Botman wrote: ↑July 8, 2020, 5:24 pm
Nothing gutsy about that Mahomes deal
This is a guy just finished his 2nd year as a starter who’s already a sb mvp, league mvp and almost broke the season passing td record
If he sees that deal out as it is today, within 6 years of that deal his yearly average will be considered a bargain
(Also it won’t, that deal will be re-done 3-4 times in the 12 years to convert existing money into gtd money and prorate that’s over the length of the deal to create cap space... side note, the nfl salary cap is extremely complicated and interesting)
What happens if he blows out his knee next season, can they write it off the books?
I thought the NFL cap is around $200m. Haven't they just handed a third of that to one player? In a squad of 53. Seems like a slightly risky move to me.
Dunno, I guess any long term deal for young players are a calculated risk. Especially when you need to retain a functional team around them.
Ahh that’s the joy of nfl contracts
Of the reported 500m usd reported in the deal, only 140mil of it is guaranteed for injury
So if he blows out his knee tomorrow at training and has to have his leg cut off, they’re only on the hook for 140m
Fair enough. The NRL should be more transparent like that regarding injury payments and their cap implications.
I'm not sure how his contract is structured per season, but if it's in the order of US$50m per season, it's still a quarter of the cap, and you still have to sign 50 odd other players! It's almost like paying someone in the NRL $2.5m per season and our squad is half the size.
Botman wrote: ↑July 8, 2020, 5:24 pm
Nothing gutsy about that Mahomes deal
This is a guy just finished his 2nd year as a starter who’s already a sb mvp, league mvp and almost broke the season passing td record
If he sees that deal out as it is today, within 6 years of that deal his yearly average will be considered a bargain
(Also it won’t, that deal will be re-done 3-4 times in the 12 years to convert existing money into gtd money and prorate that’s over the length of the deal to create cap space... side note, the nfl salary cap is extremely complicated and interesting)
What happens if he blows out his knee next season, can they write it off the books?
I thought the NFL cap is around $200m. Haven't they just handed a third of that to one player? In a squad of 53. Seems like a slightly risky move to me.
Dunno, I guess any long term deal for young players are a calculated risk. Especially when you need to retain a functional team around them.
Ahh that’s the joy of nfl contracts
Of the reported 500m usd reported in the deal, only 140mil of it is guaranteed for injury
So if he blows out his knee tomorrow at training and has to have his leg cut off, they’re only on the hook for 140m
Fair enough. The NRL should be more transparent like that regarding injury payments and their cap implications.
I'm not sure how his contract is structured per season, but if it's in the order of US$50m per season, it's still a quarter of the cap, and you still have to sign 50 odd other players! It's almost like paying someone in the NRL $2.5m per season and our squad is half the size.
Anyway, time will tell how it works out for them.
Can you please take this conversation over the NFL thread with those other sad people.
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zim wrote: ↑July 8, 2020, 12:56 pm
Should be "unwilling for more than 3 years".... but 750k? **** me do not match that please.
Seems a strange line then, considering it also says Cotric is only looking for a three year deal.
So Cotric wants 3 years, Bulldogs and Raiders have offered three years, Bulldogs won't offer more than 3 years. That's great, because he's not asking more more than 3.
Seems straightforward, but it's not quite that simple.
I believe the sticking point is that he would actually have to play for the Bulldogs for 3 years.
Dunno about that. Dogs have been paying guys like Klemmer and Mbye for years without having to play for them.
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Botman wrote: ↑July 8, 2020, 5:24 pm
Nothing gutsy about that Mahomes deal
This is a guy just finished his 2nd year as a starter who’s already a sb mvp, league mvp and almost broke the season passing td record
If he sees that deal out as it is today, within 6 years of that deal his yearly average will be considered a bargain
(Also it won’t, that deal will be re-done 3-4 times in the 12 years to convert existing money into gtd money and prorate that’s over the length of the deal to create cap space... side note, the nfl salary cap is extremely complicated and interesting)
What happens if he blows out his knee next season, can they write it off the books?
I thought the NFL cap is around $200m. Haven't they just handed a third of that to one player? In a squad of 53. Seems like a slightly risky move to me.
Dunno, I guess any long term deal for young players are a calculated risk. Especially when you need to retain a functional team around them.
Ahh that’s the joy of nfl contracts
Of the reported 500m usd reported in the deal, only 140mil of it is guaranteed for injury
So if he blows out his knee tomorrow at training and has to have his leg cut off, they’re only on the hook for 140m
Fair enough. The NRL should be more transparent like that regarding injury payments and their cap implications.
I'm not sure how his contract is structured per season, but if it's in the order of US$50m per season, it's still a quarter of the cap, and you still have to sign 50 odd other players! It's almost like paying someone in the NRL $2.5m per season and our squad is half the size.
Anyway, time will tell how it works out for them.
Can you please take this conversation over the NFL thread with those other sad people.
zim wrote: ↑July 8, 2020, 12:56 pm
Should be "unwilling for more than 3 years".... but 750k? **** me do not match that please.
Seems a strange line then, considering it also says Cotric is only looking for a three year deal.
So Cotric wants 3 years, Bulldogs and Raiders have offered three years, Bulldogs won't offer more than 3 years. That's great, because he's not asking more more than 3.
Seems straightforward, but it's not quite that simple.
I believe the sticking point is that he would actually have to play for the Bulldogs for 3 years.
Dunno about that. Dogs have been paying guys like Klemmer and Mbye for years without having to play for them.
Touche!
Add Foran to the list. Man they've had some specials.
I'm skeptical the Dogs offer is really 750k/3. Might be a bit of managerism going on. If it's true then it's just the same error the Dogs have made for the past 5 years again and again.
I suspect he'll stay, unless he wants to sample the bright lights and beaches of Sydney.
I think we could go to 600k or so if he stays a rep player and be a win-win. I think that'd be good value for all parties.
Don and RIcky might add the advice that he is likely to stay a rep player running in the Raiders set up vs if running off Lewis and Cogger and losing the $100/$150k per year he'd be making for rep duties...
Laurie Daley is right. Any winger signing for $750k at a club which is running 16th (that's last) and at a club which has no spine, should expect a very hard three years ahead.
For 250k more per year...when you factor in post tax figure, higher amount to manager, higher cost of living in Sydney, more than likely no rep money coming in. Is it really worth it? Imagine the pressure the kid would be feeling.
It’s easy to look at the $$$. Regardless of it being the Raiders and us fans expecting him to stay loyal. But surely you’d prefer to be playing for a successful club over that rabble?
Is playing on the outside of Jack **** Cogger and Lachlan **** Lewis really that enticing? Really?
Article on Fox Sports saying Dogs are offering $600k.
Hard to know what to believe. If its is $600k and Raiders are $500k then its harder to see him making the move. Take into account tax and increased cost of living in Sydney the extra $100k doesn't end up that much. As pointed out in the article he also risks his representative pay packets by playing for a bottom team.....and realistically one that doesn't make their wingers stand out. Miss out on Origin selection next year and that pay increase has disappeared completely. When you add it all up he could be worse off by taking a bigger contract.
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Article on Fox Sports saying Dogs are offering $600k.
Hard to know what to believe. If its is $600k and Raiders are $500k then its harder to see him making the move. Take into account tax and increased cost of living in Sydney the extra $100k doesn't end up that much. As pointed out in the article he also risks his representative pay packets by playing for a bottom team.....and realistically one that doesn't make their wingers stand out. Miss out on Origin selection next year and that pay increase has disappeared completely. When you add it all up he could be worse off by taking a bigger contract.
He would've made close to 100k just in rep payments and potential contract bonuses last season. Had he not become injured, that would've been higher. No way would anyone in the right mind be risking that.
Article on Fox Sports saying Dogs are offering $600k.
Hard to know what to believe. If its is $600k and Raiders are $500k then its harder to see him making the move. Take into account tax and increased cost of living in Sydney the extra $100k doesn't end up that much. As pointed out in the article he also risks his representative pay packets by playing for a bottom team.....and realistically one that doesn't make their wingers stand out. Miss out on Origin selection next year and that pay increase has disappeared completely. When you add it all up he could be worse off by taking a bigger contract.
He would've made close to 100k just in rep payments and potential contract bonuses last season. Had he not become injured, that would've been higher. No way would anyone in the right mind be risking that.
Add to that the sponsorship and endorsement value of a guy like Cotric as a NSW /Roos player would be higher as well. Then again, if he has only played one origin maybe he doesn't like to factor rep payments in as a "guaranteed" factor in either case.
I had a feeling the 750k was made up. 600k sounds like a more real world offer to lure a strike centre from a club who needs a tentpole signing.
Raiders should be able to get close enough to that. If playing centre was a thing he was dying to do, he'd be lining up at centre for us already with Scott dropped (it would have made more sense with Oldy on the wing that vice versa).
Raiders offer star winger five years — but he could still be lured to Dogs
NSW State of Origin winger Nick Cotric has been offered a five-year contract to remain at the Canberra Raiders but is still weighing up a $1.8 million three-year deal to switch to Canterbury-Bankstown.
While the Green Machine have come in heavy with a $2.5 million deal, the Bulldogs are continuing to work behind-the-scenes on trying to convince the Blues representative winger to switch to Belmore.
Mickey_Raider wrote: ↑July 9, 2020, 5:15 pm
On this one, are the Raiders being:
a) too ruthless (go on, budge up a little);
b) not ruthless enough (500k is too much); or
c) about the right level of ruthless?
I vote (c).
They're offering security, continuity, and the realistic prospect of rep and Premiership honours, and once tax has been taken into consideration, Cotric's not out of too much coin either. It's a good deal for both parties I think.
I reckon $500k is about right for a top notch winger. They are almost the most important players outside of the spine.
In would have those thought the Raiders could increase the back end of a 5 year deal a bit of maybe up it by a few hundred K with genuine rep bonuses to reward good form. Bridge the gap to the Bulldogs offer a bit.
Good to see the $750k was a figment of someone's imagination. That sounded ridiculous.
Maybe a dollar or two high and maybe a year long, but nothing we can't live with, I'd reckon.
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If we are offering 2.5m over 5 years and the Dogs are offering 1.8m over 3 then he should jump at our offer. It's such a no brainer it makes me doubt the numbers.
I’m less concerned about the money than the years
3, maybe 4 years and 500k is about right
If the difference is 100k a year, that’s nothing to be sneezed at but as others have said, the potential rep bonuses missed pretty much takes him there
edwahu wrote: ↑July 9, 2020, 5:28 pm
If we are offering 2.5m over 5 years and the Dogs are offering 1.8m over 3 then he should jump at our offer. It's such a no brainer it makes me doubt the numbers.
100%.
$500k is the rate for top wingers and 5 years is really unbelievable security.
I’m less concerned about him leaving if these facts prove correct.
Botman wrote: ↑July 9, 2020, 6:16 pm
I’m less concerned about the money than the years
3, maybe 4 years and 500k is about right
If the difference is 100k a year, that’s nothing to be sneezed at but as others have said, the potential rep bonuses missed pretty much takes him there
Money about right. But if we lose Cotric over shifting up to 50k a season more, we were silly.
Hopefully we are flexible and say 5 years, last 2 years in players option. Or offer 3 or 5 years. That way he doesn't feel as if he's a superstar under a much increased cap in years 4-5 that he's getting unders.
5 years at $500k is a terrible deal for Cotric. Salary cap is going to keep increasing and he will be locked in. No wonder he is looking for a shorter deal!
greeneyed wrote: ↑July 9, 2020, 6:20 pm
And the difference in the cost of living.
It certainly adds to the cost, but i honestly dont think many players consider that when potentially making a move like
Yes the cost of living increases but that is offset by perceived (right or wrong, we've done this dance many times before, no need to rehash it) quality of life improvements.
As others above have said, we've made a good offer here, it's strong given his market imo. We should stick on that and if it's good enough great, and if not, with a very heavy heart, so be it.
greeneyed wrote: ↑July 9, 2020, 6:20 pm
And the difference in the cost of living.
It certainly adds to the cost, but i honestly dont think many players consider that when potentially making a move like
Yes the cost of living increases but that is offset by perceived (right or wrong, we've done this dance many times before, no need to rehash it) quality of life improvements.
As others above have said, we've made a good offer here, it's strong given his market imo. We should stick on that and if it's good enough great, and if not, with a very heavy heart, so be it.
The thing I am confident these days is that our money is worth the same as any other club. That hasn’t always been the case.
LastRaider wrote: ↑July 9, 2020, 9:23 pm
5 years at $500k is a terrible deal for Cotric. Salary cap is going to keep increasing and he will be locked in. No wonder he is looking for a shorter deal!
Not sure there will be a massive increase in the salary cap over the next five years. The broadcast deal is locked in and doesn’t increase much and I can’t see sponsorship money pouring in any more than in does now.
greeneyed wrote: ↑July 9, 2020, 6:20 pm
And the difference in the cost of living.
It certainly adds to the cost, but i honestly dont think many players consider that when potentially making a move like
Yes the cost of living increases but that is offset by perceived (right or wrong, we've done this dance many times before, no need to rehash it) quality of life improvements.
As others above have said, we've made a good offer here, it's strong given his market imo. We should stick on that and if it's good enough great, and if not, with a very heavy heart, so be it.
And lets not forget the significant deterioration in the quality of life.
In a 5 year deal, i would think given the current climate and the impacts of COVID on the world economy, stagnation of the salary cap for the next 2 seasons at least would be a best case scenario.
Most salary cap leagues have their cap tied to revenue and they're all trying to figure out how to appraoach this from a competitive stand point when the revenue and thus the cap is very likley to decrease...i think the best way to manage it is to smooth it over by staying status quo for probably 2-3, maybe 4 years and let the economics catch up, but we'll see
Certainly i cant imagine any player or agent is negotiating a deal right now with the expectations of cap increases
