Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

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reptar
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by reptar »

How many years until we become American Football? Which I like, but I would sure miss rugby league
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by Sid »

greeneyed wrote:
Sid wrote: December 23, 2020, 8:46 pm
greeneyed wrote:
mick63 wrote: December 23, 2020, 5:05 pm How much time ticks by between a try being scored and the kick off?

If they are looking to speed up the game and make more happen,don’t waste the time they already have.

Stop the clock on a try.
Resume the time at the kickoff.
That won’t speed up the game. Would likely make it slower, as more time would be taken between the try and re-start. But it would probably mean more game time. Games could end up lasting over two hours though. They already cut that fine at times.
Yeah, it could make tv scheduling more difficult if game times vary by a larger margin
Would make it just about impossible. Not practical to do it really. The margin is more than fine at times, some already go longer than two hours.
Another reason golden point should be scrapped for a draw

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BJ
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Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by BJ »

Commentators and NRL administration are confused about what they really want. speed of play the ball leads to dummy half running and flat passes at the ruck.

What fans really want (and why late 80s and 90s football was so great to watch) is speed of ball movement.

NRL is exciting when passing and running is fast, NOT when it’s just fast but safe hit ups.
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by greeneyed »

BJ wrote: December 26, 2020, 9:20 am Commentators and NRL administration are confused about what they really want. speed of play the ball leads to dummy half running and flat passes at the ruck.

What fans really want (and why late 80s and 90s football was so great to watch) is speed of ball movement.

NRL is exciting when passing and running is fast, NOT when it’s just fast but safe hit ups.
Thank you BJ! May the powers that be read that. Happy Boxing Day!
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by BadnMean »

BJ wrote: December 26, 2020, 9:20 am Commentators and NRL administration are confused about what they really want. speed of play the ball leads to dummy half running and flat passes at the ruck.

What fans really want (and why late 80s and 90s football was so great to watch) is speed of ball movement.

NRL is exciting when passing and running is fast, NOT when it’s just fast but safe hit ups.
There was also a huge amount more offloading. No interchange and limited subs meant it was common to just have one or two defenders in a tackle, which then more often allow a stand and offload or an offload on the way down. So far more second phase against a potentially staggered defence. It's one of the most striking things when I go back and watch old Raiders games now.
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by BJ »

greeneyed wrote:
BJ wrote: December 26, 2020, 9:20 am Commentators and NRL administration are confused about what they really want. speed of play the ball leads to dummy half running and flat passes at the ruck.

What fans really want (and why late 80s and 90s football was so great to watch) is speed of ball movement.

NRL is exciting when passing and running is fast, NOT when it’s just fast but safe hit ups.
Thank you BJ! May the powers that be read that. Happy Boxing Day!
Thanks GE. Same to you.

It shocks me that the NRL powers don’t seem to do proper analysis on the gameplay they want to encourage and potential rule changes.

You would think that cause and effect analysis followed by scenario planning would be the basis of NRL decision making.

NRL players, commentators and executive really pride themselves on gut instinct. This is a good approach when playing the game at breakneck speed, but not good enough for administration of a professionally run sport.

NRL coaches and knowledgeable players like Cam Smith and Cooper Cronk don’t rely on gut instinct, they properly analyse the game and look for strengths to develop and weaknesses to exploit.
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by Lui_Bon »

BadnMean wrote: December 15, 2020, 10:21 am
greeneyed wrote: December 15, 2020, 9:37 am At least the two point field goal rewards a skill. The play the ball after a touch finder actually penalises a skill. The game of rugby league is as much about defence as it is attack, about game management. The NRL seems to be hell bent on turning the game into basketball.
The defending team (well, now the attacking team since they have the upcoming play the ball) all has to get back behind the play the ball before it can be taken correct? It's not a union lineout situation.

So it won't be as fast as all that, but still quicker than a scrum. A long kick for touch will this still reap benefits but drilling one over the sideline from 20m out from the opposition line just to waste time won't be.

It still reduces the capacity to control a game but not entirely I guess.
I know I'm not up in the thread yet, but in answer to this question, Who the hell knows? Why does the defending team have to get back behind the pay the ball - the dummy half does, but as for the rest of them? That's their problem. That is (i.e.) the fullback is left completely posted... could be pretty funny actually. And utterly the opposite of the intention, when a dumb winger plays the ball to no-one.
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by Lui_Bon »

BJ wrote: December 26, 2020, 2:10 pm
greeneyed wrote:
BJ wrote: December 26, 2020, 9:20 am Commentators and NRL administration are confused about what they really want. speed of play the ball leads to dummy half running and flat passes at the ruck.

What fans really want (and why late 80s and 90s football was so great to watch) is speed of ball movement.

NRL is exciting when passing and running is fast, NOT when it’s just fast but safe hit ups.
Thank you BJ! May the powers that be read that. Happy Boxing Day!
Thanks GE. Same to you.

It shocks me that the NRL powers don’t seem to do proper analysis on the gameplay they want to encourage and potential rule changes.

You would think that cause and effect analysis followed by scenario planning would be the basis of NRL decision making.

NRL players, commentators and executive really pride themselves on gut instinct. This is a good approach when playing the game at breakneck speed, but not good enough for administration of a professionally run sport.

NRL coaches and knowledgeable players like Cam Smith and Cooper Cronk don’t rely on gut instinct, they properly analyse the game and look for strengths to develop and weaknesses to exploit.
Ok and now I've read the whole thread, it seems to me that what we want is a well policed offside, so that the attacking side has has the chance to develop an attack, and yet violently good defenders can make their hits if they can reach their targets. Sorry I've been watching NFL. And we'd also kill for refs who knew when to call "held".
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by BadnMean »

Lui_Bon wrote: December 27, 2020, 12:40 am
BadnMean wrote: December 15, 2020, 10:21 am

The defending team (well, now the attacking team since they have the upcoming play the ball) all has to get back behind the play the ball before it can be taken correct? It's not a union lineout situation.

So it won't be as fast as all that, but still quicker than a scrum. A long kick for touch will this still reap benefits but drilling one over the sideline from 20m out from the opposition line just to waste time won't be.

It still reduces the capacity to control a game but not entirely I guess.
I know I'm not up in the thread yet, but in answer to this question, Who the hell knows? Why does the defending team have to get back behind the pay the ball - the dummy half does, but as for the rest of them? That's their problem. That is (i.e.) the fullback is left completely posted... could be pretty funny actually. And utterly the opposite of the intention, when a dumb winger plays the ball to no-one.
As you said, we don't know. But my working assumption was that it would function similarly to the 20m tap restart for a 7 tackle set where you can rush to take it quick as you like but will be called back if all your team-mates haven't made it back by then time you tap it.

Of course, making it fit intuitively alongside other rules may not be on the agenda at all.

Now that I think about it- a play the ball -as distinct from a tap restart -has no compunction at all for your own team to all get back onside at all, except that they can't block or get involved in the play if they never got back on... It's more an open, rolling play situation. So will they give it "play the ball" rules or restart of play rules...

The clue might be in play the ball handovers for drops on the last etc... is that an onside to start situation?
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by gergreg »

BJ wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
BJ wrote: December 26, 2020, 9:20 am Commentators and NRL administration are confused about what they really want. speed of play the ball leads to dummy half running and flat passes at the ruck.

What fans really want (and why late 80s and 90s football was so great to watch) is speed of ball movement.

NRL is exciting when passing and running is fast, NOT when it’s just fast but safe hit ups.
Thank you BJ! May the powers that be read that. Happy Boxing Day!
Thanks GE. Same to you.

It shocks me that the NRL powers don’t seem to do proper analysis on the gameplay they want to encourage and potential rule changes.

You would think that cause and effect analysis followed by scenario planning would be the basis of NRL decision making.

NRL players, commentators and executive really pride themselves on gut instinct. This is a good approach when playing the game at breakneck speed, but not good enough for administration of a professionally run sport.

NRL coaches and knowledgeable players like Cam Smith and Cooper Cronk don’t rely on gut instinct, they properly analyse the game and look for strengths to develop and weaknesses to exploit.
What are you and a few others basing your opinions on? I'm not able to find any stats comparing the current game to the 'rose coloured glasses' 90's era. I have no idea whether there were more offloads in the 90's - I reckon there was definitely more errors though.

But when I look at games from that era I see next to no defensive structure, compared to the modern game. I see obvious weak links in the defensive line that would get exploited regularly. There are nowhere near as many of these weaknesses in modern teams. The players are bigger, fitter, faster, more skillfull and outright better than the 90s.

It's for these reasons the game felt more open back then... because the defence was garbage, comparatively. And you cannot wind back the clock and go back to that, it's impossible. But while you can't go back, cleaning up the ruck is a step in the right direction. The only way to create that space in the modern game is to have a quicker ruck which means the defensive line has to compress, which in turn creates the spaces on the edges OR by reducing the number of players to 12 or 11.

The grand finalists from last year were easily the most entertaining teams to watch... particularly Melbourne. They played an attractive brand of football, early shifts (or tactical kicks) to their speedy wingers. It is part of the reason that many posters on this site highlighted our lack of speed and youth out wide.

I'd much rather the best sides playing this attractive brand of football, rather than spoiling and suffocating the ruck tactics which rewards teams for slowing the game down.

Of course your teams hovering around the edge of the 8 are those ones that rely on quick play the balls and one out, unimaginative play - I'd argue that we play that way sometimes. But to win you needed more and Storm blew us away playing pretty awesome. It is no good creating that space with the quicker play and then not exploiting the space it creates on the edges or flanks.

What I do hate though is active coaches having any input to the rules of the game. It is good for our club having Ricky involved but I hate it. Bellamy is one of the craftiest coaches ever, if he could get away with their players carrying metal bars up their jerseys he would do it. Because winning is everything for him and he'll stoop to any level to get those miniscule advantages. I don't see how it is fair to have two coaches on there. If they're fair dinkum they have all of the current coaches providing input to the game or none at all.



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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by gangrenous »

Bloody brilliant post gergreg. Nailed it on everything.
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by BJ »

Actually I agree with you gergreg.

I think you have overanalysed my original post and added things I wasn’t actually saying. I want the type of fast ball movement you were mentioning. Storm do this better than us at the moment. We did it great in 2016 to 2018.
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by gergreg »

BJ wrote:Actually I agree with you gergreg.

I think you have overanalysed my original post and added things I wasn’t actually saying. I want the type of fast ball movement you were mentioning. Storm do this better than us at the moment. We did it great in 2016 to 2018.
Sorry.. I just grabbed a post that contained some discussion. It was more a response to some of the comments in this thread, maybe I shouldn't have quoted anybody.

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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

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Don’t worry BJ... I’m still on your side! ;) :D
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by BJ »

I think we’re all in agreement, that current NRL is a very good game to watch.

But unfortunately there’s still opportunities for some teams to come to game day and win the game through wrestling, slowing down the game play and attacking with flat passing and non stop block play football.

I think there’s a scope within the current rules for referees to crack down on teams pushing the limits and potentially some opportunities to encourage fast expansive football.
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Re: Raiders coach Ricky Stuart praises new NRL rule changes

Post by papabear »

Imo there is nothing wrong with playing short, playing long, running block plays...

Good teams just run the opposite of what teams are set up to defend.

Ie Melbourne going wide and burning our compressed line...

Or if you widen your line, playing short to exploit gaps in the middle.

Fundamentally though, like all sorts of games the game opens up when people are tired as ppl who still have good legs don’t make bad decisions or get into the right defensive position.

Thus less interchanges and time wasting stuff scrums (time between points scored or line drop outs) the better.
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