Raiders player signing speculation 2020

[afgtnk]

People can peruse the defensive (and other) statistics for fullbacks here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... =tryCauses

Dufty 13 Try Assists to CNK's three
Dufty 11 Tries to CNK's seven

Fox Sports' try causes are a rubbish stat regardless of the player IMO, but even if we do take them, it's Dufty 18 to CNK nine. That's a net +5 to Dufty all things added up, and he's in a far **** side.

[Botman]

It's the speed that makes those guys the support players they are
CNK is very active in support play, as active as any of them, but when a break is made, that speed to catch up to the play and position yourself where you need to be to take advantage is why Tedesco/TT/Pap and guys like Dufty can really feel like they're ahead of the others in this area.

as has been identified by most of us here, this team is lacking in genuine speed

[Botman]

Fox Sports' try causes are a rubbish stat regardless of the player IMO

It's not perfect and i've got my own issues with fox sports try cause/assist stats but it's the best measure avaiable to the general public and gives a much better and more accurate picture of what is really going on than any thing else.

[afgtnk]

What about Gutherson?

He doesn't have anywhere near that speed and yet he's probably only a touch below them

[afgtnk]

Defensive stats for NRL fullbacks aren't developed at all. They can't be using the same basic ones for every player - need stuff like tries saved, % of kicks diffused by kick type, in-goal escapes, etc.

[Botman]

What about Gutherson?

He doesn't have anywhere near that speed and yet he's probably only a touch below them

Gutherson is a little faster than he's given credit for, but it's a good counter. My position on that would be he's a bit unique in that he's got this very innate feel for the game and where to be. Reminds a bit of Terry Lamb, he was never fast but scored a ton of tries as a support player because he just had that feel for the game... Gutho is a natural ball player between the ears, he reads and understands the game extremely well and that allows him to put himself in position and react a bit quicker

[afgtnk]

What about Gutherson?

He doesn't have anywhere near that speed and yet he's probably only a touch below them

Gutherson is a little faster than he's given credit for, but it's a good counter. My position on that would be he's a bit unique in that he's got this very innate feel for the game and where to be. Reminds a bit of Terry Lamb, he was never fast but scored a ton of tries as a support player because he just had that feel for the game... Gutho is a natural ball player between the ears, he reads and understands the game extremely well and that allows him to put himself in position and react a bit quicker

Agree, and to me that's what most of support play is, as opposed to just pure speed. You've got to have that 'know' of where the ball is going and at least be in the frame for it.

Dufty isn't Gutho level as a playmaker but he's certainly dangerous, as we ourselves saw just last week.

[BJ]

Gutho is quick.

[gangrenous]

People can peruse the defensive (and other) statistics for fullbacks here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... =tryCauses

Dufty 13 Try Assists to CNK's three
Dufty 11 Tries to CNK's seven

Fox Sports' try causes are a rubbish stat regardless of the player IMO, but even if we do take them, it's Dufty 18 to CNK nine. That's a net +5 to Dufty all things added up, and he's in a far **** side.

Think you’re forgetting tries saved also in defence. Reckon Dufty stops a charging Sivo one on one?

[greeneyed]

People can peruse the defensive (and other) statistics for fullbacks here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... =tryCauses

Dufty 13 Try Assists to CNK's three
Dufty 11 Tries to CNK's seven

Fox Sports' try causes are a rubbish stat regardless of the player IMO, but even if we do take them, it's Dufty 18 to CNK nine. That's a net +5 to Dufty all things added up, and he's in a far **** side.

There are other attacking stats, however, where CNK is in front... average running metres and tackle breaks for example. Tackle efficiency?

[simo]

Dufty is not a better fullback than CNK. Fullbacks are also required to defend... Latrell Mitchell is not in the top four fullbacks either, IMO.

Completely agree. For this team that we have, cnk is a ok.

[simo]

People can peruse the defensive (and other) statistics for fullbacks here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... =tryCauses

Dufty 13 Try Assists to CNK's three
Dufty 11 Tries to CNK's seven

Fox Sports' try causes are a rubbish stat regardless of the player IMO, but even if we do take them, it's Dufty 18 to CNK nine. That's a net +5 to Dufty all things added up, and he's in a far **** side.

There are other attacking stats, however, where CNK is in front... average running metres and tackle breaks for example. Tackle efficiency?

Theres also the way the fullback manages the defensive line and plugs gaps as the game rolls on. Cnk deserves a lot of credit for our teams over all improved defence

[Postman Pat]

People can peruse the defensive (and other) statistics for fullbacks here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... =tryCauses

Dufty 13 Try Assists to CNK's three
Dufty 11 Tries to CNK's seven

Fox Sports' try causes are a rubbish stat regardless of the player IMO, but even if we do take them, it's Dufty 18 to CNK nine. That's a net +5 to Dufty all things added up, and he's in a far **** side.

There are other attacking stats, however, where CNK is in front... average running metres and tackle breaks for example. Tackle efficiency?

Theres also the way the fullback manages the defensive line and plugs gaps as the game rolls on. Cnk deserves a lot of credit for our teams over all improved defence

100%, and CNK has never been squatted away like a fly trying to make a tackle.

[MrPosh]

I'm going to split the difference here
COM is off the mark when he say no one would consider Dufty a good fullback, i think most judges would see him as a good but flawed fullback. He's a bit like the anti CNK... he's all about attack, he can cut teams to ribbons, and his ball playing is some of the best in the game for that position. He can reliably and consistently create tries with his ball running and ball playing... that's a pretty handy place to start as a 2020 fullback

But defensively he's a sieve. And positionally he can be found out. CNK thrives on those things but is a total waste of time as a ball player.

Is he better than CNK? Depends... do you need your team to create points or stop them?
I'd have them ranked pretty much the same, to me they are the same player sort of quality of player but at polar ends of the spectrum. I'd probably have CNK slightly ahead simply because he's still an effective and good ball runner and he's shown some other creative skills with some little kicks etc... so i'd have him slightly ahead of Dufty but i have watched Dufty this year and wondered if we wouldnt be a more balanced team with a fullback like him over CNK.

I think that's a good shout, but CNK has to be above Dufty as a choice.

It's easier to find some ball playing elsewhere than it is to plug the gaps in the last line of defence.

[Raiders666]

Would anyone rather AJ Brimson? He is going great guns

[Dr Zaius]

Would anyone rather AJ Brimson? He is going great guns

Was thinking that. He was excellent for the Titans yesterday and is only 22.

[gerg]

The Titans are a really fun team to watch. I think they could make the 8 next year. Holbrook has done a wonderful job so far.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

[BadnMean]

I actually thought Holbrook's career would take a big hit, just like every other coach they've had- not one of whom ever saw another NRL head coach gig.

But he must have something about him to get the GC heading in the right direction, without a great roster and he's brought a few players through under him. Have to respect that.

[Raiders666]

They have some great young players

[Seiffert82]

Holbrook has done a fabulous job of keeping his team motivated and constantly improving under the circumstances.

They basically lost James and Boyd as their starting front row, and then Arrow defected. Despite that, their pack has stood up and punched well above their weight.

[Seiffert82]

As far as Dufty goes, he has not showed an iota of improvement in defence during his career.

On the other hand, CNK has slowly been adding strings to his bow with the ball. Patience isn't a virtue with many fans, but there is no way our coaching staff is swapping a hard working top 5 defensive fullback with Dufty.

[casta66]

Defensive stats for NRL fullbacks aren't developed at all. They can't be using the same basic ones for every player - need stuff like tries saved, % of kicks diffused by kick type, in-goal escapes, etc.

I remember an article last year discussing in goal eacapes. CNK was number one in the league!

Happy to be corrected as it was a few months ago. But that's how I recall it.

[BadnMean]

Defensive stats for NRL fullbacks aren't developed at all. They can't be using the same basic ones for every player - need stuff like tries saved, % of kicks diffused by kick type, in-goal escapes, etc.

I remember an article last year discussing in goal eacapes. CNK was number one in the league!

Happy to be corrected as it was a few months ago. But that's how I recall it.

He was, with daylight second. When you talk defence; in goal escapes; positioning so as not to have to escape; safety under high ball or grubber; tackling ability; getting to long kicks on the full for returns; goal line defence; marshalling of the defensive line (hardest to gauge but possibly most important) all come under that umbrella.

[Ruben Daley]

I really enjoy watching Duffy play. He’s always been excellent running the ball but his passing this year has been fantastic too.

But there’s no team I’d take him in over CNK and I definitely wouldn’t do it for our team.

I also agree with Seiffert’s point above about patience. Let’s see how CNK develops over the next couple of seasons. My money is that he’ll slowly add the missing elements we want.

[casta66]

I was talking to my son about Charnze yesterday. CNK is his fave player.
We both agree that when raiders are on top, you hardly seem to notice him.
But when they are on the back foot, he really digs in.
His effort in that Panthers game was remarkable. I know he scored 2 quick tries but even apart from that, when the chips were down he was taking every run he could.
Effort, attitude, good defensive read. I love him at the back.
When Wighton started at fullback a few years back, the comments were that you need 50 games there before you feel comfortable.
CNK is well on his way. And even last year was rated as one of the top number 1s.

[Canberra Milk]

I'm going to split the difference here
COM is off the mark when he say no one would consider Dufty a good fullback, i think most judges would see him as a good but flawed fullback. He's a bit like the anti CNK... he's all about attack, he can cut teams to ribbons, and his ball playing is some of the best in the game for that position. He can reliably and consistently create tries with his ball running and ball playing... that's a pretty handy place to start as a 2020 fullback

But defensively he's a sieve. And positionally he can be found out. CNK thrives on those things but is a total waste of time as a ball player.

Is he better than CNK? Depends... do you need your team to create points or stop them?
I'd have them ranked pretty much the same, to me they are the same player sort of quality of player but at polar ends of the spectrum. I'd probably have CNK slightly ahead simply because he's still an effective and good ball runner and he's shown some other creative skills with some little kicks etc... so i'd have him slightly ahead of Dufty but i have watched Dufty this year and wondered if we wouldnt be a more balanced team with a fullback like him over CNK.

Which in turn probably depends on who else is in your spine. Between Hodgson, Georgie and Wighton, there 's plenty of attack in that spine so CNK is an ok fit for us, at the right price

Someone mentioned AJ Brimson - he'll be right up there with the best fullbacks soon imo, if not already. Superstars are invariably superstars because of their attack, not defence

[Canberra Milk]

You can't be considered anywhere near a top tier fullback if you're not a threat with the ball in hand or a good/great support player. His defensive skills are better than average, but even then he's far from the safety of a Schifcofske or Luke Phillips to make his name purely in that regard.

I've currently got him 9th behind (no particular order) Mitchell, RTS, Tedesco, Gutherson, Papenhuyzen, Ponga, Dufty, and Trbojevic.

Dylan Edwards not far off either, I've probably been underrating him this year. He's at least a good metre eater as CNK, better support player and probably a better ballplayer... I didn't rate him in the latter until recently and seen some good things - although would be interesting to see the stats, and he's playing in a more well-oiled attack machine to be fair

[bonehead]

I'm going to split the difference here
COM is off the mark when he say no one would consider Dufty a good fullback, i think most judges would see him as a good but flawed fullback. He's a bit like the anti CNK... he's all about attack, he can cut teams to ribbons, and his ball playing is some of the best in the game for that position. He can reliably and consistently create tries with his ball running and ball playing... that's a pretty handy place to start as a 2020 fullback

But defensively he's a sieve. And positionally he can be found out. CNK thrives on those things but is a total waste of time as a ball player.

Is he better than CNK? Depends... do you need your team to create points or stop them?
I'd have them ranked pretty much the same, to me they are the same player sort of quality of player but at polar ends of the spectrum. I'd probably have CNK slightly ahead simply because he's still an effective and good ball runner and he's shown some other creative skills with some little kicks etc... so i'd have him slightly ahead of Dufty but i have watched Dufty this year and wondered if we wouldnt be a more balanced team with a fullback like him over CNK.

Which in turn probably depends on who else is in your spine. Between Hodgson, Georgie and Wighton, there 's plenty of attack in that spine so CNK is an ok fit for us, at the right price

Someone mentioned AJ Brimson - he'll be right up there with the best fullbacks soon imo, if not already. Superstars are invariably superstars because of their attack, not defence

Note Trbojevic, absolute gumby defender but weapon with the ball

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[afgtnk]

You can't be considered anywhere near a top tier fullback if you're not a threat with the ball in hand or a good/great support player. His defensive skills are better than average, but even then he's far from the safety of a Schifcofske or Luke Phillips to make his name purely in that regard.

I've currently got him 9th behind (no particular order) Mitchell, RTS, Tedesco, Gutherson, Papenhuyzen, Ponga, Dufty, and Trbojevic.

Dylan Edwards not far off either, I've probably been underrating him this year. He's at least a good metre eater as CNK, better support player and probably a better ballplayer... I didn't rate him in the latter until recently and seen some good things - although would be interesting to see the stats, and he's playing in a more well-oiled attack machine to be fair

Yeah he's decent. Understandably not getting many plaudits though with the other three in Panthers' spine on fire this season.

[Seiffert82]

Defensive stats for NRL fullbacks aren't developed at all. They can't be using the same basic ones for every player - need stuff like tries saved, % of kicks diffused by kick type, in-goal escapes, etc.

I remember an article last year discussing in goal eacapes. CNK was number one in the league!

Happy to be corrected as it was a few months ago. But that's how I recall it.

He was, with daylight second. When you talk defence; in goal escapes; positioning so as not to have to escape; safety under high ball or grubber; tackling ability; getting to long kicks on the full for returns; goal line defence; marshalling of the defensive line (hardest to gauge but possibly most important) all come under that umbrella.

Yep, the fact he hasn't had to do the same thing this season indicates to me that our defence up the field has improved in 2020. We regularly seemed to be running off our line last year as the opposition camped in our 20 metre zone. It certainly doesn't seem to be happening so much this season.

I wish the NRL provided stats on line drop outs conceded or opposition tackles in your defensive 20. I'd love to see how 2019 and 2020 compares.

[The Nickman]

I have no drama with CNK nor have I ever... this fanbase is weird sometimes.

More like bag out the players forum.

[Raiders_Pat]

Pretty much all of the game's top fullbacks will tell you that it took them several years to develop their ball playing skills... can't really expect this guy to be up amongst the best in that field in his second year in the position. Surely you gotta give CNK some more time to show improvement there before passing judgement.

[Canberra Milk]

Yes well Dufty seems to have pulled his out of basically nowhere this year

[AUSTEZER]

I wouldn't swap Cnk for any fullback in the comp

[Green Blogger]

Anyone who doubts CNK needs to just watch his tackle to put RTS on his back once he had broken through to open field yesterday. Not many fullbacks in the game make that tackle.