Full strength forward pack

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Canberra Milk
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Full strength forward pack

Post by Canberra Milk »

What is our full-strength forward pack going into finals?

I have:

8. Papalii
9. Havili
10. Lui
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Young
16. Horsburgh
17. Soliola

Incredibly hard to leave Guler, Sutton and CHN out, but the experience, energy and reliability of Soliola is a must in the finals imo. Horsburgh is rep quality, offers offloads and has proven himself against some big packs like the Storm. Young is undropppable on current form.

You could make an argument for Lui missing out but he's the master stripper and so reliable in defence, and has a good combo with Papalii and Havili

Could also make an argument that it's too late to bring Horsburgh/Soliola/Guler back and better to rely on the guys with match fitness

What a pack we have, honestly. And next year Ryan James
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by afgtnk »

Aren't Horsburgh and Guler ruled out?

We can't get away without a back/utility/edge on the bench, so I think CHN retains a spot. Three middles is one too many, especially since both CHN and Havili can do minutes there.

If we get deeper into the finals I can see Stick favouring Soliola's experience and presence over either Lui or Young, despite the lack of match fitness. If we play a grand final tomorrow and Sia is fit, I'm picking him 99 times out of 100.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by bonehead »

no chance Hors can come in off a lisfranc with zero game time into semis.

Sia vs Sutton vs Lui is the only real discussion

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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Botman »

afgtnk wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:06 pm Aren't Horsburgh and Guler ruled out?
I thought that was the case...
Assuming it is...

8. Papalii
9. Havili
10. Soliola
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Young
16. CHN
17. Sutton
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by afgtnk »

bonehead wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:10 pm no chance Hors can come in off a lisfranc with zero game time into semis.

Sia vs Sutton vs Lui is the only real discussion

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Sutton's better than all three of them IMO (that's including Young). Gets the job done almost every game making good metres and a dint in the opposition line, and takes a high defensive load.

Exactly the guy you need coming off the bench when the pressure is on. He should've been on that bench in the grand final over Lui.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by afgtnk »

Botman wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:14 pm
afgtnk wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:06 pm Aren't Horsburgh and Guler ruled out?
I thought that was the case...
Assuming it is...

8. Papalii
9. Havili
10. Soliola
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Young
16. CHN
17. Sutton

That's what I'd be going with, however I think Stick has inordinate amounts of love for Lui. I can see him getting the nod ahead of Young.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by BadnMean »

An unfit Hors doesn't get a look in at the finals team, even if his injury was ok.

8. Papalii
9. Havili
10. Lui
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Young
16. CHN
17. Sutton

By all means give Sia some minutes to get some miles into him but he's been out for most of the season. In a pinch, Sia would come in for Sutton but I'd rather run with fit, hardened players who have been doing the job. Sia is injury cover.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Botman »

afgtnk wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:18 pm That's what I'd be going with, however I think Stick has inordinate amounts of love for Lui. I can see him getting the nod ahead of Young.
I agree that Stuart will try very hard and probably find a place for Lui in the 17.
Just guessing here but my bet would be that I dont think it would be Young making way, i think Stuart is heavily invested in him... I'd say Sutton would be most likely, followed by CHN
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by afgtnk »

It depends what Stuart wants.

If he wants a metre eater and a guy that can take it to the opposition line, it should be Sutton. He has been very consistent off the bench this season keeping the levels up after the starting middles go off.

If he wants a guy who is a bit more nimble, with better footwork at the line and an offload, but less metres, it should be Young. He has improved a lot in the last month.

Personally going into a final, I take Sutton everyday of the week, and that's not taking into consideration his added experience. Young's on an upward curve, but I don't think he should be pegged above Sutton here in do or die scenarios. Those metres are critical for us.

It's between him and Lui for me here - personally I take Young, considering what happened to Lui under high pressure last season.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Horace Dove-Edwin »

BadnMean wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:21 pm An unfit Hors doesn't get a look in at the finals team, even if his injury was ok.

8. Papalii
9. Havili
10. Lui
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Young
16. CHN
17. Sutton

By all means give Sia some minutes to get some miles into him but he's been out for most of the season. In a pinch, Sia would come in for Sutton but I'd rather run with fit, hardened players who have been doing the job. Sia is injury cover.
I agree.
With no match fitness I don't think he offers more than the bench, which is fit, you have listed.
In saying that, should we get an injury or suspension it'd be great to have Sia there.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by simo »

Young is miles ahead of chn in our pecking order. Any suggestion of dropping him is well off the mark
Dont delete this GE
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Seiffert82 »

I suspect nobody will agree, but if you want to be fair dinkum about this discussion you have to ask if CHN or Young should be ahead of John Bateman in our starting forward pack.

The bloke gives away more penalties than Fenno ever did, and while he is averaging around 100 running metres a game, he has made the most of those against the bottom 4 teams in the comp.

He doesn't look 100% fit and the players outside him are looking almost completely ineffective. He simply hasn't been great for our cohesion in attack IMO.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by casta66 »

Seiffert82 wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:48 pm I suspect nobody will agree, but if you want to be fair dinkum about this discussion you have to ask if CHN or Young should be ahead of John Bateman in our starting forward pack.

The bloke gives away more penalties than Fenno ever did, and while he is averaging around 100 running metres a game, he has made the most of those against the bottom 4 teams in the comp.

He doesn't look 100% fit and the players outside him are looking almost completely ineffective. He simply hasn't been great for our cohesion in attack IMO.
Im tending to agree with this. "X-factor" for sure. But Young putting in more energy and defensive effort at the moment.

What a forward pack we have produced leading into 2021.

Maybe one or 2 can do spring training over the break and fill the massive gaps in our backline :D
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Wiki Special »

8. Papalii
9. Havili
10. Sutton
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Soliola
16. Young
17. CHN

That would be my pack for the Finals. I reckon Lui will be in the actual 17 though. Instead of Sutton.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by The Nickman »

Since he came back from being “rested” Lui has gone to that next level, he’s a fantastic all-round player now.

You blokes dropping him are all having bubble baths, surely.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Canberra Milk »

Ok my thread a little redundant if Horsburgh and Guler out, I assumed they were back based on nothing at all

Still some questions on Sutton/Lui etc though.
The bloke gives away more penalties than Fenno ever did, and while he is averaging around 100 running metres a game, he has made the most of those against the bottom 4 teams in the comp.
Bateman isn't there for metremaking, even if hasn't quite clicked yet we all know what he can do. Just about first picked after Papa
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by zim »

If Sia was ready to go as Stick was saying then he really should have been getting minutes before now.
For me it's kinda hard to put trust in a guy in the finals that has had zero game time.
Stick is probably the opposite. He's so confident in Sia that he's been running the other guys out to get a feel for who to pick.

8. Papalii
10. Sutton
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

15. Young
16. Soliola
17. CHN

Lui misses out in my side. CHN hasn't been as good in defence but he provides that point of difference in attack that might get us points against the better sides.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Raiders_Pat »

If it were earlier in the season I would have picked Sutton or Lui to be the odd man out. But I'm not so sure about that now... I think I side with those who are of the view that we'd be better with these guys who are fit and in-form rather than Soliola who is coming back after a long time off the park.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by irvste »

Smelly is second after papa then taps on current form.. Ricky did go to one hooker last year might happen again depending on opposition

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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: September 21, 2020, 12:48 pm I suspect nobody will agree, but if you want to be fair dinkum about this discussion you have to ask if CHN or Young should be ahead of John Bateman in our starting forward pack.
The answer is no, JB is one of the best players in world and one of few players capable of creating points.
Consider it asked and answered.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Botman »

The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 1:33 pm Since he came back from being “rested” Lui has gone to that next level, he’s a fantastic all-round player now.

You blokes dropping him are all having bubble baths, surely.
So who misses out then?
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by afgtnk »

Yeah drop John Bateman. That'll give us a better chance in big games.

**** me
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Azza »

It's a great headache to have. I can't drop Lui, he has been great. No one deserves to be dropped obviously, for me the last forward spot is between Sutton and Soliola.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:09 pm
The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 1:33 pm Since he came back from being “rested” Lui has gone to that next level, he’s a fantastic all-round player now.

You blokes dropping him are all having bubble baths, surely.
So who misses out then?
Sutton.

And it's not even a comparison between the two, not even close.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Wiki Special »

The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:18 pm
Botman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:09 pm
The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 1:33 pm Since he came back from being “rested” Lui has gone to that next level, he’s a fantastic all-round player now.

You blokes dropping him are all having bubble baths, surely.
So who misses out then?
Sutton.

And it's not even a comparison between the two, not even close.
Both have been good this year so I don't agree it isn't close.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by The Nickman »

Wiki Special wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:30 pm
The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:18 pm
Botman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:09 pm
The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 1:33 pm Since he came back from being “rested” Lui has gone to that next level, he’s a fantastic all-round player now.

You blokes dropping him are all having bubble baths, surely.
So who misses out then?
Sutton.

And it's not even a comparison between the two, not even close.
Both have been good this year so I don't agree it isn't close.
Well I don't agree that you don't agree, so you do agree.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by afgtnk »

Absolute bubble baths all-round if you want to drop Sutton. Long, hot, finger-wrinkling bubble baths. Dude makes the third most metres on average behind Papa and Taps, and the most tackles out of all our middles.

Replace him with smaller bodies and motors like Young or Lui who struggle to push 80 a game and watch our game suffer. He's underappreciated by you ***** just like Taps is and our third best middle right now IMO.
Last edited by afgtnk on September 21, 2020, 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Botman »

The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:18 pm
Botman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:09 pm
The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 1:33 pm Since he came back from being “rested” Lui has gone to that next level, he’s a fantastic all-round player now.

You blokes dropping him are all having bubble baths, surely.
So who misses out then?
Sutton.

And it's not even a comparison between the two, not even close.
"Not even close" :lol: :lol:

Wait... ****, fairgoitall. Well played, friend
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by The Nickman »

afgtnk wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:37 pm Absolute bubble baths all-round if you want to drop Sutton. Long, hot, finger-wrinkling bubble baths. Dude makes the third most metres on average behind Papa and Taps, and the most tackles out of all our middles.

Replace him with smaller bodies and motors like Young or Lui who struggle to push 80 a game and watch our game suffer. He's underappreciated by you **** just like Taps is and our third best middle right now IMO.
tarps is amazing,m how underappreciates Tarps?

You're a strange, odd, weird little man at times, aagfsdhgbgfdrbhrytejhetyjerthrtherhfdyghghjfhjjk,.yuilk745676u778iuo;/uo;/
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by afgtnk »

The Nickman wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:38 pm
afgtnk wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:37 pm Absolute bubble baths all-round if you want to drop Sutton. Long, hot, finger-wrinkling bubble baths. Dude makes the third most metres on average behind Papa and Taps, and the most tackles out of all our middles.

Replace him with smaller bodies and motors like Young or Lui who struggle to push 80 a game and watch our game suffer. He's underappreciated by you **** just like Taps is and our third best middle right now IMO.
tarps is amazing,m how underappreciates Tarps?

You're a strange, odd, weird little man at times, aagfsdhgbgfdrbhrytejhetyjerthrtherhfdyghghjfhjjk,.yuilk745676u778iuo;/uo;/
You don't, but plenty clearly do.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Green Blogger »

Sutton has been huge this year. For me, if Sia was fit I would bring him in for CHN. I worry about CHN's presence in the defensive line. I think he has been caught out a few times since he started with us - he was again yesterday and it cost a try. I think he needs a full pre-season to get comfortable in the defensive structure and will be much better next year.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Botman »

Wiki Special wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:30 pm
Both have been good this year so I don't agree it isn't close.
Sutton: 46 minutes, 12 runs, 102 metres, 29 tackles, 1 mistackle, 91% TE, 6 errors, 7 penalties, 1 TC, 5 LBC
Lui: 38 minutes, 10 runs, 85 metres, 21 tackles, 1 mistackle, 91% TE, 6 errors, 7 penalties, 3 TC, 5 LBC
*According to Fox Sports Stat Lab

Eye test supports the stats to say these are two close... ol Nickman has either roped us into a tremendous dubby trap, or he's surely having a bubble bath

The actual answer on who should miss out is probably Sia, as far as players go, give how little football he's played and that he's probably not better than any of these guys in a vacuum... the trouble is i dont think anyone feels comfortable leaving him out given all the intangibles he brings to the table
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by BJ »

Sutton has Lui covered for run meters pre and post contact. I love Sutton’s no holds barred attack and defensive clout.

But Lui has him covered for handling, penalties conceded, passing before the line, try saves, offloads and strips.

But for me it’s Lui’s defence on the line and how he stops offloads by hugging the attacker and ball that are amongst the best in the competition on those two defensive facets. I can’t think of many try causes by Dunamis.

I can’t believe how many Raiders fans don’t see the little 1 percenters that Lui does without the ball.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by Botman »

BJ wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:51 pm I can’t think of many try causes by Dunamis.
He's got 3 according to Fox, Sutton has 1.
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Re: Full strength forward pack

Post by The Nickman »

BJ wrote: September 21, 2020, 2:51 pm Sutton has Lui covered for run meters pre and post contact. I love Sutton’s no holds barred attack and defensive clout.

But Lui has him covered for handling, penalties conceded, passing before the line, try saves, offloads and strips.

But for me it’s Lui’s defence on the line and how he stops offloads by hugging the attacker and ball that are amongst the best in the competition on those two defensive facets. I can’t think of many try causes by Dunamis.

I can’t believe how many Raiders fans don’t see the little 1 percenters that Lui does without the ball.
Yeah, in that ridiculous period while Croker was off the field and the team completely was losing their minds I said we needed Lui's cool head back on the field to sure up the defensive line and calm everybody down.

He brings so many intangibles to the team that he'd be now one of the first picked each and every week, and it's got nothing to do with some bizarre love affair our fans seem to think the coach has with him.

He gets picked because he's good, it's that simple.
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