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Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 6:59 am
by Green2ooF
What’s everyone’s strongest team for 2020??

1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker
4. BJ
5. Simmo
6. St. Jackie
7. GW
8. Sia
9. Hodgo
10. Paps
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Oldfield or Young
15. Lui
16. Horse
17. Havili

Undecided on the 14... having a back there worked well for us with Hodgo easily playing 80mins, I like havili in the team as he offers some good runs, ball playing and number 9 back up,
Young was starting to play some good footy.

Thoughts??
What’s yours

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 8:51 am
by Billy Walker
Green2ooF wrote: November 1, 2019, 6:59 am What’s everyone’s strongest team for 2020??

1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker
4. BJ
5. Simmo
6. St. Jackie
7. GW
8. Sia
9. Hodgo
10. Paps
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Oldfield or Young
15. Lui
16. Horse
17. Havili

Undecided on the 14... having a back there worked well for us with Hodgo easily playing 80mins, I like havili in the team as he offers some good runs, ball playing and number 9 back up,
Young was starting to play some good footy.

Thoughts??
What’s yours
Wouldn’t it be great if you were wrong! As good as that line up appears somehow Ricky unearths the next batch of players coming through. I bet our best team this time last year didn’t include Hors, Young CNK and Simmonsen and it would be awesome if a few more players like that were found that become instant stars for us.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 9:15 am
by Botman
I'd go with this:

1. Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Cotric
3. Croker (c)
4. Leilua
5. Simonsson
6. Wighton
7. G.Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson (c)
10. Guler
11. Tapine
12. Whitehead
13. Bateman

14. Havilii
15. Soliola
16. Horsburgh
17. Sutton

I still think our best team would be Tapine on the edge and Bateman in the middle, but i think both played well enough last year in their roles that its more likely that they stay there, and to me i wouldnt argue too much either way.

Oldfield would come in for me with any injury/suspension/rep duty for the backs. If it was CNK, you move Cotric/Simo to fullback and Oldy comes on the wing. If it's a winger, its a straight swap, and a centre see's Cotric go into centre and Oldy on the wing.

Lui, Hetherington, Young and Murchie if he's still around are the back ups in the forwards.

Whoever ends up the back up half, probably Sam Williams in the halves

So my extended 21 would be:

18. Oldfield
19. S.Williams
20. Lui
21. Young

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 10:54 am
by zim
Strongest:
1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker (c)
4. Joey Leilua
5. Bailey Simonsson
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson (c)
10. Sia Soliola
11. John Bateman
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Michael Oldfield
15. Emre Guler
16. Corey Horsburgh
17. Ryan Sutton

Back up options:
Fullback: Bailey Simonsson
Back: Michael Oldfield
Forwards: Dunamis Lui
Backrow: Hudson Young
Hooker: Siliva Havili
Playmaker: Sam Williams
Utility: Just rotates depending on the round and injuries. Some weeks they'll get no game time so they'll need to head back to Mounties for a few weeks for fitness.

Round 1:
Ryan Sutton to start with Sia on the bench. The old work horse will build into the season and be starting towards the end of it like this year. Depending on how the kids back up Lui could push someone out at the start of the year as they build match fitness in reserves.
Papalii operating in 20-25min stints for the first few rounds. Don't want to burn him out. Was incredible what he was able to do late in the season.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 11:24 am
by BadnMean
Botman wrote: November 1, 2019, 9:15 am I'd go with this:

1. Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Cotric
3. Croker (c)
4. Leilua
5. Simonsson
6. Wighton
7. G.Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson (c)
10. Guler
11. Tapine
12. Whitehead
13. Bateman

14. Havilii
15. Soliola
16. Horsburgh
17. Sutton

I still think our best team would be Tapine on the edge and Bateman in the middle, but i think both played well enough last year in their roles that its more likely that they stay there, and to me i wouldnt argue too much either way.

Oldfield would come in for me with any injury/suspension/rep duty for the backs. If it was CNK, you move Cotric/Simo to fullback and Oldy comes on the wing. If it's a winger, its a straight swap, and a centre see's Cotric go into centre and Oldy on the wing.

Lui, Hetherington, Young and Murchie if he's still around are the back ups in the forwards.

Whoever ends up the back up half, probably Sam Williams in the halves

So my extended 21 would be:

18. Oldfield
19. S.Williams
20. Lui
21. Young
That's pretty close to my preference.

Hors offers more impact off the bench than Guler but chucking him in as a starter might be good for him too. It will probably all switch around a few times during the season anyway like 2019 did. We're assuming Ricky's late preference for Guler will continue (Guler's form certainly deserves it).

Sutton in for Lui I agree with. Sutton might have more to offer coming back fresh and another (dare I say it) pre-season under his belt, done his adusting year and let's see what he's got. He was

The back half of Lui's year wasn't quite up to scratch imo.

Again, I dare say both will rotate through at some stage, I just hope either plays at their best consistently to nail the spot.

Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 12:02 pm
by greeneyed
1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker (c)
4. Joey Leilua
5. Bailey Simonsson
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson (c)
10. Ryan Sutton
11. John Bateman
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Siliva Havili
15. Sia Soliola
16. Corey Horsburgh
17. Emre Guler

Sutton is strongest starting. I’m still unclear why Sutton got dropped from the top 17 instead of Liu.

Sia is No. 2 prop at present behind Papalii, that’s why he’s on the bench, to lead when Papalii is not there.

I’ve given up on Bateman to lock. I think that’s the best set up, but it’s not happening.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 12:05 pm
by The Nickman
Here's mine. Like Botto I also think Bateman and Tapine are playing in the wrong positions and would love to see them switched. I'd also switch Cotric and Simo to invariably prepare Cotric to switch full-time to that side's centre position in 2021.

Number 10 could be any out of Soliola, Guler and Sutton, depending on who has the best pre-season and looks the fittest.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Bailey Simonsson
3. Jarrod Croker (c)
4. Joey Leilua
5. Nick Cotric
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson (c)
10. Sia Soliola
11. Joseph Tapine
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. John Bateman

14. Siliva Havili
15. Ryan Sutton
16. Corey Horsburgh
17. Emre Guler

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 1:09 pm
by IBG
Everyone saying that Tapine should be on the edge is forgetting one key factor - his lateral defence is poor compared to Bateman. Taps was caught out numerous times in 2018.

If we make this change, our right side defence will be:

Tapine - G Williams - Leilua

If that doesn't spell recipe for disaster then I don't know what does.

We are defensive minded team now. Let's not forget that. Leave Bateman on the edge.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 1:14 pm
by zim
I'm not a fan of moving Tapine but if I was going to I'd move him to the left.
Whitehead - Williams - Leilua.
Tapine - Wighton - Croker.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 1:39 pm
by Botman
greeneyed wrote: November 1, 2019, 12:02 pm 10. Ryan Sutton

Sutton is strongest starting. I’m still unclear why Sutton got dropped from the top 17 instead of Liu.

Sia is No. 2 prop at present behind Papalii, that’s why he’s on the bench, to lead when Papalii is not there.

I’ve given up on Bateman to lock. I think that’s the best set up, but it’s not happening.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I ALMOST did the same with Sutton, into the front row and Guler on the bench, but decided to go with upside and im VERY bullish on Guler's upside

I agree with the rest, i think its VITAL Sia and Papa are split, that's our best two guys and we need one of them on the park for the full 80, so you gotta split em. And yeah, whilst i think Tapine and Bateman should switch, i dont think its happening either, and it's probably largely on the back of what @IBG said above, defence on the edges

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 1:45 pm
by greeneyed
IBG wrote: November 1, 2019, 1:09 pm Everyone saying that Tapine should be on the edge is forgetting one key factor - his lateral defence is poor compared to Bateman. Taps was caught out numerous times in 2018.

If we make this change, our right side defence will be:

Tapine - G Williams - Leilua

If that doesn't spell recipe for disaster then I don't know what does.

We are defensive minded team now. Let's not forget that. Leave Bateman on the edge.
I think there's a lot to be said for that too.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 2:54 pm
by The Nickman
IBG wrote: November 1, 2019, 1:09 pm Everyone saying that Tapine should be on the edge is forgetting one key factor - his lateral defence is poor compared to Bateman. Taps was caught out numerous times in 2018.

If we make this change, our right side defence will be:

Tapine - G Williams - Leilua

If that doesn't spell recipe for disaster then I don't know what does.

We are defensive minded team now. Let's not forget that. Leave Bateman on the edge.
I'm not so sure about that... people arguing that Tapine's defense was poor on the edge are harking back to a time when our whole team was defending like busted ****. I really think he'd be fine as a part of our current structures.

And in actual fact, I don't even remember him being THAT bad back in the day anyway... this seems to be another Greenhouse myth like Paul Vaughan and his *checks notes* slow play the balls.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 3:16 pm
by Sydney_Raider
Has there been any more news re Jack Hetherington??? He is one player who could force his way in to our top 17.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 3:37 pm
by BigPapa
1. Charnze
2. Nick
3. Jarrod
4. Joseph
5. Bailey
6. Jack
7. George
8. Josh
9. Josh
10. Iosia
11. John
12. Elliot
13. Joseph

14. Saliva
15. Emre
16. Cory
17. Jack

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 4:04 pm
by Wiki Special
Nicoll-Klokstad
Cotric
Croker
Leilua
Simonsson
Wighton
G. Williams
Papalii
Hodgson
Sutton
J. Bateman
Whitehead
Tapine

Havili
Soliola
Horsburgh
Guler

Hetherington next cab off the rank.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 4:18 pm
by edwahu
Sydney_Raider wrote: November 1, 2019, 3:16 pm Has there been any more news re Jack Hetherington??? He is one player who could force his way in to our top 17.
Not yet. Last mention was Nathan Brown talking up the signing on 360 after the grand final.

The teams are supposed to lodge 24 man squads today I think so we might hear something soon.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 4:25 pm
by -TW-
1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker
4. Leilua
5. Simonsson
6. Wighton
7. G Williams
8. Papalli
9. Hodgson
10. Sutton
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Havilli
15. Guler
16. Soliola
17. Horsburgh

18. S Williams
19. Young
20. Lui
21. Oldfield

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Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 6:03 pm
by Botman
The Rickman wrote: November 1, 2019, 2:54 pm
IBG wrote: November 1, 2019, 1:09 pm Everyone saying that Tapine should be on the edge is forgetting one key factor - his lateral defence is poor compared to Bateman. Taps was caught out numerous times in 2018.

If we make this change, our right side defence will be:

Tapine - G Williams - Leilua

If that doesn't spell recipe for disaster then I don't know what does.

We are defensive minded team now. Let's not forget that. Leave Bateman on the edge.
I'm not so sure about that... people arguing that Tapine's defense was poor on the edge are harking back to a time when our whole team was defending like busted ****. I really think he'd be fine as a part of our current structures.

And in actual fact, I don't even remember him being THAT bad back in the day anyway... this seems to be another Greenhouse myth like Paul Vaughan and his *checks notes* slow play the balls.
I agree that his issues on the edge are over stated but there is no denying that having Bateman and Whitehead... two extremely smart, tough and agile defenders on the edge has helped

And they’re both better than Tapine in space as a defender... though I don’t think it’s by a huge amount. But I think that difference, however marginal it is, is why it’ll stay with Tapine in the middle and Bateman on the edge

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 6:11 pm
by yeh raiders
Tapine’s an average defender everywhere. His contact is poor. Something that definitely needs work.

Playing him in the middle just happens to weaken his attack as well.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 7:40 pm
by Botman
... average is a weird sports word :lol:
It's almost never used correctly...

What do you mean by average? Do you mean it in the actually average as in he's middle of the park?
Or do you mean it in the more commonly used sports meaning of average, in that you think he's bad?

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 8:08 pm
by yeh raiders
Comparatively to first grade standard, I think he’s a poor defender.

Stands out more than anyone in our team, from a tackling point-of-view... given our standard’s pretty high these days, a sore thumb isn’t hard to spot.

Needs to work on it in the off-season, but will still easily hold his spot in our best 13.

The props will be the most hotly contested spots.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 1, 2019, 8:30 pm
by Botman
I think he's pretty average in the real sense of it. He's middle of the road on a FG standard. But yeah, in our 2019 squad that stands out more.

That said, his defence was incredibly impactful when it counted this past season.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 2, 2019, 2:04 am
by afgtnk
I must've imagined Joe regularly belting guys in the finals series then

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 2, 2019, 6:57 am
by gerg
I wouldn't call Tapine average. I thought he was fairly inconsistent last season. He would have a blinder one week then a very quiet game followed by a game with ill-discipline.

I think there is really only one starting spot up for grabs with Guler, Horsburgh, Soliola and Sutton rotating through it.

Will be interesting to see our backline depth. We've got Kris and Oldfield - wondering if there is another young guy who can make the step up.

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Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 2, 2019, 8:59 am
by greeneyed
I think the Raiders expect Harley Smith-Shields will be stepping up very soon.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 2, 2019, 12:24 pm
by BadnMean
gergreg wrote: November 2, 2019, 6:57 am I wouldn't call Tapine average. I thought he was fairly inconsistent last season. He would have a blinder one week then a very quiet game followed by a game with ill-discipline.

I think there is really only one starting spot up for grabs with Guler, Horsburgh, Soliola and Sutton rotating through it.

Will be interesting to see our backline depth. We've got Kris and Oldfield - wondering if there is another young guy who can make the step up.

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Tapine has the equipment to be an outstanding player. His time in the middle has slowly seen him add some toughness- he hits hard and often now. He struggled for consistency because he's always in and out of the team with a broken hand or a suspension- seems to get at least one of each for the last couple of years.

If he can string a good run of games together again like his early years I think we can see him deliver. He's here for the next 4 years so we need to make sure he keeps developing. I thought he was excellent in some of our big games at the end of 2019.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 2, 2019, 4:37 pm
by IBG
I think Smith-Shields will definitely be the next Cotric and Simonsson, so I'm not concerned about outside back depth.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 2, 2019, 5:24 pm
by Mickey_Raider
Seems like something of a consensus that the three changes from our GF team are:

Williams > Sezer
Havili > Rapana (Simmonsen)
Sutton > Lui

I think its the right call RE: Lui. He played above himself for the first half of 2019 and the rest of the year represented a regression to the mean. He should be first prop off the ranks in reserve.

I think its quite fortunate we have a bona fide FG player in Havili to slot straight in too. I think he is a touch underrated by some.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 2, 2019, 6:33 pm
by Cranky Old Man
yeh raiders wrote: November 1, 2019, 6:11 pm Tapine’s an average defender everywhere. His contact is poor. Something that definitely needs work.

Playing him in the middle just happens to weaken his attack as well.
I couldnt disagree more strongly, I think he is an excellent front on defender, well into the top rank. It is why I would leave him at lock rather than on an edge.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 3, 2019, 1:21 pm
by Matt
Billy Walker wrote: November 1, 2019, 8:51 am
Green2ooF wrote: November 1, 2019, 6:59 am What’s everyone’s strongest team for 2020??

1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker
4. BJ
5. Simmo
6. St. Jackie
7. GW
8. Sia
9. Hodgo
10. Paps
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Oldfield or Young
15. Lui
16. Horse
17. Havili

Undecided on the 14... having a back there worked well for us with Hodgo easily playing 80mins, I like havili in the team as he offers some good runs, ball playing and number 9 back up,
Young was starting to play some good footy.

Thoughts??
What’s yours
Wouldn’t it be great if you were wrong! As good as that line up appears somehow Ricky unearths the next batch of players coming through. I bet our best team this time last year didn’t include Hors, Young CNK and Simmonsen and it would be awesome if a few more players like that were found that become instant stars for us.
CNK and Simmo weren't in our teams this time last yr, coz, well, they weren't even Raiders this time last yr.

Well, actually, its the 3rd of Nov, so maybe, Simmo had started as of the 1st, but intention of the comment stands.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 3, 2019, 1:22 pm
by greeneyed
Simonsson was only on a train and trial prior to Christmas, as I recall.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 3, 2019, 1:24 pm
by Matt
yeh raiders wrote: November 1, 2019, 6:11 pm Tapine’s an average defender everywhere. His contact is poor. Something that definitely needs work.

Playing him in the middle just happens to weaken his attack as well.
You must have missed the shot on Addo-Carr that lead to the BJ flick pass for the Bateman try.

Or the shot on Walmsely the other day. That was pretty solid contact.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 3, 2019, 5:30 pm
by Raiders_Pat
1. Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Cotric
3. Croker (c)
4. Leilua
5. Simonsson
6. Wighton
7. G. Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson (c)
10. Soliola
11. Tapine
12. Whitehead
13. Bateman

14. Havilii
15. Young
16. Horsburgh
17. Guler

If we're talking strongest line up before the 2020 season kicks off, this it it for me. I wouldn't mind seeing Soliola on the interchange for somebody else starting if they were up for the task. I'd like to see Horsburgh or Guler push for that spot.

Unfortunately, I don't think Sutton is in our best 17 at this stage. Although that doesn't mean the door is shut for him. I just think we have some better options. Also, with Havili in the 17 and playing most of his minutes at lock, we're better off with a guy like Young on the bench rather than a fourth middle.

I'm sceptical that we'll see the Tapine/Bateman switch happen, but I'm still of the view that it's our best set up... and agree that the opinion around him being a poor defender at second row is a myth.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 3, 2019, 6:57 pm
by Billy Walker
Havilli is the best back up 9 we have at this stage but I’d love to see someone take the title off him this year. He’s solid but he has errors in him and doesn’t provide huge spark when he comes on. Not convinced Starling is the answer but hopefully he steps up or we unearth someone new.

Re: Strongest 2020 line up

Posted: November 3, 2019, 8:06 pm
by gangrenous
Havili is better than most first string hookers we’ve had for the last 20 years. He’s an incredible backup and solid player in his own right.