POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

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Who should be the starting wingers in 2021?

Jordan Rapana
31
44%
Bailey Simonsson
23
33%
Harley Smith-Shields
3
4%
Matt Timoko
2
3%
Semi Valemei
11
16%
 
Total votes: 70

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greeneyed
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POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by greeneyed »

POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

What's your strongest possible 2021 Canberra Raiders line up? That's what we are asking the readers of The Greenhouse. We're looking at the "Locks and contenders" for each position in the team in a special series of articles. Some players have clearly locked down their spot but we're looking at all the contenders for places in the Green Machine's top 17. For contentious positions, we're supplementing the discussion with a series of polls... and in this poll, we're asking: Who should be the starting wingers in 2021?

Remember, we're looking at the strongest possible team, irrespective of injuries.

Click here to read more: Locks and contenders: Wingers

You have TWO votes in this poll and you may change your vote.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by -PJ- »

Jordan Rapana + Semi Valemei
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Matt »

I think Simmo might start the yr, but Valemei's upside is apparent.

I think Rapa will hold the other wing.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by afgtnk »

A lot of people seem to have forgotten how solid Simo was/is. He was in the unfortunate position of being compared directly to a prime Rapana last season.

Sure, he hasn't shown he's anywhere near that level, but he has shown he's a level or two above first year Valemei.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Botman »

Simmo struggled as a finisher and he was very average in his work coming off our line
He's got a lot of good qualities and i think he'll be OK, but in limited game time, and appreciating it was difficult circumstances, last year was not a strong showing

As much as i love Jordy Raps as a person and as a player for what he's been. I am hoping Simmo and Semi take the next step and put him outside our 17. At this stage, i think if Raps is in our top 17, it's a problem

(Unless he finds a time turner and winds it back, in which case, toot on Jordy. Toot on.)
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by afgtnk »

He averaged 118 metres a game in 2019. That's more than Cotric and two metres short of Rapana. Nearly 20 metres more than Valemei last season.

Granted that doesn't tell the full story of where he made those metres, but should be fair to assume that a fair chunk would've had to come from deep inside our territory. He's just not as physical as the other three mentioned, and I don't think that's ever going to be his game.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Botman »

We need someone physical coming out of our own end... I know the eye test tells me Simmo hurts us as a player coming off the line. Which is a problem since Cotric is leaving.

I think he actually needs to take a leaf out of Raps book, get into dummy half and use his speed and explosive power to get into it on early tackles... he gives us as much punch as Croker does as a one off the ruck runner on early tackles. Except at least Croker sometimes gets a pen.

He's got it in him and we need that physical presence, If he cant provide it, Semi certainly can.
Again, ideally Simo and Semi are our starting wingers. I truly think both at their best would solve a few problems. But i dont think i could honestly say i feel confident in either going in to 2021. I feel very hopeful about both though.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by -TW- »

He does look a lot bigger in the photos so far in preseason

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Seiffert82 »

Hopefully this is a breakout season for Simonsson if he gets the gig. I'm not entirely sure what he offers to be honest.

I suspect he's quite quick in the open field, but I'm not entirely sure as I've never seen him make a break. He certainly struggles making metres off the line. Having him an Toots make two early hitups is never a good start to the set. He's pretty solid in defence though and reads the game quite well.

Valemei has made his fair share of errors, but he definitely makes things happen.

It will be an interesting choice for Stuart. Maybe Hopoate will get a run.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Matt »

Botman wrote: January 7, 2021, 8:47 pm We need someone physical coming out of our own end... I know the eye test tells me Simmo hurts us as a player coming off the line. Which is a problem since Cotric is leaving.

I think he actually needs to take a leaf out of Raps book, get into dummy half and use his speed and explosive power to get into it on early tackles... he gives us as much punch as Croker does as a one off the ruck runner on early tackles. Except at least Croker sometimes gets a pen.

He's got it in him and we need that physical presence, If he cant provide it, Semi certainly can.
Again, ideally Simo and Semi are our starting wingers. I truly think both at their best would solve a few problems. But i dont think i could honestly say i feel confident in either going in to 2021. I feel very hopeful about both though.
I was tempted to drop the 30yr old wingers too. But until I see it, not sure i can do it.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by EJ »

Coming off our line wasn't a problem for Simo. He was solid in every aspect of play imo. Def feel he's been underrated here and keen to see him back at full fitness

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Seiffert82 »

Well, the coach dropped him a couple of times last year and chopped and changed his role a bit before he got injured, so I'm not convinced Stuart is completely sold on him either.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by afgtnk »

In the four full games that Simo played as a winger last season he averaged 150 metres in each one. I think he'll be fine in that regard.

He's got stuff to work on, and I would've like to have seen a high quality winger come onboard, but at the moment he's the best we've got IMO.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Makaveli »

Anyone but Valemei
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by greeneyed »

I think people are writing off Harley Smith-Shields and Matt Timoko for the wing roles far too readily. I can't see Hopoate easily jumping over them for first grade. For a start, he's not even in the top 30 (according to the lists so far announced by the Raiders).
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by -PJ- »

greeneyed wrote: January 8, 2021, 12:13 pm I think people are writing off Harley Smith-Shields and Matt Timoko for the wing roles far too readily. I can't see Hopoate easily jumping over them for first grade. For a start, he's not even in the top 30 (according to the lists so far announced by the Raiders).
It’s probably because most of us recognise them as centres. Sure they could play wing and do a very good job and hey I’m all for it.

There’s competition for spots and that’s great. We are in a good spot.

Simo, Valemei, Rapana, Croker, Scott, HSS, Timoko, Hoppa and Kris..all fighting for 4 jerseys.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by BJ »

afgtnk wrote:In the four full games that Simo played as a winger last season he averaged 150 metres in each one. I think he'll be fine in that regard.

He's got stuff to work on, and I would've like to have seen a high quality winger come onboard, but at the moment he's the best we've got IMO.
Opposition were kicking to Simo not Cotric so that helps boost his metres.

Simo looks bigger and stronger so I hope this is his breakthrough season, but I agree with an earlier post that I really can’t remember Simo creating a break out of nothing.

Cotric and Leluia could do this about once a game.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by BadnMean »

BJ wrote: January 8, 2021, 12:48 pm
afgtnk wrote:In the four full games that Simo played as a winger last season he averaged 150 metres in each one. I think he'll be fine in that regard.

He's got stuff to work on, and I would've like to have seen a high quality winger come onboard, but at the moment he's the best we've got IMO.
Opposition were kicking to Simo not Cotric so that helps boost his metres.

Simo looks bigger and stronger so I hope this is his breakthrough season, but I agree with an earlier post that I really can’t remember Simo creating a break out of nothing.

Cotric and Leluia could do this about once a game.
Probably a fair summation of SImo. Decent finisher given half a chance, pretty good defender too. But not much of a threat by himself. I kept waiting for that to emerge but yeah I remember him crashing through the line once vs Melbourne and kind of staggered 20m (still wobbly a few moments after a head knock he copped while scoring a try which he then tried to pass off as a sore leg to avoid HIA) but that's about it.

He's a more solid player than Semi. Semi may have more upside, haven't really seen enough to be sure.

Pretty sure RIcky sees HSS and Timoko as centres - since he's been buying in wingers like Elijah Wood too (there was another I forgot maybe too, that union bloke with the boring highlights).
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Wiki Special »

I think Rapana definitely deserves first crack, but I can't help but think how potent he'd be for next season as a bench utility playing 30 minutes through the middle.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by julian87 »

Simonsson is so, so far ahead of Valemei. I’m surprised this is even a discussion.

Rapana + Simonsson walk it in.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by julian87 »

Are people saying Valemei has ‘more upside’ because he’s Fijian?
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by BadnMean »

julian87 wrote: January 9, 2021, 10:16 am Are people saying Valemei has ‘more upside’ because he’s Fijian?
In my case it's more because he breaks more tackles and makes more breaks. He's been able to do a bit in attack whereas Simo has struggled to make a big impact finding clear space. That's what I see as the upside for him.

I voted Rapa + Simonssen by the way, so I do think Bailey is a good option and less likely to cost us a game early on. That's the downside of Valemi, he's still a bit shaky with hands and defence. If Simonson can't get in the clear more often though, guys will always be waiting in the wings.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by dubby »

I'm expecting Raps and Simonsson.

Frankly I don't know. Cotric is a huge loss.

Jordy has waned the past few years, his body has been smashed to bits due to the way he plays. I love his effort and competitive nature, but he's lost so much pace it's confronting.

Valemai improved as the year went on. He was brought in prematurely due to our injury toll. TO his credit he improved, and looked better and better.

Simmonson looks massive in the training photos, and I'm glad. I would like to think he can get to the level we want, otherwise he could end up being another Brenko Lee. (Spare me the premiership and origin, he looked lost in both cases.)

Timoko?
HSS?
Hopoate?
Scott?
Kris?

All outside chances, but I assume we tend to think of them as centres....not sure about Hopoate.

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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by BigPapa »

julian87 wrote: January 9, 2021, 10:16 am Are people saying Valemei has ‘more upside’ because he’s Fijian?
Yes Julian there can be no other reasons :shock:
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by julian87 »

BigPapa wrote: January 10, 2021, 5:53 am
julian87 wrote: January 9, 2021, 10:16 am Are people saying Valemei has ‘more upside’ because he’s Fijian?
Yes Julian there can be no other reasons :shock:
Well before I posted the biggest positive thing said about him was that he ‘makes things happen’ besides his errors. So besides that and breaking more tackles (but actually making less meters as has been shown earlier in the thread) I’m a bit puzzled by the upside thing, I think it’s a valid thought.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by simo »

Full preseason rapana and bulked up bailey walk this in.
Semi has the natural frame to develop well and improved markedly in his games at the back end of last year so good to have that prospect coming through when needed.
Is hopa an option?
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Seiffert82 »

Stuart has stocked up on young options in this squad.

I like Simonson, he's a solid player and makes few errors, but if he's a walk-up start it says something about the quality of options.

Hopefully he has bulked up a bit. Looking forward to seeing how he goes.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by greeneyed »

simo wrote: January 10, 2021, 7:47 am Full preseason rapana and bulked up bailey walk this in.
Semi has the natural frame to develop well and improved markedly in his games at the back end of last year so good to have that prospect coming through when needed.
Is hopa an option?
Not been included in the poll as the Raiders have not announced him in their top 30 (though he is listed there on NRL.com).
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by BadnMean »

julian87 wrote: January 10, 2021, 7:33 am
Well before I posted the biggest positive thing said about him was that he ‘makes things happen’ besides his errors. So besides that and breaking more tackles (but actually making less meters as has been shown earlier in the thread) I’m a bit puzzled by the upside thing, I think it’s a valid thought.
The extra consideration given to

Line breaks 50% more frequently. Tackle breaks tackles at almost -but not quite- double the rate of Bailey. Try scoring about a 0.4 per game rate for Semi vs about 0.3ish for Bailey so about 30% higher. That's quite a bit more attacking output in stark numbers. Nothing to do with him being Fijian, got to do with him being a fairly noticeably more threatening player in attack.

(yes, yards is a huge part of wing play these days and Semi has work to do there, whereas Bailey is solid, like he is at most things).

I'd say it's also partly a reaction to Cotric leaving, Toots looking ineffectual for much of last year and Rapa no longer being a gamebreaker. People are re-assessing where we might get some of that strike from our 3/4 line since Toots and Rapana are already playing the role of "steady veteran" then where is the x factor coming from? Not Cotric anymore. Not the FB who is top defensively and just ok attacking wise as far as FB's go. So all of a sudden a more dynamic wing option- even one with clear areas that need to improve- gets some consideration vs another "steady" player.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Seiffert82 »

Interesting statistical comparison. The eye test tells me that Valemei is much more threatening with the ball than Simonsson. Like Rapana, he made a ton of errors early, but his improvement in a short period of time was a real credit to him. I like him a lot.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Dusty »

Is Bailey fast?
I ask because I don’t think I’ve seen him in open space. I know that’s not entirely on him as players inside need to creat space, but I don’t think I’ve seen him burn someone on the outside


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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by BadnMean »

Dusty wrote: January 11, 2021, 9:24 am Is Bailey fast?
I ask because I don’t think I’ve seen him in open space. I know that’s not entirely on him as players inside need to creat space, but I don’t think I’ve seen him burn someone on the outside


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I'm basing my opinion that he is pretty quick based solely on a single GPS top speed list I saw on TV. It is extremely flimsy as I don't remember is it was speeds of the week, speeds of the comp so far, or maybe if only 10% of players had even been tracked with most unchecked etc. But he was 3rd or 4th on the list or something, with noted speedsters like JAC or PapenH in front of him. So on the face of that and our relative lack of speed in the back 5, I'd say he is quick for our team at least and somewhere in the top half of wingers rather than the bottom half.

But you're quite right, theoretical speed is one thing and I don't think I've seen him beat someone with it either.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by Matt »

Dusty wrote: January 11, 2021, 9:24 am Is Bailey fast?
I ask because I don’t think I’ve seen him in open space. I know that’s not entirely on him as players inside need to creat space, but I don’t think I’ve seen him burn someone on the outside


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He played FB against the Warriors (i think) in his debut season, and made along break. Only RTS (was the FB if im wrong) ran him down, and he was obviously behind the defensive line.



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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by BJ »

That list that had Simo fourth or so only had him at something like 33-34kmh from memory, so I think it was pretty limited.

A newspaper list had C Scott as our fastest player and I’m not sure that is true either.
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Re: POLL: Strongest 2020 line up: Wingers

Post by greeneyed »

All the polls for starting team positions will close at 11:59pm AEDT tonight (Monday). Last chance to vote!
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