Let's be proud of our team!

[cat]

I'm not coming on here to say we have been perfect cause we havent but considering what we have been up against this season I am one proud Raiders fan.

What with the travel , injuries to half the team, creative reffing, living in a bubble, lack of crowds to cheer and lift the boys we are doing pretty well as far as I am concerned.

We have the highest injury rate in the NRL, we travel the most (panthers have left Sydney once all year!) and we are a team that feeds off the crowd.

We have managed to live in a bubble without any mishaps and have not taken the easy way out and used any of our challenges as an excuse.

We are coming 5th and I am quietly confident we will make the top 8 and give the finals a shake up.

I have not heard the boys once whinge or whine about the travel or living in the bubble, they have continued to recognize and appreciate the fan base cheering from home.

So as far as I am concerned we have gone above expectations this year !

[Mickey_Raider]

Sounds like a concession speech to me.

The team has been putting in the hard yards, there is no doubt about that. We can be proud of our team insofar as there has been no lack of effort.

However, the fact is we are reigning grand finalists. Being "...quietly confident we will make the top 8..." probably isn't the standard we should be accepting at this stage of a purported "premiership window".

I get your point in that we have faced a significant amount of adversity and we are still well and truly in the fight, but I can't help but feel this thread is in response to an elevated level of criticism after we were humbled by Penrith last night.

[cat]

I would not say we were humbled by the panthers last night, and either would Cleary otherwise he wouldnt have had a crack at the refs.

We started of slow, yes I will agree with that, as have pretty much all team including the Eels when they have had to travel over 3 hours to get to the game.

We had 463 games worth of experience sitting on the sideline and lost Sivilli during the match and we still stayed in the match

We also traveled to Townsville last week and played in the draining heat.

We had 3 tries which correctly were disallowed, but they show how close we came

We were certainly not humbled by the panthers

The panthers should be disappointed, they should of smashed us last night taking everything into consideration

[Hong Kong Raider]

Sounds like a concession speech to me.

The team has been putting in the hard yards, there is no doubt about that. We can be proud of our team insofar as there has been no lack of effort.

However, the fact is we are reigning grand finalists. Being "...quietly confident we will make the top 8..." probably isn't the standard we should be accepting at this stage of a purported "premiership window".

I get your point in that we have faced a significant amount of adversity and we are still well and truly in the fight, but I can't help but feel this thread is in response to an elevated level of criticism after we were humbled by Penrith last night.

Totally agree. Depends on your expectations and standards. Top 8 is an underachievement, we need to aim for Top 4 as a minimum. If you think we are in a window, this year may be the last year with Bateman and Cotric leaving. Other teams have injuries as well. Yesterday's team was respectable. We need to play smarter and be coached better. We are not a very creative side and don't make a lot of chances so need to use the ball better when we are close to their line. Trent Robinson was correct when he came out before our home game last year to say our attack was predictable. I would say it's not fluent. That set close to the line against the Panthers after the Tamou knock on is a classic example. We cannot beat top 4 sides like that. With our attack, I just see that we are trying to barge over or rely on a 5th tackle kick. More of that shift to Cotric like the Cowboys match pls.

Defence as I said was the key. If we kept them to 12 at half time we could still be in it. Ricky has excellent man management and our group loves playing for him, but was tactically inferior to Ivan Cleary last night. The Liam Martin try - I've seen that move before against Cowboys I think.

We are not using G Williams and Jack well. They need to straighten our attack. We need better use of Cotric. Ditto CHN but it's early days.

I think the players, except Tapine, are OK but Ricky is not using them wisely. Tapine hasn't really improved at all. Just average after all these years; He should force himself into the starting side. CNK hold your head up. Same with Dunamis and Papa. I've got no criticism against Scott for his performance last night although with Croker, their abilities are limited compared to the Panthers backline.

[zim]

Top 4 you have a chance to win the comp.
We expected to have a shot at it this year. Not finishing in the top 4 would be a failure for this team.
I'm proud of how they handled the issues they've been thrown but if we miss the 4 the season is still a failure, and I'd still be proud.

[cat]

Top 4 you have a chance to win the comp.
We expected to have a shot at it this year. Not finishing in the top 4 would be a failure for this team.
I'm proud of how they handled the issues they've been thrown but if we miss the 4 the season is still a failure, and I'd still be proud.

In a normal year i would agree but this year is not normal by any stretch of the imagination

There is always differing degrees of difficulty within the draw but this season its so lopsided its not funny but as Ricky says we just need to be thankful we are even playing this year

I have had numerous people who support other teams say they cant believe how we keep winning and competing considering our injury toll and travel

[LastRaider]

Top 4 you have a chance to win the comp.
We expected to have a shot at it this year. Not finishing in the top 4 would be a failure for this team.
I'm proud of how they handled the issues they've been thrown but if we miss the 4 the season is still a failure, and I'd still be proud.

I agree. At this rate I see us finishing 7th when I use the NRL ladder predictor

[Botman]

Been a pretty tough year on the club, with the COVID situation and what we had to just kind of eat **** on to make sure the comp happened, and hardly ideal situation to ease a key member of the team into the side...

CNK regression, the Scott debarcle, Hodgson playing like garbage, the travel and then the key injuries on top of it. Winning a comp requires a lot of hard work and talent but there is always an element of luck in it too.. This year we havent had much luck

Which is not to just wipe the slate clean and come back in 2020 and go again... there is major problems with the team that will need to be addressed, but MOST of the ingrediants for a premiership winning team are still here.

[zim]

Top 4 you have a chance to win the comp.
We expected to have a shot at it this year. Not finishing in the top 4 would be a failure for this team.
I'm proud of how they handled the issues they've been thrown but if we miss the 4 the season is still a failure, and I'd still be proud.

I agree. At this rate I see us finishing 7th when I use the NRL ladder predictor

I have us with a home final but getting taken care of in the second week.
Which is pretty much where I had us when we lost to Parra a number of weeks ago.

[casta66]

Good:
- couldn't be happier so far with G Williams. Love his flair.
- Feel like we have seen a different Curtis Scott the last 2 weeks. Playing hard and direct. Like it.
- Nami Lui has become world class with the injuries around him.

Worrying:
- No Cotric next year. With such little strike out wide, expect more crash plays. Papa to be top try scorer in 2021
Thanks heavens we may have Rapa, but it's not really enough.

[cat]

Top 4 you have a chance to win the comp.
We expected to have a shot at it this year. Not finishing in the top 4 would be a failure for this team.
I'm proud of how they handled the issues they've been thrown but if we miss the 4 the season is still a failure, and I'd still be proud.

I agree. At this rate I see us finishing 7th when I use the NRL ladder predictor

I have us with a home final but getting taken care of in the second week.
Which is pretty much where I had us when we lost to Parra a number of weeks ago.

I have us coming 5th and playing the Storm in the Grand Final

[afgtnk]

Think we're little to no chance of top four from here, although with the cushy run we've got I can't see us below six.

Those two scrappy wins last week and the week before were absolutely crucial to determine the direction of end ladder position and ensure we've got a decent buffer - we'd be ninth right now without them.

[greeneyed]

Been a pretty tough year on the club, with the COVID situation and what we had to just kind of eat **** on to make sure the comp happened, and hardly ideal situation to ease a key member of the team into the side...

CNK regression, the Scott debarcle, Hodgson playing like garbage, the travel and then the key injuries on top of it. Winning a comp requires a lot of hard work and talent but there is always an element of luck in it too.. This year we havent had much luck

Which is not to just wipe the slate clean and come back in 2020 and go again... there is major problems with the team that will need to be addressed, but MOST of the ingrediants for a premiership winning team are still here.

Surely you’re not using the “we need a bit of luck” excuse!?

[Off]

Nope.

[Botman]

Been a pretty tough year on the club, with the COVID situation and what we had to just kind of eat **** on to make sure the comp happened, and hardly ideal situation to ease a key member of the team into the side...

CNK regression, the Scott debarcle, Hodgson playing like garbage, the travel and then the key injuries on top of it. Winning a comp requires a lot of hard work and talent but there is always an element of luck in it too.. This year we havent had much luck

Which is not to just wipe the slate clean and come back in 2020 and go again... there is major problems with the team that will need to be addressed, but MOST of the ingrediants for a premiership winning team are still here.

Surely you’re not using the “we need a bit of luck” excuse!?

Not at all. It's not excuse. You succeed or fail on the strength of your roster, coaching and club culture. You dont build around luck.

But I have never denied that some element of luck is a requisite part of success in a single isolated season, be it the right bounce of the ball in the right game (the ball cannons into a trainer instead of going through clean in the GF last year as an example), or as it pertains to this specific season for the Raiders in 2020, the injury situation and losing Josh Hodgson, plus cluster injuries in the middles which significantly caps our ceiling to be able to realistically compete with the best teams at the business end of the season. I mean any given sunday and all that.

I've experienced a team overcoming this kind of catastrophic injury luck to win a comp, but i dont think that's the norm. And whilst we come into this season hoping to go a step further, multiple things have conspired against that, again, some self inflicted and many not, but i dont think anyone has ever argued you dont need a bit of luck to win a comp... but you have to build a team and a club that is consistently competing on and off the park to put yourself in position to throw be throwing haymakers in the 12th round.

We did that last year, i do think we were poised to do it this year, even with some concerning issues, but there is no accounting for Josh Hodgson's knee giving way. And that's the luck teams need. The roosters are cooked if it was Keary with a busted knee over Verrills or Radley..

[benda]

i agree with the sentiment around our attack.

Lets just say 5 years ago we would have been really happy with our side now. We have improvement for sure but the standards have been lifted and we are evolving.

This season just isnt equitable. We are travelling 3 hours just to play a game in sydney. Most opposing players are driving to the game. Its going to take a toll. I am guess a learning from Apollo should be to consider allowing Raider more home games. Im sure with a bit of statistical analysis the draw could be made fairer by considering the travel teams are doing.

Unfortunately we do have an endless supply of talent like the roosters, who i believe are destined to win the comp. The other night against st george they had 7 players out. Of which Im guessint 5 or 6 will play finals footy.

[GreenMachine]

Top 4 you have a chance to win the comp.
We expected to have a shot at it this year. Not finishing in the top 4 would be a failure for this team.
I'm proud of how they handled the issues they've been thrown but if we miss the 4 the season is still a failure, and I'd still be proud.

In a normal year i would agree but this year is not normal by any stretch of the imagination

There is always differing degrees of difficulty within the draw but this season its so lopsided its not funny but as Ricky says we just need to be thankful we are even playing this year

I have had numerous people who support other teams say they cant believe how we keep winning and competing considering our injury toll and travel

Agree with Cat.
Not a normal year by any stretch.
Panthers and Eels have been gifted a draw that will ensure them a top 4 spot.

[Roger Kenworthy]

To the eye Williams looks like a really significant upgrade on Sezer. But as a team we're really struggling with our attack on the opposition line and putting players into space doesn't seem to be a strength of Williams. Far more threatening with ball in hand and a slightly better kicking game is where I'd have him. Sezer possible with the edge in passing game and defence is a wash.

[papabear]

I still think we are a good chance at the 4.

We have 5 games against teams outside the top 8 that if we are any chance this year we will win.

2 games against the chooks and sharks.

We could easily go 5 out of 7, should go 6 out of 7 which should get us in the top 4, 7 out of 7 and we will place very high.

[Raider47]

To the eye Williams looks like a really significant upgrade on Sezer. But as a team we're really struggling with our attack on the opposition line and putting players into space doesn't seem to be a strength of Williams. Far more threatening with ball in hand and a slightly better kicking game is where I'd have him. Sezer possible with the edge in passing game and defence is a wash.

Yep I was having that same discussion the other day. I have no doubt Williams and Wighton are individually better players but either through the system we are playing or as organisers there are problems.

[Northern Raider]

To the eye Williams looks like a really significant upgrade on Sezer. But as a team we're really struggling with our attack on the opposition line and putting players into space doesn't seem to be a strength of Williams. Far more threatening with ball in hand and a slightly better kicking game is where I'd have him. Sezer possible with the edge in passing game and defence is a wash.

I agree. Williams is a much bigger threat to defense's but not a natural passer. Could say the same about Wighton too. In that scenario the attacking structure needs to work to their strengths, which is taking on the line. That's why I think we need to play more direct and not try too many of those sweeping backline plays. By doing so we create space through pressure and disrupting the defensive structure by getting them on their heels. Trying to do it through deception and slick passing is not our go.

[BJ]

I think the only area Sezer squeaks ahead of Williams is structured passing.

Williams needs to mix his loopy pass to the winger with a hard and fast pass to his second rower and centre. Also Sezer had a pass back inside that worked sometimes too.

Nothing George Williams can’t develop further. I’d also like to see Williams look to run straight more than sideways.

[Botman]

It is very curious that we'd all agree that Williams is objectively a better footballer and more dangerous player than Sezer but this attack right now is as insipid as it comes.

[Northern Raider]

I think the only area Sezer squeaks ahead of Williams is structured passing.

Williams needs to mix his loopy pass to the winger with a hard and fast pass to his second rower and centre. Also Sezer had a pass back inside that worked sometimes too.

Nothing George Williams can’t develop further. I’d also like to see Williams look to run straight more than sideways.

That last sentence is the biggy

[afgtnk]

To the eye Williams looks like a really significant upgrade on Sezer. But as a team we're really struggling with our attack on the opposition line and putting players into space doesn't seem to be a strength of Williams. Far more threatening with ball in hand and a slightly better kicking game is where I'd have him. Sezer possible with the edge in passing game and defence is a wash.

I rate your footy brain Rog, but this is a bit of a stinker. If you went through the game again and just focused on the touches our halves had, I think you'll clearly find that the issue is the structure of the attack and the lack of players in motion for both of them (more so for George). I don't recall line after line being run for him, only to screw it up. He had one good shot when Papa ran for him, and he nearly put him over for a try with a great ball.

Sezer had next to no ability in putting someone into space - consistently amongst the bottom halfbacks for LBAs and doesn't feature in the NRL's top 50 once between 2016-2019. His problems seem to be that he passes right to a player instead of passing into space for them to run onto, and his inability to engage the line straight and enough by changing the speed of his passing motion.

You've also got to remember that he had both Elliot and Jack playing outside him for the majority of his stint here, and Jack was easily one of the best ball playing fullbacks. We've now gone and replaced him with a guy who's probably one of the worst. George plays with no second receiver and has had a revolving door on the edge.

The only part of Sezer's game that's superior to George's is the accuracy of his long passing and his link up play in sweep moves - that's it. When both halves are made to look ineffective as they are right now, yet they still have breakout moments of brilliance that shows off their raw ability, that clearly tells me the issue lies within the coaching and structure laid out.

[-PJ-]

Proud..