Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

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Mickey_Raider
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Re: Team for next year

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Botman wrote: October 22, 2020, 9:29 pm
moto748 wrote: October 20, 2020, 10:12 pm Bur he worked on, and improved, his defence, and people stopped talking about it.
I mean half of this is right, but lets at least be absolutely **** honest about it.
People... those people never stopped talking about it even when it was objectively not a major problem :lol:
His defence has NEVER something not talked about. Ever.
I believe one of the reasons for that is that even at his absolute peak where his defence was objectively not a major problem on the whole, he was still susceptible to being absolutely monstered by the likes of Hurrell and other larger centres every now and then.
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Re: Team for next year

Post by KasparRaider »

Colk wrote: October 22, 2020, 9:13 pm
afgtnk wrote: October 22, 2020, 9:03 pm
moto748 wrote: October 20, 2020, 10:12 pm The thing about Croker, as I see it, is that if you go back a few years, he seemed to be regarded (rightly) pretty much by everyone as a complete turnstile. Bur he worked on, and improved, his defence, and people stopped talking about it. Now those defensive frailties seem to have re-emerged (or is it that our standards/expectations have increased, I don't know). Maybe it's the difference between, what's good enough for a 'bottom half' team, and what's good enough for a squad challenging for silverware.

Someone asked upthread about George as a kicker. Yeah, he did kick for us at one time, wiki tells me, 70 goals. But I think he was dragooned into the role when Matty Smith and Sam Tomkins left, and was never keen on it. I'd see him as a back-up kicker, who can knock them over from in front all right, but won't get too many from the touch-line. In fact it amazes me how some top NRL sides seem to think they can manage without a 'proper' kicker. And Croker, whatever you say about him, is certainly that.
George's kicking percentage is quite bad in the SL from memory - mid 60% or thereabouts. Nowhere near good enough to be a first stringer.

If we managed to sign Zac Lomax like many of us hoped in the off-season instead of downgrading our ambition by landing Scott we wouldn't have a problem, as the guy is a very handy kicker (near 80%) and can kick the thing a mile.
True. I wonder if there are any goal kickers available to sign?
I read someone that Ricky swears Papa is a great goal kicker and he was really disappointed that when he had the one chance to kick one (his 200th game?) he muffed it.
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Re: Team for next year

Post by Colk »

Mickey_Raider wrote: October 23, 2020, 8:24 am
Botman wrote: October 22, 2020, 9:29 pm
moto748 wrote: October 20, 2020, 10:12 pm Bur he worked on, and improved, his defence, and people stopped talking about it.
I mean half of this is right, but lets at least be absolutely **** honest about it.
People... those people never stopped talking about it even when it was objectively not a major problem :lol:
His defence has NEVER something not talked about. Ever.
I believe one of the reasons for that is that even at his absolute peak where his defence was objectively not a major problem on the whole, he was still susceptible to being absolutely monstered by the likes of Hurrell and other larger centres every now and then.
That is true. He is not a big centre in any case and if you lose your pace, the lack of size then becomes a problem not only in defence but also in attack.
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Re: Team for next year

Post by BVRaider »

1. Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Simonsson
3. Croker
4. Scott
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. Lui
11. Whitehead
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Young
16. Sutton
17. Guler

18. Horsburgh
19. James
20. Soliola
21. Havili
22. Rushton
23. Valemei
24. Smith-Shields
25. Timoko
26. Aekins
27. S.Williams
28. Frawley
29. O'Donnell
30. Medlyn
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Re: Team for next year

Post by greeneyed »

Predicted NRL teams for 2021

RAIDERS

1 Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
2 Jordan Rapana
3 Jarrod Croker
4 Curtis Scott
5 Bailey Simonsson
6 Jack Wighton
7 George Williams
8 Josh Papalii
9 Josh Hodgson
10 Dunamis Lui
11 Elliott Whitehead
12 Corey Harawira-Naera
13 Joe Tapine

14 Hudson Young
15 Emre Guler
16 Sia Soliola
17 Corey Horsburgh

2021 squad: Caleb Aekins, Adam Cook, Jarrod Croker, Matt Frawley, Emre Guler, Corey Harawira-Naera, Siliva Havili, Josh Hodgson, Corey Horsburgh, Ryan James, Dunamis Lui, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad, Josh Papalii, Jordan Rapana, Harry Rushton, Curtis Scott, Bailey Simonsson, Harley Smith-Shields, Sia Soliola, Tom Starling, Ryan Sutton, Joe Tapine, Matt Timoko, Semi Valemei, Elliott Whitehead, Jack Wighton, George Williams, Sam Williams, Hudson Young

2021 gains: Caleb Aekins (Panthers), Harry Rushton (Wigan), Ryan James (Titans)

2021 losses: Nick Cotric (Bulldogs), John Bateman (Wigan), Michael Oldfield (Eels), Andre Niko, Kurt Baptiste (Sunshine Coast Falcons)

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 8e4e79fe2f
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by afgtnk »

Yeah, we're not playing four middle forwards on the bench thanks Fox Sports.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Chicka Chicka Chicka »

Tom Starling has to be on the bench
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by BadnMean »

To be fair, that's one of the better predicted Raiders squads Fox have put together over the years. Not only are all the players still at the club, but they are in their correct positions. Although I am concerned they have left Crocker out...

Havilii or Starling will be on the bench, surely.

Curtis Scott will be in a big battle with Timoko for that centre spot but it's 50/50 who'll get it.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

What's the go with playing Jordan Rapana on the left and Simo on the right!? Irritated me no end last season. Wouldn't surprise me though.

Anyway, I'm a bit terrified of a RHS defence comprising Harawira-Naera, Williams, Scott and Simonsson. Will see what happens.

And there is no way we'll use a bench with bugger all utility value.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Dusty »

1. CNK
2. Valemei
3. Croker
4. Scott
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. Lui
11. CHN
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Young
16/17/18. Guler, Horsburgh, Sutton


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2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
14. Simmonson 15. Soliola 16. Guler 17. Horsburgh
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by BJ »

I agree it’s not the worst effort by Fox.

The Daily Telegraph usually include a long gone player like Josh McCrone and some numpty reserve we picked up from Parra or Bulldogs.

Also they put Papalli in the second row and Wighton at fullback.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders: 2021 round 1 predicted team

Skipper Jarrod Croker will miss the first few rounds due to shoulder surgery, with Matt Timoko or Harley Smith-Shields likely to fill the breach. With Josh Hodgson pushing to return from a knee reconstruction as early as round one, 2020 breakout star Tom Starling will be hard to leave off the bench – particularly while Hodgson builds confidence back in that knee.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Bailey Simonsson
3. Matt Timoko
4. Curtis Scott
5. Jordan Rapana
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson (c)
10. Dunamis Lui
11. Corey Harawira-Naera
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Tom Starling
15. Hudson Young
16. Sia Soliola
17. Corey Horsburgh

Others: Caleb Aekins, Adam Cook, Jarrod Croker (c), Matt Frawley, Emre Guler, Silvia Havili, Ryan James, Harry Rushton, Harley Smith-Shields, Ryan Sutton, Sam Williams, Semi Valemei

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/12/23/can ... cted-team/ via @NRL
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by -PJ- »

This has Jamie Sowards fingerprints all over it so..
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Roy Rover »

Can’t see Ryan James not starting round one.

Still not convinced CHN is a better option in the back row than Hudson Young.

Starling may miss out.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by greeneyed »

Roy Rover wrote: December 27, 2020, 9:15 pm Can’t see Ryan James not starting round one.

Still not convinced CHN is a better option in the back row than Hudson Young.

Starling may miss out.
Ryan James shouldn’t start Round 1. The forwards are so strong, he needs to earn his spot. I’m not convinced on CHN either.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by BadnMean »

I think that could very well be our round one 13. It's certainly a credible one.

The bench/forwards being the main debate point. I'm in the Young has the makings of an excellent NRL lock or an adequate NRL edge camp so if he's sharing middle minutes with Tapine I'm ok with that.

Hors seems like the furthest behind in his rehab (still limping around) and isn't the most mobile bloke. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Guler, Sutton or James (in that order) get the nod first.

I don't think Ricky will make his mind up until the trials either.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by -PJ- »

Papa, Hodgo, Whitey and Taps are locked in.

The other two spots are wide open.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Assuming Rapana slots back into the right wing, positions 2, 3, 4, 10 and 11 in the starting team are all question marks for me.

I've never really been convinced of Simonnson, although he's a solid but unspectacular option on the left. Valemei has more upside IMO. Curtis Scott had a season from hell last year, so I'm not sure why he walks back into the 4 jersey. Hopefully he's fit and mentally ready to go. Stuart could go any number of ways with that position, although he seems to like Scott as a person and sees him as a project.

Dunamis Lui had a great season last year, but again is no certainty to claim that starting front row role. If Ryan James or Emre Guler are fit then I reckon the coach is every chance of slotting either of them in there. Alternatively, Taps may play that role with Young starting at lock, but that's less likely.

With the post-surgery recovery for Croker, the number 3 spot is almost the most interesting for mine. Timoko? Smith-Shields? Kris?

I'm sure Stuart will give CHN every chance to claim that right hand second row spot, but he definitely needs to step up with his defence - was often caught out taking nobody. Not sure how old mate Harry Rushton is going to go, but he and Young will put pressure on CHN to take that spot.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Northern Raider »

If Hodgo is playing it will be Havili on the bench. Starling doesn't provide enough value in that scenario.

Lots of competition for the middle forward spots. Paps and Tapine are certs. Everybody else needs to earn their spot. Going to be some high quality players miss out.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by sprintman »

Been many years since we had players pushing for every position.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Northern Raider »

sprintman wrote: December 28, 2020, 10:53 am Been many years since we had players pushing for every position.
Except halves. That's locked down, which is another pleasant change.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Botman »

Roy Rover wrote: December 27, 2020, 9:15 pm Can’t see Ryan James not starting round one.

Still not convinced CHN is a better option in the back row than Hudson Young.

Starling may miss out.
Spend some time in the off season watching Hudson Young on the edge and then in the middle.
This is absolute madness.. if you're not sold on CHN fine and dandy but wanting to move Young out there when he was such a massive weapon as a middle forward is absolutely **** insane.
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GO;
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Wiki Special »

At the end of last season I think Papa (obviously), Tapine and Young had clearly stamped themselves as our coaches preferred middle combination. I will be surprised if they don't get first shot at 8, 10, 13. The 3 bench forwards is going to be intriguing.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Matt »

Wiki Special wrote: December 28, 2020, 2:00 pm At the end of last season I think Papa (obviously), Tapine and Young had clearly stamped themselves as our coaches preferred middle combination. I will be surprised if they don't get first shot at 8, 10, 13. The 3 bench forwards is going to be intriguing.
Not sure about that. The 1st 2, sure, but I think Ricky likes Huddos impact off the pine.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Matt »

I think there are 7 players who are definitely there come Rd 1; CNK, Jack, George, Papa, Tarpz, Whitey and Hodgo, who sounds like he will have recovered from his ACL by then.

Unless we have another 80%+ goal kicker floating around, lock Croker in once fit.

So,
1. CNK
2.
3. Croker *
4.
5.
6. Jack
7. George
8. Papa
9. Hodgo
10.
11.
12. Whitey
13. Tapine

14.
15.
16.
17.

I think its safe to say we will see 2 of Rapana, Simmo or Valemei. However,  the signing of Hoppa makes things a little more interesting. Now, I believe Ricky has a preference for experience, which means I reckon Rapa gets 1 of them. Given the Raiders were happy to let Rapa go to rugby for Simmo, I think he probably pips the young flyer.

As for the centres, I'd be surprised if Scott doesn't start at right centre, BUT, if he doesn't its because Timoko and HSS have had blinder off-seasons. Not sure if its notable or not, but in the Baby Raiders game vs the Sharks, HSS played left with Timoko on the right. So, does that mean HSS fills in for Croker?  Again, Hoppa being added makes it more complicated, but wait and see.

I'll come back to the middles, coz they will feature on the bench, so ill skip to Batemans replacement. Im very tempted to call this a lock, as I think Huddo has proven his worth as a mobile middle, and who knows what Harry Rushton brings this off-season. CHN was bought last yr to be that guy. No question his yr was hampered last yr, but for those that forgot, he played a big roll in the Maori vs Indigenous allstars game to start the yr, and not long ago, was an NZ international.

So, we have the starting prop and the 4 benches. After last yrs late efforts in the middle and his ability to side onto an edge if needed, I reckon Young is the 1st man picked on the bench. Then it gets interesting...
You have Lui, who just had a career yr. He is a club, coach and fan favourite; the Nami Army. However, there is a strong argument that he wouldn't have had that year if Horsburgh didn't get injured, coz he was playing big mins and Origin level footy. Lui may have taken Horsburghs spot. Not to mention, Sutton forced Lui out of the team there at 1 stage. Sutton's 2nd half of the season was very productive, and had he not got injured in the last round of the season, Ricky would have had a tough selection on his hands for the finals.
Then there is Emre Guler, who forced his way into the 2019 finals campaign, at Sutton's expense, and in my humble opinion, was on a Paul Vaughan type rise in 2020 before his injury. He is a big, mobile, meter eater. I can see Origin footy in his future.
Which leaves the new recruit, Ryan James, and the old head, Sia Soliola. I think most would agree that age isn't on Sias side, and that his form is starting to wane, so lock him into a part-time player role, with a big mentor/coach type role, and thus "Mr 18th" status. Ryan 'always injured' James, is the wildcard. This is likely his last post, but he will have to earn ever cap. There are players who have taken this team to the edge of glory.
The last piece of the puzzle is, utility 9, utility back or not at all? Esp while Hodgo is returning, I think you have to carry someone. While Starling is the better hooker, he doesn't provide any versatility. So, I expect Havili to hold a spot.

Which means:
1. CNK
2. Simmo
3. HSS vs Timoko (Croker*)
4. Scott
5. Rapa
6. Jack
7. George
8. Papa
9. Hodgo
10. Horsburgh
11. CHN
12. Whitey
13. Tapine

14. Havili
15. Young
16. Guler
17. Sutton

18. Lui
19. James
20. Sia
21. Timoko vs HSS
22. Valemei
23. Starling
24. Sammy
25. Frawley
26. Hoppa
27. Aekins
28. Rushton
29. *Timoko vs HSS (2nd one after Croker returns)
30. Cook
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by BadnMean »

Northern Raider wrote: December 28, 2020, 9:50 am If Hodgo is playing it will be Havili on the bench. Starling doesn't provide enough value in that scenario.

Lots of competition for the middle forward spots. Paps and Tapine are certs. Everybody else needs to earn their spot. Going to be some high quality players miss out.
Disagree. Starling is perfect for the faster game. If we have 2 bench props doing 40-50 minutes each + Young doing 30-40 minutes at lock + providing each cover, we have plenty there. Starling is a genuine needle mover at hooker, Havilii is a solid FG'er. You ideally want a needle mover ala Brandon Smith in his style or Starling in his style off the bench.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Northern Raider »

BadnMean wrote: December 28, 2020, 4:05 pm
Northern Raider wrote: December 28, 2020, 9:50 am If Hodgo is playing it will be Havili on the bench. Starling doesn't provide enough value in that scenario.

Lots of competition for the middle forward spots. Paps and Tapine are certs. Everybody else needs to earn their spot. Going to be some high quality players miss out.
Disagree. Starling is perfect for the faster game. If we have 2 bench props doing 40-50 minutes each + Young doing 30-40 minutes at lock + providing each cover, we have plenty there. Starling is a genuine needle mover at hooker, Havilii is a solid FG'er. You ideally want a needle mover ala Brandon Smith in his style or Starling in his style off the bench.
I understand that reasoning and it has merit. Problem is Starling can only perform one role and for him to go on Hodgo has to come off. If Hodgo is going well that won't happen. Havili can at least give a 20 burst in the middle. He's done the well in the past.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by afgtnk »

I'd be very surprised if Sticky doesn't play an outside back on the bench, now that Bateman is gone. Starling in that case would not give us enough value.

Josh Hodgson being his old self or close to it playing well, which is what we'd be banking on happening, isn't a guy you want coming off. There's been some recency bias creeping in around the place since he became injured, because Starling is currently absolutely nowhere near his level - particularly inside the opposition 20 when he's in form.

Havili can punch out anywhere between 10 to 50 minutes if need be playing as a middle, and his play at hooker isn't that far of a drop down from Tom if he's needed to do time there. It's a no brainer, IMO.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by BadnMean »

Northern Raider wrote: December 28, 2020, 4:12 pm
BadnMean wrote: December 28, 2020, 4:05 pm
Northern Raider wrote: December 28, 2020, 9:50 am If Hodgo is playing it will be Havili on the bench. Starling doesn't provide enough value in that scenario.

Lots of competition for the middle forward spots. Paps and Tapine are certs. Everybody else needs to earn their spot. Going to be some high quality players miss out.
Disagree. Starling is perfect for the faster game. If we have 2 bench props doing 40-50 minutes each + Young doing 30-40 minutes at lock + providing each cover, we have plenty there. Starling is a genuine needle mover at hooker, Havilii is a solid FG'er. You ideally want a needle mover ala Brandon Smith in his style or Starling in his style off the bench.
I understand that reasoning and it has merit. Problem is Starling can only perform one role and for him to go on Hodgo has to come off. If Hodgo is going well that won't happen. Havili can at least give a 20 burst in the middle. He's done the well in the past.
I reckon Hodgo is better for the rest actually. I think he needs the pressure taken off him just a tad. Early season especially, + age + 2 knees... he suffers a bit soaking all that up in the middle all season and still being consistently crisp in his decision making. His main fault is that he tries to do everything all the time. Just that little breather here and there I think would be good for him, especially early season. But that's just me.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by greeneyed »

The issue is Hodgson is rarely in form inside the 20 metres. There... I said it. He needs to do a lot of work to lift his game. Frankly, I thought the team looked better in the second half of the year, with Starling and Havili at dummy half, than in the first.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by afgtnk »

Hodgson's service out of dummy half when he's not being overly selfish is absolutely first class, as is his decision making. Starling won't be catching him in that regard any time soon, and frankly risks going down the Baptiste path if he isn't able to improve it.

Hodgo does need to find the right balance now that we've got two class halves, no doubt. The selfish trait isn't consistent - it comes and goes. In form though and in the right frame of mind, Hodgson v Starling isn't even a debate.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by greeneyed »

I agree Hodgson is great when in form. The best Raiders hooker of all time after Walters. But as soon as Peter Sterling declared he’d surpassed Cameron Smith this year, he was in awful form. It was almost like a switch flicked. He’s not consistent enough and needs to do a lot of work to get his combinations going with his halves. And it’s not a recent issue. His mistrust in his halves might have been excusable before, but it’s not now.
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by Botman »

askhaskla is on the money that there is recency bias regarding how good Josh Hodgson is. And certainly he, anywhere near his best, offers us more than almost any player in our football team can offer
His 2020 was not very good but i believe his issues with the halves are of our own making, he has not been given a reason to trust his halves for the most part, he has rightly felt the footy is best placed in his hands and that has led to him over playing his hand at times

He doesnt need to do that anymore and that's going to be an adjustment. One he didnt get right before injury ended his 2020 campaign but i dont for one second believe he wouldnt have gotten there. Jack and George have runs on the board and they can handle the responsibility, Hodgson on the downside of his career now needs to be a player who begins to pick his spots. i have the upmost confidence he'll do that and the three will combine well .

That all said, as much as i appreciate Havilii and i think aslkaka has nailed how the coach will see it and ultimately play it. To me Tom Starling proved himself far to good to not be in our team. And given the versatility we have across the squad with Young, CHN, Whitehead, Wighton... id personally lean towards Starling on my bench ahread of Havilii or an outside back

Havilii is very useful, and i certainly wouldnt argue too much with anyone leaning his way... but Starling is a creative spark that i think we really need.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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BadnMean
Jason Croker
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Joined: May 13, 2013, 5:30 pm
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by BadnMean »

I think people are ignoring a little bit how much the faster game advantages faster hookers. Starling looked as good as anyone. Penrith with Api went gangbusters. Roosters faded once Verrils was injured and Friend was the only option. Rabbits looked the goods with Cook back in form, even without Latrell.

While Hodgo stunk under the new rules. I'm not saying he can't adapt (Smith was still Smith, after all). But I think there is room for Starling in the 17, in fact he may be a trump card from the bench. Whereas Havilii offers solid utility.
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MrPosh
Glenn Lazarus
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Re: Your predicted Canberra Raiders team for next year?

Post by MrPosh »

Botman wrote: December 28, 2020, 12:27 pm
Roy Rover wrote: December 27, 2020, 9:15 pm Can’t see Ryan James not starting round one.

Still not convinced CHN is a better option in the back row than Hudson Young.

Starling may miss out.
Spend some time in the off season watching Hudson Young on the edge and then in the middle.
This is absolute madness.. if you're not sold on CHN fine and dandy but wanting to move Young out there when he was such a massive weapon as a middle forward is absolutely **** insane.
I don't know that's necessarily the case.

I appreciate Young moved up a level as he switched to the middle, but he's a young player (pun acknowledged) and there's every chance that his improvement was down to other factors and coincided with his switch to the middle.
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