Papalii says family reasons behind flu injection stance

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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by -PJ- »

This is purely a decision on religious beliefs right ?

I ask this because we have a few others with Moari/Polynesian backgrounds who I'm guessing have had a flu shot..

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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Bay53 »

Timbo wrote: May 7, 2020, 1:30 pm This also makes me question all the charity work Sia has done as being incredibly irresponsible.

Imagine if he’d visited your kid who has cancer in hospital and today you’re finding out he’s an anti-vaxxer.

The flu can kill a kid with leukaemia. But hey, muh beliefs and opinions!
I think this is a very unfair comment and reflective of what we are likely to see where current standards are used to re-write history.

I would estimate that 95% of the players in the NRL didn’t get the flu shot in 2019 and no one thought worse of them for it. NRL players would not have been considered in the vulnerable category in the past. There were definitely no restrictions or protocols that anyone entering a hospital was required to have had a flu shot. The government only provided financial assistance to cover the cost for a select handful of the community although many employers also covered the cost. Perhaps NRL players were in this category.

Anti-vaxxer arguments are normally about children not getting the vaccinations for things like measles, rubella etc not flu shots for adults.

Clearly there won’t be things like hospital visits this year, but in future years it may well be that 90+% of the population have a flu shot, so refusal may be seen as a reason to stay away but please don’t try to apply 2020 standards to past years.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Botman »

RTW wrote: May 7, 2020, 2:15 pm I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if it has been mentioned but didn’t Hopoate try and refuse to play on Sundays a few years back on religious grounds.

He may have missed one or two games but when push came to shove he miraculously changed his mind.
I think he played an entire season under that contract, and the games he missed were simply a scheduling break. He was contracted and it was agreed by both parties that he wouldnt play on sundays
He signed an extension during the next off season and that clause was removed.

Playing or not playing on Sunday's is a choice and one that impacts no one else but the player and club. Immunisations are a different matter, particularly in this time, where they are trying to reestablish the competition, and save the clubs from going under and the jobs that will go with it, as well as allow the NRL players, many whom i doubt had saved for this rainy day, to get back to work and paying their bills.

I dont think these situations are one in the same
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Wiki Special »

Timbo wrote: May 7, 2020, 3:08 pm
Wiki Special wrote: May 7, 2020, 2:18 pm Ridiculous stance if reports are true. Sign the waiver boys. I am not up on the supposed religious aspect of this to comment on that. If that is legitimate we must respect it. But, if I am to be honest, my gut is telling me it is just being used as an excuse to support their anti-vacc views. Much like Latrell and The Foxx used culture as an excuse for breaking social distancing laws.
What utter ****.

The only thing that protects people with genuine medical conditions that prevent them from being able to get vaccines is herd immunity.

Belief in a sky fairy should not mean you get to endanger the life of others and I ‘have to respect it’.

I call it what it is. An ignorant, entitled, selfish decision from three people I have gone from being huge fans of to having no respect whatsoever for in the space of a day.
I am actually in agreeance with you. The comment you highlighted was me simply saying that I have no idea about their personal religious beliefs and what that means in relation to a flu shot. And if you continued reading I then say I think it is BS.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote:
RTW wrote: May 7, 2020, 2:15 pm I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if it has been mentioned but didn’t Hopoate try and refuse to play on Sundays a few years back on religious grounds.

He may have missed one or two games but when push came to shove he miraculously changed his mind.
I think he played an entire season under that contract, and the games he missed were simply a scheduling break. He was contracted and it was agreed by both parties that he wouldnt play on sundays
He signed an extension during the next off season and that clause was removed.

Playing or not playing on Sunday's is a choice and one that impacts no one else but the player and club. Immunisations are a different matter, particularly in this time, where they are trying to reestablish the competition, and save the clubs from going under and the jobs that will go with it, as well as allow the NRL players, many whom i doubt had saved for this rainy day, to get back to work and paying their bills.

I dont think these situations are one in the same
They’re not the same, but they’re similar and as you argue there’s more pressure here for them to cave.

Really disappointed in the approach to this, particularly the petulance in crossing out medical fact if true. All three should be stood down if that’s the choice they want to make. Which is a shame because I don’t think the Raiders can win a premiership without Sia and Papalii.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by -TW- »

Sia probably, Papalii definitely not

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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Timbo »

Wiki Special wrote: May 7, 2020, 3:28 pm
Timbo wrote: May 7, 2020, 3:08 pm
Wiki Special wrote: May 7, 2020, 2:18 pm Ridiculous stance if reports are true. Sign the waiver boys. I am not up on the supposed religious aspect of this to comment on that. If that is legitimate we must respect it. But, if I am to be honest, my gut is telling me it is just being used as an excuse to support their anti-vacc views. Much like Latrell and The Foxx used culture as an excuse for breaking social distancing laws.
What utter ****.

The only thing that protects people with genuine medical conditions that prevent them from being able to get vaccines is herd immunity.

Belief in a sky fairy should not mean you get to endanger the life of others and I ‘have to respect it’.

I call it what it is. An ignorant, entitled, selfish decision from three people I have gone from being huge fans of to having no respect whatsoever for in the space of a day.
I am actually in agreeance with you. The comment you highlighted was me simply saying that I have no idea about their personal religious beliefs and what that means in relation to a flu shot. And if you continued reading I then say I think it is BS.
My apologies. This is a subject I feel very strongly about. I have family members that due to physiological conditions are unable to take vaccines. The thought of one of them getting sick, becoming disabled or dying because an ignorant fool decided a thousand year old book means they shouldn’t have to take a vaccine makes my blood boil more than any other topic.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by BJ »

Broncos player wouldn’t play on Sunday’s for religious reasons.

However he didn’t miss a single game.

Imagine if Friday nights was the sabbath.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by greeneyed »

Sports doctor backs Canberra Raiders trio to play NRL

AFL media personality and sports doctor Peter Larkins says NRL players shouldn't be banned from playing if they don't have an influenza injection.

"You can enforce personal hygiene issues and make sure they wash their hands ... but you can't enforce a player to have the 2020 influenza vaccine in order to participate in the season. It's highly recommended because the flu is a very severe flu in 2020 - 2019 was one of the worst years ever for the flu.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by yurithe1 »

I've just read the section of the waiver that the payers have crossed out. It's basically asking them to agree to something they don't actually believe. I'm not a lawyer, but I think if they had signed the intact waiver, then they would be guilty of a making a false declaration or utterance.

This could have been avoided if it read, "1. I acknowledge that the NRL and my employer believe that..."

The full waiver is at https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/the-se ... 54qqc.html
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

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NRL agrees to amend waiver as anti-vaxxers get permission to continue playing

The protest from the NRL players who took issue with the sport's vaccination policy has forced the governing body's hand, with the code on Thursday agreeing to amend the waiver that players had been modifying. The NRL, after a lengthy ARL Commission meeting, has decided against the blanket banning of players from competing in 2020, on the proviso they agree to signing an amended waiver.

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/the-se ... 54qqc.html

https://7news.com.au/sport/rugby-league ... -c-1023147

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/nrl-rules- ... fc2c4c9870

David Polkinghorne on Twitter
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@RaidersCanberra to be sent a reworded waiver with hope @kidceezar @joshpapalii and Joe Tapine will sign tonight and can train tomorrow. Raiders yet to see wording... #nrl

https://twitter.com/Super_Couch/status/ ... 8581713920

Can play if an updated waiver is signed

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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Botman »

yurithe1 wrote: May 7, 2020, 4:32 pm I've just read the section of the waiver that the payers have crossed out. It's basically asking them to agree to something they don't actually believe. I'm not a lawyer, but I think if they had signed the intact waiver, then they would be guilty of a making a false declaration or utterance.

This could have been avoided if it read, "1. I acknowledge that the NRL and my employer believe that..."

The full waiver is at https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/the-se ... 54qqc.html
The points highlighted in yellow are facts. They are no opinions or thoughts, they are no theories.
They are facts

If you are not socially distancing, there are increased health risks re: COVID19. You cant social distance whilst playing and training RL.
The chances of contracting influenza are greater if you are unvaccinated.
If you do get influenza your immune system IS compromised and it DOES in fact make you more susceptible to contracting other illness, including but not limited to COVID19
If you do contract COVID19 and Influenza at the same time you are absolutely at greater risk to become very sick.

None of that is up for debate or discussion, they are physiological facts. The players can choose not to believe it, belief is irrelevant when it comes to facts. I can believe the Raiders won the 2019 NRL Grand Final. I can believe that with every ounce of my being, but the facts remain that they didnt.

The NRL is asking the players to sign a document that confirms they have been provided with the facts, and that in event where they wish to remain ignorant of those facts, the NRL wont be liable in the event that a player contracts COVID19 and it results in serious illness or death.

It is now up to the players who want to ignore science to assume the financial risks. Or, not play NRL football until the playing and training environment risks are mitigated. And again, those decisions rest with the players and the ramifications of them.

Dont want the jab? Dont get it. Sign the waiver.
Dont want to sign the waiver? Dont sign it. Dont play, dont get paid.

See you in 2021, maybe 2022. Hope you've got healthy savings account or have other life skills to fall back on to generate income.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by gangrenous »

-TW- wrote:NRL agrees to amend waiver as anti-vaxxers get permission to continue playing

The protest from the NRL players who took issue with the sport's vaccination policy has forced the governing body's hand, with the code on Thursday agreeing to amend the waiver that players had been modifying. The NRL, after a lengthy ARL Commission meeting, has decided against the blanket banning of players from competing in 2020, on the proviso they agree to signing an amended waiver.

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/the-se ... 54qqc.html

https://7news.com.au/sport/rugby-league ... -c-1023147

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/nrl-rules- ... fc2c4c9870

David Polkinghorne on Twitter
@Super_Couch

@RaidersCanberra to be sent a reworded waiver with hope @kidceezar @joshpapalii and Joe Tapine will sign tonight and can train tomorrow. Raiders yet to see wording... #nrl

https://twitter.com/Super_Couch/status/ ... 8581713920

Can play if an updated waiver is signed

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That’s garbage. They shouldn’t have backed down. I’m sick of people being able to opt out of facts.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Manbush »

Sorry to nitpick Botman but since Coronavirus and flu’s are caused by germs it would fall under germ theory but since a theory is as close as science gets to facts being a theory is a good thing.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by gangrenous »

If you want to take that line then nothing is a fact. Let’s be **** sensible please Manbush.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Timbo »

Absolutely pathetic.

There should be no exemptions.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by -PJ- »

So what happens now ?

Larry, Mo and Curly will be strongly advised to sign the amended waiver and get on with it ?
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Manbush »

gangrenous wrote: May 7, 2020, 5:14 pm If you want to take that line then nothing is a fact. Let’s be **** sensible please Manbush.
Theories are as good as facts was my point.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by yurithe1 »

Botman wrote: May 7, 2020, 4:45 pm
yurithe1 wrote: May 7, 2020, 4:32 pm I've just read the section of the waiver that the payers have crossed out. It's basically asking them to agree to something they don't actually believe. I'm not a lawyer, but I think if they had signed the intact waiver, then they would be guilty of a making a false declaration or utterance.

This could have been avoided if it read, "1. I acknowledge that the NRL and my employer believe that..."

The full waiver is at https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/the-se ... 54qqc.html
The points highlighted in yellow are facts. They are no opinions or thoughts, they are no theories.
They are facts

If you are not socially distancing, there are increased health risks re: COVID19. You cant social distance whilst playing and training RL.
The chances of contracting influenza are greater if you are unvaccinated.
If you do get influenza your immune system IS compromised and it DOES in fact make you more susceptible to contracting other illness, including but not limited to COVID19
If you do contract COVID19 and Influenza at the same time you are absolutely at greater risk to become very sick.

None of that is up for debate or discussion, they are physiological facts. The players can choose not to believe it, belief is irrelevant when it comes to facts. I can believe the Raiders won the 2019 NRL Grand Final. I can believe that with every ounce of my being, but the facts remain that they didnt.

The NRL is asking the players to sign a document that confirms they have been provided with the facts, and that in event where they wish to remain ignorant of those facts, the NRL wont be liable in the event that a player contracts COVID19 and it results in serious illness or death.

It is now up to the players who want to ignore science to assume the financial risks. Or, not play NRL football until the playing and training environment risks are mitigated. And again, those decisions rest with the players and the ramifications of them.

Dont want the jab? Dont get it. Sign the waiver.
Dont want to sign the waiver? Dont sign it. Dont play, dont get paid.

See you in 2021, maybe 2022. Hope you've got healthy savings account or have other life skills to fall back on to generate income.
The problem is that they do not agree that these are facts. If they signed, they would be falsely claiming to agree with something that they do not. I haven't seen the amended wording, but I still think they must immunise.

The waiver absolves the NRL and the clubs from anything that might happen to these blokes. It doesn't magically provide protection to the other players should this group actually get the flu or a COVID 19 mutation.

So, for me, it's no jab, no play.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Bay53 »

Timbo wrote: May 7, 2020, 5:17 pm Absolutely pathetic.

There should be no exemptions.
You are arguing for something that wasn’t what the NRL was putting up. They have never said that you must have the flu shot to be allowed to play, they have said you must sign the form.

That form has now been reproduced in the SMH article. The only item that should have been in the form is point e where you state you have read the information sheet. Points a to d seem to summarise the information sheet, meaning you had to sign that you agree with the information sheet. The NRL has quite rightly now said the requirement is for you to read the information, they can’t make you agree or disagree with it.

Plenty will agree with your “no jab, no play” argument and that is fair enough, in many ways I agree with that too. However that was not the issue at hand.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by BJ »

Gravity is only a scientific ‘theory’.

I suggest those who regularly don’t believe in scientific theories to test the theory by jumping off a cliff.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by raiderskater »

I'm really upset about this, but I'm most gutted about Sia. I thought he was a good person, the sort of player I wanted to keep to be a role model to the youngsters.

It's not just about them. You get the shot to protect others. I get it to protect my vulnerable grandparents, not myself. In this case, it's also about protecting their teammates. The selfishness is absurd. I'm shattered.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Northern Raider »

So what was the problem with the original waiver and how has it been amended?
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Leebola »

Storm in a tea-cup. Don't want the flu shot, don't get it. Get sick from flu? Oh well, personal choice in action.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by -PJ- »

Northern Raider wrote: May 7, 2020, 6:12 pm So what was the problem with the original waiver and how has it been amended?
It didn't say pretty please..the amended waiver says pretty please..
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NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by BJ »

Be interesting whether Anti Vaxers will take a Covid vaccine if it proves safe and successful.

My guess is a fair proportion won’t suddenly be quite so against vaccinations if it can protect themselves and their kids.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by greeneyed »

Northern Raider wrote: May 7, 2020, 6:12 pm So what was the problem with the original waiver and how has it been amended?
There was nothing wrong in the original waiver. We don't know precisely how it has been amended... but are led to believe that the players have read an NRL information sheet.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Dr Zaius »

Timbo wrote:I wonder if Joe ‘Pentecostals can’t have chemicals in their body’ Tapine had anaesthetic last time he had surgery? Or anti-biotics when they were done to fight infection.

**** hypocrite.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Boomercm »

Toviii wrote: May 6, 2020, 10:48 pm They should be stood down. It sounds like all they had to do was sign a liability form, acknowledging they are at increased risk of influenza if they do not get the vaccination.
Agreed.

The crossing out of the line was childish. They weren't forced to get the shot, just sign a form. ****. They should be stood down and forced to do high school science.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Boomercm »

BJ wrote: May 7, 2020, 6:24 pm Be interesting whether Anti Vaxers will take a Covid vaccine if it proves safe and successful.

My guess is a fair proportion won’t suddenly be quite so against vaccinations if it can protect themselves and their kids.
Anti-vaxxers believe the whole COVID response is a conspiracy to help big pharma and force them to get vaccinated. No way will they submit to their big pharma overlords.
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by Dr Zaius »

yurithe1 wrote:I've just read the section of the waiver that the payers have crossed out. It's basically asking them to agree to something they don't actually believe. I'm not a lawyer, but I think if they had signed the intact waiver, then they would be guilty of a making a false declaration or utterance.

This could have been avoided if it read, "1. I acknowledge that the NRL and my employer believe that..."

The full waiver is at https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/the-se ... 54qqc.html
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Re: Raiders stars protest as NRL considers banning players

Post by DarkRaider »

Bay53 wrote: May 7, 2020, 3:07 pm
Timbo wrote: May 7, 2020, 1:30 pm This also makes me question all the charity work Sia has done as being incredibly irresponsible.

Imagine if he’d visited your kid who has cancer in hospital and today you’re finding out he’s an anti-vaxxer.

The flu can kill a kid with leukaemia. But hey, muh beliefs and opinions!
I think this is a very unfair comment and reflective of what we are likely to see where current standards are used to re-write history.

I would estimate that 95% of the players in the NRL didn’t get the flu shot in 2019 and no one thought worse of them for it. NRL players would not have been considered in the vulnerable category in the past. There were definitely no restrictions or protocols that anyone entering a hospital was required to have had a flu shot. The government only provided financial assistance to cover the cost for a select handful of the community although many employers also covered the cost. Perhaps NRL players were in this category.

Anti-vaxxer arguments are normally about children not getting the vaccinations for things like measles, rubella etc not flu shots for adults.

Clearly there won’t be things like hospital visits this year, but in future years it may well be that 90+% of the population have a flu shot, so refusal may be seen as a reason to stay away but please don’t try to apply 2020 standards to past years.
According to Phil Gould in his podcast, for a long time it’s actually been standard procedure for every player at every NRL club to get the shot.

No doubt there’d be refusals every year and so the clubs would have had a fair idea that this was coming from certain players.
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Dr Zaius »

I'm incredibly disappointed in these three players, and the NRL for backing down. I'm shattered that Sia is one of the three.

I've seen children die, or suffer life long injury or disability from vaccine preventable diseases, including influenza. People need to understand that vaccination is not just about protecting the individual but our most vulnerable members of society.

In the midst of a pandemic when millions of people are out of work, and Mum and Dad businesses have been shut down, there is considerable concern at a societal and government level at allowing a business that involves close personal contact with dozens of people resume. To gain exception to return to business, the NRL had to present a biosecutrity plan to minimise risk to the players and the community. Influenza kills young, fit people. Influenza and Covid together are potentially deadly. An outbreak of influenza in the NRL we see it shut down until Covid is excluded and finally, we do not need an influenza outbreak putting strain on our healthcare system at a time we may face outbreaks of Covid.

Based on the NRLs biosecurity plan, the Federal and NSW government have allowed the competition to resume. Rather than being grateful for being allowed to return to their privileged position of being highly paid to play footy at a time when many people are out of work, they have acted like petulant children. I do believe that people in clinical care areas should be required to have the influenza vaccine, else be reassigned to non-clinical areas. I can live with NRL players not being mandated to be vaccinated even in a pandemic. But they were given an out, sign a waver. For some reason they have objected to the statement that the influenza vaccine lowers the risk of influenza on the basis of religious grounds. That does not make sense. SIGN THE **** FORM YOU **** SIMPLETONS.

I know an anti-vaxxer when I see one, and I see one in Bryce Cartwright. His tweets are straight from the anti-vaxx handbook. I woudn't feed him. I'm absolutely amazed by Sia and Josh, given that measles decimated Samoa last year. There are few things in life that I'm more passionate about than my Raiders, but vaccination is one. I honestly don't think that I can support these players anymore.
Last edited by Dr Zaius on May 7, 2020, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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-PJ-
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by -PJ- »

Well said Doc.

All of it.
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Botman
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Re: NRL makes landmark call on Canberra Raiders trio

Post by Botman »

indeed. Very well said, Doc.
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