Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

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BadnMean
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by BadnMean »

zim wrote: September 13, 2020, 10:52 pm

I think we'd get more from CNK if he was hanging off Wighton's right shoulder and George's left. Even if he just creates doubt or he provides an option for someone like Bateman cutting back in.

How it looks at the moment is they've trained for something that is just not getting used.
Maybe it'll see some use in the finals as the usual go left is defended more effectively.
This part definitely.

George always looks like he's just begging for a straight runner as he drifts across- CNK looming up for an inside short ball would fit the bill. Then the defender has to stick with CNK + Bateman will likely be hitting that angle back in that direction too so George has two short ball options then, or that should have made room for Rapa + Cotric to be 2 on 2 at worst out there And both of them can certainly bust a tackle. With the cover just held a second or two longer by those CNK/JB runs too...

And if CNK was just in support off Wightons hip, then Wighton almost always pokes his body through off that left foot step (even when he doesn't break through entirely)- then CNK would be there as an offload option on the back of Wightons run too.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yep, we've got two players on the right in Williams and Bateman who just love to run the ball. Bateman is currently a black hole with the ball.

Stuart is also lining CNK up on the right so Williams can play both sides of the ruck. Nobody outside Bateman is getting much ball in that situation, although I think that will improve next season.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by hrundi89 »

Lui_Bon wrote: September 13, 2020, 2:12 am You want some other random instead? They'll all have other faults - because they all do - and you'll whine about them too.
Well said...
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Northern Raider »

BadnMean wrote: September 14, 2020, 8:54 am
zim wrote: September 13, 2020, 10:52 pm

I think we'd get more from CNK if he was hanging off Wighton's right shoulder and George's left. Even if he just creates doubt or he provides an option for someone like Bateman cutting back in.

How it looks at the moment is they've trained for something that is just not getting used.
Maybe it'll see some use in the finals as the usual go left is defended more effectively.
This part definitely.

George always looks like he's just begging for a straight runner as he drifts across- CNK looming up for an inside short ball would fit the bill. Then the defender has to stick with CNK + Bateman will likely be hitting that angle back in that direction too so George has two short ball options then, or that should have made room for Rapa + Cotric to be 2 on 2 at worst out there And both of them can certainly bust a tackle. With the cover just held a second or two longer by those CNK/JB runs too...

And if CNK was just in support off Wightons hip, then Wighton almost always pokes his body through off that left foot step (even when he doesn't break through entirely)- then CNK would be there as an offload option on the back of Wightons run too.
I've noticed that and a little concerned it hasn't improved now he's got nearly 20 matches with the team. He only seems to get a middle forward cutting back in while his edge players tend to wait.

Can't say if he's not communicating or the guys around him aren't taking enough initiative.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Botman »

He's trying to communicate but no one other than Jonneh can **** understand him!
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Botman wrote: September 14, 2020, 2:20 pm He's trying to communicate but no one other than Jonneh can **** understand him!
Poor guy, there's only 3 other players who understand anything coming out of his mouth, and one of them's leaving next year!
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Northern Raider »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: September 14, 2020, 2:23 pm
Botman wrote: September 14, 2020, 2:20 pm He's trying to communicate but no one other than Jonneh can **** understand him!
Poor guy, there's only 3 other players who understand anything coming out of his mouth, and one of them's leaving next year!
You missed one. We have a total of 5 soap dodgers.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Northern Raider wrote:
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: September 14, 2020, 2:23 pm
Botman wrote: September 14, 2020, 2:20 pm He's trying to communicate but no one other than Jonneh can **** understand him!
Poor guy, there's only 3 other players who understand anything coming out of his mouth, and one of them's leaving next year!
You missed one. We have a total of 5 soap dodgers.
Soap dodgers? Maaaaate, sounds like someone needs to have a bubble bath!
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by The Nickman »

Sounds like he's already having a bubble bath, mate. Surely?
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Seiffert82 »

Northern Raider wrote: September 14, 2020, 1:08 pm
BadnMean wrote: September 14, 2020, 8:54 am
zim wrote: September 13, 2020, 10:52 pm

I think we'd get more from CNK if he was hanging off Wighton's right shoulder and George's left. Even if he just creates doubt or he provides an option for someone like Bateman cutting back in.

How it looks at the moment is they've trained for something that is just not getting used.
Maybe it'll see some use in the finals as the usual go left is defended more effectively.
This part definitely.

George always looks like he's just begging for a straight runner as he drifts across- CNK looming up for an inside short ball would fit the bill. Then the defender has to stick with CNK + Bateman will likely be hitting that angle back in that direction too so George has two short ball options then, or that should have made room for Rapa + Cotric to be 2 on 2 at worst out there And both of them can certainly bust a tackle. With the cover just held a second or two longer by those CNK/JB runs too...

And if CNK was just in support off Wightons hip, then Wighton almost always pokes his body through off that left foot step (even when he doesn't break through entirely)- then CNK would be there as an offload option on the back of Wightons run too.
I've noticed that and a little concerned it hasn't improved now he's got nearly 20 matches with the team. He only seems to get a middle forward cutting back in while his edge players tend to wait.

Can't say if he's not communicating or the guys around him aren't taking enough initiative.
Bateman should be running those lines a lot harder than he is.

I expect CHN to run quite well off Williams. Bateman's unorthodox running game played a lot better off Sezer's passing.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by rayden83 »

pickles wrote: September 12, 2020, 7:29 pm
rayden83 wrote:Great club man and all, but I feel like Croker’s Raiders career is on borrowed time. This year in particular he has looked out of his depth for large parts of it. It’s not like a loss of form or anything, he’s basically playing the same as he always has, however it feels like the game has evolved in the last few years and 2020 centres need to be either strong OR fast, and he is neither. I guess the question is whether his pros (goal kicking, captaincy, attitude etc) outweigh his cons and whether we are good enough to win a Premiership with our lacklustre centre pairing. As he gets older you would expect his speed, strength and form to further deteriorate, and while loyalty is important, giving our club the best chance of winning a premiership someday is more important. I give him next season and fear that may be curtains for Jarrod’s NRL career.
This is a flat out bull **** post on the back of the game he had today. Scored a try, had a try assist and played well in attack and defence. Made one error in being taken over the sideline.

His strength has always been his balance. He is light on his feet, especially in traffic and it creates opportunities. He has never been a power player and never will be but that seems to be a continual criticism!

Regardless of what the muppet brigade think he won’t be going anywhere and not should he. Lucky we have Ricky picking the team!
Ahem
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by -PJ- »

Today-

Jarrod Crokers goal kicking gets him a first grade jersey.

He needs a big off season. I can't say emphasis that enough.

He'll spend the whole off season absolutely filthy on himself.

I hope he can fire up..imo he's under pressure.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by LastRaider »

Unfortunately we have another 3 years of carrying Croker as a passenger on this team. The end!
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Goal kicking shouldn't earn anyone a spot in FG. Hoping Croker returns with his 2019 form.

He's actually here till the end of 2024. Seems the deal was structured around him overtaking Cam Smith.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Neeeegz »

He's not offering much other than goal kicking at the moment...
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Timoko offers more than Croker at the moment. If he plays like in the last two weeks and deteriorates like this we will have a Darius Boyd situation
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by BadnMean »

-PJ- wrote: October 17, 2020, 6:00 am Today-

Jarrod Crokers goal kicking gets him a first grade jersey.

He needs a big off season. I can't say emphasis that enough.

He'll spend the whole off season absolutely filthy on himself.

I hope he can fire up..imo he's under pressure.
Toots had umpteen credits in the bank at the Raiders. He's cashed a lot of those in this season.

He'll start next sure sure as night follows day. But I agree, he needs to show some improvement. He had a poor year, capped by a poor showing in the big game when we needed more from him.

If there's not signs of life from him early rounds next year then the pressure will build but will Stick make the call? I really doubt it. And that's worrying.

Kicking doesn't worry me so much. George W was Wigans first choice kicker once established there in FG wasn't he?
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by -TW- »

He needs something in attack

He gets belted taking hit ups, and his pace is pretty ordinary.

That said he's developed the ability to set up his winger.

I was furious when he didn't belt Vunivalu in to touch, that was unforgivable

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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by zim »

The pattern for the last couple of games was muffing it up in the first half then fixing those issues in the second. In the second he pulled off some more difficult stops against the same guy giving him problems in the first.
Early aggression is what was lacking.
Him and Whitehead both dropped off a bit in the finals series. Croker more so.

Rapana also doesn't seem to be able to hold a consistent structure in defense, too used to the wing to do it week in and out. Hopefully we never see him in centre again. The young guys should be at the stage where they can spend time there if we're forced.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Belcher#1 »

I'm hoping he's been playing with a busted sternum and ribs that can heal over the off-season because I've never seen a player avoid taking a hitup or get completely dominated in the tackle when they do, as much as Croker.

I agree with Zim. Aggression in defense is what Croker is good at; tackling the opposition as soon as they catch the ball. When he's on his heels unsure whether to push up or slide he usually ends up on his ****.
Last edited by Belcher#1 on October 17, 2020, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by rayden83 »

Belcher#1 wrote: October 17, 2020, 5:27 pm I'm hoping he's been playing with a busted sternum and ribs that can heal over the off-season because I've never a player avoid taking a hitup
I would say the opposite is the case. Toots loves taking a hit up, usually when we’re pinned on our own line. He makes his customary 3-5m and gets swatted down like a fly. We often struggle getting the ball out of our own end and when we do you can be sure Croker is in the thick it.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Belcher#1 »

rayden83 wrote: October 17, 2020, 8:54 pm
Belcher#1 wrote: October 17, 2020, 5:27 pm I'm hoping he's been playing with a busted sternum and ribs that can heal over the off-season because I've seen never a player avoid taking a hitup
I would say the opposite is the case. Toots loves taking a hit up, usually when we’re pinned on our own line. He makes his customary 3-5m and gets swatted down like a fly. We often struggle getting the ball out of our own end and when we do you can be sure Croker is in the thick it.
He makes those hitups when there is no one else able to. Took him 30min before his first run yesterday
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Matt »

In 2020:
Croker is 5th for kicks made this yr.

Kicking at 82.35% (2% above his career avg). That is 3rd behind Smith and Reynolds. (Cleary can still pass him approx 1% behind)

If you go by the true kicker theory, which adds in difficulty by kick location he is still 1st, Reynolds 2nd, Smith 3rd.

Centre is the least important position on the field in the modern game. All u ask is that they hold their own. Croker still does that, even despite the horror that was the other night. But given we get a top 3 or 4 GK out of it we are in front.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Raider47 »

Matt wrote: October 19, 2020, 2:00 pm

Centre is the least important position on the field in the modern game. All u ask is that they hold their own. Croker still does that, even despite the horror that was the other night. But given we get a top 3 or 4 GK out of it we are in front.
I disagree that he is holding his own. By the end of the season he was getting shown up far too often.

If he could shore up his defence, sure, but his inadequacies is made worse by the fact our other centre is an out of positioned and aging Rapana or a mediocre Scott and surrounded by unproven wingers. He is also paid too much and we have too little strike to accept 'holding his own' as good enough.

The defensive responsibilities of a centre is super important.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Matt »

Raider47 wrote: October 19, 2020, 2:12 pm
Matt wrote: October 19, 2020, 2:00 pm

Centre is the least important position on the field in the modern game. All u ask is that they hold their own. Croker still does that, even despite the horror that was the other night. But given we get a top 3 or 4 GK out of it we are in front.
I disagree that he is holding his own. By the end of the season he was getting shown up far too often.

If he could shore up his defence, sure, but his inadequacies is made worse by the fact our other centre is an out of positioned and aging Rapana or a mediocre Scott and surrounded by unproven wingers. He is also paid too much and we have too little strike to accept 'holding his own' as good enough.

The defensive responsibilities of a centre is super important.
Croker vs other centres 2020 (this is really hard coz there are a few guys who played wing and FB above him, plus peachey and aubbo who played in the forwards, so Ive gone with a range in those):
Tries: 21st
Try assists (last pass/ kick): 7th (give or take Darius - May played other positions equally)
Try contributions (major part in try scoring play): 3rd
Try involvements (touch in try scoring play): 10th
Line Breaks: 13-15th
Line Break assists: 15-19th
Tackle Busts: waaaaaay back
Offloads: 14-17th
Run meteres: 19th-21st

Tackle Efficiency (its the only tackling stat that really matters IMO): 80% - which has has him 50th, but there seem to be even more forwards on this list than the previous ones, and also has a heap of 1 gamers. (Missed tackles: 3rd with 48, not great.)
Try causes: 25th-30th

There are 32 centres on any given weekend:
He is in the top half for most of those attacking stats. Worst season for him in regards to tries, but thats holding his own.

His tackle efficiency is poor, BUT, he is at the bottom of those 32 for try causes, meaning his 'misses' aren't leading to points. I've made this comment a few times about Hodgo and Croker, but while their 1st up contact isn't always good, more often than not, they slow said player down for help to arrive.

As previously mentioned, his GKing is invaluable.

I think this is probably his worst season to date, but Id still call that holding his own. I mean, we still made a prelim.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Pete Cash »

Rapana was worse but that gets fixed next year. I doubt he plays much centre. I was having a heart attack every time the roosters and storm shifted the ball left at any point on the field.

Croker was never the most physical player but outside of some early years did the job. He just can't afford to lose much with age. Honestly a strong gust of wind would have put vunivalu into touch. Croker needs to be at least as physical as a strong gust of wind.

The miss on vunivalu was very very disappointing from a team leader but his game against the roosters was more worrying. He normally covers Manu ok. Let's hope it's an injury/poor form rather than anything permanent
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Seiffert82 »

The main thing that resonates with me was that he was filthy with his own form after the Roosters final, and he backed it up with a poor game against the Storm. In comparison, I thought he had a good finals series last year and he shut down Manu in the GF.

It will be interesting to see how he responds next season. I don't think he's happy with the way he is travelling.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Matt »

nachopants wrote: October 21, 2020, 5:42 pm https://streamable.com/hryoup

The NRL360 take
Great stuff.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: October 21, 2020, 5:34 pm The main thing that resonates with me was that he was filthy with his own form after the Roosters final, and he backed it up with a poor game against the Storm. In comparison, I thought he had a good finals series last year and he shut down Manu in the GF.

It will be interesting to see how he responds next season. I don't think he's happy with the way he is travelling.
He's said this a few times this year, re his own level of play
He's aware of it.

Whether this is the outlier season and next year it's back more towards what we've seen from him over his career, or this was just the begining of his decline as a footballer into his 30's... i dont know that yet, i suspect we'll get that answer pretty early in 2021
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by BadnMean »

I wonder if it was that trust he'd built up in Cotric or Simonsen outside him that allowed him the clear mind to just worry about his own defence in 2019? He really powered up at the back end of 2019 to the point where in a few of the bigger games his defence was actually a plus, really hitting solid. Possible he had half a mind on what Semi or Rapana (earlier) was up to in 2020...

Just looking for an explanation other than a sudden physical decline.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: October 21, 2020, 6:32 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: October 21, 2020, 5:34 pm The main thing that resonates with me was that he was filthy with his own form after the Roosters final, and he backed it up with a poor game against the Storm. In comparison, I thought he had a good finals series last year and he shut down Manu in the GF.

It will be interesting to see how he responds next season. I don't think he's happy with the way he is travelling.
He's said this a few times this year, re his own level of play
He's aware of it.

Whether this is the outlier season and next year it's back more towards what we've seen from him over his career, or this was just the begining of his decline as a footballer into his 30's... i dont know that yet, i suspect we'll get that answer pretty early in 2021
BadnMean wrote: October 22, 2020, 10:09 am I wonder if it was that trust he'd built up in Cotric or Simonsen outside him that allowed him the clear mind to just worry about his own defence in 2019? He really powered up at the back end of 2019 to the point where in a few of the bigger games his defence was actually a plus, really hitting solid. Possible he had half a mind on what Semi or Rapana (earlier) was up to in 2020...

Just looking for an explanation other than a sudden physical decline.
Yes, I suspect early 2021 will give us a fair indication on whether Toots is on the downhill slide. I think he has been unfairly criticised for a number of years, but 2020 was not good for him.

I also agree that a mitigating circumstance is the way Stuart managed our 3/4 line. Moving Cotric to the right and Rapa to the left wing caused all sorts of disruption early on. Absolutely nobody looked good at that point. It didn't get any better with Scott out of form and Simmo getting injured too. The whole thing was a shambles in both attack and defence.

Dunno, I hope he bounces back. Age is not on his side now, but he definitely needs to resolve that arm grabbing in defence as the first priority.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by woppadingo »

BadnMean wrote: October 22, 2020, 10:09 am I wonder if it was that trust he'd built up in Cotric or Simonsen outside him that allowed him the clear mind to just worry about his own defence in 2019? He really powered up at the back end of 2019 to the point where in a few of the bigger games his defence was actually a plus, really hitting solid. Possible he had half a mind on what Semi or Rapana (earlier) was up to in 2020...

Just looking for an explanation other than a sudden physical decline.
Ive seen a couple of times when players have just had kids, their game suffers a bit. I could understand if that is a factor this year.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by BadnMean »

woppadingo wrote: October 22, 2020, 11:51 am
BadnMean wrote: October 22, 2020, 10:09 am I wonder if it was that trust he'd built up in Cotric or Simonsen outside him that allowed him the clear mind to just worry about his own defence in 2019? He really powered up at the back end of 2019 to the point where in a few of the bigger games his defence was actually a plus, really hitting solid. Possible he had half a mind on what Semi or Rapana (earlier) was up to in 2020...

Just looking for an explanation other than a sudden physical decline.
Ive seen a couple of times when players have just had kids, their game suffers a bit. I could understand if that is a factor this year.
He had kids mid season didn't he. I actually remember posting around that time that maybe he was a bit distracted or short of sleep. Could also be a factor.
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Re: Jarrod Croker's goal kicking

Post by Boomercm »

BadnMean wrote: October 22, 2020, 5:42 pm
woppadingo wrote: October 22, 2020, 11:51 am
BadnMean wrote: October 22, 2020, 10:09 am I wonder if it was that trust he'd built up in Cotric or Simonsen outside him that allowed him the clear mind to just worry about his own defence in 2019? He really powered up at the back end of 2019 to the point where in a few of the bigger games his defence was actually a plus, really hitting solid. Possible he had half a mind on what Semi or Rapana (earlier) was up to in 2020...

Just looking for an explanation other than a sudden physical decline.
Ive seen a couple of times when players have just had kids, their game suffers a bit. I could understand if that is a factor this year.
He had kids mid season didn't he. I actually remember posting around that time that maybe he was a bit distracted or short of sleep. Could also be a factor.
Kids and the bubble. Bad mix. Probably allowed no grandparent support etc. Was a really tough year on many fronts. Even still he was definitely down a bit on previous seasons. He was fantastic in last years finals series (his cover tackle on wrong side on field on Latrell in GF comes to mind, what a play) but not this one.

Next year will tell the tale. I expect him to start strong. We should then be giving him a couple of weeks off somewhere 2/3 way through the season as a freshen up
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