it before, and didn’t let anyone down. What people like me are saying is he did a job in the back row and that’s great, but to us, it doesn’t make sense to sacrifice a genuine game breaking x-factor for a guy who does the job on the edge

He can play edge, he can physically play that spot all year long and at worst he’d be fine... at best maybe those physical traits start to show up and he becomes an impact player out there. No question that could happen.

But assuming he doesn’t regress from his 2020 campaign, he’s already an impact player as a middle and sacrificing an impactful, game breaking middle forward in hopes that he might become a impactful, game breaking edge doesn’t seem like it a good move imo
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Oooof ****
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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The position each player in the team is selected is based on what is best for the team. We have a **** load of middles and not enough edges.

Young is obviously behind Tapine for the lock position and potentially Sutton. Loved what I saw from Sutton last year. So Young is third ranked lock. Well you say, Sutton could play prop and of course he could. But we have two current Origin props, an up and comer in Guler and a seasoned veteran in Ryan. Ryan fully fit and back to his best is our second best prop. Oh yeah, we have that other bloke Horsburgh who killed it last year before injury as well. Add in Sia, who the coach loves. That is 8 middles that may be picked before Young.

Then we have on the edge... Whitehead who we all love, and CHN... this is really a no brainer. I mean even if the club/coach did a complete backflip and shifted Tapine back to the edge we are still thin there, depthwise.

Young will do what is best for the team - which is also best for his own career - ie. Be one of three players scrapping it out for two positions. That is better for him, and the team, than being one of nine players scrapping it out for 5 or 6 positions (depending on the makeup of the bench) for a game.

Edit to add.. it really doesn't matter until the end of the year if we adopt a rotation policy. Injuries always play a factor which makes it even more important that Young plays on the edge.

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Botman »

I don’t think an actual full rotation policy is or should be considered

We may pick spots after rep footy to rest someone like Papalii, or Tapine
The 4th forward on the bench might get rotated to some extent
But for the most part the best 17 are going to be picked and played, as it should be

Injuries, rep footy, suspension and form will naturally rotate our forwards for the most part
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by gergreg »

An example I have provided previously (for last season in particular) is Whitehead. He looked spent at the backend of last season. I guess there are different methods of a rotation policy. I am not suggesting players flitter in and out of the side on a weekly basis. Ricky will of course have a reasonable idea of his best 17, so it's important that we get to the business end of the season with as many of those 17 fit and raring to go. There is no such thing as an injury free season, for any side in the history of rugby league. So it's a good headache to have the forward depth we do and competition for spots.

I would even include Hodgson in this. We can now afford for him to not play 80 minutes week after week. Him and Whitehead are stubborn bastards and like any player they want to play every minute of every week. The coach has to pull rank on them and manage their minutes.

I just don't understand the commentary on Young as a middle at the moment. We don't need him there. Some posters may rate him as the best or second best lock we currently have but we need him on the edge because we don't have the depth there.

Edit.. Hodgson and Whitehead won't be affected by rep footy, nor will Tapine. They should be rested throughout the year though.

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Botman »

We dont need him on the edge unless CHN or Whitehead are unavailable for some reason
Which makes sense as to why he's still cross training there, he'll be the plug and play solution if one of them is injuried, suspended or off for a HIA. But as long as those two are avaiable, they should our 80 minute edges.

This is why Hudson Young is absolutely nailed on to my bench. He should be the first forward selected there because he's should be the middle who can plug the second row in game if required.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by twistedbydesign »

Yeah I would agree with that. Hudson's an absolute must-pick given his flexibility to play in the middle or on the edge, and ideal to have on the bench when we have a full complement of guys available.

I feel he might be a better edge backrower than last year indicated, he does seem to have the skill set to play there. I think it's important to remember that entire right edge looked disjointed last season - particularly in the second half of the season when we had so many injuries. I have a sneaky suspicion that if he were given a full pre-season there and the opportunity to build up combinations with the guys around him he'd make a real go of it.

All that notwithstanding, I'd be starting the year with 12. CHN and 14. HY (at least as soon as suspensions allow). It's time for CHN to deliver on his reputation, if he does he could be a real difference maker. The natural flow of injuries will see Hudson spend at least some time out wide throughout the year, as such I don't think it will be bad for him to get a start or two out there early in the year - him developing his game on the edge improves the versatility of our squad significantly.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

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Ricky Stuart says Corey Harawira-Naera and Corey Horsburgh have lost their place in Canberra Raiders team



Ricky Stuart has declared Canberra forwards Corey Harawira-Naera and Corey Horsburgh have lost their spot in his team after the duo were caught drink driving.

“It’s not my job to keep a position in this team – it’s their job. And they haven’t given themselves a real good head start. One thing in the NRL is, there is always someone to take your spot. I’ll leave them to take care of their court case because I’ve got other players that need to be ready for round one.”

Read more: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 53c62f11e2

Stuart set to drop Raiders duo for round one: https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/02/11/stu ... round-one/

You’re dropped: Ricky axes Raiders duo Corey Horsburgh and Corey Harawira-Naera over DUI charges: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... e1160a8808
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by greeneyed »

Story suggesting an NRL Round 1 ban for Corey Horsburgh and a three game ban for Corey Harawira-Naera.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by bonehead »

greeneyed wrote:Story suggesting an NRL Round 1 ban for Corey Horsburgh and a three game ban for Corey Harawira-Naera.
fair

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Johno »

“It’s not my job to keep a position in this team – it’s their job. And they haven’t given themselves a real good head start. One thing in the NRL is, there is always someone to take your spot. I’ll leave them to take care of their court case because I’ve got other players that need to be ready for round one.”


Classic and powerful statement from the gaffer.

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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

And I'm sure he'd take exactly the same stance if it were Josh Papalii and Jack Wighton who blew over.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by BadnMean »

The Nickman wrote: February 11, 2021, 3:16 pm And I'm sure he'd take exactly the same stance if it were Josh Papalii and Jack Wighton who blew over.
He's not been shy at all about punting Papa out of his preferred position and down into reggies when he's turned up fat after off season silliness. Can't remember if we needed to with Jack, the NRL gave him a good punt themselves.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yeah Wighton copped it from the club and even worse from the NRL. Turned his life and career around really.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

I genuinely don't remember Jack losing his spot in the team and having to fight his way back in OR Stuart publicly saying he had.

A club-enforced suspension that the NRL was leaning heavily all over them to enforce doesn't really count, these other two blokes are getting the same thing.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

The Nickman wrote: February 11, 2021, 4:05 pm I genuinely don't remember Jack losing his spot in the team and having to fight his way back in OR Stuart publicly saying he had.

A club-enforced suspension that the NRL was leaning heavily all over them to enforce doesn't really count, these other two blokes are getting the same thing.
The Raiders gave him 6 weeks and the NRL decided to come in over the top of that and make it 10 weeks with a $30k fine.
Last edited by Seiffert82 on February 11, 2021, 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

So... completely different to the situation with these guys this time around?

Do you remember Jack having to fight his way back into the team?
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

The Nickman wrote: February 11, 2021, 4:36 pm So... completely different to the situation with these guys this time around?

Do you remember Jack having to fight his way back into the team?
I'm sure Stuart had words with Wighton behind closed doors.

Stuarts public comments about the other two are neither here nor there IMO. Time will tell what actually happens.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by Seiffert82 »

Just about every player except Papalii, Wighton, Croker, Whitehead, Taps and Williams will have been put under the pump to fight for their spot in the side IMO.

These two blokes never had a guaranteed spot in the lineup. Stuart is just reminding them of that.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by The Nickman »

So what you're saying is THIS statement is correct? Cheers.
The Nickman wrote: February 11, 2021, 3:16 pm And I'm sure he'd take exactly the same stance if it were Josh Papalii and Jack Wighton who blew over.
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Re: Harawira-Naera and Horsburgh charged with drink driving

Post by dubby »

Yet Brent Naden....

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