Which is who? Everyone keeps mentioning our anonymous "attacking coach" but no one seems to know who it is.
Ideas for more creativity
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- Sam Backo
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
It's Ricky.
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- Sam Backo
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Neither Jack or George are the best talkers, the way you need to handle that as a coach is to give the team some expected plays. With neither, the attack regularly looks like it doesn't know what to do and reverts to wasteful dummy half plays, or forwards giving poor passes to each other. I suspect a lot of this is mental fatigue from defending poor territory, because oppositions have figured out that Canberra are unwilling to take any chances off their line, and can be easily predicted and swarmed.
Technically the side has it well within them to put on slick plays to the left edge (with Wighton on the wrap around rather than CNK), and they play well with second phase through the middle. They're the areas of strength in attack that aren't just individual brilliance in running, along with Williams being dangerous with his kicks from close. Issue is they're rarely actually being pulled out of the bag, and that's for the coach to figure out why.
I agree with calls to have Bateman attack through the middle, he's too inclined to cut in to ever let the right hand side breath properly, bringing in a straight runner could help out a lot. I'd still want him playing the 80 and defending on the right though. Let CHN/Young defend the middle where there's more cover and less lateral movement needed.
I also agree with shifting Williams' and CNKs role somewhat. After seeing Williams roam a bit more, I think he's proven himself capable. CNK should therefore stay more right-sided in general, hopfully sticking right of Williams for inside balls/sweeps, and sniffing around an offloading right forward, be it Bateman or CHN. Wighton can be the second pivot for left sweeps, or a direct running half for tighter plays.
The final problem is getting out of the 20m. I think on this one we need to shake the reputation of being willing to send our backs into a wall for 4 plays in a row for no yardage - if it takes some lower % shifts early on just to put the opposition on notice, then that will be worth it.
Technically the side has it well within them to put on slick plays to the left edge (with Wighton on the wrap around rather than CNK), and they play well with second phase through the middle. They're the areas of strength in attack that aren't just individual brilliance in running, along with Williams being dangerous with his kicks from close. Issue is they're rarely actually being pulled out of the bag, and that's for the coach to figure out why.
I agree with calls to have Bateman attack through the middle, he's too inclined to cut in to ever let the right hand side breath properly, bringing in a straight runner could help out a lot. I'd still want him playing the 80 and defending on the right though. Let CHN/Young defend the middle where there's more cover and less lateral movement needed.
I also agree with shifting Williams' and CNKs role somewhat. After seeing Williams roam a bit more, I think he's proven himself capable. CNK should therefore stay more right-sided in general, hopfully sticking right of Williams for inside balls/sweeps, and sniffing around an offloading right forward, be it Bateman or CHN. Wighton can be the second pivot for left sweeps, or a direct running half for tighter plays.
The final problem is getting out of the 20m. I think on this one we need to shake the reputation of being willing to send our backs into a wall for 4 plays in a row for no yardage - if it takes some lower % shifts early on just to put the opposition on notice, then that will be worth it.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
2019 average points against = 15.58Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 10:15 pm Our defence is not even close to the standard it was at last year.. not even close! Last year I just had this sheer confidence that we could keep any team at bay.. that we could repel set after set on our line regardless of the opposition. I just KNEW that the opposition weren't going to score when they were on our line and 95% of the time, we didn't crack. Can't say I have that same feeling or confidence this year.
2020 average points against = 15.71
Seems reasonably close.
Last year we had 9 games where the opposition scored 20 or more. So far this season there has been 6. I think you have selective memory.
- Seiffert82
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
It's happening way too often. More often than not he has been basically funnelling 3 defenders in Croker's direction.Matt wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 8:27 pm Im not sure bringing up our lack of ability to score, after playing the best D in the comp is a great place to start. But I don't think our attack has been that bad of late.
GWills ability to get repeat sets is a God send. We would have give Papas right foot for that in previous years. Would be better if our outside backs were also looking for the kick in behind once and a while though.
I liked the Wighton attacking at centre move we shaped up for twice on the wkend. It worked once for about 30-40m.
I do think Jack has to learn to run straighter. His natural drift to the left does mean he runs his support players out of room. Its a subconscious/ natural thing but he has to find a way to play more direct.
I also think, we look at our most dangerous from 2nd phase. We have lots of great ball runners with good footwork. Wouldnt mind us focusing on that a bit more.
Re: Ideas for more creativity
Bob TurningtonGroundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 10:30 pmWhich is who? Everyone keeps mentioning our anonymous "attacking coach" but no one seems to know who it is.
But really Mick Crowley
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- Sam Backo
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
I'm not talking about points against, I'm talking about our determination and ability to consistently and repeatedly turn teams away. I think you're the one that has selective memory champ, either that or your watching a different team to the rest of us. Dead set how can you not notice the difference Our defence has been as soft as butter for the majority of the year. I'm not talking about the points conceded so much, it's the way we have conceded them. That is the difference.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:06 am2019 average points against = 15.58Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 10:15 pm Our defence is not even close to the standard it was at last year.. not even close! Last year I just had this sheer confidence that we could keep any team at bay.. that we could repel set after set on our line regardless of the opposition. I just KNEW that the opposition weren't going to score when they were on our line and 95% of the time, we didn't crack. Can't say I have that same feeling or confidence this year.
2020 average points against = 15.71
Seems reasonably close.
Last year we had 9 games where the opposition scored 20 or more. So far this season there has been 6. I think you have selective memory.
- Seiffert82
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Last year we repeatedly turned poor teams away on our line and also stepped up our intensity at finals time. We regularly conceded a ton of yards in the middle of the field, hence the reason why we had to defend our line so often.Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 8:23 amI'm not talking about points against, I'm talking about our determination and ability to consistently and repeatedly turn teams away. I think you're the one that has selective memory champ, either that or your watching a different team to the rest of us. Dead set how can you not notice the difference Our defence has been as soft as butter for the majority of the year. I'm not talking about the points conceded so much, it's the way we have conceded them. That is the difference.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:06 am2019 average points against = 15.58Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 10:15 pm Our defence is not even close to the standard it was at last year.. not even close! Last year I just had this sheer confidence that we could keep any team at bay.. that we could repel set after set on our line regardless of the opposition. I just KNEW that the opposition weren't going to score when they were on our line and 95% of the time, we didn't crack. Can't say I have that same feeling or confidence this year.
2020 average points against = 15.71
Seems reasonably close.
Last year we had 9 games where the opposition scored 20 or more. So far this season there has been 6. I think you have selective memory.
This season we have been conceding much less ground for large parts of the game and have therefore not been required to defend our line for repeated sets of 6. Most of the tries we concede in that zone are the result of kicks.
The end result is practically the same. Our defence on the edges has improved as the season has gone on.
You made a ridiculous point about our defence not being at the same standard as last season. You are wrong. What you saw last year was great scramble and a great determination at the goal line which was a necessary response to a significantly poorer defensive effort upfield.
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- Sam Backo
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
That's not even remotely close to being true. For starters we also repeatedly turned away the TOP TEAMS something we have failed to do repeatedly this year. We have not been conceding less ground this year either teams have been camped on our line on thousands of occasions this year and we fold like butter. I'm also not sure what planet you are from if you think our edge defence has improved. You're the one making ridiculous points champion. Your eyes must be painted on, or glued on or something!Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 11:12 amLast year we repeatedly turned poor teams away on our line and also stepped up our intensity at finals time. We regularly conceded a ton of yards in the middle of the field, hence the reason why we had to defend our line so often.Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 8:23 amI'm not talking about points against, I'm talking about our determination and ability to consistently and repeatedly turn teams away. I think you're the one that has selective memory champ, either that or your watching a different team to the rest of us. Dead set how can you not notice the difference Our defence has been as soft as butter for the majority of the year. I'm not talking about the points conceded so much, it's the way we have conceded them. That is the difference.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:06 am2019 average points against = 15.58Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 10:15 pm Our defence is not even close to the standard it was at last year.. not even close! Last year I just had this sheer confidence that we could keep any team at bay.. that we could repel set after set on our line regardless of the opposition. I just KNEW that the opposition weren't going to score when they were on our line and 95% of the time, we didn't crack. Can't say I have that same feeling or confidence this year.
2020 average points against = 15.71
Seems reasonably close.
Last year we had 9 games where the opposition scored 20 or more. So far this season there has been 6. I think you have selective memory.
This season we have been conceding much less ground for large parts of the game and have therefore not been required to defend our line for repeated sets of 6. Most of the tries we concede in that zone are the result of kicks.
The end result is practically the same. Our defence on the edges has improved as the season has gone on.
You made a ridiculous point about our defence not being at the same standard as last season. You are wrong. What you saw last year was great scramble and a great determination at the goal line which was a necessary response to a significantly poorer defensive effort upfield.
Re: Ideas for more creativity
I agree with GMGT, our defence hasn't been quite as good this year IMO. Stats are one thing IMO, however also just watching from gut feel I do think we have dropped away a tad. That said, our first half defence on the weekend was about as good as it's been in awhile.
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- Tom Learoyd-Lahrs
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
We've done better against the top 6 sides this year than we did in the regular season last year, too. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say we're performing similarly to last year overall. Penrith's massive surge from also-rans to front runners has pushed us (and others) down the table. If that hadn't happened, maybe we wouldn't be discussing this stuff as much...
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- David Furner
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Not only that, but given we are 6 rounds shorter than last year, a ‘winning period’ like Parra had is worth more.
Add 6 rounds on the end of this year and Parra wouldn’t hold onto a top 4 spot, we would likely finish in 4th. Like last year.
Add 6 rounds on the end of this year and Parra wouldn’t hold onto a top 4 spot, we would likely finish in 4th. Like last year.
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- Sam Backo
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
100%. If we play and defend like that first half for the rest of the year we go a damn long way towards winning the whole thing. We stuck with the roosters all the way through that half.Azza wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 1:42 pm I agree with GMGT, our defence hasn't been quite as good this year IMO. Stats are one thing IMO, however also just watching from gut feel I do think we have dropped away a tad. That said, our first half defence on the weekend was about as good as it's been in awhile.
- Seiffert82
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
We fold like butter, yet concede the same number of points.Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:11 pmThat's not even remotely close to being true. For starters we also repeatedly turned away the TOP TEAMS something we have failed to do repeatedly this year. We have not been conceding less ground this year either teams have been camped on our line on thousands of occasions this year and we fold like butter. I'm also not sure what planet you are from if you think our edge defence has improved. You're the one making ridiculous points champion. Your eyes must be painted on, or glued on or something!Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 11:12 amLast year we repeatedly turned poor teams away on our line and also stepped up our intensity at finals time. We regularly conceded a ton of yards in the middle of the field, hence the reason why we had to defend our line so often.Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 8:23 amI'm not talking about points against, I'm talking about our determination and ability to consistently and repeatedly turn teams away. I think you're the one that has selective memory champ, either that or your watching a different team to the rest of us. Dead set how can you not notice the difference Our defence has been as soft as butter for the majority of the year. I'm not talking about the points conceded so much, it's the way we have conceded them. That is the difference.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:06 am2019 average points against = 15.58Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 10:15 pm Our defence is not even close to the standard it was at last year.. not even close! Last year I just had this sheer confidence that we could keep any team at bay.. that we could repel set after set on our line regardless of the opposition. I just KNEW that the opposition weren't going to score when they were on our line and 95% of the time, we didn't crack. Can't say I have that same feeling or confidence this year.
2020 average points against = 15.71
Seems reasonably close.
Last year we had 9 games where the opposition scored 20 or more. So far this season there has been 6. I think you have selective memory.
This season we have been conceding much less ground for large parts of the game and have therefore not been required to defend our line for repeated sets of 6. Most of the tries we concede in that zone are the result of kicks.
The end result is practically the same. Our defence on the edges has improved as the season has gone on.
You made a ridiculous point about our defence not being at the same standard as last season. You are wrong. What you saw last year was great scramble and a great determination at the goal line which was a necessary response to a significantly poorer defensive effort upfield.
OK.
I don't think you have a particularly sophisticated understanding of how an entire defensive system works.
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- Sam Backo
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
you clearly don't if you think our defence has been as good as last year. You're the one literally judging defence off nothing but the "points against" number. Go figure.... I think you need to learn the definition of sophisticated, champ.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 4:05 pmWe fold like butter, yet concede the same number of points.Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:11 pmThat's not even remotely close to being true. For starters we also repeatedly turned away the TOP TEAMS something we have failed to do repeatedly this year. We have not been conceding less ground this year either teams have been camped on our line on thousands of occasions this year and we fold like butter. I'm also not sure what planet you are from if you think our edge defence has improved. You're the one making ridiculous points champion. Your eyes must be painted on, or glued on or something!Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 11:12 amLast year we repeatedly turned poor teams away on our line and also stepped up our intensity at finals time. We regularly conceded a ton of yards in the middle of the field, hence the reason why we had to defend our line so often.Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 8:23 amI'm not talking about points against, I'm talking about our determination and ability to consistently and repeatedly turn teams away. I think you're the one that has selective memory champ, either that or your watching a different team to the rest of us. Dead set how can you not notice the difference Our defence has been as soft as butter for the majority of the year. I'm not talking about the points conceded so much, it's the way we have conceded them. That is the difference.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:06 am
2019 average points against = 15.58
2020 average points against = 15.71
Seems reasonably close.
Last year we had 9 games where the opposition scored 20 or more. So far this season there has been 6. I think you have selective memory.
This season we have been conceding much less ground for large parts of the game and have therefore not been required to defend our line for repeated sets of 6. Most of the tries we concede in that zone are the result of kicks.
The end result is practically the same. Our defence on the edges has improved as the season has gone on.
You made a ridiculous point about our defence not being at the same standard as last season. You are wrong. What you saw last year was great scramble and a great determination at the goal line which was a necessary response to a significantly poorer defensive effort upfield.
OK.
I don't think you have a particularly sophisticated understanding of how an entire defensive system works.
- FuiFui BradBrad
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Does anyone else see value in signing James Wan to the coaching staff?
He spent some time in Canberra, and probably could be enticed back in some capacity. Could bring the creativity we’re looking for?
At a pinch, we might be able to lure John Foulcher
He spent some time in Canberra, and probably could be enticed back in some capacity. Could bring the creativity we’re looking for?
At a pinch, we might be able to lure John Foulcher
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Who in Jesus **** Kentucky carnation is "James Wan" ??Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 6:27 pm Does anyone else see value in signing James Wan to the coaching staff?
He spent some time in Canberra, and probably could be enticed back in some capacity. Could bring the creativity we’re looking for?
At a pinch, we might be able to lure John Foulcher
Next question...
Who in Jesus **** Kentucky carnation is "John Foulcher"??
Re: Ideas for more creativity
The real question is: “has anyone seen Willie’s baseball?”
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
...Get outGroundskeeer Willie wrote:Who in Jesus **** Kentucky carnation is "James Wan" ??Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 6:27 pm Does anyone else see value in signing James Wan to the coaching staff?
He spent some time in Canberra, and probably could be enticed back in some capacity. Could bring the creativity we’re looking for?
At a pinch, we might be able to lure John Foulcher
Next question...
Who in Jesus **** Kentucky carnation is "John Foulcher"??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
Nickman's love of NSW
Nickman's love of NSW
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- NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
Re: Ideas for more creativity
With all this confrontational posting and “champ” references, is Groundskeeper Willie a reincarnation of that GMGT guy that disappeared not long ago?
Ata Mariota’s #1 fan. Bless his cotton socks.
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- Jason Croker
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
We really need to improve our defence against kicks. We cannot remain passive and not contest the high ball, hoping the opposition drop it. Teams will be targeting us in the finals and now. Even grubbers - Brisbane, Penrith and Titans recently scored against us. We cannot say we defended well because the other team scored tries off kicks. It's one weakness of our team and the games will be close so we don't want to gift points.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Ha, so it is! I never realised. What exactly is a Groundskeeer anyway?
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
What's a Groundskeeer?? Well, it's not quite a ground, and it's not quite a skeeer but, man...Finchy wrote: ↑September 9, 2020, 12:19 pmHa, so it is! I never realised. What exactly is a Groundskeeer anyway?
*laughs*
So, to answer your question, I don't know.
Re: Ideas for more creativity
I don't think it's that easy to compare defenses from last year to this year especially as far as yardage conceded because of the 6 again rule
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
The brightest candles burn the quickest. I think this stint was in record time. Needs to curve his swerve a little next time. Build up to his champs.
Re: Ideas for more creativity
The only thing that is soft as butter is your ego after getting some solid pushback against your peanut of an opinion.Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 8:23 amI'm not talking about points against, I'm talking about our determination and ability to consistently and repeatedly turn teams away. I think you're the one that has selective memory champ, either that or your watching a different team to the rest of us. Dead set how can you not notice the difference Our defence has been as soft as butter for the majority of the year. I'm not talking about the points conceded so much, it's the way we have conceded them. That is the difference.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 8, 2020, 12:06 am2019 average points against = 15.58Groundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 10:15 pm Our defence is not even close to the standard it was at last year.. not even close! Last year I just had this sheer confidence that we could keep any team at bay.. that we could repel set after set on our line regardless of the opposition. I just KNEW that the opposition weren't going to score when they were on our line and 95% of the time, we didn't crack. Can't say I have that same feeling or confidence this year.
2020 average points against = 15.71
Seems reasonably close.
Last year we had 9 games where the opposition scored 20 or more. So far this season there has been 6. I think you have selective memory.
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
This place is great for a laughGroundskeeer Willie wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 12:36 pmOh god. Dead **** set. Wighton to lock????? That idea was thrown out the window 5 or 6 years ago. But hey, let's move one of the best 5/8s in the comp to lock when we have a fully international back row which is probably the best back row in the comp. Jesus **** Christ.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑September 7, 2020, 12:21 pm I like the idea of Wighton at lock. In our current setup. I'm not sure if it would work with Hodgson back in the lineup...too many chefs and all that.
That left hand side needs a better ball playing half to be effective. I understand the frustration with CNK not playing that role, but my preference would be to have Williams play a lot more on both sides of the ruck.
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Fascinating talk on the Matty Johns Podcast this week about halves combinations, and the evolution of attack in general since the 80s.
So interesting how Matty and Joey used to have signals for each other on what plays to use and even on-the-fly, to communicate if a player had say come out of the defensive line.
It's pretty clear that it's a complex art, getting a halves combination to fire. There are so many variables and nuances. Some of them are out of one's control, like who they developed under and who they grew up playing alongside. A coach can help it develop though. They joked about how they didn't know what Warren Ryan was talking about when he coached, but they were able to ascertain it from the other guys on the staff.
Matty thinks the most important thing is that the team has a goal, everyone in the team knows what that goal is and in turn can play their part in it.
Applying it to the Raiders, it's clear we don't have great combinations. So in terms of the thread topic for more creativity, well we need to develop those combinations. I'm not sure if it's tactical so much as players doing the hard work of talking to each other throughout the week, coming up with ideas and plays with each other, under the guidance of an attacking coach who can give them a direction. It's not easy, otherwise every team would just do it
So interesting how Matty and Joey used to have signals for each other on what plays to use and even on-the-fly, to communicate if a player had say come out of the defensive line.
It's pretty clear that it's a complex art, getting a halves combination to fire. There are so many variables and nuances. Some of them are out of one's control, like who they developed under and who they grew up playing alongside. A coach can help it develop though. They joked about how they didn't know what Warren Ryan was talking about when he coached, but they were able to ascertain it from the other guys on the staff.
Matty thinks the most important thing is that the team has a goal, everyone in the team knows what that goal is and in turn can play their part in it.
Applying it to the Raiders, it's clear we don't have great combinations. So in terms of the thread topic for more creativity, well we need to develop those combinations. I'm not sure if it's tactical so much as players doing the hard work of talking to each other throughout the week, coming up with ideas and plays with each other, under the guidance of an attacking coach who can give them a direction. It's not easy, otherwise every team would just do it
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
Recruit the Walker brothers as attacking coaches
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Re: Ideas for more creativity
I like.
Re: Ideas for more creativity
It would make it easier on ourselves.