Referees versus Raiders

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Turt
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Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

Let me start by saying this is not a referee bash post. Last year my son became a referee in the junior competition and it me look at the NRL referee's more closely. I decided to work out a rating system. I found it interesting and thought I might share it.

I've Made it a bit clearer - Positive is good, negative is bad. Numbers in the brackets are the number of games

There is a weighting for past years earning less points. I've currently gone back to 2015 and will try to keep going.

Cavet: I am not saying that any referee's are biased. The win/loss ratio is the result of how the Raiders play. This is just for a bit of fun.

Grant Atkins (22) - 2.47
Gavin Badger (8) - 4.88
Chris Butler (12) - -(1.625)
Adam Cassidy (3) - 2
Matt Cecchin (16) - -(1.029)
Ben Cummins (13) - -(1.33)
Adam Gee (16) - -(1.027)
Peter Gough (6) - -(3.066)
Phil Henderson (5) - -(1.4)
Liam Kennnedy (2) - 1
Ashley Klein (27) - -(1.58)
Dave Munro (17) - 3.637
Henry Perenara (20) - -(1.17)
Ziggy Przeklasa-Adamski (5) - -(1.4)
Tim Roby (7) - 3.6
Todd Smith (1) - 1
Jon Stone (6) - -(1.230)
Chris Sutton (15) - 1.152
Gerald Sutton (7) - -(1.479)
Last edited by Turt on July 29, 2020, 11:29 am, edited 14 times in total.
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greeneyed
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

Not sure I understand what the numbers mean. I’m not surprised the Raiders have won less with Cummins and Gerard Sutton though.


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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Finchy »

Should it not list how many games they've actually refereed the Raiders for? Some might have refereed 50 games, others only 2. It skews the results.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

It's a work in progress. I'll include number of games in brackets
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by hrundi89 »

You'd have to include something around "opponent position on ladder at time of game" to assess the likelihood of the Raiders winning the game as an additional measure.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Botman »

Would also be important to know if the home and away splits.
That's an important variable to be considered.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
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GO;
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Seiffert82 »

I'm not entirely sure how the rating system works, but the results seem to indicate quite a range in outcomes. Is it the difference in our win % with that ref vs our average winning percent?

Anyway, the results support my gut instinct that we seem to get quite a fair go out of Perenara, Klein and Badger - so the model must be correct! I don't mind Cecchin either, despite our negative score with him. Cummins is entirely unsurprising.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

Added some more games from 2015 and fixed a couple of data errors.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

Round one referees
Chris Sutton
Dave Munro

Chis Sutton has a score of -1.479 which is quite concerning. Hopefully this is contracted by Dave's score of 2.887 which is excellent.

Last year Chris reffed us for only 2 games with a 1/1 result, while we had Dave 6 times for 6 wins.
Given the opposition and last year's results, I think we're going to be given a fair go.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

Round two referees appear to be the same as round one:

Chris Sutton
Dave Munro

Due to the win last weekend, Chris has gone from negative to positive - 1.152.
Dave Munro has gone up to 3.367 which is huge.

It's looking like we have two referees which are favourable to the Raiders style of play.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by -PJ- »

I hope we get Ben at GIO before the season goes belly up...
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by simo »

-PJ- wrote: March 18, 2020, 9:37 am I hope we get Ben at GIO before the season goes belly up...
There has to be an “are you sure?” Chant if any 6 again is called
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

This week we have Grant Atkins as our ref. Grant has a rating of 3.79 which is a very favourable number for the Raiders. Last year, Grant was our ref for 3 games, with 3 wins for the Raiders.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

This week we have Ashley Klein. Ashley has a rating of 1.004 which is pretty low but just on our side of the ledger. We had Ashley 7 times last year with a 5/2 result. Be interesting to see what happens this week.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by raiderskater »

I don't much like that. Klein was absolutely useless with the new rules in the Roosters/Rabbitohs match.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

Apologies for missing the game last week.

This week we have Grant Atkins. We've had Grant once this year for a win, and 3 times last year for 3 wins. With a rating of 4.68, he's style certainly seems to be in our favour. Let's hope he gives us a good game.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Turt »

This week we have Ashley Klein. Ashley has a rating of -1.27213 against us. That's just on the negative side of things for us. This year we've had Klein for one game which resulted in a loss. Last year we had 5 wins and 2 losses with him reffing.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by BJ »

Turt wrote:Apologies for missing the game last week.

This week we have Grant Atkins. We've had Grant once this year for a win, and 3 times last year for 3 wins. With a rating of 4.68, he's style certainly seems to be in our favour. Let's hope he gives us a good game.
That didn’t go to well. Maybe he was reading this site and thought he better crack down on us and give Manly plenty of latitude.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Atkins was difficult to decipher and was inconsistent with his 6 to go rulings. There must have been half a dozen which should have been awarded to us that were not
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by bonehead »

From last week, I turned on the TV with Parker napping on the grass. What was the penalty for when Parker took his nap?
why did he stop Curtis scott runaway and penalise interference on the kicker just before their 2nd try? replay inconclusive of interference.

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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by BadnMean »

I honestly gave up trying to understand why/how/not 6 again calls were given last week. I think we are just supposed to accept them as random, mystifying events and move on. They may as well just have a randomizer go off every tackle and if it rolls a "6" *ding ding* 6 again!
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

bonehead wrote: June 24, 2020, 3:08 pm From last week, I turned on the TV with Parker napping on the grass. What was the penalty for when Parker took his nap?
why did he stop Curtis scott runaway and penalise interference on the kicker just before their 2nd try? replay inconclusive of interference.

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As far as I can see, the penalty was incorrectly awarded and Sia Soliola was incorrectly put on report. The MRC declined to charge him with any offence.

The Raiders could have challenged the both of those decisions successfully IMO.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by RichmondRaider »

They should have put Campbelltown turf on report
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by bonehead »

greeneyed wrote:
bonehead wrote: June 24, 2020, 3:08 pm From last week, I turned on the TV with Parker napping on the grass. What was the penalty for when Parker took his nap?
why did he stop Curtis scott runaway and penalise interference on the kicker just before their 2nd try? replay inconclusive of interference.

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As far as I can see, the penalty was incorrectly awarded and Sia Soliola was incorrectly put on report. The MRC declined to charge him with any offence.

The Raiders could have challenged the both of those decisions successfully IMO.
Thanks I was pretty confused on the parker one, thought maybe sia was offside

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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by gergreg »

bonehead wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
bonehead wrote: June 24, 2020, 3:08 pm From last week, I turned on the TV with Parker napping on the grass. What was the penalty for when Parker took his nap?
why did he stop Curtis scott runaway and penalise interference on the kicker just before their 2nd try? replay inconclusive of interference.

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As far as I can see, the penalty was incorrectly awarded and Sia Soliola was incorrectly put on report. The MRC declined to charge him with any offence.

The Raiders could have challenged the both of those decisions successfully IMO.
Thanks I was pretty confused on the parker one, thought maybe sia was offside

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When watching live I thought they had called it a high shot. I was unlucky enough to be watching the game with a mate who is a Manly fan and we were both scratching our heads as to why it was a penalty. They must have shown about a dozen replays from various angles and not one showed contact with the head. It just looked like he slipped over and banged his head on the ground.

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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Botman »

It was clearly the incorrect call but the ref called the penalty in live action... and live it looked very likely that Sia shot out of the line and made high contact, and the ref is looking at a player that is KO'd on the ground...

I dont think we need to be that upset about it... replays clearly showed Sia didnt make any contact with the head and the damage was done by him slipping on a sub par surface, but Sia missed him by literaly cms... and falling/slipping isnt a thing anymore, high contact is high contact

Live, and without the aid of replay i bet 90% of people thought Sia cleaned him up... the penalty was clearly incorrect but this was entirely understandable situation.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

But he didn’t make high contact.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: June 24, 2020, 9:23 pm But he didn’t make high contact.
By what? 1-2cms?
Sia went EXTEMELY close to making accidential high contac...the offiical is making a call live in the moment and he see an arm swing EXTREMELY close, close enough that you need HD replays to see there was no contact to head... and the guy KO'd on the floor afterwards.

You honestly cant hang the offiical for not having superman **** vision on this. He took in the information, made a pretty logical conclusion based on what he saw and by 1-2cms, got it wrong... **** happens man. Even the fox commentry team seemed stuned ON REPLAY to see that actually Sia didnt make contact at all.

We got a bad call, but one that was completely understandable, they lost a player for 76 minutes....

In the 4th minute against Parra this week, what would you rather have, a penalty? or to lose J.Croker for the rest of the game?
Last edited by Botman on June 24, 2020, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

I was just pointing out that “high is high contact” isn’t relevant in this case.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: June 24, 2020, 9:43 pm I was just pointing out that “high is high contact” isn’t relevant in this case.
Not on replay, no.
But live, it looks as it looks and the high is high contact speaks to the fact that the official clearly thought he saw high contact and slipping no longer matters, high is high and a madatory penalty, he awarded the pen based on what he saw... and if you need HD replays to say "oooh boy, tough call, Sia didnt make contact at all" but the difference is literal cms and live it looked very much like Sia had collected him accidently... i just dont know that we need pretend like this was anything but an understandbly incorrect decision.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: June 24, 2020, 9:47 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 24, 2020, 9:43 pm I was just pointing out that “high is high contact” isn’t relevant in this case.
Not on replay, no.
But live, it looks as it looks and the high is high contact speaks to the fact that the official clearly thought he saw high contact and slipping no longer matters, high is high and a madatory penalty, he awarded the pen based on what he saw... and if you need HD replays to say "oooh boy, tough call, Sia didnt make contact at all" but the difference is literal cms and live it looked very much like Sia had collected him accidently... i just dont know that we need pretend like this was anything but an understandbly incorrect decision.
Just stating the facts, sir.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Botman »

And ignoring the context to feed a long standing agenda, sir.
Thankfully, MERCIFULLY i am here to remind people of the context.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by bonehead »

Botman wrote:And ignoring the context to feed a long standing agenda, sir.
Thankfully, MERCIFULLY i am here to remind people of the context.
as I said, literally turned it on, saw a replay of him slipping, sia going over the top and then penalty on with the game. I'm ok with the call live just wanted to know it was for that and not something else

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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: June 24, 2020, 9:50 pm And ignoring the context to feed a long standing agenda, sir.
Thankfully, MERCIFULLY i am here to remind people of the context.
I’m not complaining, I’ve been simply factual in saying the penalty was incorrectly awarded and the Raiders would have won a captain’s challenge. Not mentioned it in my match review... just responded to a question from another poster.
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Re: Referees versus Raiders

Post by Botman »

bonehead wrote: June 24, 2020, 9:55 pm
Botman wrote:And ignoring the context to feed a long standing agenda, sir.
Thankfully, MERCIFULLY i am here to remind people of the context.
as I said, literally turned it on, saw a replay of him slipping, sia going over the top and then penalty on with the game. I'm ok with the call live just wanted to know it was for that and not something else

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No it was a high contact call live. Sia was put on report for it. Would have not been called at if not called live, but once it's called live, you cant put the paste back on the tube (though the idea of a challenge was raised i dont know if this is challengable, though i suspect 4 minutes into the game a pen inside the 20 is not a pen you will ever really challenge)
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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