POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

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Who should be the bench forwards for 2021?

Emre Guler
19
20%
Siliva Havili
3
3%
Corey Horsburgh
21
22%
Ryan James
11
12%
Harry Rushton
2
2%
Sia Soliola
3
3%
Ryan Sutton
8
9%
Hudson Young
27
29%
 
Total votes: 94

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greeneyed
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POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by greeneyed »

POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

What's your strongest possible 2021 Canberra Raiders line up? That's what we are asking the readers of The Greenhouse. We have looked at the "Locks and contenders" for each position in the team in a special series of articles. Some players are clear "locks" on their positions, but for contentious positions, we've run a series of polls.

And we now have the strongest 2021 Canberra Raiders starting team, according to the majority of the readers of the site. Next? The bench!

In the fifth of our polls, we're asking: Which three forwards should take their place on the bench? I have included all forwards in the top 30 list. If you wish to voted for development players, list them in the thread. We will have one more poll, bench utility.

Remember, we're looking at the strongest possible team, irrespective of injuries.

You have THREE votes in this poll and you may change your vote.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by greeneyed »

This is insanely difficult, particularly as I don't have CHN in my top 17, based on his 2020... and unless Dunamis Lui puts in form like the second half of 2020, I'm not entirely sure he's a certainty for the top 17, long term, either. But I agree Dunamis certainly merits being there on the basis of form.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by afgtnk »

Havili, Sutton, and Young. Horsburgh and James to start from the outside and try to work their way in. Sia to play fill an experienced fringe player, mentorship role ala Sammy Dubs.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by Botman »

I went with Young, Guler and Hors... If Hors isnt ready, Sutton would be my next pick.
Those are the 3 and 4 best and most talented forwards on in the list.

I would consider Havili as the #14 utility
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by greeneyed »

One of the issues is ensuring a mix of youth and experience. I just posted an NRL.com article in another thread noting that our forward pack is the most experienced in the competition... and that has been important in premiership campaigns in the past. But the fans, by and large, seem to have an eye to the future and want to see the young forwards come up now. I'm no less "guilty". I went for Young, Sutton and Horsburgh... and I really wanted to pick Guler too. Yet we've got big bodies, developed over many years, experienced players, who I suspect aren't going to make the top three in this poll. Difficult balance to reach for the coach.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by BadnMean »

Young, Guler, Sutton.

If he fires to previous standards though, James is forcing Guler or Sutton to go to a level they haven't quite shown or sustained to keep him out. Which is great.

Young has basically made hismelf undroppable by his form late last year. He was playing to a standard that could put him up with the better locks in the competition if he was to maintain it and I daresay a fast and furious play style next season would suit him as well.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by simo »

I think ryan james is going to be an absolute weapon off hodgo. Hes a very clever front rower and hes going to be dangerous near the posts
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by bonehead »

simo wrote:I think ryan james is going to be an absolute weapon off hodgo. Hes a very clever front rower and hes going to be dangerous near the posts
expecting big things

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by Botman »

simo wrote: January 19, 2021, 5:03 pm I think ryan james is going to be an absolute weapon off hodgo. Hes a very clever front rower and hes going to be dangerous near the posts
Objectively this is a very good point and stylistically these two should work extremely well together on the goal line if James has gas left in the tank.

I've said it before, im not a huge Ryan James fan. Never have been. And whilst im super impressed with his attitude coming here and im VERY open to getting on board and changing my tune on him, ill have to see it before i buy in. But i have to accept my view of him is absolutely colouring my decisions on polls like this.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by simo »

Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:16 pm
simo wrote: January 19, 2021, 5:03 pm I think ryan james is going to be an absolute weapon off hodgo. Hes a very clever front rower and hes going to be dangerous near the posts
Objectively this is a very good point and stylistically these two should work extremely well together on the goal line if James has gas left in the tank.

I've said it before, im not a huge Ryan James fan. Never have been. And whilst im super impressed with his attitude coming here and im VERY open to getting on board and changing my tune on him, ill have to see it before i buy in. But i have to accept my view of him is absolutely colouring my decisions on polls like this.
Still hurting from when he played FPN in front of everyone to draw a penalty and steal the win?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by Botman »

simo wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:41 pm
Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:16 pm
simo wrote: January 19, 2021, 5:03 pm I think ryan james is going to be an absolute weapon off hodgo. Hes a very clever front rower and hes going to be dangerous near the posts
Objectively this is a very good point and stylistically these two should work extremely well together on the goal line if James has gas left in the tank.

I've said it before, im not a huge Ryan James fan. Never have been. And whilst im super impressed with his attitude coming here and im VERY open to getting on board and changing my tune on him, ill have to see it before i buy in. But i have to accept my view of him is absolutely colouring my decisions on polls like this.
Still hurting from when he played FPN in front of everyone to draw a penalty and steal the win?
Haha it does but that's almost all about how much FPN aggrivated me in any number of different ways including but not limited to that incident.

Re James i didnt like him a long time before that. He's the sort of player i find most infuriating. All the physical tools and shows the ability to be completely dominant but almost never having that impact when the game is tight, close and you need it from him. Sort of guy who has 2 barge over tries in a 40 point win and then the next week is getting his **** pushed in by Ben Hannat or something in a tight 4 point loss.

JWH used to be the same until Robinson got his hands on him and turned those physical traits into a consistent beast. So that's what gives me hope, that James has spent a career under coaches that just cant get that out of him. I think Stuart can and if he's got anything left in his knees (another thing that gives me cause to pause) then i think he is in a good place from a motivational and coaching perspective to be a real weapon for us.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by simo »

Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:58 pm
simo wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:41 pm
Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:16 pm
simo wrote: January 19, 2021, 5:03 pm I think ryan james is going to be an absolute weapon off hodgo. Hes a very clever front rower and hes going to be dangerous near the posts
Objectively this is a very good point and stylistically these two should work extremely well together on the goal line if James has gas left in the tank.

I've said it before, im not a huge Ryan James fan. Never have been. And whilst im super impressed with his attitude coming here and im VERY open to getting on board and changing my tune on him, ill have to see it before i buy in. But i have to accept my view of him is absolutely colouring my decisions on polls like this.
Still hurting from when he played FPN in front of everyone to draw a penalty and steal the win?
Haha it does but that's almost all about how much FPN aggrivated me in any number of different ways including but not limited to that incident.

Re James i didnt like him a long time before that. He's the sort of player i find most infuriating. All the physical tools and shows the ability to be completely dominant but almost never having that impact when the game is tight, close and you need it from him. Sort of guy who has 2 barge over tries in a 40 point win and then the next week is getting his **** pushed in by Ben Hannat or something in a tight 4 point loss.

JWH used to be the same until Robinson got his hands on him and turned those physical traits into a consistent beast. So that's what gives me hope, that James has spent a career under coaches that just cant get that out of him. I think Stuart can and if he's got anything left in his knees (another thing that gives me cause to pause) then i think he is in a good place from a motivational and coaching perspective to be a real weapon for us.
Id put money on that a lot of that from james was the burden of carrying a **** team on his back week after week. Playing big minutes with no competitive incentive year after year.
I think he always put in but unless your team is up for it, it doesnt matter
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by Botman »

Yeah that's absolutely fair... that was a **** organisation for basically his entire career... i can see motivation to "get up" week to week being a challenge, it's another reason why im very open for him to change my mind.

I actually really want him too because i've been so impressed with the way he's presented himself and the committment he's made the club regarding the risks involved with investing in him. Speaks to a guy highly motivated to prove something.
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POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by BJ »

Between Papa and Ryan James we will have inside 10m power based tryscoring threats both sides of the ruck.

Tapine and Hudson Young both bring step based try scoring threats close to the line.

With Wighton we’re surely the most dangerous team near the try line. Unfortunately we’re less dangerous than other top 8 teams 15 to 30m out.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by -PJ- »

We have some very good forwards playing reggies this year.

All of these guys would stroll into most other clubs packs.

I’m glad I’m not making the decisions but as fans were excited.

I just want to see a fit Horse(vet checked) ready to go..
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by julian87 »

-PJ- wrote: January 20, 2021, 6:27 am We have some very good forwards playing reggies this year
* we have some very good forwards playing in the local Canberra competition this year.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by julian87 »

greeneyed wrote: January 19, 2021, 1:05 pm This is insanely difficult, particularly as I don't have CHN in my top 17, based on his 2020... and unless Dunamis Lui puts in form like the second half of 2020, I'm not entirely sure he's a certainty for the top 17, long term, either. But I agree Dunamis certainly merits being there on the basis of form.
Absolutely no offense intended here but 2020 has to be an absolute wipe/forgive for CHN. There’s a multitude of reasons for this that I don’t think really needs going over again.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by -PJ- »

julian87 wrote: January 20, 2021, 8:37 am
-PJ- wrote: January 20, 2021, 6:27 am We have some very good forwards playing reggies this year
* we have some very good forwards playing in the local Canberra competition this year.
I think you get the jist Jules..
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

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I did, I’m just banging on because I think it’s a ridiculous scenario for the club to be in whilst arguably still in a premiership window.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by Seiffert82 »

Young and Guler will almost certainly be somewhere in the 17. The other spot could honestly go to 3 or 4 players depending on form and fitness.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by -PJ- »

julian87 wrote: January 20, 2021, 1:47 pm I did, I’m just banging on because I think it’s a ridiculous scenario for the club to be in whilst arguably still in a premiership window.
Yeah it’s not ideal..
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by greeneyed »

I'm a very strong advocate of the Raiders having their own NSW Cup team.

That said, I can understand one aspect of the club's position... that is, that we can't be sure what's going to happen with COVID in 2021. There are presently plans for NSW Cup, Jersey Flegg and Canberra Raiders Cup to all proceed. But as we just saw, it doesn't take much to throw a spanner in the works. The NRL released a statement during the NSW clusters that they were ready to put the NRL clubs back into a bubble (given that's what'd be required to have teams move between NSW and other jurisdictions at the time). The bubble might be not so strict as last year... but if the UK strain were to take off, the bubbles could conceivably be every bit as strict as last year. And in that case, any fringe players in a bubble won't be playing any lower tier footy.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by julian87 »

greeneyed wrote: January 21, 2021, 8:37 am I'm a very strong advocate of the Raiders having their own NSW Cup team.

That said, I can understand one aspect of the club's position... that is, that we can't be sure what's going to happen with COVID in 2021. There are presently plans for NSW Cup, Jersey Flegg and Canberra Raiders Cup to all proceed. But as we just saw, it doesn't take much to throw a spanner in the works. The NRL released a statement during the NSW clusters that they were ready to put the NRL clubs back into a bubble (given that's what'd be required to have teams move between NSW and other jurisdictions at the time). The bubble might be not so strict as last year... but if the UK strain were to take off, the bubbles could conceivably be every bit as strict as last year. And in that case, any fringe players in a bubble won't be playing any lower tier footy.
I understand that. But I don’t like a gamble based on what ifs.

I am very worried about this decision leaving the club behind the 8 ball this season. If we end up full strength for a period we could see Havili, James, Soliola, Rushton, Sutton, Valemei, Smith Shields, Timoko, Aekins, Hopoate, Williams, Frawley and others all playing in a competition that is below 3rd tier (with metro and Newcastle probably that 3rd NSW tier) trying to get into first grade. It’s precarious imo.

It won’t be good for junior development, match fitness or general consistent preparedness for first grade players imo.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 2:49 pm I went with Young, Guler and Hors... If Hors isnt ready, Sutton would be my next pick.
Those are the 3 and 4 best and most talented forwards on in the list.

I would consider Havili as the #14 utility
I'll have what Botmans having
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by Northern Raider »

I made my picks but reserve the right to change my mind after 2 rounds.

What I really like is you could pick any 3 from the list and it's still a decent bench.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by greeneyed »

This poll will be declared on Monday, so if you haven't voted yet...
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by BJ »

Young, Guler, James, Starling.

I don’t think Hors will have returned to his physical peak by round 1.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by BJ »

BJ wrote:Young, Guler, James, Starling.

I don’t think Hors will have returned to his physical peak by round 1.
Does anyone remember if Ryan James has an offload in his game?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by greeneyed »

BJ wrote: January 23, 2021, 8:37 am
BJ wrote:Young, Guler, James, Starling.

I don’t think Hors will have returned to his physical peak by round 1.
Does anyone remember if Ryan James has an offload in his game?
Peak of 19 offloads in a season in 2017: https://www.nrl.com/players/nrl-premier ... yan-james/
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by MrPosh »

I think James will be the second best front rower in the team, but I think he'll be on the pitch when Papa is off it.

It was noticeable last year that the team was lacking a leader in the pack when Papa was spelled. For me, that is James.

I think Young spells Tapine and then it's two from four for the other front row / bench. Guler and Sutton would be my choice, with Lui unlucky.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by gergreg »

I honestly don't think it matters. I hope that having such great depth means we rotate players and Ricky uses form throughout the season to pick his best 17 when it matters. Round 1 doesn't matter.

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by bonehead »

MrPosh wrote:I think James will be the second best front rower in the team, but I think he'll be on the pitch when Papa is off it.

It was noticeable last year that the team was lacking a leader in the pack when Papa was spelled. For me, that is James.

I think Young spells Tapine and then it's two from four for the other front row / bench. Guler and Sutton would be my choice, with Lui unlucky.
I changed my tune on Ryan James around 2016/17 and I'm expecting big things from him.
You are absolutely on the money about the 2020 leadership void but that's the loss of Sia and Hodgson together, Dunamis, Tapine and Sutton went to a new level so hoping they can carry that forward and James adds to/replaces Sia's leadership.

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Bench forwards

Post by greeneyed »

Poll declared: Hudson Young, Corey Horsburgh and Emre Guler are the three forwards to join the bench. We'll now have a final poll for bench utility/forward.
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