2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
1
8%
Raiders 1-12
8
67%
Draw
0
No votes
Panthers 1-12
0
No votes
Panthers 13+
3
25%
 
Total votes: 12

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greeneyed
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Too late to recruit anyone else now, the August 3 deadline has passed.
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zim
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by zim »

Well this Panthers side was clinical before taking the foot off. Resolute in defence.
Night and day to how they were last year.

Good indication of where we are at and what we need to work on in the second half of the season.
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InFernos_Raiders
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by InFernos_Raiders »

zim wrote: August 9, 2020, 12:53 am Well this Panthers side was clinical before taking the foot off. Resolute in defence.
Night and day to how they were last year.

Good indication of where we are at and what we need to work on in the second half of the season.
Totally agree well said.
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Kryptonite
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

Question wrote: August 8, 2020, 9:42 pm St marys will be going off tonite the crystal meth will be flying around... toothless ****.
That statement is completely unfair, the locals progressed to Flakka seasons ago
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gangrenous
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

@Canberra Milk - what’s the technical definition of being behind someone for the offside rule? Is it entirely behind the player? One foot behind?
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Dr Zaius
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius »

I'm Bate Man wrote:I feel we’re back on the downward spiral, it’s sucks that is how I feel after tonight but I think it’s a Raiders fan thing.

I’m so disheartened after tonight. Image
Meh. I think that it's kind of a reflection of where we are in the pecking order. I wasn't suprised. If it's any consolation, I don't think that Penrith can play too much better than that, and we've got plenty of room for improvement in attack. Whether or not we do is another matter.
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Dr Zaius
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius »

gergreg wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:I wouldn't say no to Crawley coming back. Make it happen Donny
Agreed. Is he still at the Dragons?

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Head coach of Mackay Cutters currently. Given the QLD Cup isn't running, could we throw him a lifeline?
LastRaider
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2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by LastRaider »

GreenMachine wrote:
raiderskater wrote: August 8, 2020, 10:50 pm
GreenMachine wrote: August 8, 2020, 10:10 pm
amiafish wrote: August 8, 2020, 9:39 pm
Northern Raider wrote: August 8, 2020, 9:35 pm Panthers have a bad habit of coasting when they get on top. They aren't clinical like Roosters or Storm who don't relent when they have you on the ropes.
Our entire game-plan seems to be to "coast", unless and until we get three tries behind, in which case we have licence to actually play football. We cannot win finals footy playing this dour and lifeless brand of Rugby League.
Couldn’t have said it better.
Instead of attempting to have a go in attack from the start, we wait until it’s desperate times.
Anyway, we’re off the pace this year. Can’t be bothered getting upset to be honest.
We literally started the game with a 40/20 and a couple of repeat sets.

That's having a go for mine. It just unravelled after that.
Your missing the point.
All that early possession and nothing to show for it.
It seemed like we surprised ourselves with that start ( expecting to play a grinding game) and didn’t know what to do with the good field position in attack.
It’s as if we rigidly insist on grinding ignoring the chance to go or the throat immediately given despite the game being barely a minute old.
We’ve seen our instincts blunted with unnecessary insistence on grinding every game.
When was the last time we dominated a team and racked up a score? I genuinely can’t remember.
We never know what to do with good field position. We are terrible in attack period. The only hope at the moment is Williams kicks to find Croker.
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Dr Zaius
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius »

We've blown out from $10 to $15 at Sportsbet overnight
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pacman
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by pacman »

To be honest, I saw nothing different today to what I have the last month (if not longer). Only difference is today we versed an opposition that are at full strength and form. And we got demolished.

Woeful attack and coordination. And while some seem to overlook the poor efforts of some of our team because they do one good thing here or there, I can name many that have proven for another week why they are losing us games.

Sparks of brilliance is not a license to be **** majority of the time. And boy do we hinge our future on these sparks at the moment.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by TongueFTW »

I still don’t understand everyone’s focus on our attack when our defence in that first half was paper thin. They scored the first two times they were in our 20, both times essentially untouched. Turn them away on those occasions and the game is totally different. Premiership sides don’t concede 24 points in a half of football, no matter the opposition.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Rickmando »

TongueFTW wrote: August 9, 2020, 9:02 am I still don’t understand everyone’s focus on our attack when our defence in that first half was paper thin. They scored the first two times they were in our 20, both times essentially untouched. Premiership sides don’t concede 24 points in a half of football, no matter the opposition.
What’s not to understand? You’ve quoted a 15 minute sample size where the defence had a few bad sets, but we’ve seen months (if not years) of zero structure and potency in attack.

People wrapping the panthers for a game plan of kicking to CNK and Rapana and avoiding Cotric - how do you think that happens? The entire set is laid out in a way that opens up that kick on the 5th.

We just are playing one out hit-ups, with no idea where we want the football to go or whose hands we want it in.

Cleary played chess last night, Rick is playing checkers. And he’s playing checkers poorly
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Seiffert82
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Seiffert82 »

TongueFTW wrote: August 9, 2020, 9:02 am I still don’t understand everyone’s focus on our attack when our defence in that first half was paper thin. They scored the first two times they were in our 20, both times essentially untouched. Turn them away on those occasions and the game is totally different. Premiership sides don’t concede 24 points in a half of football, no matter the opposition.
I agree. As a premiership contender last season there were quite a few times we were under the pump early in games and repelled the opposition. For the entire season Penrith haven't conceded a point to anyone in the first 20 mins of a game. IMO, our biggest issue isn't the fact we didn't cross the line in the first 10, it's that we dropped our bundle after it.

We conceded some pretty soft tries on the back of errors and poor defensive reads. They crossed the line 4 times all game, we crossed twice and had two VERY CLOSE tries to Papalii and Williams denied by the bunker.

Our attack isn't firing on all cylinders, but our composure and lack of resolve in defence let us down in that game IMO. They blew us away with 30 mins of great football, but we weren't dominated for the entire match.
Last edited by Seiffert82 on August 9, 2020, 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GreenMachine
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by GreenMachine »

Rickmando wrote: August 9, 2020, 9:07 am
TongueFTW wrote: August 9, 2020, 9:02 am I still don’t understand everyone’s focus on our attack when our defence in that first half was paper thin. They scored the first two times they were in our 20, both times essentially untouched. Premiership sides don’t concede 24 points in a half of football, no matter the opposition.
What’s not to understand? You’ve quoted a 15 minute sample size where the defence had a few bad sets, but we’ve seen months (if not years) of zero structure and potency in attack.

People wrapping the panthers for a game plan of kicking to CNK and Rapana and avoiding Cotric - how do you think that happens? The entire set is laid out in a way that opens up that kick on the 5th.

We just are playing one out hit-ups, with no idea where we want the football to go or whose hands we want it in.

Cleary played chess last night, Rick is playing checkers. And he’s playing checkers poorly
Exactly. Well said.
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Gazman
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Gazman »

Scrolled through the pages and didn’t see any comments about the high shot on Croker.

Based on other games this week - Lewis tackle in dogs game was no worse, where was the sin bin?


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Bay53
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

Gazman wrote: August 9, 2020, 9:36 am Scrolled through the pages and didn’t see any comments about the high shot on Croker.

Based on other games this week - Lewis tackle in dogs game was no worse, where was the sin bin?


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It was an accidental high tackle. Penalty awarded. Move on.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

Dr Zaius wrote: August 9, 2020, 8:16 am We've blown out from $10 to $15 at Sportsbet overnight
Time to get on. We have a decent run home and no more back to back weeks with travel. Panthers can't play any better than they did in that first half. We can and will.
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Northern Raider
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Northern Raider »

Bay53 wrote: August 9, 2020, 9:58 am
Gazman wrote: August 9, 2020, 9:36 am Scrolled through the pages and didn’t see any comments about the high shot on Croker.

Based on other games this week - Lewis tackle in dogs game was no worse, where was the sin bin?


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It was an accidental high tackle. Penalty awarded. Move on.
Yep. Looked spectacular because his legs went up. Heaviest contact was below the neck. No sin bin warranted. Lewis was worse as he got Munster up under the chin. Heatherington was an old fashion stiff arm to the head and should have been sent off.
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afgtnk
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

We failed to score a single point after having six sets of six on the Panthers' line to start the game, yet people want to blame our defence. Please.

You don't win games against teams like that if you can only muster 12 points. We've focused on defence so much for the past one and a half years that it seems we've almost completely forgotten that there's another side to the game.
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Dr Zaius
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius »

Its reasonable to say that a period of lapse in defence cost us, but overall we have been one of the best defensive teams this year, and it's kept us in matches. Our attack has been disjointed all year.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by GreenMachine »

afgtnk wrote: August 9, 2020, 10:34 am We failed to score a single point after having six sets of six on the Panthers' line to start the game, yet people want to blame our defence. Please.

You don't win games against teams like that if you can only muster 12 points. We've focused on defence so much for the past one and a half years that it seems we've almost completely forgotten that there's another side to the game.
100% correct.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

We look like a team that has spent 2 years focussing on building everything off defence. Our team is set ip that way, the buys we make have focussed on that. We have a defensive FB, we bought Scott as a noted defender (argue him later but that was his wrap). And it worked last year but the game is different this year. Scores are probably 1 try higher and we just look like our system is never gonna find that 1 extra try. It's at capacity.

And as if we just get told, "Don't worry, the attack will come. Just build some combinations and the attack will flow, get out there and focus on what we do in defence." No actual guidance in how to attack.

It's painfully obvious at this stage of the season that we don't really have any set plays to run in the opposition 20- just a sweep and that's it. Panthers ran a perfect play for each 2nd rower and sliced through us with ease.

That's what a well drilled team with decent structured attack can do. When you get those right, you're a big chance to score. Then there's nothing stopping you playing the eyes up stuff too, or individual brilliance- you can get points from all of them. A balanced attack. Ours has zero structured threat. We rely on the latter two so we can squeak out 2-3 tries but rarely more vs a good team.

CNK carrying 4 people over the line shouldn't paper over that. The reason he has 4 blokes on his back is that every tackler can swarm him because every play does with him- they know the ball won't move on. Herculean effort to carry people over but we won't find as many tries with that long term as if he learns to just let the ball fly and back himself for a pass occasionally.

Without a major focus on improving that attack- with some good set plays we can run confidently, with an improved sweep where it doesn't end with CNK each time (put some cones out and make him straighten up running at the line, then pass at the red cone "line" for gawds sake) and that can compliment whatever else we find from Jack and George.

That would give me some hope.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Raiders666 »

God I wish Croker wasn't untouchable...He gets driven back everytime he gets the ball
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Off »

Im really struggling to believe that last year wasnt a dream or just a bradbury fluke.
This place is woke.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Off »

Im all for this season to be abandoned due to Covid.
This place is woke.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

Raiders666 wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:26 am God I wish Croker wasn't untouchable...He gets driven back everytime he gets the ball
He's always been at risk of getting dominated in tackles, but in the current days of big emphasis being on post-contact metres he's sticking out like a sore thumb. He's not exactly a lightweight either, he just doesn't have any drive through the line. My heart is in my mouth anytime he takes the ball up even remotely close to the sideline.

I can't think of a less threatening centre combination than he and Scott at the moment - they're giving us next to nothing.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by amiafish »

BadnMean wrote: August 9, 2020, 10:56 am We look like a team that has spent 2 years focussing on building everything off defence. Our team is set ip that way, the buys we make have focussed on that. We have a defensive FB, we bought Scott as a noted defender (argue him later but that was his wrap). And it worked last year but the game is different this year. Scores are probably 1 try higher and we just look like our system is never gonna find that 1 extra try. It's at capacity.

And as if we just get told, "Don't worry, the attack will come. Just build some combinations and the attack will flow, get out there and focus on what we do in defence." No actual guidance in how to attack.

It's painfully obvious at this stage of the season that we don't really have any set plays to run in the opposition 20- just a sweep and that's it. Panthers ran a perfect play for each 2nd rower and sliced through us with ease.

That's what a well drilled team with decent structured attack can do. When you get those right, you're a big chance to score. Then there's nothing stopping you playing the eyes up stuff too, or individual brilliance- you can get points from all of them. A balanced attack. Ours has zero structured threat. We rely on the latter two so we can squeak out 2-3 tries but rarely more vs a good team.

CNK carrying 4 people over the line shouldn't paper over that. The reason he has 4 blokes on his back is that every tackler can swarm him because every play does with him- they know the ball won't move on. Herculean effort to carry people over but we won't find as many tries with that long term as if he learns to just let the ball fly and back himself for a pass occasionally.

Without a major focus on improving that attack- with some good set plays we can run confidently, with an improved sweep where it doesn't end with CNK each time (put some cones out and make him straighten up running at the line, then pass at the red cone "line" for gawds sake) and that can compliment whatever else we find from Jack and George.

That would give me some hope.
Yep. Well put.

It's clear from reading this thread that the vast bulk of the board is essentially on the same page. Let's hope somebody in team management is thinking the same way. Otherwise, we're no higher than 5th...and deservedly so.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Motiv8dan »

Our lack of attacking potency is even more exposed now that Josh Hodgson is out, he controlled large portions of our direction and tempo.
One day the Raiders and the Cats win the same year and make my head explode!!
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

Question wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:30 am Im really struggling to believe that last year wasnt a dream or just a bradbury fluke.
If you look at our record before the finals last year it wasn’t that different. We finished 4th but the record against the top 6 was:

1st Melb 1 and 1
2nd Roosters 0 and 2
3rd Souths 0 and 1
5th Parra 1 and 1
6th Manly 0 and 2

By my reckoning that is 2 and 6 or 25%. Plenty of those we were in the game for much longer than last night, but it wasn’t a great record.

Didn’t stop us from playing 3 great games in the finals.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

Motiv8dan wrote: August 9, 2020, 12:02 pm Our lack of attacking potency is even more exposed now that Josh Hodgson is out, he controlled large portions of our direction and tempo.
Yet there were those who thought we were better off without him.
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gangrenous
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Bay53 wrote:
Question wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:30 am Im really struggling to believe that last year wasnt a dream or just a bradbury fluke.
If you look at our record before the finals last year it wasn’t that different. We finished 4th but the record against the top 6 was:

1st Melb 1 and 1
2nd Roosters 0 and 2
3rd Souths 0 and 1
5th Parra 1 and 1
6th Manly 0 and 2

By my reckoning that is 2 and 6 or 25%. Plenty of those we were in the game for much longer than last night, but it wasn’t a great record.

Didn’t stop us from playing 3 great games in the finals.
Looks more like 2 and 7...
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by woppadingo »

Well we came up against a team that is in roaring hot form and we got ambushed in the first half.
Maybe they took the foot off the pedal in the second half a bit but we did not go away and won the send half.
Given where we are at the moment I thinks its on par with how we have been playing the past 6 weeks. We are struggling for form but still putting in the effort. Im happy for the boys that they stuck in there and avoided an embarrassing loss.
From what I saw last night I still think we can win 6 out of our remaining 7 games. and with some time to improve our attack (hopefully) we will still give a good showing in the finals.
I dont think we are contenders but at the end I think we can still be proud of our team.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by amiafish »

afgtnk wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:41 am
Raiders666 wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:26 am God I wish Croker wasn't untouchable...He gets driven back everytime he gets the ball
He's always been at risk of getting dominated in tackles, but in the current days of big emphasis being on post-contact metres he's sticking out like a sore thumb. He's not exactly a lightweight either, he just doesn't have any drive through the line. My heart is in my mouth anytime he takes the ball up even remotely close to the sideline.

I can't think of a less threatening centre combination than he and Scott at the moment - they're giving us next to nothing.
Yep. In fact, we don't really have anyone in the back-line that is a guaranteed safe bet for post contact metres. Croker and Scott get rag-dolled almost every hit-up, but CNK also gets pushed backwards as often as not (the fact that he still makes so many metres every game is a testament to his heart and persistence). Cotric and Rapana are our best bets, but they both have a crabbing style that's susceptible to going wrong from time to time.

When you add it all up, the lack of punch from our backs coming out of defense is one of the reasons we are getting dominated territorially these days. We rarely get past half way coming off our line. We need to get some width off our line (a couple of passes will do it) so the defenses don't keep smashing us. It's hard to watch at times.
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Mickey_Raider »

afgtnk wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:41 am
Raiders666 wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:26 am God I wish Croker wasn't untouchable...He gets driven back everytime he gets the ball
He's always been at risk of getting dominated in tackles, but in the current days of big emphasis being on post-contact metres he's sticking out like a sore thumb. He's not exactly a lightweight either, he just doesn't have any drive through the line. My heart is in my mouth anytime he takes the ball up even remotely close to the sideline.

I can't think of a less threatening centre combination than he and Scott at the moment - they're giving us next to nothing.
I don’t have a vendetta against Croker. His goal kicking is back to being top class. I think he probably has a good footy brain and in the right circumstances can be effective.

But I am just concerned that with our noted deficiencies in attack we need more from our backline players than being a good goal kicker and solid at best.

Croker, Rapana, Cotric and Scott at the moment just don’t bring enough firepower or individual brilliance at the moment to compensate for Our lack of structure.
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Bay53
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Re: 2020 Rd 13 V Panthers: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

gangrenous wrote: August 9, 2020, 12:08 pm
Bay53 wrote:
Question wrote: August 9, 2020, 11:30 am Im really struggling to believe that last year wasnt a dream or just a bradbury fluke.
If you look at our record before the finals last year it wasn’t that different. We finished 4th but the record against the top 6 was:

1st Melb 1 and 1
2nd Roosters 0 and 2
3rd Souths 0 and 1
5th Parra 1 and 1
6th Manly 0 and 2

By my reckoning that is 2 and 6 or 25%. Plenty of those we were in the game for much longer than last night, but it wasn’t a great record.

Didn’t stop us from playing 3 great games in the finals.
Looks more like 2 and 7...
You are indeed correct.

I could say I was just testing you but I would be lying. I can’t add up!!
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