Ricky Stuart says changes could help game become less defence oriented

[Neeeegz]

6 again rule
Are they taking the **** or what ?

[Neeeegz]

[Northern Raider]

Pretty sure they trialled that 6 Again rule for ruck infringements several years ago in an All Stars game. Nobody really liked it and it was scrapped.

[Azza]

I cannot believe how dumb the NRL can be.

[Northern Raider]

Also are they allowed to signal 6 again then change their mind?

[gerg]

I cannot believe how dumb the NRL can be.

You must be the new intern? Welcome to the NRL.

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[BJ]

I agree that the refs under the current rules haven’t managed to stop the wrestle, so I have some understanding of the need for rule change.

But gee I’m certainly concerned the six again rule will be used to help teams come from behind with referees assistance at the back end of games.


Some teams will create new unintended consequences with the rule change. Cameron Smith and Melbourne Storm I’m looking at you.

[-PJ-]

I don't like this.

This smells like a dumpster fire.

[gerg]

Ummmm they could .... You know... have some sort of referee crackdown if they really want to clean up the ruck. So dumb.

When they did that it was actually starting to work. We were starting to see more attacking football. Storm and Roosters were struggling a little to adapt and most teams were looking like developing their own (almost unique) styles of football. But 9 decided we the fans, prefer to watch a boring wrestling, grinding style of play.

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[Northern Raider]

Ummmm they could .... You know... have some sort of referee crackdown if they really want to clean up the ruck. So dumb.

When they did that it was actually starting to work. We were starting to see more attacking football. Storm and Roosters were struggling a little to adapt and most teams were looking like developing their own (almost unique) styles of football. But 9 decided we the fans, prefer to watch a boring wrestling, grinding style of play.

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That's exactly what happened. Refs got tough on ruck infringements. Ch9 didn't like the number of penalties and all we heard was constant whinging from commentators. Instead of pointing the finger at the players for breaking the rules they targeted the refs for enforcing them.

[Sid]

Ummmm they could .... You know... have some sort of referee crackdown if they really want to clean up the ruck. So dumb.

When they did that it was actually starting to work. We were starting to see more attacking football. Storm and Roosters were struggling a little to adapt and most teams were looking like developing their own (almost unique) styles of football. But 9 decided we the fans, prefer to watch a boring wrestling, grinding style of play.

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That's exactly what happened. Refs got tough on ruck infringements. Ch9 didn't like the number of penalties and all we heard was constant whinging from commentators. Instead of pointing the finger at the players for breaking the rules they targeted the refs for enforcing them.

SOSF, it's not like Referees should hold X amount of tickets for penalties they can give out during a game, more onus needs to be on the players to not break the rules. So long as the referees are consistent for what they are awarding penalties for, it shouldn't matter if the game penalty count is 5, 15 or 25

[Northern Raider]

Ummmm they could .... You know... have some sort of referee crackdown if they really want to clean up the ruck. So dumb.

When they did that it was actually starting to work. We were starting to see more attacking football. Storm and Roosters were struggling a little to adapt and most teams were looking like developing their own (almost unique) styles of football. But 9 decided we the fans, prefer to watch a boring wrestling, grinding style of play.

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That's exactly what happened. Refs got tough on ruck infringements. Ch9 didn't like the number of penalties and all we heard was constant whinging from commentators. Instead of pointing the finger at the players for breaking the rules they targeted the refs for enforcing them.

SOSF, it's not like Referees should hold X amount of tickets for penalties they can give out during a game, more onus needs to be on the players to not break the rules. So long as the referees are consistent for what they are awarding penalties for, it shouldn't matter if the game penalty count is 5, 15 or 25

But that makes too much sense.

[Botman]

The problem is the moment we have a Friday night game with 30 penalties, all anyone in the papers, airwaves and tv shows will talking about how they ruined the game... and the NRL has typically jumped at those shadows

Where their answer should simply be "Our officials didnt ruin the game, the players did so by repeatedly infringing. And they'll continue to ruin games whilst ever it happens. If we have to blow 50 penalties a game, so be it. To the coaches and players we simply say - Your move."

[yeh raiders]

The problem is the moment we have a Friday night game with 30 penalties, all anyone in the papers, airwaves and tv shows will talking about how they ruined the game... and the NRL has typically jumped at those shadows

Where their answer should simply be "Our officials didnt ruin the game, the players did so by repeatedly infringing. And they'll continue to ruin games whilst ever it happens. If we have to blow 50 penalties a game, so be it. To the coaches and players we simply say - Your move."

I supported the crackdown for the most part, until it became too exhausting to watch and listen to. I just gave up caring. I nearly threw the remote through the TV when Sterlo tried to argue that a defensive player penalised was not involved in the play ... that player in question had literally completed the tackle.

The crackdown worked to a degree, but right now I want quick play of the ball as a priority. Not flat passes being called forward, the 20/40 rule or 7 tackle sets...

And during this isolation period where we’ve seen a lot of classic matches replayed, it becomes even more apparent just how destructive wrestling is to the sport of Rugby League.

If this new “6 again” rule works, great. If not, have the guts to stand up and try something else.

[BJ]

This new rule change would have been a perfect time to introduce the equal but opposite no penalty (but instead a handover) if the attacking team didn’t touch the ball with their foot or walked off the mark.

This would have added balance to the no penalty rule change and also put some onus on the attacking team to clean up their side of the ruck.

[Seiffert82]

Yeah, I thought the 2 ref system was just starting to kick in more effectively and the product was improving. Not sure why we are taking a backwards step.

Hiding penalties by changing them to a 6 again rule is confusing and window dressing the underlying issue.

Meanwhile, as the penalty count is technically reduced, the ruck will get messier as there is less focus on it from the refs. How is that a better product?

[Botman]

These rule changes are going to be important for us to consider
They are significant and potentially could derail a team who is build to win in the wrestle... I hope the club is preparing to adjust their style if needed.

[pickles]

I think the 6 again rule change is a good one although referees still need to be able to penalise if they feel it is warranted.

Often tuck infringements are a deliberate tactic to slow momentum of an attacking team as the defending team scrambles back and a penalty actually kills the momentum and allows the defensive team to reset.

If used properly it should actually make the game flow better by keeping the ball in play for longer and increasing the benefit of momentum for attacking teams.

It is also a much smaller decision to call 6 again than a penalty so we should see more pulled up.

It will take a while to settle in but I think it’s a positive change for the game.

[Zip Zip]

What the hell us going on? V’Landys is an absolute cowboy, these decisions are absolutely insane.

Never mind that he’s doing it against the majority wishes and with no testing and announcing them two weeks before the season restarts from a totally unprecedented situation. A complete and utter cowboy.

Two referees were brought in for very specific reasons. The speed has increased a lot in the past decade and the refs now get more information in their ears than they can handle. You want to lump MORE on them? This is going to be a ****. Completely ruins the integrity of the comp to do this now.

He’s going to destroy rugbaleeg.

[Zip Zip]

Further, The six again decisions may stop tactical infringements (it won’t) but it is also going to give the refs even less chance to catch their breath, leading to even more inconsistency. I’m dumbfounded and quite furious about this.

[Northern Raider]

I think the 6 again rule change is a good one although referees still need to be able to penalise if they feel it is warranted.

Often tuck infringements are a deliberate tactic to slow momentum of an attacking team as the defending team scrambles back and a penalty actually kills the momentum and allows the defensive team to reset.

If used properly it should actually make the game flow better by keeping the ball in play for longer and increasing the benefit of momentum for attacking teams.

It is also a much smaller decision to call 6 again than a penalty so we should see more pulled up.

It will take a while to settle in but I think it’s a positive change for the game.

Thats exactly the concept in theory. Whether it works in practice needs to be determined. My main concern is we've seen it in the past where teams will give away penalties to kill momentum rather than get caught back peddling. If there is no threat to field position as a result of the infringement then teams might be inclined to test the limits further, particularly early in the tackle count.

[yurithe1]

These rule changes are going to be important for us to consider
They are significant and potentially could derail a team who is build to win in the wrestle... I hope the club is preparing to adjust their style if needed.

I forget who it was, but they came out in the paper and said this would assist the Raiders because of the way our players peal off in the ruck. He was dead against it.

Then, there's this on The Sportress:

https://sportress.wordpress.com/2020/05 ... ScktIrUv88

[BadnMean]

It will be a bit of a lottery as we don't yet know how the refs will interpret the ruck under the new system either.

So we have 3 variables;

1. The way the refs police/interpret the ruck. Will the "lower" penalty of a 6 again make them use it more liberally or will they miss things because they are back running the 10 and players will get away with more?

2. The new rules themselves. We've never seen a game with so many 6 agains, which may have drastic changes to possession flow or the way players behave. Will they dread giving it away or push the boundaries. Given the ability to tire a defence without a break (as a normal penalty w kick for touch would allow) then it may end up even more dangerous than a traditional penalty as they can pile up the fatigue real fast if you drop a ball without a scrum in there amongst repeat sets too.

3. The way coaches will adapt. We don't know how coaches will think of ways to manipulate it both before the season just from theorising and then who/how coaches will adapt once they've seen it in play. It will evolve.

Given that you have no chance to adjust your squad to the new style I don't know how anyone at this stage can have any idea how these changes will affect the game. I'm not a fan. It just makes more chances fans put an asterisk next to this season. I don't think half baked rule changes are a good idea.

[FuiFui BradBrad]

NRL referees' union lodges complaint to Fair Work Commission after cut to match officials

The union representing NRL referees has lodged a dispute notice with the Fair Work Commission over the league's plans to move from two match referees to one.

The Australian Rugby League Commission (ARLC), which governs the NRL, announced last night only one on-field referee would be used for the rest of the season.

Read more: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-14/ ... k/12248350

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-re ... d558e3694f

[gerg]

From what I understand of the 6 again rule and GE will no doubt correct me if I have it wrong. But there is 'referees discretion' involved on whether to award 6 again or a penalty.

If there is 10 seconds left on the clock, attacking team is 5 metres out from the tryline and 1 or 2 points behind. Defending side just lays all over the player until the fulltime siren goes. Does the referee award a penalty or is he even allowed to call 6 again if the siren sounds - not by the rulebook.

Referee rules fulltime, commentators and coach blowup. Two weeks later the exact same thing occurs in a similar situation and the referee awards a penalty.

This will totally happen in rugba leig, you just know it.

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[greeneyed]

From what I understand of the 6 again rule and GE will no doubt correct me if I have it wrong. But there is 'referees discretion' involved on whether to award 6 again or a penalty.

If there is 10 seconds left on the clock, attacking team is 5 metres out from the tryline and 1 or 2 points behind. Defending side just lays all over the player until the fulltime siren goes. Does the referee award a penalty or is he even allowed to call 6 again if the siren sounds - not by the rulebook.

Referee rules fulltime, commentators and coach blowup. Two weeks later the exact same thing occurs in a similar situation and the referee awards a penalty.

This will totally happen in rugba leig, you just know it.

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"Referees will retain the right to issue a full penalty and place players in the sin bin for persistent ruck infringements and professional fouls."

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/05/13/arl ... on-update/

[greeneyed]

NRL's referee changes could affect spectacle
Laurie Daley

WHO would be an NRL referee? Suddenly the toughest job in rugby league became a whole lot tougher, or at least that's my view after two crucial decisions from the powers-that-be this week.

Both changes would have a significant impact if they were implemented individually. Combine them and launch them both at the same time, and I worry about how they will affect the game as a spectacle.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14274

[gerg]

From what I understand of the 6 again rule and GE will no doubt correct me if I have it wrong. But there is 'referees discretion' involved on whether to award 6 again or a penalty.

If there is 10 seconds left on the clock, attacking team is 5 metres out from the tryline and 1 or 2 points behind. Defending side just lays all over the player until the fulltime siren goes. Does the referee award a penalty or is he even allowed to call 6 again if the siren sounds - not by the rulebook.

Referee rules fulltime, commentators and coach blowup. Two weeks later the exact same thing occurs in a similar situation and the referee awards a penalty.

This will totally happen in rugba leig, you just know it.

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"Referees will retain the right to issue a full penalty and place players in the sin bin for persistent ruck infringements and professional fouls."

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/05/13/arl ... on-update/

So yes, another **** minefield of a grey area for the referees to navigate.

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[greeneyed]

Will the Canberra Raiders be one of the teams hardest hit by controversial NRL rule changes?

According to Fox Sports Lab, big gun premiership favourites Penrith, Manly, Canberra, Melbourne and back-to-back premiers the Roosters will need to be vigilant in the way they operate around the ruck area. Those are the teams that gave away the most penalties for ruck infringements last year.

Meanwhile, the Rabbitohs stand to be one of the clubs who benefit the most given the way NSW and Australian hooker Damien Cook can jump and run out of dummy-half.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 407b392e72

[Lui_Bon]

Hey GE, because you posted the fox article I'm addressing that, but I wonder how much rubbish is involved in the idea that a team that gives away ruck penalties is actually going to suffer from this new rule? If you reckon you can tackle the opposition's attack to death, this is great - they won't even get the chance to take the two! In fact they can just waft the ball up and down the line until we crunch them and take it off them!

And to Gergreg and Yuri (and the article from Sportress that Yuri linked), my question - not to you people specifically - is How does the ref know whether it's a 6 again or just a penalty? What if the attacking team wants to take the 2 - do they have to use a captain's challenge if the bamford waves for another 6 and they're in front of the posts with the game on the line?

In general, I fail to see how an exhausted ref can keep making good decisions if he's already knackered and has to keep waving play on to make sure that everyone else is exhausted too. especially when he or she has to use discretion to decide whether an "infringement" is actually a "breach of the rules". I reckon Vlandys has stuffed this. It will work really well until suddenly it doesn't.

[gerg]

Hey GE, because you posted the fox article I'm addressing that, but I wonder how much rubbish is involved in the idea that a team that gives away ruck penalties is actually going to suffer from this new rule? If you reckon you can tackle the opposition's attack to death, this is great - they won't even get the chance to take the two! In fact they can just waft the ball up and down the line until we crunch them and take it off them!

And to Gergreg and Yuri (and the article from Sportress that Yuri linked), my question - not to you people specifically - is How does the ref know whether it's a 6 again or just a penalty? What if the attacking team wants to take the 2 - do they have to use a captain's challenge if the bamford waves for another 6 and they're in front of the posts with the game on the line?

In general, I fail to see how an exhausted ref can keep making good decisions if he's already knackered and has to keep waving play on to make sure that everyone else is exhausted too. especially when he or she has to use discretion to decide whether an "infringement" is actually a "breach of the rules". I reckon Vlandys has stuffed this. It will work really well until suddenly it doesn't.

Referee discretion.

I've blathered on about trying to make the job easier for referees many times on this site. Removing a referee and adding another grey area (at the same time) is utter madness.

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[greeneyed]

Hey GE, because you posted the fox article I'm addressing that, but I wonder how much rubbish is involved in the idea that a team that gives away ruck penalties is actually going to suffer from this new rule? If you reckon you can tackle the opposition's attack to death, this is great - they won't even get the chance to take the two! In fact they can just waft the ball up and down the line until we crunch them and take it off them!

And to Gergreg and Yuri (and the article from Sportress that Yuri linked), my question - not to you people specifically - is How does the ref know whether it's a 6 again or just a penalty? What if the attacking team wants to take the 2 - do they have to use a captain's challenge if the bamford waves for another 6 and they're in front of the posts with the game on the line?

In general, I fail to see how an exhausted ref can keep making good decisions if he's already knackered and has to keep waving play on to make sure that everyone else is exhausted too. especially when he or she has to use discretion to decide whether an "infringement" is actually a "breach of the rules". I reckon Vlandys has stuffed this. It will work really well until suddenly it doesn't.

This was my crystal ball gazing on the issue: viewtopic.php?p=1728736#p1728736

I don’t support the shift, at least not until it’s properly trialled.

[greeneyed]

Coaches will never have the good of the game as their first priority: Canberra Raiders mentor Ricky Stuart unloads

Ricky Stuart has taken aim at the self-interest of his coaching counterparts and backed the NRL’s controversial rule changes, fearful the game will become "boring" without intervention.

"I'll support what Peter and the commission are trying to achieve, because I don’t like the way our game is heading," Stuart said. "Personally it goes against what I think rugby league should be about. The game is heading down the path of becoming too defence-orientated and boring. We are at a very critical point at this moment, and we need to make the game more entertaining, and future-proof it for our next generation.

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/coache ... 54t4c.html

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 29f6e72639

Canberra Raiders coach Ricky Stuart backs ARLC following NRL rule change

Canberra Raiders coach Ricky Stuart has slammed "self-interest" among his rivals and called on them to throw their weight behind a bold bid to make rugby league more attractive.

"The coaches will never have the good of the game as their first priority, it's always self-interest. I'm glad the commission have shown strength and gone about making a decision for what they think is best for the game.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14280

[greeneyed]

Probably a good move from Ricky... believes there should two refs... but gets on board with the new direction from the new chair.

[Lui_Bon]

Thanks Gergreg and GE - btw I have a vague idea I was at that Broncos Seiffert game - you've both described the problems with the new regime better than I could.

Also, I understand that the single ref will be backed up by highly professional "other" refs from their 22-person panel as touch judges. The touchies from last season were just employed on a casual basis so VLandys has thrown them under the covid bus to save some pitiful sum. Poor people won't even get Jobseeker probably. Rugby League, the game of the working man and the downtrodden. I'm losing a bit of faith in this bloke. Has he taken a pay cut?