2020 Rd 5 V Tigers: Game Day

[greeneyed]

Jarrod Croker interview on The Sunday Footy Show:

Hangover since the Storm game? Would agree in one sense, but we were quite scrappy in Melbourne as well. We had some try savers in Melbourne, saved us. Last night we improved over the course of the match.

Defence is the main focus. Going into last season, we've always been known as an attacking team, we were good at it last year. It was scrappy last night, but good defensive teams win those sorts of games. Haven't played good footy the last few weeks, but got two wins. We want to be the best defensive side, and the best defensive sides tend to win.

Ricky Stuart, very passionate, bleeds green, do anything for the boys, the club, the jersey. Hard to get my head around the virtual Viking Clap, but we're lucky to have the footy back.

Baby due? Ready to go anytime, very excited. We have a bit of a plan, hopefully it will go fine. Having a boy.

[julian87]

Manly are paying $2.35 for next week. I'd be loading up on them after tonight's performance.

Suli and Tapau are out, which helps.

That is huge. Suli would be licking his lips at getting in between Williams and Scott. Turbo would have Scott coming in when he didn't need to very early on. With the threat of Suli out that should be much less of an issue.

Suli plays on the right anyway so he wouldn’t have opposed those players.

[Raiders666]

Tapau is expected to play

[GMGT]

There were plenty of worrying signs last night, and we can't let the fact we got the win gloss over these.

While our defence was quite solid overall, we seemed lost in attack for most of the match. We have strike right across the park and have no reason to struggle to score points.

We also struggled big time to get out of our own end and make metres for the majority of the contest which also shouldn't be happening considering the quality in our forward pack.

We must improve and improve fast. If we don't we will have a horror month and a lot of cracks will be exposed. Manly, eels, storm and roosters in 4 of our next 5 matches. This next little period could make or break our season. We have been playing no where near our best and still winning so if we improve and improve quickly we will be a good chance of winning a few of them.

[gangrenous]

The players taking a knee..

Bye.

Bye! Tell the 1950s we said hi when you arrive!

If staying around would make you communists mad...

Guys can we leave the insults out please
We all are entitled to our opinions and should not be critised for having one

No, you’re entitled to express your opinion. You’re not free from criticism.

[gangrenous]

The tigers were the better team yesterday imo
The first half wasn’t even up debate

Disagree on the first part. Tigers comfortably better in the first. Raiders comfortably better in the second.

[gangrenous]

CNK made it hard for us tonight. Has zero confidence under the high ball, isn't attacking the ball on kick returns... just surrendering. That was costing us 10 or 20 metres at the beginning of every set and allowing the Tigers defense to box us in. Made Rapana's job of first hit-up a nightmare all night. Hopefully Ricky and the boys can pump him up a bit... when he's on the front foot, he's a terrific player.

It really is shooting bambi, but cnk has had a very poor start to the year

I am biased because CNK is one of my favourites. But I think these assessments are a bit rough. Last night the conditions were very slippery and CNK is not huge. Going to ground early was much better strategically than trying to stay up against Tigers in numbers with no support behind you and risk being driven back in a lot of those cases.

Generally I think teams have found that you keep CNK quieter by belting him. Not always legally. Legal belting is a part of Rugby League so I’m not sure what the best counter strategy is on that.

[Raider Azz]

The players taking a knee..

Bye.

Bye! Tell the 1950s we said hi when you arrive!

If staying around would make you communists mad...

Guys can we leave the insults out please
We all are entitled to our opinions and should not be critised for having one

Sorry, but when your "opinion" is as bad as the one above you deserve all the criticism you get.

Just as you're allowed to have a garbage opinion, others are allowed to call you out for it

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

[greeneyed]

Thanks all, there's been an exchange on it, but we're now off topic. Further discussion of this issue should be on the substance and happen on the current affairs board, thanks.

[Botman]

The tigers were the better team yesterday imo
The first half wasn’t even up debate

Disagree on the first part. Tigers comfortably better in the first. Raiders comfortably better in the second.

I think even the second half they spent at least 20 minutes of it being the dominant team
The only thing that saved us was a team as talented as ours really only had to play 20-25 minutes of good footy to beat a team like the tigers

Imo they were the dominant team for at least 55 minutes of the game

[zim]

Manly are paying $2.35 for next week. I'd be loading up on them after tonight's performance.

Suli and Tapau are out, which helps.

That is huge. Suli would be licking his lips at getting in between Williams and Scott. Turbo would have Scott coming in when he didn't need to very early on. With the threat of Suli out that should be much less of an issue.

Suli plays on the right anyway so he wouldn’t have opposed those players.

Right you are. I did the switch incorrectly when I was thinking it through.

[gerg]

CNK made it hard for us tonight. Has zero confidence under the high ball, isn't attacking the ball on kick returns... just surrendering. That was costing us 10 or 20 metres at the beginning of every set and allowing the Tigers defense to box us in. Made Rapana's job of first hit-up a nightmare all night. Hopefully Ricky and the boys can pump him up a bit... when he's on the front foot, he's a terrific player.

It really is shooting bambi, but cnk has had a very poor start to the year

I am biased because CNK is one of my favourites. But I think these assessments are a bit rough. Last night the conditions were very slippery and CNK is not huge. Going to ground early was much better strategically than trying to stay up against Tigers in numbers with no support behind you and risk being driven back in a lot of those cases.

Generally I think teams have found that you keep CNK quieter by belting him. Not always legally. Legal belting is a part of Rugby League so I’m not sure what the best counter strategy is on that.

Agreed, I noticed at least two occasions where he copped a high shot and could have stayed down for a penalty but dragged himself to his feet.

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[greeneyed]

Packer facing thee-match ban

Wests Tigers prop Russell Packer faces a three-match suspension (two with an early plea) after being charged with a grade-three careless high tackle in his comeback to first grade against Canberra on Saturday night.

Packer, who had earlier been sin-binned, was placed on report for the 68th minute tackle on Raiders second-rower Joseph Tapine in his first NRL appearance since April, 2019.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/06/12/round-5-charges/

Lucky to get away with two.

[BadnMean]

A few thoughts...

CNK: somehow churned through 250 run metres in that muck. If that had been Trbo or Teddy they'd be praised from pillar to post in the media. Couple of drops this year (2nd year syndrome). Tbf Brooks bombs were very high, well placed and fiercely chased. We can expect the same from DCE and to counter, will have to do better as a team to protect and assist with shielding.

To give some perspective to people... CNK is averaging HALF as many errors per game as Trbo. Half. The list of FB's with more errors this season than CNK includes; Trbo, Holmes, DWZ, Gutherson, Papenhuyzen, Dufty etc etc etc. Oh- Teddy has less overall (by 1) but had played less games. RTS also has one less error, but he's RTS!

Being a FB is the toughest spot in the backs. You need to catch everything, pound the ball back into chasers at speed, absorb the punishment when a kick catches you no chance to move, chase the ball in support all day and add spark to the attack. He's run 250m and yeah he's dropped a couple this year. But actually dropped less than the next bloke doing the job. This reminds me of the "Oh Cotric isn't playing well" crap last year- watch the replays, he blitzed it.

You know, that's probably enough thoughts for today.

[gangrenous]

I always enjoy your thoughts Badnmean. Keep ‘em coming.

[gangrenous]

The tigers were the better team yesterday imo
The first half wasn’t even up debate

Disagree on the first part. Tigers comfortably better in the first. Raiders comfortably better in the second.

I think even the second half they spent at least 20 minutes of it being the dominant team
The only thing that saved us was a team as talented as ours really only had to play 20-25 minutes of good footy to beat a team like the tigers

Imo they were the dominant team for at least 55 minutes of the game

From Through Green Eyes:
“The Raiders finished the match with a 52 per cent share of possession - with the Green Machine enjoying 55 per cent of possession and territory in the second half. Canberra's completion rate (85 per cent, Tigers 77 per cent) improved on last week, and was critical to the victory. The Raiders completed 41 of 48 sets, compared with 34 of 44 sets for the Tigers. Both teams made 10 errors, but the Tigers conceded more penalties (10-6).

The Raiders made more runs (182-176), running metres (1653-1506) and post contact metres (785-579). Metres per set were roughly the same (34 metres), while the Tigers made more kick return metres (222-170). There was not much difference between the teams in line breaks (Raiders 1-0), offloads (Raiders 6-5) and tackle breaks (Tigers 32-28). The Raiders produced more kicking metres (746 from 24 kicks, compared with 602 metres from 20 kicks) and got two line drop outs (Tigers nil). The Raiders were better in defusing kicks this week (90 per cent, just 64 per cent for the Tigers).

The Tigers had to make more tackles (431-344), but had the better effective tackle rate (92.5 per cent, 89.6 per cent for the Raiders). Canberra missed a few more tackles (32-28), while ineffective tackles were about even (Raiders 8, Tigers 7). “

Those statistics don’t talk to a team that was clearly inferior across 60 minutes of the game. Tigers won a couple of the less meaningful stats. The rest are all in favour of the Raiders. Tigers had to make almost 90 more tackles!

[BadnMean]

I always enjoy your thoughts Badnmean. Keep ‘em coming.

That's because I'm always spot #$%en on.

Except when I'm way @#$*en off.

[twistedbydesign]

I thought in the to and fro of the game (the grind, if you like) it was pretty even, perhaps even the Tigers had a small ascendancy over the 80. In a game with just a solitary line break any judgement over which team was better is splitting hairs, we should just be thankful that we made a couple of nice plays which proved enough.

As others have noted, the next few weeks will give us a better idea of where we're at - Manly will be very tough next week.

Our lack of punch in attack is hard to overlook from the last two weeks. Havili had a good night I thought, but highlights that we seem to be lacking a bit of leg speed in the forwards with Bateman out. I honestly think I would play Oldfield over Simonsson in the bench role, simply for the reason that he can pinch hit in the backrow as required and is a much more powerful runner early in sets. I would also like to see us vary our play a bit out of our own half and try to move the opposition around a bit with some wider passes from dummy half and a forward off the hip of Williams/Wighton. Cam Smith's performance against the Knights was a masterclass in this respect.

2 points in the bank, on to next week.

[Botman]

The tigers were the better team yesterday imo
The first half wasn’t even up debate

Disagree on the first part. Tigers comfortably better in the first. Raiders comfortably better in the second.

I think even the second half they spent at least 20 minutes of it being the dominant team
The only thing that saved us was a team as talented as ours really only had to play 20-25 minutes of good footy to beat a team like the tigers

Imo they were the dominant team for at least 55 minutes of the game

From Through Green Eyes:
“The Raiders finished the match with a 52 per cent share of possession - with the Green Machine enjoying 55 per cent of possession and territory in the second half. Canberra's completion rate (85 per cent, Tigers 77 per cent) improved on last week, and was critical to the victory. The Raiders completed 41 of 48 sets, compared with 34 of 44 sets for the Tigers. Both teams made 10 errors, but the Tigers conceded more penalties (10-6).

The Raiders made more runs (182-176), running metres (1653-1506) and post contact metres (785-579). Metres per set were roughly the same (34 metres), while the Tigers made more kick return metres (222-170). There was not much difference between the teams in line breaks (Raiders 1-0), offloads (Raiders 6-5) and tackle breaks (Tigers 32-28). The Raiders produced more kicking metres (746 from 24 kicks, compared with 602 metres from 20 kicks) and got two line drop outs (Tigers nil). The Raiders were better in defusing kicks this week (90 per cent, just 64 per cent for the Tigers).

The Tigers had to make more tackles (431-344), but had the better effective tackle rate (92.5 per cent, 89.6 per cent for the Raiders). Canberra missed a few more tackles (32-28), while ineffective tackles were about even (Raiders 8, Tigers 7). “

Those statistics don’t talk to a team that was clearly inferior across 60 minutes of the game. Tigers won a couple of the less meaningful stats. The rest are all in favour of the Raiders. Tigers had to make almost 90 more tackles!

Those stats are rather surprising and you’re right, they aren’t of a team who typically was clearly inferior for most the game, but that’s exactly what i saw

I watched that game and felt like the raiders were constantly coming off their own line in attack, when they got into the red zone, had no real plan and were being frustrated by an enthusiastic and committed tigers team
In defence I felt we held our own

This game could have very easily gone the other way... Nofo’s foot being out a tenth of a second before the put down, Tapine coming in very late to save a try on Chee Kam (i think it was) and a blatantly incorrect call to award Tapine a penalty which lead directly to one of our tries

This is not a tigers team a premiership contender should have to win ugly over. Imo the only reason the tigers lost was they didn’t have creativity in the halves. Luke Brooks was virtually non existent (try aside)

I say again, imo, the tigers were the dominant team for most of that game.

[GreenMachine]

Game of 2 halves really and the reality is being the better side, we can manage to win these sort of matches, notwithstanding how poor we were...

On the CNK performance, wow we are harsh if we’re criticising his performance (250m run meters) and tonnes of tough carries.

He’s the least of our problems right now...the softness of our middle defence and the ease at which teams roll upfield is way more of a worry in my opinion.

[Pete Cash]

Post contact metres we hammered them and it really started showing in the second half. Very noticeable with the bench forwards. Sutton and Guler were vastly better than the tigers bench players. Papalii wasn't at his best but he started to get a good roll on too.

Of course those 70m of post contact metres from Rapana add up. I know Scott has been criticised for some puzzling reads in D but he worked really hard last night with the ball. 19 runs 130m and 67 post contact metres is really good work rate from centre.

[gangrenous]

The tigers were the better team yesterday imo
The first half wasn’t even up debate

Disagree on the first part. Tigers comfortably better in the first. Raiders comfortably better in the second.

I think even the second half they spent at least 20 minutes of it being the dominant team
The only thing that saved us was a team as talented as ours really only had to play 20-25 minutes of good footy to beat a team like the tigers

Imo they were the dominant team for at least 55 minutes of the game

From Through Green Eyes:
“The Raiders finished the match with a 52 per cent share of possession - with the Green Machine enjoying 55 per cent of possession and territory in the second half. Canberra's completion rate (85 per cent, Tigers 77 per cent) improved on last week, and was critical to the victory. The Raiders completed 41 of 48 sets, compared with 34 of 44 sets for the Tigers. Both teams made 10 errors, but the Tigers conceded more penalties (10-6).

The Raiders made more runs (182-176), running metres (1653-1506) and post contact metres (785-579). Metres per set were roughly the same (34 metres), while the Tigers made more kick return metres (222-170). There was not much difference between the teams in line breaks (Raiders 1-0), offloads (Raiders 6-5) and tackle breaks (Tigers 32-28). The Raiders produced more kicking metres (746 from 24 kicks, compared with 602 metres from 20 kicks) and got two line drop outs (Tigers nil). The Raiders were better in defusing kicks this week (90 per cent, just 64 per cent for the Tigers).

The Tigers had to make more tackles (431-344), but had the better effective tackle rate (92.5 per cent, 89.6 per cent for the Raiders). Canberra missed a few more tackles (32-28), while ineffective tackles were about even (Raiders 8, Tigers 7). “

Those statistics don’t talk to a team that was clearly inferior across 60 minutes of the game. Tigers won a couple of the less meaningful stats. The rest are all in favour of the Raiders. Tigers had to make almost 90 more tackles!

Those stats are rather surprising and you’re right, they aren’t of a team who typically was clearly inferior for most the game, but that’s exactly what i saw

I watched that game and felt like the raiders were constantly coming off their own line in attack, when they got into the red zone, had no real plan and were being frustrated by an enthusiastic and committed tigers team
In defence I felt we held our own

This game could have very easily gone the other way... Nofo’s foot being out a tenth of a second before the put down, Tapine coming in very late to save a try on Chee Kam (i think it was) and a blatantly incorrect call to award Tapine a penalty which lead directly to one of our tries

This is not a tigers team a premiership contender should have to win ugly over. Imo the only reason the tigers lost was they didn’t have creativity in the halves. Luke Brooks was virtually non existent (try aside)

I say again, imo, the tigers were the dominant team for most of that game.

We’ll have to agree to disagree then. Because the Raiders were very clearly the stronger side in the second half in my opinion and the stats agree with me.

It’s not impossible for the stats to say that and it not be the case. But it’s not likely.

[Botman]

[Northern Raider]

I agree with Gangers because he disagrees with Botman.

[BadnMean]

I watched that game and felt like the raiders were constantly coming off their own line in attack, when they got into the red zone, had no real plan and were being frustrated by an enthusiastic and committed tigers team
In defence I felt we held our own

I felt exactly the same when I watched it live- that we were claustrophobically unable to get out of our 20 and not doing much/a rabble in attack.

Watching the replay it was a much more even game. Yes, Tigers had moments they could have gotten right back into it but somehow they were repelled or denied. Effort and scramble and the odd lucky break. Good teams have relied on that for many, many tight wins.

But we weren't terrible either- given the conditions. It wasn't a game for free flowing Raiderball. Our Poms know precisely how to win in games like that- a bit muddy/slippery and greasy. There won't be many breaks so you have to be hard at every collision, kick very well, chase very well and scrap it out. Tiges were still in it because they kicked so well and chased so well. They made us earn it.

Time to set the line. The scrappiness mostly came from Jack throwing wild passes and we take what we get from Jack, some weeks those stick and we romp home. The other scrappiness came from Hodgo getting caught with the ball 3 or 4 times on the 5th. In those conditions getting caught running on the 5th on the opposition 2m line isn't a bad result. Time to set your line and better than giving away territory pushing a kick or pass that can rebound into a break or 7 tackle (zero regather knock on). He did it once too often for my liking too but I'd forgive a couple.

The other thing I noticed was Charnze was a but more lively in attack than he got credit for. He made two little mini breaks- the pirouette and 25m scoot down the sideline and a kick rebound regather where he beats the first line and steals 30m before the cover comes. In a game with no real breaks he looked the most likely.

We didn't capitalise- on that I agree with Ennis we needed to identify the scattered spot attack again straight away off the back of those, not take a settler. I think on video they will recognise that- it may well be a change from last year where you had to be more patient in cracking a team vs this year once you smell blood, go for a quicker kill.

[GMGT]

A few thoughts...

CNK: somehow churned through 250 run metres in that muck. If that had been Trbo or Teddy they'd be praised from pillar to post in the media. Couple of drops this year (2nd year syndrome). Tbf Brooks bombs were very high, well placed and fiercely chased. We can expect the same from DCE and to counter, will have to do better as a team to protect and assist with shielding.

To give some perspective to people... CNK is averaging HALF as many errors per game as Trbo. Half. The list of FB's with more errors this season than CNK includes; Trbo, Holmes, DWZ, Gutherson, Papenhuyzen, Dufty etc etc etc. Oh- Teddy has less overall (by 1) but had played less games. RTS also has one less error, but he's RTS!

Being a FB is the toughest spot in the backs. You need to catch everything, pound the ball back into chasers at speed, absorb the punishment when a kick catches you no chance to move, chase the ball in support all day and add spark to the attack. He's run 250m and yeah he's dropped a couple this year. But actually dropped less than the next bloke doing the job. This reminds me of the "Oh Cotric isn't playing well" crap last year- watch the replays, he blitzed it.

You know, that's probably enough thoughts for today.

If anyone is bagging CNK for a couple of dropped balls they have rocks In their head. I'm pretty sure they are his first couple of errors since way back in his debut game. If he has dropped any since his debut it has only been one or two.

[simo]

Cnk made 250m in that game? Well my comment seems stupid then. Genuinely feel like hes been off hIs game. Maybe its just his game style is changing and its me thats off.

[Botman]

Cnk made 250m in that game? Well my comment seems stupid then. Genuinely feel like hes been off hIs game. Maybe its just his game style is changing and its me thats off.

He's been well off his best imo. He's been error prone and his positioning has not been as it was last year... i think the surrendering and not attacking off kick returns is a product of the errors. He knows he making too many and seems reluctant to try to do much with it on kick returns.
Those metres do speak volumes about his fitness and willingness to get involved. It gives him a very high floor in terms of his level of play

I think CNK and Hodgson has had a poor fortnight, but im pretty confident they'll bounce back... hopefully this week against Manly

[amiafish]

CNK's total numbers are good, but it's the impact per play that's the problem right now. He's always going to give 100%...love his heart. But at the moment, he's taking soft options (e.g. taking high balls low down, sometimes even while lying prone on the ground; allowing the ball to bounce rather than taking it on the full; letting low rolling balls pass him rather than risk a knock-on; surrendering in tackles rather than trying to poke through and get a quick play-the-ball etc.). Taken in isolation, each of these can be parsed as justifiable conservative play in the context of a grinding game where error avoidance is at a premium, but taken in its totality, CNK is just not feeling it at the moment.

There's no reason that he can't turn this around quickly, but just like a cricketer who's afraid of playing a shot that gets him out, it's a bit of a self-perpetuating thing that's occurring. The more conservative he gets, the less capacity he has to break out and play freely. I think the coaching staff need to give him a bit of love and effectively tell him that it's ok if he spills the ball a few times and/or gets driven back trying to attack the line hard...as long as he gives it a red hot go. Does confidence come from playing well, or do you play well because you're confident? Chicken and egg. But he needs to fake it until he makes it, as a first step. No more conservative play CNK! Have a go champ, we believe in you.

[BadnMean]

He's averaging 1 error per game... As a FB who touches the ball more often than any other player, under more duress... Have a a look at what the top tier FB's error rate is... Maybe all those intangibles you guys mention about taking bombs too low (he cauught a lot in weird ways last year too) or going too low into the line to avoid chance of defenders lifting him back or whatever are true, hard to say...

But I am officially "good grief"ing for the first time this season.

[RichmondRaider]

The CNK hate is a huge beat up

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

[Botman]

He's averaging 1 error per game... As a FB who touches the ball more often than any other player, under more duress... Have a a look at what the top tier FB's error rate is... Maybe all those intangibles you guys mention about taking bombs too low (he cauught a lot in weird ways last year too) or going too low into the line to avoid chance of defenders lifting him back or whatever are true, hard to say...

But I am officially "good grief"ing for the first time this season.

All 5 of them have been in the last 2 games... again, he's been well off his best in the last fortnight.

[simo]

there is no, and never will be, CNK "hate"

[Botman]

Exactly, its not hate, no one hates CNK... its just pointing out he's been off his game the last fortnight. I dont think anyone thinks that will last

[BJ]

I’m a huge fan of CNK, but he’s definitely not been at his best since the return.

But he’ll get there.