2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
1
5%
Raiders 1-12
16
84%
Storm 1-12
1
5%
Storm 13+
1
5%
 
Total votes: 19

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Ultima
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Ultima »

COVID effected all games, no crowd, major bonus to clubs with no real fans, they had to fly/drive back the same night, not the usual for night matches. They were unable to travel there the day before and get use to the weather, etc.

If you really think that there isn't a measurable difference when professional athletes get their preparation and recovery interrupted there is an entire industry of doctors and scientists who you need to convince first.
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afgtnk
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by afgtnk »

....... that's not what's being said. No one has claimed that. That has happened to all clubs, not just ours. We are not special in that regard.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by BJ »

You do realise that 8 games at home, 12 games away equals 2/3rds of games played out of Canberra?

Plus all the Sydney teams got to play plenty of games at their home ground or very nearby based on the hub structure. Parra were certainly advantaged by their schedule.

Anyway, I’m getting totally confused by the over complication of this argument.

No surprise to me that our performances improved when we had a more normal home and away schedule over the second half of the season.

But Covid has been tough on all the teams! As I said before, Warriors the most toughest and probably us and Storm second most. So I think it’s a fair outcome for us to have to travel to Brisbane for the semi final.

Good to see Parra bow out tonight, I think their draw helped them gain an unwarranted top four position.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by greeneyed »

Fair dinkum.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Dusty »

Simple

We win


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2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by afgtnk »

It's complicated because not one of you guys are analysing what's actually gone on here. You're buying a line that's been pushed by the club, maybe by the media themselves too, but has little to no factual basis as far as we can see. Because it's been pushed so much, it's been taken as fact without questioning its validity.

2/20 games of ours were affected by irregular travel detrimental to us, that was not consistent with the kind of travel we'd make in any given draw, in any given season. 10%. For the remaining 18 games, we would be expected to make that kind of travel in any given season. If you don't believe me, look at our draw. The period in which we could not play any games in Canberra lasted for five rounds. Two home games were scheduled in that period - these were moved to Campbelltown.

In round two we travelled to Gold Coast to face the Warriors, instead of Auckland. We save travel as a result. We also save travel playing Manly at Campbelltown away, instead of at Brookvale.

No one has argued we're better off than Sydney teams in travel terms. We're never better off than Sydney teams in any season, they always fare much better than us by simple virtue of the number of clubs in close geographical proximity to each other there. Why would this season be any different. Why has this even been brought up now.

Changes in travel like having to go in and out quickly, being in hubs, etc applies to all clubs. We are not the outlier there. We are not the only ones affected. Not an excuse that we ourselves can use only.

Even if we've had two extra round trips to Campbelltown, it will not outweigh the amount of travel teams like the three from Queensland have had to do in both distance and time. It cannot. It does not in any season. If anyone of you wants to do the hard math go ahead, but I'm not going to reduce myself for what should be simple logic. We've had two teams completely moved ~2000kms from their bases for months on end, yet we're getting throwaway lines like 'gee they're probably better off at the Sunshine Coast', which shows zero understanding and consideration for the myriad of implications that may stem from being away from your physical home for so long, and needing to uproot your family for an indefinite period of time. There is no way in hell we've had it more difficult than them.

If you guys want to make out that two untoward round trips to Campbelltown within a three week period, three months ago, justifies the belief that we've been so been hard done by Covid and managed to do well in that face of such incredible adversity that has mainly afflicted us only, go right ahead.

I'm going to bed, bewildered at how seemingly grown adults have needed to have this explained to them.
Last edited by afgtnk on October 10, 2020, 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Ilanraiders »

Who else is worried about this cam smith retirement this year?? Looks like the NRL will make sure he bows out a winner...
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Kryptonite »

Crusader wrote: October 10, 2020, 10:40 am
gangrenous wrote: October 9, 2020, 11:06 pm
Makaveli wrote:Revenge for '16 incoming

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This finals season is the REVENGE tour.

Sharks ‘16 avenged
Roosters ‘19 avenged
Storm ‘16 lets go!
Panthers ' 91??????????????????
If you remember, we were absolutely busted in the 91 GF, there were more injections in our dressing room than a Kings Cross shooting gallery
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Question »

Azza wrote: October 10, 2020, 6:34 pm
Question wrote: October 10, 2020, 5:39 pm Storm by a margin.
You're a wanker.
Is that supposed to be an insult?
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Seiffert82 »

Regarding this stupid travel debate, if you actually listen to the coach, the big issue has been the requirement to travel up and back from games within hours of the game, not just how many extra away games we've played.

It has been particularly brutal in managing post-game recovery when players are forced onto a long bus trip just after the game has finished. It was obviously quite challenging during that 5 week stretch when the season restarted.

Anyway, our boys have done a remarkable job this season. Credit to them.
Last edited by Seiffert82 on October 11, 2020, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by GreenMachine »

afgtnk wrote: October 10, 2020, 11:48 pm It's complicated because not one of you guys are analysing what's actually gone on here. You're buying a line that's been pushed by the club, maybe by the media themselves too, but has little to no factual basis as far as we can see. Because it's been pushed so much, it's been taken as fact without questioning its validity.

2/20 games of ours were affected by irregular travel detrimental to us, that was not consistent with the kind of travel we'd make in any given draw, in any given season. 10%. For the remaining 18 games, we would be expected to make that kind of travel in any given season. If you don't believe me, look at our draw. The period in which we could not play any games in Canberra lasted for five rounds. Two home games were scheduled in that period - these were moved to Campbelltown.

In round two we travelled to Gold Coast to face the Warriors, instead of Auckland. We save travel as a result. We also save travel playing Manly at Campbelltown away, instead of at Brookvale.

No one has argued we're better off than Sydney teams in travel terms. We're never better off than Sydney teams in any season, they always fare much better than us by simple virtue of the number of clubs in close geographical proximity to each other there. Why would this season be any different. Why has this even been brought up now.

Changes in travel like having to go in and out quickly, being in hubs, etc applies to all clubs. We are not the outlier there. We are not the only ones affected. Not an excuse that we ourselves can use only.

Even if we've had two extra round trips to Campbelltown, it will not outweigh the amount of travel teams like the three from Queensland have had to do in both distance and time. It cannot. It does not in any season. If anyone of you wants to do the hard math go ahead, but I'm not going to reduce myself for what should be simple logic. We've had two teams completely moved ~2000kms from their bases for months on end, yet we're getting throwaway lines like 'gee they're probably better off at the Sunshine Coast', which shows zero understanding and consideration for the myriad of implications that may stem from being away from your physical home for so long, and needing to uproot your family for an indefinite period of time. There is no way in hell we've had it more difficult than them.

If you guys want to make out that two untoward round trips to Campbelltown within a three week period, three months ago, justifies the belief that we've been so been hard done by Covid and managed to do well in that face of such incredible adversity that has mainly afflicted us only, go right ahead.

I'm going to bed, bewildered at how seemingly grown adults have needed to have this explained to them.
Sure, good points.
But those two trips to Campbelltown could have been the difference between making or missing the top 4.
Which puts us on a whole different finals trajectory.
Add to that our actual draw pre and post Covid, where we inherited a much more difficult road AND the fact our travel is always going to be more difficult to Sydney based teams...some of which (Penrith and Parra) received even EASIER travel conditions than their regular season versions...
It’s not a stretch to say we (and Melbourne) have drawn the rough end of the pineapple when it came to the season restart.
Far greater impact than the 10% you attributed.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Azza »

at our best we can obviously match Melbourne in spades but we haven't been as consistent as them this season hopefully that doesn't get exposed this week. No doubt they will be targeting that right edge so we have some work to do
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by mick63 »

greeneyed wrote: October 10, 2020, 10:59 pmFair dinkum.
X 2
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by -PJ- »

Ilanraiders wrote: October 11, 2020, 2:33 am Who else is worried about this cam smith retirement this year?? Looks like the NRL will make sure he bows out a winner...
How is the NRL going to ensure that ?

Is Craig Bellamy reffing the game ?
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
#emptythetank :shock:
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by mick63 »

Northern Raider wrote: October 10, 2020, 9:43 pm Back onto the upcoming game. Early market with Sportsbet has Storm at $1.50 and Raiders $2.65. I was expecting us to be a bit longer odds.
Last week early roosters 1:60 raiders 2:35
This week storm 1:50 raiders 2:45
Both at TAB

raiders drifted at every roll of the board last week and likely to this week
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Northern Raider »

mick63 wrote: October 11, 2020, 8:03 am
Northern Raider wrote: October 10, 2020, 9:43 pm Back onto the upcoming game. Early market with Sportsbet has Storm at $1.50 and Raiders $2.65. I was expecting us to be a bit longer odds.
Last week early roosters 1:60 raiders 2:35
This week storm 1:50 raiders 2:45
Both at TAB

raiders drifted at every roll of the board last week and likely to this week
We drifted out to $3.05 by start time against Roosters. A similar drift wouldn't surprise this week. Storm are in better form than Roosters and have had the week off. For Raiders there may be a bit less ammo in cartridge after a tough game then having to travel again. The serious money comes late and that's mostly going to be for Melbourne so I expect Raiders to start $3+ again.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Azza »

Damn. In that case, storm by 37.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by radicalraider »

I've said all year the nrl will gift their favourite son Cam a premiership before he retires this year. We have it all up against us on Friday and CAN STILL WIN
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Wouldn’t mind if the travel debate was banished to another thread.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by boomer »

Mickey_Raider wrote: October 11, 2020, 9:41 am Wouldn’t mind if the travel debate was banished to another thread.
Sure thing boss!
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by cat »

radicalraider wrote: October 11, 2020, 9:37 am I've said all year the nrl will gift their favourite son Cam a premiership before he retires this year. We have it all up against us on Friday and CAN STILL WIN
I would have agreed with you before but I think the love for Cam has difted
Actually think the NRL/media are over him and the whole will he or won't he retire
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Northern Raider »

cat wrote: October 11, 2020, 9:45 am
radicalraider wrote: October 11, 2020, 9:37 am I've said all year the nrl will gift their favourite son Cam a premiership before he retires this year. We have it all up against us on Friday and CAN STILL WIN
I would have agreed with you before but I think the love for Cam has difted
Actually think the NRL/media are over him and the whole will he or won't he retire
Captain's Challenge has diminished Smith's influence on refs.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by gangrenous »

Mickey_Raider wrote:Wouldn’t mind if the travel debate was banished to another thread.
The American Presidential “debate” must have confused you as to what one is.

No debate here. Only one side has an actual argument Image
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by pickles »

Seiffert82 wrote:Regarding this stupid travel debate, if you actually listen to the coach, the big issue has been the requirement to travel up and back from games within hours of the game, not just how many extra away games we've played.

It has been particularly brutal in managing post-game recovery when players are forced onto a long bus trip just after the game has finished. It was obviously quite challenging during that 5 week stretch when the season restarted.

Anyway, our boys have done a remarkable job this season. Credit to them.
This is absolutely spot on. It’s not the distance and time as much as the timing and same day travel clearly takes a toll. Ask anyone who has gone to Sydney and back in a day the difference between this and going to Sydney and back for the weekend how much difference the travel makes.

This would have had just as big an impact on the Queensland teams and storm but almost no impact on Sydney teams and it is a massive advantage.

Normally for this weeks game we would be travelling up earlier and spending some time in Brisbane preparing, probably have our captains run up there and maybe stay the night after the game as well.

This is a big difference in terms of preparation and recovery and not something you can easily adapt to, even as a professional athlete.

It will be interesting to see whether limited footy in last month helps or hinders the storm stars. With that plus our travel the first 20 minutes could be critical to the outcome again. Clearly we can go up a gear can the storm?
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Ruan Sims just did it again.

It’s papalii.

Not Papali’i.

Just stop it.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by BadnMean »

-PJ- wrote: October 11, 2020, 8:03 am
Ilanraiders wrote: October 11, 2020, 2:33 am Who else is worried about this cam smith retirement this year?? Looks like the NRL will make sure he bows out a winner...
How is the NRL going to ensure that ?

Is Craig Bellamy reffing the game ?
I don't think Bellamy will mess with the formula this late into the partnership. Cam will be reffing this game, as per usual.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Raiders666 »

Mickey_Raider wrote: October 11, 2020, 10:46 am Ruan Sims just did it again.

It’s papalii.

Not Papali’i.

Just stop it.
To be fair the kiwi commentators call him the same..Must be an islander thing?
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by cat »

Raiders666 wrote: October 11, 2020, 11:30 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: October 11, 2020, 10:46 am Ruan Sims just did it again.

It’s papalii.

Not Papali’i.

Just stop it.
To be fair the kiwi commentators call him the same..Must be an islander thing?
Ruan actually says it correctly, Papa just hasn't gone down the path of Raps correcting them

Rapana is actually said Rap- Ana
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Seiffert82 »

pickles wrote: October 11, 2020, 10:24 am
Seiffert82 wrote:Regarding this stupid travel debate, if you actually listen to the coach, the big issue has been the requirement to travel up and back from games within hours of the game, not just how many extra away games we've played.

It has been particularly brutal in managing post-game recovery when players are forced onto a long bus trip just after the game has finished. It was obviously quite challenging during that 5 week stretch when the season restarted.

Anyway, our boys have done a remarkable job this season. Credit to them.
This is absolutely spot on. It’s not the distance and time as much as the timing and same day travel clearly takes a toll. Ask anyone who has gone to Sydney and back in a day the difference between this and going to Sydney and back for the weekend how much difference the travel makes.

This would have had just as big an impact on the Queensland teams and storm but almost no impact on Sydney teams and it is a massive advantage.

Normally for this weeks game we would be travelling up earlier and spending some time in Brisbane preparing, probably have our captains run up there and maybe stay the night after the game as well.

This is a big difference in terms of preparation and recovery and not something you can easily adapt to, even as a professional athlete.

It will be interesting to see whether limited footy in last month helps or hinders the storm stars. With that plus our travel the first 20 minutes could be critical to the outcome again. Clearly we can go up a gear can the storm?
Yep, you look at our results in that 5 week away stretch when the comp restarted and we were 2-3. If the travel obligations had of continued much longer, our season could have been over.

I guess it's all well and good to make heroic assertions that the coach was just having a whinge because professional athletes should just be able to adapt to any old travel and recovery schedule on the fly.

Anyway, here we are...one game away from back to back Grand Finals! I'm not sure the Storm can go up a gear, but I do think our lads will be tired after that Roosters game. I think we will need to hit the ground running again, unlike in the Cronulla game. Posession will be critical.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by twistedbydesign »

Anyone seen anything reasonable on flights from Canberra? I'm getting around $1100 based on a Friday departure and Sunday return...
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Johno »

afgtnk wrote: October 10, 2020, 10:02 pm Lose your ego and admit when you're wrong, dude. A few of you have this problem on here.

You can't produce one thing to defend what you're saying.
dawg...dude.....LOL

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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by cat »

twistedbydesign wrote: October 11, 2020, 1:02 pm Anyone seen anything reasonable on flights from Canberra? I'm getting around $1100 based on a Friday departure and Sunday return...
Ouch!

I had a play, seems to be cheaper if you come home Monday ( flights for roughly $230 coming home but still $500 going up)


Sydney fans need to fly to Darwin, drive across , cross the border up the top and then fly down :hmmm
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by gergreg »

I'm really enjoying the love Papalii is receiving in the media.... but it's almost like these same media commentators have forgotten that it wasn't long ago that he was the best second rower in the comp.

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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by Elcaptcroker »

twistedbydesign wrote:Anyone seen anything reasonable on flights from Canberra? I'm getting around $1100 based on a Friday departure and Sunday return...
Go up acouple of days earlier


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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Teams and Previews

Post by raiderskater »

twistedbydesign wrote: October 11, 2020, 1:02 pm Anyone seen anything reasonable on flights from Canberra? I'm getting around $1100 based on a Friday departure and Sunday return...
I had a peek (not seriously) on Wednesday and it was about $700 return (Friday morning departure/Saturday morning return). The same flights when I checked yesterday had gone up to around that $1100 mark, but the only flight you can get back on Saturday is at like 8am or something.

So I went and booked a hotel room for the 25th in Sydney instead...
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