Jarrod Croker could get all clear for Round 1 after shoulder surgery

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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by BadnMean »

gangrenous wrote: January 19, 2021, 11:46 am I think you overstate how much of a problem this is. There is a time and place for it.

Plenty of more attacking fullbacks will attack and straight spill the ball often handing a prime attacking set on the goal line to the opposition.

Under pressure CNK makes more metres because he goes straight down instead of being drilled backwards (as we saw for the rookie who got put back in goal twice from memory).
There is absolutely a need for it sometimes. I think CNK just became a bit "gun shy" at times about submitting too early/too often or copping a few pastings and it almost became pre-emptive- you started to see him sitting down to catch the ball/falling over as he caught it fairly regularly.

In the scheme of things it's fairly minor but it is probably fairly easily rectified by working the bad habit out over the pre-season and being focused on being aware of when the opportunities to stand tall, catch and run and return positively are vs when there actually is real pressure on and the need to catch or get low.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by gergreg »

BadnMean wrote:
gangrenous wrote: January 19, 2021, 11:46 am I think you overstate how much of a problem this is. There is a time and place for it.

Plenty of more attacking fullbacks will attack and straight spill the ball often handing a prime attacking set on the goal line to the opposition.

Under pressure CNK makes more metres because he goes straight down instead of being drilled backwards (as we saw for the rookie who got put back in goal twice from memory).
There is absolutely a need for it sometimes. I think CNK just became a bit "gun shy" at times about submitting too early/too often or copping a few pastings and it almost became pre-emptive- you started to see him sitting down to catch the ball/falling over as he caught it fairly regularly.

In the scheme of things it's fairly minor but it is probably fairly easily rectified by working the bad habit out over the pre-season and being focused on being aware of when the opportunities to stand tall, catch and run and return positively are vs when there actually is real pressure on and the need to catch or get low.
Our Blockers need to be better. There was a crackdown on wingers drifting in to block chasers from the contest. To counteract it somewhat the centres need to work harder to get back and just impede the chasers a little. This is harder for referees to penalise as they are essentially tracking back with the ball instead of wingers moving into the pathway.

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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Green Blogger »

Lot of talk about Aekins here and he may well be first cab off the rank, but I would have thought that Hopoate also has the potential to come through and seriously challenge for the fullback spot if there is a change in the wind.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by BadnMean »

Green Blogger wrote: January 19, 2021, 1:06 pm Lot of talk about Aekins here and he may well be first cab off the rank, but I would have thought that Hopoate also has the potential to come through and seriously challenge for the fullback spot if there is a change in the wind.
I almost put Hopoate in the "hail mary" category. I don't think he was bought in as part of some essential need or plan for him.

2 knee reco's already at 19 means there's every chance his body just won't hold up and fulfill any potential. There's talk he's the best Hopoate but there's a lot of talk about players. From what I saw he's not the quickest outside back (not helped by his knees so maybe he has more to show) -which I'm looking for in our backline and under the new rules specifically. Speed is a little bit more important to cut through those retreating or staggered lines- we see it in hookers and FB's through the middle or wingers you can put away and shut the gate like JAC.

He played 5 or so games for Manly at wing and centre and I saw a couple. He was pretty anonymous in most of them and had one decent game where he did a reasonable wingers job- but nothing more than Simo or valemi have produced.

So he's a bit of a mystery bag. How much more he has to show in terms if skill in other positions I'm not sure- how much he was affected by those knees I'm not sure. Were all his missed tackles just the difficulty of defending on the wing vs tricky wingers/centres or is he easily brushed off?

I've just got him down like James in that great if he comes off but I'm not really expecting much from him.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by simo »

BadnMean wrote: January 19, 2021, 12:44 pm
gangrenous wrote: January 19, 2021, 11:46 am I think you overstate how much of a problem this is. There is a time and place for it.

Plenty of more attacking fullbacks will attack and straight spill the ball often handing a prime attacking set on the goal line to the opposition.

Under pressure CNK makes more metres because he goes straight down instead of being drilled backwards (as we saw for the rookie who got put back in goal twice from memory).
There is absolutely a need for it sometimes. I think CNK just became a bit "gun shy" at times about submitting too early/too often or copping a few pastings and it almost became pre-emptive- you started to see him sitting down to catch the ball/falling over as he caught it fairly regularly.

In the scheme of things it's fairly minor but it is probably fairly easily rectified by working the bad habit out over the pre-season and being focused on being aware of when the opportunities to stand tall, catch and run and return positively are vs when there actually is real pressure on and the need to catch or get low.
The bigger issue is that when this happens, croker often gets himself back for the yardage work and its really not ideal. We would be much better off if croker got into dummy half for a pass, or made himself a link man to get the ball further away from the ruck
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by gergreg »

BadnMean wrote:
Green Blogger wrote: January 19, 2021, 1:06 pm Lot of talk about Aekins here and he may well be first cab off the rank, but I would have thought that Hopoate also has the potential to come through and seriously challenge for the fullback spot if there is a change in the wind.
I almost put Hopoate in the "hail mary" category. I don't think he was bought in as part of some essential need or plan for him.

2 knee reco's already at 19 means there's every chance his body just won't hold up and fulfill any potential. There's talk he's the best Hopoate but there's a lot of talk about players. From what I saw he's not the quickest outside back (not helped by his knees so maybe he has more to show) -which I'm looking for in our backline and under the new rules specifically. Speed is a little bit more important to cut through those retreating or staggered lines- we see it in hookers and FB's through the middle or wingers you can put away and shut the gate like JAC.

He played 5 or so games for Manly at wing and centre and I saw a couple. He was pretty anonymous in most of them and had one decent game where he did a reasonable wingers job- but nothing more than Simo or valemi have produced.

So he's a bit of a mystery bag. How much more he has to show in terms if skill in other positions I'm not sure- how much he was affected by those knees I'm not sure. Were all his missed tackles just the difficulty of defending on the wing vs tricky wingers/centres or is he easily brushed off?

I've just got him down like James in that great if he comes off but I'm not really expecting much from him.
Agreed on Hopoate. I also heard the comments that he was the best in the family but was not impressed with what I saw. Manly completely ravaged with injury and he looked pretty disinterested.

However I wouldn't class James in the same way.

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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by BadnMean »

simo wrote: January 19, 2021, 1:39 pm
The bigger issue is that when this happens, croker often gets himself back for the yardage work and its really not ideal. We would be much better off if croker got into dummy half for a pass, or made himself a link man to get the ball further away from the ruck
Yeah I was crying out for us to go a bit wider early in sets last season. A few other teams did it to pretty good effect. It's worth the change up to spread a team as you're likely to get smashed and make 2m either way. At least if you do go wider once or twice you might get the reward or at least create the kind of doubt/space for someone like Croker to be more effective even when he does run himself to do his little slide between defenders to at least get his nose through for a quick play the ball like he used to do fairly often.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by greeneyed »

It's not fully clear at the moment that Hopoate is on the top 30 or development player list.

He is on the club's top 30 list, according to NRL.com: Sticky selections: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/11/05/202 ... s/#raiders

If that's the case, the Raiders have filled their 30 player top squad (and possibly their development list, they now have six).

But on the Raiders' last issued list, he's listed as an Under 21s or "on-going" training player: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2020/12 ... d-tracker/

Unless Hopoate on the top 30 or development list, he can't play first grade.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Finchy »

gangrenous wrote: January 19, 2021, 11:46 am I think you overstate how much of a problem this is. There is a time and place for it.

Plenty of more attacking fullbacks will attack and straight spill the ball often handing a prime attacking set on the goal line to the opposition.

Under pressure CNK makes more metres because he goes straight down instead of being drilled backwards (as we saw for the rookie who got put back in goal twice from memory).
There's a time and a place for the "fall over" catch (to avoid getting pushed back into the in goal). But CNK does it every catch, more as an "insurance" of catching the ball, rather than avoiding being shoved in goal. In that case he needs to improve his catching skills. The opposition knows this, and they bomb to him incessantly with a good kick-chase, knowing he's not a threat at the back. He needs to be seen as a threat to the opposition rather than a liability, otherwise they will just keeping kicking to him all night to force an error or smash him.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Botman »

I dont think you can overstate how much impact CNK's work under the high ball hurts us from a field position and early set metre gain perspective.

He offsets it a little with his workrate on early tackles but it's doing things the hard way for sure and certain
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Belcher#1 »

Green Blogger wrote: January 19, 2021, 1:06 pm Lot of talk about Aekins here and he may well be first cab off the rank, but I would have thought that Hopoate also has the potential to come through and seriously challenge for the fullback spot if there is a change in the wind.
did people not watch Aekins play for the panthers last year? He killed their attack and looked a massive liability. Panther fans were happy to see the back of him
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Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by gangrenous »

I think if you look at how often he would have got significantly further having not dropped, it’s not going to be all that often. It stands out like a sore thumb because it’s very noticeable, but not super damaging IMO.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:30 pm I think if you look at how often he would have got significantly further having not dropped, it’s not going to be all that often. It stands out like a sore thumb because it’s very noticeable, but not super damaging IMO.
I dont think its a massive deal either, and he does offset it with workrate, but it does make everyone in the team have to work harder. An extra 10 metres on a kick return, even 10 times a game, which i think is about right, adds up. And it's got to be part of the CNK-fullback progression evaluation.
It's an easy thing for him to improve. He's got all the skills, he just needs to be a little less risk adverse when there pressure on him.
Belcher#1 wrote: January 19, 2021, 7:20 pm
Green Blogger wrote: January 19, 2021, 1:06 pm Lot of talk about Aekins here and he may well be first cab off the rank, but I would have thought that Hopoate also has the potential to come through and seriously challenge for the fullback spot if there is a change in the wind.
did people not watch Aekins play for the panthers last year? He killed their attack and looked a massive liability. Panther fans were happy to see the back of him
As i said above, you wouldnt drop CNK for him. He's the same sort of player but almost certainly a worst version of it.
You'd only move CNK if you had a creative ball player available to slot in. We dont have that in our squad in 2021 (unless we think Hoppa can do that? i dont know much about him other than he was highly touted)

But if he doesnt make big strides in in the ball playing department we need to redeploy him somewhere else IMO.
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Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote: I dont think its a massive deal either, and he does offset it with workrate, but it does make everyone in the team have to work harder. An extra 10 metres on a kick return, even 10 times a game, which i think is about right, adds up. And it's got to be part of the CNK-fullback progression evaluation.
It's an easy thing for him to improve. He's got all the skills, he just needs to be a little less risk adverse when there pressure on him.
There is no way he’s giving up 10m, ten times a game. He’s not even catching 10 bombs a game surely, let alone having sat on his **** for all of them and for them all 10 be giving up significant metres instead of under imminent tackling pressure.

You also need more than just a ball playing fullback to replace him. He has been an integral part of the defensive starch for the last 2 years. Organising the defensive line, plugging holes, shutting down breaks one on one, superb positioning for attacking kick clean up. If you replace him with someone who throws a couple of extra good passes in attack chances are the team is at a significant net negative.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Botman »

Its not just the bombs though. He's very reluctant to attack the footy on any kind of kick
Rolling balls he often stops with his feet or is completely stationary until he's secured possession before he moves forward.... He almost never comes forward and attacks the football and it all adds up.

As said, CNK is wonderful at most aspects of fullback play, particularly defensively and positionally... but in attack, be it on kick returns or in the ball player role, his style of play means everything is a little bit hard... winning the field position battle is harder, working it out of our own end is a little bit hard, creating points out of basic structure, especially in red zone is A LOT harder.

That said, we dont concede goal line drop outs often when it's avoidable. We dont coff up a ton of ball from our fullback on kicks. We have good and consistent commuication from the back, and that helps us be a consistently stout defense. He saves tries regularly as a last line defender. As a ball runner and tackle breaker, he provides us a valuable weapon if going at a retreating defence.

That's what makes it tough. He's so good in so many areas of fullback play, but arguably the two most important areas of fullback play in 2021, are his greatest weakness.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Botman »

Also re: CNK.... the club and he need to really REALLY consider how he manages his body and fluid during the course of a game. The club and he have jointly struggled to manage him in very HIGH intensity games... i dont fault him for it, but the fact he had to go off the park in the GF because of cramps and then a year later, he could barely move in (i think) the roosters semi is troublesome to me

We cant have that. Just cant. His workrate is high, but thats the position. A bunch of other dudes work that way too and they dont have these issues. And it's such a specialist position that we cant really carry someone to cover it. And to be perfectly clear, that's a performance management issue imo, I see that more as a fault of the club than him, but he and the club need to figure it out
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Seiffert82 »

I thought CNK was outstanding under the high ball back in 2019. After the first round of the yips against the Titans he was almost faultless under the high ball the rest of the season.

Last season he seemed to play with a bit more constraint and at times seemed quite scared to make a mistake in defending high balls. His confidence was impacted and he clearly adjusted his style to reduce the risk of a spill.

It will be interesting to see how he starts 2021. I hope he plays with a bit more freedom and confidence. At his best he's one of the best in the business in defending the high ball.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

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Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 9:07 pm Also re: CNK.... the club and he need to really REALLY consider how he manages his body and fluid during the course of a game. The club and he have jointly struggled to manage him in very HIGH intensity games... i dont fault him for it, but the fact he had to go off the park in the GF because of cramps and then a year later, he could barely move in (i think) the roosters semi is troublesome to me

We cant have that. Just cant. His workrate is high, but thats the position. A bunch of other dudes work that way too and they dont have these issues. And it's such a specialist position that we cant really carry someone to cover it. And to be perfectly clear, that's a performance management issue imo, I see that more as a fault of the club than him, but he and the club need to figure it out
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

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Northern Raider wrote:
Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 9:07 pm Also re: CNK.... the club and he need to really REALLY consider how he manages his body and fluid during the course of a game. The club and he have jointly struggled to manage him in very HIGH intensity games... i dont fault him for it, but the fact he had to go off the park in the GF because of cramps and then a year later, he could barely move in (i think) the roosters semi is troublesome to me

We cant have that. Just cant. His workrate is high, but thats the position. A bunch of other dudes work that way too and they dont have these issues. And it's such a specialist position that we cant really carry someone to cover it. And to be perfectly clear, that's a performance management issue imo, I see that more as a fault of the club than him, but he and the club need to figure it out
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Belcher#1 »

Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 9:07 pm Also re: CNK.... the club and he need to really REALLY consider how he manages his body and fluid during the course of a game. The club and he have jointly struggled to manage him in very HIGH intensity games... i dont fault him for it, but the fact he had to go off the park in the GF because of cramps and then a year later, he could barely move in (i think) the roosters semi is troublesome to me

We cant have that. Just cant. His workrate is high, but thats the position. A bunch of other dudes work that way too and they dont have these issues. And it's such a specialist position that we cant really carry someone to cover it. And to be perfectly clear, that's a performance management issue imo, I see that more as a fault of the club than him, but he and the club need to figure it out
I'd rather the rest of the backline put in more effort so CNK doesn't have to almost kill himself every game.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Northern Raider »

Belcher#1 wrote: January 20, 2021, 12:13 pm
Botman wrote: January 19, 2021, 9:07 pm Also re: CNK.... the club and he need to really REALLY consider how he manages his body and fluid during the course of a game. The club and he have jointly struggled to manage him in very HIGH intensity games... i dont fault him for it, but the fact he had to go off the park in the GF because of cramps and then a year later, he could barely move in (i think) the roosters semi is troublesome to me

We cant have that. Just cant. His workrate is high, but thats the position. A bunch of other dudes work that way too and they dont have these issues. And it's such a specialist position that we cant really carry someone to cover it. And to be perfectly clear, that's a performance management issue imo, I see that more as a fault of the club than him, but he and the club need to figure it out
I'd rather the rest of the backline put in more effort so CNK doesn't have to almost kill himself every game.
Funny. If we listed the top 10 problems with our backline I seriously doubt Lack of Effort would be among them.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Ilanraiders »

Unsure if it’s been mentioned in this thread but who’s gonna be our goal kicker when the skip is out for the start of this season??
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

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Ilanraiders wrote:Unsure if it’s been mentioned in this thread but who’s gonna be our goal kicker when the skip is out for the start of this season??
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Finchy »

Ilanraiders wrote: January 26, 2021, 8:10 am Unsure if it’s been mentioned in this thread but who’s gonna be our goal kicker when the skip is out for the start of this season??
I suspect Croker won’t miss any games. However if he does, I assume George will kick.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

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Ilanraiders wrote: January 26, 2021, 8:10 am Unsure if it’s been mentioned in this thread but who’s gonna be our goal kicker when the skip is out for the start of this season??
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

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Cranky Old Man wrote: January 26, 2021, 6:52 pm
Ilanraiders wrote: January 26, 2021, 8:10 am Unsure if it’s been mentioned in this thread but who’s gonna be our goal kicker when the skip is out for the start of this season??
Pappali
Hes done everything else, why not give him goal kicking duties!!
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Finchy »

Toots not holding back playing cricket on the latest Roaming Elliott video. Hopefully a good sign his shoulder recovery is going ok.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders captain Jarrod Croker is still eyeing off a round one return

Raiders skipper Jarrod Croker bwill meet with his surgeon in early March to assess whether round one's season opener against the Wests Tigers is a viable option.

"I haven't seen the surgeon since I took the sling off in December - he could tell me six weeks or he could tell me I'm right to go," Croker said. "I'm just preparing to be as strong as I can and as good as I can for when I see him. My feeling hasn't changed that I want to be back as soon as possible."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

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No need to rush.


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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Sid »

Agree, it's the start of the season, probably the best time to blood a young centre a bit more

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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Botman »

This is a pivitol year for Croker.
His play FINALLY caught up with the criticism last year, and it's only going to intensify if he cant perform at his best. He has to come back 100% and show he's got some juice left in him. A very cold and tough decision looms if his 2021 is more of 2020, rather than 2019
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Roger Kenworthy
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: February 13, 2021, 8:41 pm This is a pivitol year for Croker.
His play FINALLY caught up with the criticism last year, and it's only going to intensify if he cant perform at his best. He has to come back 100% and show he's got some juice left in him. A very cold and tough decision looms if his 2021 is more of 2020, rather than 2019
:roflmao

He's in the first year of a four year deal. No hard decisions will be made, he isn't going to walk away with $2 million on the table.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Seiffert82 »

More so hard decisions for the coach methinks.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Seiffert82 wrote: February 14, 2021, 10:21 am More so hard decisions for the coach methinks.
Pretty obvious Croker is firmly in the good books. The only hard decision I can see being made is Croker having his final couple of seasons as a Hazem type winger.
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Re: Jarrod Croker to miss start of 2021 season after shoulder surgery

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: February 14, 2021, 10:21 am More so hard decisions for the coach methinks.
Correct.
Stuart is certainly going to give Croker every chance and then some to prove he still has something to give. That will include the entirity of 2021. If we see more of his 2020 play, or worse... I dont for one second believe Stuart wont have the balls to make a tough call
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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