greeneyed wrote:Could we avoid the personal comments please and stick to the footy?
Personal view... By the way, I suspect the bulk of Canberra fans, including on this board, love Jarrod Croker. Repeated posts on the same subject from a few posters, might not represent the prevailing view, I suspect it doesn't.
greeneyed wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 6:56 pm
Could we avoid the personal comments please and stick to the footy?
Personal view... By the way, I suspect the bulk of Canberra fans, including on this board, love Jarrod Croker. Repeated posts on the same subject from a few posters, might not represent the prevailing view, I suspect it doesn't.
I suspect that's true. Does that put him above valid criticism, however?
Certain posters clearly don't have the ability to debate the points, so time and time again resort to jumping down people's throats to defend any hint of it.
The trouble is Croker was a pretty shakey defender early in his career, since then he's improved dramatically and 95% of the time he's no better or worse than most other centres in the league, he's not Jamie Lyon and no one has ever pretended he was.
Like most other centres in the game he's prone to the odd stinker... but a select few posters never moved on from the early days so when something happens like last night where he had a tough game (and actually just a tough half, he was fine in the 2nd half), they get their party hats on and make hay whilst their sun shines and they get to pretend his rough nights are more common than they are.
They probably only do this because Croker is a much loved member of the team by 99% of the fan base and they're rightly told to shut the **** up most of the time when they're running 8 year old agendas, so when they get this sort of chance, they have to take it.
The clowns on here still having a go at Croker and his apparent defence issues.
He's played a decade of first grade NRL. Has scored more tries, kicked more goals, and scored more points than ANY OTHER PLAYER IN CANBERRA RAIDERS HISTORY.
At what point are you idiots ever happy??
130 odd tries and your'e still bleating on like fat kids with no mothers. Awww no, his defence is rubbish. No it isn't. If it was rubbish, he wouldn't have played over 250 first grade games.
Get over it and stop being jerks. Sorry, but this forum is full of the same crap every day, and to be honest, you're mostly wrong. Mostly. In this case, you are wrong.
I mean, some people on here still reference the missed kick against the Tigers A DECADE AGO as a negative on the guy.
Croker is awesome. Give the kid some credit. There won't be another player in our history that comes close to any of his records.
In 2-3 years he'll have played more games for the club than anyone and there'll still be some bloke on here who thinks himself an expert as to why Toots shouldn't have played one game.
Rant over. I've had chocolate. I just hate the negativity on this forum.
I hope he wins the trophy one day and gets the chance to tell a few of the misery guts on here to get stuffed.
Botman wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 7:16 pm
The trouble is Croker was a pretty shakey defender early in his career, since then he's improved dramatically and 95% of the time he's no better or worse than most other centres in the league, he's not Jamie Lyon and no one has ever pretended he was.
Like most other centres in the game he's prone to the odd stinker... but a select few posters never moved on from the early days so when something happens like last night where he had a tough game (and actually just a tough half, he was fine in the 2nd half), they get their party hats on and make hay whilst their sun shines and they get to pretend his rough nights are more common than they are.
They probably only do this because Croker is a much loved member of the team by 99% of the fan base and they're rightly told to shut the **** up most of the time when they're running 8 year old agendas, so when they get this sort of chance, they have to take it.
Seems to be almost the same people that **** on ricky as well as soon as we cop a loss. We've got a few "worst thread" award winners in that group.
Botman wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 7:16 pm
The trouble is Croker was a pretty shakey defender early in his career, since then he's improved dramatically and 95% of the time he's no better or worse than most other centres in the league, he's not Jamie Lyon and no one has ever pretended he was.
Like most other centres in the game he's prone to the odd stinker... but a select few posters never moved on from the early days so when something happens like last night where he had a tough game (and actually just a tough half, he was fine in the 2nd half), they get their party hats on and make hay whilst their sun shines and they get to pretend his rough nights are more common than they are.
They probably only do this because Croker is a much loved member of the team by 99% of the fan base and they're rightly told to shut the **** up most of the time when they're running 8 year old agendas, so when they get this sort of chance, they have to take it.
greeneyed wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 8:43 pm
He was better than fine in the second half.
I was speaking strictly defensively. But it's a point well made, Staggs certainly took Croker's recess money in the first half, but Croker came back at lunch to collect with interest.
Botman wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 7:16 pm
The trouble is Croker was a pretty shakey defender early in his career, since then he's improved dramatically and 95% of the time he's no better or worse than most other centres in the league, he's not Jamie Lyon and no one has ever pretended he was.
Like most other centres in the game he's prone to the odd stinker... but a select few posters never moved on from the early days so when something happens like last night where he had a tough game (and actually just a tough half, he was fine in the 2nd half), they get their party hats on and make hay whilst their sun shines and they get to pretend his rough nights are more common than they are.
They probably only do this because Croker is a much loved member of the team by 99% of the fan base and they're rightly told to shut the **** up most of the time when they're running 8 year old agendas, so when they get this sort of chance, they have to take it.
Seems to be almost the same people that **** on ricky as well as soon as we cop a loss. We've got a few "worst thread" award winners in that group.
Eh, it is what it is
We've got hills we're willing to die on. That's what i love most about sport, and why i spend a lot of time on places like this. 100 people can see the same thing and take 40 different positions on what they saw.
I agree with akslaksa on probably 90% of things in RL, the other 10% we disagree vehemently on.
But like i said, when Croker has the first half like he had, you have to except asjakla to get his kicks in where he can.
Im sure posters feel the same level of dismisal about some of my views too.
Last edited by Botman on August 16, 2020, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
greeneyed wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 8:43 pm
He was better than fine in the second half.
I was speaking strictly defensively. But it's a point well made, Staggs certainly took Croker's recess money in the first half, but Croker came back at lunch to collect with interest.
The person who made this forum made that the closest thing to a LIKE!
For some reason he didn’t put in a simple thumbs up!
greeneyed wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 8:43 pm
He was better than fine in the second half.
I was speaking strictly defensively. But it's a point well made, Staggs certainly took Croker's recess money in the first half, but Croker came back at lunch to collect with interest.
The person who made this forum made that the closest thing to a LIKE!
For some reason he didn’t put in a simple thumbs up!
I've been a critic of his over the years but I don't think he's going too badly this year. He has been monstered with ball in hand a few times the last couple of weeks. Looking at the numbers I don't think he's got the 3 or 4 years left in him required to overtake Cam Smith unfortunately. Hopefully I'm proven wrong there.
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 9:08 pm
I've been a critic of his over the years but I don't think he's going too badly this year. He has been monstered with ball in hand a few times the last couple of weeks. Looking at the numbers I don't think he's got the 3 or 4 years left in him required to overtake Cam Smith unfortunately. Hopefully I'm proven wrong there.
And I thought you were going to comment on the lack of a thumbs up icon!
I think he's going alright too, but even as a fan of his and a defender of his, there is some signs that he's toward the end of his career. He's never been a speed merchant but he's always had solid pace, he's lost a step or two this year
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 9:08 pm
I've been a critic of his over the years but I don't think he's going too badly this year. He has been monstered with ball in hand a few times the last couple of weeks. Looking at the numbers I don't think he's got the 3 or 4 years left in him required to overtake Cam Smith unfortunately. Hopefully I'm proven wrong there.
And I thought you were going to comment on the lack of a thumbs up icon!
I wasn't in the boardroom the day the thumbs up decision was made
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑August 16, 2020, 9:08 pm
I've been a critic of his over the years but I don't think he's going too badly this year. He has been monstered with ball in hand a few times the last couple of weeks. Looking at the numbers I don't think he's got the 3 or 4 years left in him required to overtake Cam Smith unfortunately. Hopefully I'm proven wrong there.
And I thought you were going to comment on the lack of a thumbs up icon!
I wasn't in the boardroom the day the thumbs up decision was made
Croker's improved kicking is quite impressive this year. Not just the percentages, but from where he is kicking them from (as has been mentioned). Last year his kicks from out wide were atrocious. This year he's nailing them with ease.
Last year he had the lowest kicking percentage of his career, at a measly 73%. This year he's at 87.5%, the best of his career. Last year he missed 32 goals. This year he's missed 6.
I wonder if someone had a chat to him in the off season about it, or if he took it upon himself to practice more, or if he was playing with injury last year? Not sure what he's done different but it's a massive improvement.
In a year when our attack is spluttering and we're struggling to score more than 2-3 tries per game, his goals are getting us wins.
Finchy wrote: ↑August 17, 2020, 1:01 pm
Croker's improved kicking is quite impressive this year. Not just the percentages, but from where he is kicking them from (as has been mentioned). Last year his kicks from out wide were atrocious. This year he's nailing them with ease.
Last year he had the lowest kicking percentage of his career, at a measly 73%. This year he's at 87.5%, the best of his career. Last year he missed 32 goals. This year he's missed 6.
I wonder if someone had a chat to him in the off season about it, or if he took it upon himself to practice more, or if he was playing with injury last year? Not sure what he's done different but it's a massive improvement.
In a year when our attack is spluttering and we're struggling to score more than 2-3 tries per game, his goals are getting us wins.
He's recently said he practices less this year. If he isn't feeling good physically, he eases off the kicking practice.
Finchy wrote: ↑August 17, 2020, 1:01 pm
Croker's improved kicking is quite impressive this year. Not just the percentages, but from where he is kicking them from (as has been mentioned). Last year his kicks from out wide were atrocious. This year he's nailing them with ease.
Last year he had the lowest kicking percentage of his career, at a measly 73%. This year he's at 87.5%, the best of his career. Last year he missed 32 goals. This year he's missed 6.
I wonder if someone had a chat to him in the off season about it, or if he took it upon himself to practice more, or if he was playing with injury last year? Not sure what he's done different but it's a massive improvement.
In a year when our attack is spluttering and we're struggling to score more than 2-3 tries per game, his goals are getting us wins.
He's recently said he practices less this year. If he isn't feeling good physically, he eases off the kicking practice.
Interesting. He's always been an excellent technical goal kicker though he had a case of the yips last year. Just wasn't striking the ball as cleanly as we're used to. He was no doubt aware of it and any extra practice was not doing anything to address the psychological part of it. Possible he's now cleared the head and is operating more on muscle memory.
As for his kicking on Saturday, that was as good as I've seen from anybody ever. Was nailing everything.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
He played with a strapped knee last season which probably affected his balance and fluidity, thus cutting back his percentage. I think just getting over whatever ailed him has allowed him to not only regain his kicking form but to improve on it. I honestly would have him in my all time best five kickers.
He does seem to have lost a little pace in recent times, but I wonder if the hard work he does rucking the ball out has some ill effect. He was criticised for his inability to catch a winger from behind early in the weekend game, but neither he nor the guy he was chasing gained ground against the other so I think the criticism was harsh. He h
**** Don't know what happened there, meant to conclude with "he holds his own against most centres". Kotoni Stags is an exceptionally good player who got the best of Croker when Broncos had a surplus of ball, he was matched in the second half.
Cranky Old Man wrote: ↑August 17, 2020, 5:40 pm
He played with a strapped knee last season which probably affected his balance and fluidity, thus cutting back his percentage. I think just getting over whatever ailed him has allowed him to not only regain his kicking form but to improve on it. I honestly would have him in my all time best five kickers.
He does seem to have lost a little pace in recent times, but I wonder if the hard work he does rucking the ball out has some ill effect. He was criticised for his inability to catch a winger from behind early in the weekend game, but neither he nor the guy he was chasing gained ground against the other so I think the criticism was harsh. He h
Every member of the back 5 in every team does work rucking it out. So I don't know how that counts as slowing Croker down any more than anyone else, since he rucks out _less_ than any other back 5 member since he isn't great at it.
He's a bit slower. He's 29. You can see it in that he makes less breaks, slices through less, can't wrong foot and get his body between defenders as often. All that means less yards, not as dangerous. Staggs was a couple of gears quicker than he and Rapa on the weekend.
It doesn't make him bad. He has other skills. But the cutting edge is gone. Rapana is in the same boat. In my opinion it may be silly to think either is going to regain full potency by a miracle of reverse ageing. Toots was good last year, so I'll wait and see. But his kicking is great and if he defends well, he's well worth a spot.
Toots got a bit more early ball in the second half and profited.
He hasn't been getting particularly good service from Wighton this year. As was pointed out in the post-Panthers game thread, our halves had a pass:run ratio of 2:1, which is absolutely ridiculous and largely explains why our backline has been completely ineffective this season.
Croker is not a centre you get to run suicide lines onto crash balls, nor is he there to make hitups. He has great footwork and a nice little kicking and passing game in traffic, especially when he gets early ball to use his footwork to set up his winger. He is also GREAT under the high ball.
Wighton has not used him well all season and it's impacted both their games. Defenders just assume Jack is going to take on the line rather than pass or kick for Toots, so Wighton gets shut down and Croker and his winger get nothing.
Cranky Old Man wrote: ↑August 17, 2020, 5:40 pm
He played with a strapped knee last season which probably affected his balance and fluidity, thus cutting back his percentage. I think just getting over whatever ailed him has allowed him to not only regain his kicking form but to improve on it. I honestly would have him in my all time best five kickers.
He does seem to have lost a little pace in recent times, but I wonder if the hard work he does rucking the ball out has some ill effect. He was criticised for his inability to catch a winger from behind early in the weekend game, but neither he nor the guy he was chasing gained ground against the other so I think the criticism was harsh. He h
Bit of a stretch to put him in the top five, especially when you've got Ridge, Halligan, and El Masri as locks for three spots, and the current Cleary on track to possibly be the best ever. May sneak into the top 10.
BadnMean wrote:
Every member of the back 5 in every team does work rucking it out. So I don't know how that counts as slowing Croker down any more than anyone else, since he rucks out _less_ than any other back 5 member since he isn't great at it.
I don’t think COM meant it as a comparative statement. Just a factual one that potentially rucking it out leaves Croker with bangs/injuries/less energy to be able to hit his natural top speed.
Although if you are talking comparatively his build/size sees he and CNK most impacted by rucking it out.
