Our new style

[1992]

It has been a few seasons since we attacked with flair.
2016 was fun but not sustainable.

Love that our Canberra side has become a true tough team.
Work in progress but tough all the same. Waiting till the second 40 to feel confident is not ideal-I get it.

This toughness is ground that can be built upon. A rough and tough Canberra culture will do us more good than thrashing a bunch of teams sometimes.

[FROG]

The first half yesterday was tough to watch. Our line speed felt like a return to the furner days. It meant we had absolutely no field position but the way we defended our line and hung in there was incredible. This team knows how to win ugly, which has never been a trait of the raiders.

[pickles]

We also seem to have a tactic of working over other teams middles. We run back in behind the ruck so often that it has to be a tactic. It does seem to work in creating some space through there for quicker players in the second half of the game.

We have some big bodies and hard players to tackle so it seems that making middle defenders make a lot of tackles is part of our strategy. I wouldn’t mind seeing it blended with the occasional early shift, just to keep the opposition guessing and to generate some quick play of the balls to get some momentum.

It is clear that our game is built on defence and ultimately that is what will win the big games.

[Pete Cash]

Yep we are very much focused on running down the middle.

https://www.statsinsider.com.au/nrl/left-right

According to this we score the most tries in the NRL through the middle third. It's very clearly a tactic by stick

[gangrenous]

We have some big bodies and hard players to tackle so it seems that making middle defenders make a lot of tackles is part of our strategy. I wouldn’t mind seeing it blended with the occasional early shift, just to keep the opposition guessing and to generate some quick play of the balls to get some momentum.

Agreed. They can have it as a tactic, but they need to keep the opponents guessing more.

Raiders had 200 odd tackles to 100 odd in the first half Ricky said. Which team has been tired? Some of the top 6 teams have put us to the sword in the first half, and if we come out with purely this strategy again next week we’ll be out at the hands of the Roosters again

[Northern Raider]

We play the attrition game. Keep it tight and outlast your opponent. Very effective for stacking the W column. How effective it is against the Roosters next week then possibly Storm after that remains to be seen. We've beaten both this year so we know it can be done.

[The Green Hornet]

I don't think we've hit our ceiling yet, not by a long way. The two teams to beat this year, the Panthers and Melbourne are playing awesome footy. Next in line are the roosters, who also have some improving to do.
If we can string a full 80 mins together, we'll beat any team, I'm hoping we click for the rest of the finals.
Feels like we're holding something back, especially our first halves.

[afgtnk]

Our 'new style' isn't sustainable either. You can't get away with limited speed in your backs for too long, or having a game plan based rucking it out in a narrow channel ad nauseam, or having a fullback with no creativity.

People often mistake that being a tough, resilient side and having flair in your attack are mutually exclusive - they're not. There are teams in the competition right now that do both well, so there's no reason why we can't either. Sure, throughout the 2016 regular season we had that softness in us, but come the finals, we were every bit the tough side you've described.

There are basic fundamental principles that always need to be adhered to, but to stay at or near the top we need to be constantly evolving the way we play - no two ways about it.

[BadnMean]

Pete's stats back up the eye test, clearly a plan. You can almost see outside backs coming for their hit up about to instinctively run wider/across where they may be able to use speed but remember and angle or step back toward the ruck.

The limited speed in the backs isn't something we can fix this year. It may have marginally improved with Rapana and Semi vs Scott and Rapana. Our halves are very quick, which helps a bit- George is a good backer upper type of halfback.

Having Starling and Young hit form has really seen this "pound the middle 'til it cracks" style become more fruitful lately imo. Starling has the speed to punish a lazy marker or retreating line. Young is the type of mobile lock with the footspeed and muscle to punch through a tired tackle that some teams have but we haven't previously had (Tapine is great but would last long in a footrace between the two). You can add CHN into that mix too.

Previously we'd play the same style but just barely be able to punish teams when it started to work. Now we have a few sharp weapons to use through the middle and we've seen a significant increase in our attacking output over the last say... 6 weeks? As these guys have come online and got fit.

It can beat the Storm, who are very big in the forwards so tire just a but earlier and give us a bit more "Raiders time" in the game where the window is in our favour. Obviously everyone has to play well and many other things go right, but it does seem to trouble them. Although when we beat the storm last year, a couple of times we made a deliberate shift away from the middle grind and went side to side far more. That was when we had far superior edge personel to the Storm though.

It can beat the 2020 model Roosters, where I think we now hold a slight edge in middle forwards vs previous incarnations. Previously I thought we only maybe beat the Roosters on our edge personel. Hard way to win a final. Now I think our method can crack them, if we play at our best.

[gangrenous]

The current style has proven effective against the junk teams of the comp.

Correct me if I’m wrong but we’re 0/4 from our last 4 games against the top 4 sides? If Ricky and the team think that they can roll out that strategy next week and beat the Roosters, then I think we should plan our mad Monday costumes.

We need to go 3/3 against top four sides if we want a premiership. Ricky is going to have to bring some strategic changes to do that. If not then it’ll likely be game over at half time next week and that’s a real depressing thought.

[Pete Cash]

I tend to agree that playing down the middle is better against lower ranked sides. In fact what normally seperates top and bottom sides is consistently aiming up in defence. The way we play is constantly testing a teams resolve. Oh Papalii crashes in, oh here comes Tapine it's easy to read but takes heart to stop over and over again. Like Tapine was missed by half the sharks side in his first try. We aren't often testing teams decision making but testing their willingness to tackle especially with the way the six again rule can really put teams under a lot of possession stress

One thing I'll say I've noticed in recent weeks though is that defenses in general are struggling. In particular at protecting the halves. Flanagan was completely exposed by kikau and the roosters managed to get Creighton one on one with Luai. The storm have been able to get NAS running at little men. 50 points + have been put through the finals a game so far. The 6 again rule and the torturous nature of the comp (no byes, lots of long term injuries, travel issues) have opened up defenses

So if stick wants to hammer away with big men why not shift Tapine or Papalii a little wider in attack at times and try to isolate a guy like Flanagan. Have wighton constantly looking for opposition halves who he is a good chance of out muscling. I think a power game can work in 2020 but maybe mix it up a bit. Find the smaller men

[The Nickman]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

[gangrenous]

Yeah I think the good news is that it’s not like the team can’t win, or that the strategy is miles off.

I think it just needs more variation to work on a top 4 side. We have to take some appropriate offload risks when they arise. Move the ball laterally occasionally.

That plus reminding the players to take smart options. I don’t know how many times in the last month the Raiders have slapped at the dummy half’s hand. Nine times out of ten you’re penalised for this, and the tenth time is generally when the dummy half has clearly started to move and engage the markers. We’ve been giving up another 6 tackles and field position with virtually zero chance of reward. Ricky needs to mandate not to bloody do it.

[-PJ-]

Whatever happens..we rock...

[Finchy]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

You'd be pleased with yesterday's effort then!

[The Nickman]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

You'd be pleased with yesterday's effort then!

I actually was never worried yesterday, always knew we’d get up. The way the commentators were carrying on though was like they hadn’t watched a raiders game this year!

[Finchy]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

You'd be pleased with yesterday's effort then!

I actually was never worried yesterday, always knew we’d get up. The way the commentators were carrying on though was like they hadn’t watched a raiders game this year!

It was almost a carbon copy of our games against the Warriors/Bulldogs/Broncos. Under the pump all first half, smash them in the second.

[The Nickman]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

You'd be pleased with yesterday's effort then!

I actually was never worried yesterday, always knew we’d get up. The way the commentators were carrying on though was like they hadn’t watched a raiders game this year!

It was almost a carbon copy of our games against the Warriors/Bulldogs/Broncos. Under the pump all first half, smash them in the second.

Yep, even complete with the against the run of play try just before halftime to completely demoralise them

[Northern Raider]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

You'd be pleased with yesterday's effort then!

Classic Nickman

[-PJ-]

How about FoxLeague commentator Dan Ginnane last night. Just 3mins into the 2nd half and with Crapnulla leading 14-10 he said something like.. When do you start questioning yrself and start to panic about the scoreboard..Bwaith says" with about 10mins to go"

[-PJ-]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

I expect better from you.

[Azza]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

You'd be pleased with yesterday's effort then!

Classic Nickman

Dubby 2.0

[The Nickman]

**** hell, that’s nasty, Azz

[Seiffert82]

Yep we are very much focused on running down the middle.

https://www.statsinsider.com.au/nrl/left-right

According to this we score the most tries in the NRL through the middle third. It's very clearly a tactic by stick

These stats are really quite interesting. I know tries scored and conceded don't tell the full story, but they do support what you can see on the field.

Our left hand attack is starting to find some real form and are looking as good as they did last season. Our right hand side not so much. We are definitely focussed on attacking up the middle and we do it remarkably well with Papa, Taps, Lui and Young.

Interestingly we didn't kick a single genuine bomb against the Sharks, preferring the grubbers and chip kicks. That has been quite a change from the Wighton bombfest of last season.

I like the way our halves are combining and the developing ball playing of CNK. I also like having less of a focus on our dummy half setting the tempo of how we play. We are far less predictable and much better for it.

[pickles]

The other factor about continually turning back in behind the ruck is that it is making tacklers make multiple tackles in a row and often against big players who are hard to tackle. I don’t the science of it but I’m sure that effort on effort is more fatiguing over the game than a more spread out workload.

It seems to be a battle of attrition that has worked well and potentially uses less energy in attack that we can then use to defend.

This season fatigue is a much bigger factor with the 6 again rule and the ball in play a lot more and it seems like we have a strategy for taking advantage of this.

We don’t attack a lot with structure which probably makes sense for finals football where teams are committed enough to eat those plays up and it is the ability to take opportunities when they arise that wins games. It’s exactly what happened in the grand final last year.

Our left edge is dangerous and both our halves are individually dangerous and even more so when they combine.

I’d like to see us use Bateman as a decoy a bit more with rapana getting the ball as cotric has had minimal opportunities in attack on that edge and probably needs to come looking for the ball a bit more.

Either way this is clearly our strategy and I hope it works on Friday!

[amiafish]

Bashing through the middle works a lot better later in the game against already fatigued forwards. The mistake is trying to do it in the first twenty minutes while they're fresh. Now, I know people will say, "but you have to do the work in the first twenty to earn the right to go through them later on"...and they'd be wrong.

When you work solely in a narrow ruck corridor while the defense is fresh, two things happen;
(1) You get smashed and driven backwards by multiple tacklers...this does not tire out defenders in the least! The rest of the defensive line can take a breather 10 metres back while the tacklers are monstering the hapless runner into the ground, wrestling him onto his back, and holding him down. Next tackle, the fresh defenders rush up on the next runner and repeat the dose.
(2) You give away field position, leading to inevitable repeat sets and high pressure tackling (i.e. where a defensive error means a probable try). This is physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting. Early tries against you are a likely outcome.

The only reason this approach "works" sometimes against weaker opposition is that they don't have the discipline or skill with the ball to make us pay. They may score one or maybe two tries in the first twenty, but then their ball handling lets them down and we come back into the game. They are frustrated by our excellent goal-line defense, go too lateral too early...and we run over the top of them.

The top teams (Panthers, Storm, Roosters) do not make this error often. Typically, you give them quality ball while they're fresh, they'll burn you hard. Not only will they execute at a much higher level (leading to more tries) but they won't panic when they fail to score on our goal-line...they'll just keep piling up the repeat sets until we crack open.

Later in the game, driving through the middle with our strong runners is great. It's demoralising and relentless...they know we're going to do it, but they're helpless to stop it. Early on, it's dumb.

[moto748]

Hi guys.

Reading these comments with interest. I'm a Wigan fan, and like a lot of folk here, obviously follow the Raiders with interest, so I was cheering George on in his race to the corner at the weekend! It's not uncommon to see a few Raiders shirts in pubs here. I am pleased, but not surprised, that GW has adapted to the NRL OK. And he and Jack Wighton are starting to look like a real partnership now.

What is your view about Rapana in the centres? He just isn't one, is he?

I will be cheering you on against the Roosters, but honestly I am not optimistic. Still, I am sure you will do better than our dismal capitulation to Leeds in the Challenge Cup at the weekend.

[Seiffert82]

Hi guys.

Reading these comments with interest. I'm a Wigan fan, and like a lot of folk here, obviously follow the Raiders with interest, so I was cheering George on in his race to the corner at the weekend! It's not uncommon to see a few Raiders shirts in pubs here. I am pleased, but not surprised, that GW has adapted to the NRL OK. And he and Jack Wighton are starting to look like a real partnership now.

What is your view about Rapana in the centres? He just isn't one, is he?

I will be cheering you on against the Roosters, but honestly I am not optimistic. Still, I am sure you will do better than our dismal capitulation to Leeds in the Challenge Cup at the weekend.

Welcome to the forum moto748. George has certainly proven to be a great asset for our team. His kicking game is great and his defence has been surprisingly solid over the entire season. I think he'll have a long NRL career if he choses to stay here.

I think the majority of the board would much prefer to see Rapana on the wing. Rapa is a genuine winger, he often has trouble with his reads in defence, especially when he gets numbers thrown at him. Thankfully Cotric is a pretty solid winger, so they don't get completely destroyed out there.

[simo]

I just wish we wouldn’t always give away the first try

I expect better from you.

ive seen some unrealistic expectations on this site but this is mccrone would be the solution to our hooker rotation level stuff

[pickles]

The last time we played the Roosters at the SCG and won they really came out at us hard. They were putting 4 people in every tackle and trying to drive us back and slow down the ruck by sheer volume of people involved. It worked certainly achieved it's goal but our defence held and later in the game we were able to take advantage of their fatigue. They also made a lot of errors playing expansive footy to try to run us down.

It's hard to know what the best strategy is for this week as I think our best chance is to get a lead and make them chase the game. Their defence is too good to expect to chase down a 2 try lead in a final. Their attack is also that good that you really need to score at least 3 tries to be any chance of beating them. I'd like to see us grind hard for the first 20-30 and open up a bit at the back end of the first half to try and get some points so we can make them chase us. Our second halves have been solid so an even score at half time I think works in our favour and a lead even better.

One rule that no one seems to be exploiting at all is the 20/40 kick. If we are under the pump and struggling for field position I wouldn't mind seeing Jack have a go on an early tackle. A play like this could be a complete momentum changer but most teams seem to have forgotten it exists!

[BadnMean]

Hi guys.

Reading these comments with interest. I'm a Wigan fan, and like a lot of folk here, obviously follow the Raiders with interest, so I was cheering George on in his race to the corner at the weekend! It's not uncommon to see a few Raiders shirts in pubs here. I am pleased, but not surprised, that GW has adapted to the NRL OK. And he and Jack Wighton are starting to look like a real partnership now.

What is your view about Rapana in the centres? He just isn't one, is he?

I will be cheering you on against the Roosters, but honestly I am not optimistic. Still, I am sure you will do better than our dismal capitulation to Leeds in the Challenge Cup at the weekend.

Great to get in some more English fans. But I thought Wigan would absolutely hate us by now! Keep stealing your best players.

I think Rapana is fine with the ball in centres- powerful runner and now that the slight edge is gone from his top speed, his palm, footwork and strength are suited well enough to centre. But he's a lunatic in defence. He rushes in and bounces off too often- he'd get away with it as winger as the sideline helps round people up for a second effort after he's bumped them but in centre that leaves a gap with passing or running options either side. He needs a bit more gamesense there or a more reliable first contact. Both preferably.

That lunatic energy has always been his main strength though so I'll doubt it'll ever leave him.

I think everyone is a bit apprehensive about this Rorters game. Scars there for sure. Hurts worse losing to them. I'd love a good start.

[BadnMean]

One rule that no one seems to be exploiting at all is the 20/40 kick. If we are under the pump and struggling for field position I wouldn't mind seeing Jack have a go on an early tackle. A play like this could be a complete momentum changer but most teams seem to have forgotten it exists!

Hodgo used to keep his eyes open for it but yeah, doesn't seem to be in the mindset now.

It'd be a fair option as if Jack is kicking in space, then they can't block his chase which I'd back to turn the kick into a decent one even if it doesn't go out.

Of course Jack is also half a chance of launching it out to Potts Point in all the excitement. But that's Jack.

[Northern Raider]

One rule that no one seems to be exploiting at all is the 20/40 kick. If we are under the pump and struggling for field position I wouldn't mind seeing Jack have a go on an early tackle. A play like this could be a complete momentum changer but most teams seem to have forgotten it exists!

Hodgo used to keep his eyes open for it but yeah, doesn't seem to be in the mindset now.

It'd be a fair option as if Jack is kicking in space, then they can't block his chase which I'd back to turn the kick into a decent one even if it doesn't go out.

Of course Jack is also half a chance of launching it out to Potts Point in all the excitement. But that's Jack.

Nobody is even attempting a 20/40 (for any team). To get one you would need to kick on an early tackle. With the 6 again rule teams prefer to keep ball in hand and hope for a set restart. Too much risk with a 20/40 if you miss.

[pickles]

One rule that no one seems to be exploiting at all is the 20/40 kick. If we are under the pump and struggling for field position I wouldn't mind seeing Jack have a go on an early tackle. A play like this could be a complete momentum changer but most teams seem to have forgotten it exists!

Hodgo used to keep his eyes open for it but yeah, doesn't seem to be in the mindset now.

It'd be a fair option as if Jack is kicking in space, then they can't block his chase which I'd back to turn the kick into a decent one even if it doesn't go out.

Of course Jack is also half a chance of launching it out to Potts Point in all the excitement. But that's Jack.

Nobody is even attempting a 20/40 (for any team). To get one you would need to kick on an early tackle. With the 6 again rule teams prefer to keep ball in hand and hope for a set restart. Too much risk with a 20/40 if you miss.

It does seem like the set restarts are a preferred approach to getting up the field. If you did want to try it you would need to make sure that your outside backs knew it was on and chased it hard. On an early tackle if the fullback was playing in the line and wingers up it could result in getting the ball back if it doesn't go out.

The more I think about it the more you would need to be chasing points to attempt it.

[Seiffert82]

Has a single 20/40 been kicked this season?

When is t was introduced I thought it was the most unnecessary rule change in the NRL. It's really only there to bail out teams in poor field position chasing points at the end of a game. They should get rid of it.