Let’s get behind Erin Molan

[Botman]

Right, well that's settled that matter
There is nothing to be done so women who are hounded day and night by **** trolls with misognyst, vulgar and sexist Bull will just have to cop it i guess, or just quit their jobs.

Good grief

Pretty much. It’s not just women who are being abused, men are targets as well, but when it’s a bloke it doesn’t seem to attract as much media attention or confected sympathy from all the knights in shining armour. No one would accept an NRL player quitting football because of online abuse, they would be told the best strategy to deal with it is just to ignore it, rather than go the media and plead for all the mean people to stop being mean.

Rayden, what you're engaging in here is a the textbook definition of "false equivalence"
The many orders of magnitude difference what women in the public sphere face on social media compared to men is irreconcilable in terms of a comparison.

And as for your second statement, it's quite simply not true, as evidenced by the year long battle Latrell Mitchell has had with online racist trolls. And the overwhelming majority of people are not telling him to ignore it, or stop talking about it publicly pleading for people to stop being *****. Most decent human beings are supporting Latrell in the very public way he's handled this and trying to effect some change

Erin Molan should not have to deal with this sort of Bull. It's not on her to be thicker skinned or to ignore it, or quit her job. It's for her to do her job and expect to do that without a bunch a ***** making wildly inappropriate, sexist, misogynistic comments about her. That's it, end of story. Anyone operating outside of that is where the problems lay, not with Erin Moylan.

And for those of us who are not absolute ****, its for us to stand up for her rights to be able to go about her life without having to deal with this scum, and not to excuse it, or ignore it, or put the onus on her to be above it. That's Bull, and it's an attitude that creates a culture in our society that allows it. If that's your position on it, you are part of the problem. It's a simple as that.

[The Nickman]

Right, well that's settled that matter
There is nothing to be done so women who are hounded day and night by **** trolls with misognyst, vulgar and sexist Bull will just have to cop it i guess, or just quit their jobs.

Good grief

Pretty much. It’s not just women who are being abused, men are targets as well, but when it’s a bloke it doesn’t seem to attract as much media attention or confected sympathy from all the knights in shining armour. No one would accept an NRL player quitting football because of online abuse, they would be told the best strategy to deal with it is just to ignore it, rather than go the media and plead for all the mean people to stop being mean.

Rayden, what you're engaging in here is a the textbook definition of "false equivalence"
The many orders of magnitude difference what women in the public sphere face on social media compared to men is irreconcilable in terms of a comparison.

And as for your second statement, it's quite simply not true, as evidenced by the year long battle Latrell Mitchell has had with online racist trolls. And the overwhelming majority of people are not telling him to ignore it, or stop talking about it publicly pleading for people to stop being ****. Most decent human beings are supporting Latrell in the very public way he's handled this and trying to effect some change

Erin Molan should not have to deal with this sort of Bull. It's not on her to be thicker skinned or to ignore it, or quit her job. It's for her to do her job and expect to do that without a bunch a **** making wildly inappropriate, sexist, misogynistic comments about her. That's it, end of story. Anyone operating outside of that is where the problems lay, not with Erin Moylan.

And for those of us who are not absolute ****, its for us to stand up for her rights to be able to go about her life without having to deal with this scum, and not to excuse it, or ignore it, or put the onus on her to be above it. That's Bull, and it's an attitude that creates a culture in our society that allows it. If that's your position on it, you are part of the problem. It's a simple as that.

Well said. Very, very well said.

[The Nickman]

When I left school and moved to Sydney I used to regularly attend the match of the round at the SCG and if I wasn't playing I would attend a game at a suburban ground as well. Crowd makeup then was overwhelmingly male, probably 70/30 or more. Overwhelmingly uncouth and prone to sudden violence as well.
Sports commentators and journalists then were 100% male, usually middleaged. (They drank and smoked so much they didn't live to old age).
Now women and young childrenmake up a big proportion of spectators at the ground and as TV watchers. They have no interest in watching boofheaded old males spouting misogynist rubbish in commentary and so women have been brought in to be an antidote to that crap. Where they have been effective (ABC, Fox, SMH) the commentary is much improved and ratings better. Where they have been ineffective, (Nine) the credibility of the show has continued to slide. By that measure, Erin Molan has been something of a failure, but I doubt any person could have rescued that cauldron of pus.
There are plenty of cranky middle aged (mental, rather than physical ages) men who pine for the supposed heyday of channel 9 and the input of Fatty etc and they seem more than ready to blame the passing of the good old days on the most visible target, Erin Molan. She is everything they hate, young, female, educated and well spoken, successful and a harbinger of change. She reminds them of their failures, and rather than attempt to remedy their failings they attack her as an easy out.
The comparisons of success for Erin should not be with the women on Fox or elsewhere, but rather the dead wood males she succeeded at Nine.

This was very well said too, I should have acknowledged it at the time.

[Northern Raider]

Plenty of people in this world are just ****. They have just as much access to social media as decent people and they are more prone to using it. You won't escape them.

[gangrenous]

Bad things happen when good people say nothing NR

Bad people are going to exist. But they should be reminded regularly that they’re ****

[rayden83]

The many orders of magnitude difference what women in the public sphere face on social media compared to men is irreconcilable in terms of a comparison.

Do you have any evidence of this? I trawl social media a lot and I cant say that I’ve noticed women more frequently the targets of trolling than men. Perhaps there is just more media reporting when the victims are women, as men are less likely to speak up about cyber bullying publicly for fear it will make them look weak. For example Josh Mcguires bullying didn’t come to light until his wife spoke out, but apparently it was nasty, death threats, etc.

Anyway I don’t want to get involved in a pseudo debate about gender politics. I maintain my point about anyone, regardless of gender, who is a public figure and decides to participate in social media needs to understand the risks, that there are psychopaths, social pests and trolls that are lying in wait to say hurtful things about you. So you accept those terms every time you enter the snake pit. I really don’t feel sorry for Erin, even more so that she’s gone on morning radio all weepy and hiding her eyes, all she is doing is empowering her attackers. She would do a lot better if she came out and said “I don’t give a **** about what the these people think”.

I know its awful and sure you can call it out, condemn it etc, but it won’t change anything as there are really no laws policing this sort of stuff on the internet, so the best tool you have in your arsenal to combat it is to ignore it. Or pass new laws.

[afgtnk]

Not that it makes it acceptable or anything but the trolling and the hate people in the NRL receive absolutely pales in comparison to the big leagues overseas.

I was looking into the abuse directed toward one of Manchester United's current 'boo' boys Jesse Lingard, and **** me, the volume and type of **** that the guy cops is just horrific . I'm surprised with how well they handle it, because it's incessant.

[Botman]

Plenty of people in this world are just ****. They have just as much access to social media as decent people and they are more prone to using it. You won't escape them.

How far does this attitude extend though NR?
What level of abuse do we get to willfully bury our heads in the sands about?

where does that slide stop? Any time society can't stop or legislate against someone being made a victim we just throw our hands up and say "**** happens, im afraid you'll just have to deal with it, we cant really stop it, so that's it i guess"
Of course not.

My wife works in Child Protection... imagine adopting this argument to that sphere of abuse... sorry kiddies, there are just bad people out there and there isnt much we can do about that, so it's just to you to just deal with it. Best of luck with everything!

Hah can you even imagine it?!
It's just not good enough to just say "oh well, it shouldnt happen but it does, and we cant really stop it, so i no longer care about about it and it's on the victims to figure out how they'll cope"

This online culture of harassment and bullying is already out of hand and it's getting worse. I dont try and speak up and advocate strongly about this stuff because i like Erin Molan, i do it because i have kids and i have a daughter, and if my daughter succeeds in her field to a level that she is a public figure, i dont want her suffering the consequences because our generation washed our hands of it and said it was all too hard, and told our women to just "deal with it".
That's not good enough. It's just not. And it tacitly enables the behaviour, so not only does it not help, it hurts! It actually exacerbates the problem.

IMO, whatever your views on Molan as a TV presenter, It is the job of decent people, to speak up against this stuff, in our communities, be that work, neighbourhoods, or yes, even online communities and do what ever it is we can to change the culture. These people thrive on the gang mentality, and if the gang ain't about that ****, that matters!

And it's my job as a parent to ensure i raise my kids to know that's not behaviour that is acceptable in any sense, and by calling this stuff out and being consistent in that, it helps show my son that this is not how i expect him to act and treat women as a man, and it's unacceptable.
And it shows my daughter that i am an advocate for her rights and i am not willing to accept that she just needs to "deal with it", and nor should she accept that.

[gangrenous]

Amen piggles

[gangrenous]

Do you have any evidence of this? I trawl social media a lot and I cant say that I’ve noticed women more frequently the targets of trolling than men. .

Well I guess you must since you’re here, but do you even internet?

[Northern Raider]

Plenty of people in this world are just ****. They have just as much access to social media as decent people and they are more prone to using it. You won't escape them.

How far does this attitude extend though NR?
What level of abuse do we get to willfully bury our heads in the sands about?

where does that slide stop? Any time society can't stop or legislate against someone being made a victim we just throw our hands up and say "**** happens, im afraid you'll just have to deal with it, we cant really stop it, so that's it i guess"
Of course not.

My wife works in Child Protection... imagine adopting this argument to that sphere of abuse... sorry kiddies, there are just bad people out there and there isnt much we can do about that, so it's just to you to just deal with it. Best of luck with everything!

Hah can you even imagine it?!
It's just not good enough to just say "oh well, it shouldnt happen but it does, and we cant really stop it, so i no longer care about about it and it's on the victims to figure out how they'll cope"

This online culture of harassment and bullying is already out of hand and it's getting worse. I dont try and speak up and advocate strongly about this stuff because i like Erin Molan, i do it because i have kids and i have a daughter, and if my daughter succeeds in her field to a level that she is a public figure, i dont want her suffering the consequences because our generation washed our hands of it and said it was all too hard, and told our women to just "deal with it".
That's not good enough. It's just not. And it tacitly enables the behaviour, so not only does it not help, it hurts! It actually exacerbates the problem.

IMO, whatever your views on Molan as a TV presenter, It is the job of decent people, to speak up against this stuff, in our communities, be that work, neighbourhoods, or yes, even online communities and do what ever it is we can to change the culture. These people thrive on the gang mentality, and if the gang ain't about that ****, that matters!

And it's my job as a parent to ensure i raise my kids to know that's not behaviour that is acceptable in any sense, and by calling this stuff out and being consistent in that, it helps show my son that this is not how i expect him to act and treat women as a man, and it's unacceptable.
And it shows my daughter that i am an advocate for her rights and i am not willing to accept that she just needs to "deal with it", and nor should she accept that.

Not sure where you get the "bury our heads in the sand" from. Thats pretending something isn't happening. I don't think anybody has put that view forward.

You're exactly right about where does it stop. Do we censor social media? If so who decides what is acceptable or not?

There are other forms of legalities around child abuse so not a valid comparison. Saying something mean on the internet is not illegal.

[rayden83]

Do you have any evidence of this? I trawl social media a lot and I cant say that I’ve noticed women more frequently the targets of trolling than men. .

Well I guess you must since you’re here, but do you even internet?

I'm just asking for evidence and research of this, rather than speaking through the lens of third wave feminism.

[Botman]

It’s not illegal, so nothing can be done and she, she whose crime is doing her job, should be the one who’s behaviour has to change
Not them, the miserable pricks doing the harassment, her.

It’s just old school ****. Like raiderskater said re: rape culture. It wouldn’t happen if they didn’t wear short skirts or they weren’t out late at night by themselves.

If she wants to be on TV, she just has to accept being called EDIT 500 times a day.

How ever you want to technically label that, matters little to me. It’s **** Bull and you should strive to be better than that

[gangrenous]

https://awava.org.au/2018/03/15/blog/ge ... 8750#_edn2

A few articles cited there that might be worth a look.

[Northern Raider]

It’s not illegal, so nothing can be done and she, she whose crime is doing her job, should be the one who’s behaviour has to change
Not them, the miserable pricks doing the harassment, her.

It’s just old school ****. Like raiderskater said re: rape culture. It wouldn’t happen if they didn’t wear short skirts or they weren’t out late at night by themselves.

If she wants to be on TV, she just has to accept being called a fat ugly slut 500 times a day.

How ever you want to technically label that, matters little to me. It’s **** Bull and you should strive to be better than that

You're using hyperbole to make a point but you're still not clear about what we can do about it. I've also missed what "technical labels" I'm applying here.

[Botman]

Here’s something you can specifically do NR

If you see someone online engaging in that bahaviour, call it out. Tell them to knock it off.
Here’s another thing you can do, stop putting the onus on the victim to change their behaviour and instead focus on perpetrators and their behaviour

By being vocal about that in the communities you engage with, be it at home, work, neighbourhoods, or even online you will empower others to speak up who share your views on this and further marginalise those who don’t

It’s not much but if every decent man did that and only that, the online harassment of women wouldn’t be solved but it wouldn’t be where it is right now

[rayden83]

It's really not black and white like that. I have no problem with calling it out, but the current laws do not protect against cyber bullying and these grubs have free reign to say what they want. Therefore the locus of control is with the one who is being bullied, either to ignore the comments, to turn off social media altogether or indulge in them. In my view this is the path of least resistance, rather than waiting for the world to change.

[Botman]

And if all we as a society ever did was take the path of least resistance, the world won’t ever change.

If good, decent men want the world to change on matters related to how we treat woman and this is ultimately a male issue, then it’s up to us as men to make it happen.

[rayden83]

https://awava.org.au/2018/03/15/blog/ge ... 8750#_edn2

A few articles cited there that might be worth a look.

http://www.cybercrimejournal.com/marcum ... anijcc.pdf

"First, the results indicated that females were more likely than males to post gossip online about others to hurt them. This finding confirms previous literature that
asserted females participate in bullying that involves emotional and psychological abuse, which involves gossiping and spreading of information (whether true or untrue) (Owens et al., 2000; Underwood, Galen, and Paquette, 2001). Females prefer participating in behavior that is not physically confrontational, and hiding behind the protection of a computer, they can be more brazen with their behavior. "

[Northern Raider]

Here’s something you can specifically do NR

If you see someone online engaging in that bahaviour, call it out. Tell them to knock it off.
Here’s another thing you can do, stop putting the onus on the victim to change their behaviour and instead focus on perpetrators and their behaviour

By being vocal about that in the communities you engage with, be it at home, work, neighbourhoods, or even online you will empower others to speak up who share your views on this and further marginalise those who don’t

It’s not much but if every decent man did that and only that, the online harassment of women wouldn’t be solved but it wouldn’t be where it is right now

Personally I prefer not to engage with them. There are many who do already do respond but these people thrive on the reaction. It's one of the primary reasons they do it to begin with. The phrase "don't feed the trolls" is quite appropriate. The more its ignored the less likely they are to continue. Not a perfect solution but until I see a better one I'll stick with that.

...and please stop using the line about suggesting the victim to change their behaviour when I've said nothing of the sort.

[rayden83]

And if all we as a society ever did was take the path of least resistance, the world won’t ever change.

If good, decent men want the world to change on matters related to how we treat woman and this is ultimately a male issue, then it’s up to us as men to make it happen.

You kinda gotta do both, change the world slowly, without throwing yourself into a wolves den quickly.

[gangrenous]

It's really not black and white like that. I have no problem with calling it out, but the current laws do not protect against cyber bullying and these grubs have free reign to say what they want. Therefore the locus of control is with the one who is being bullied, either to ignore the comments, to turn off social media altogether or indulge in them. In my view this is the path of least resistance, rather than waiting for the world to change.

If enough of the community won’t stand for it, then we’ll be in one hell of a lot better space than we are now. There’s your locus of control. How about we focus on that locus that opens up people’s freedoms, rather than represses them?

Not sure on your point for the second post... Actually, no that’s a lie - I do, but it’s terrifically flawed logic. Just because women are also the bullies (even perhaps more often) doesn’t make the behaviour okay does it? Or take away that they were more often the target, which was your original question. Be better than this.

[Northern Raider]

I have no statistical evidence to back this up but I believe the victims of online bullying would be fairly equal split between male and female. I also believe that 99% of online trolls would be male.

[gangrenous]

You kinda gotta do both, change the world slowly, without throwing yourself into a wolves den quickly.

That may be the best thing for Erin to do in the present climate. What’s the best thing for you to do? Just talk about how that’s the best solution for now, or perhaps speak out against that behaviour and how the current situation is unacceptable? Do your little bit for changing the world slowly. Who knows, maybe some of those trolling Erin read these pages...

[dubby]

Whats more important is what Frank thinks!!

Max has gone quiet!

REPPY!!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Off]

I quite like her she has a bit of fun and knows about footy EDIT

[rayden83]

You kinda gotta do both, change the world slowly, without throwing yourself into a wolves den quickly.

That may be the best thing for Erin to do in the present climate. What’s the best thing for you to do? Just talk about how that’s the best solution for now, or perhaps speak out against that behaviour and how the current situation is unacceptable? Do your little bit for changing the world slowly. Who knows, maybe some of those trolling Erin read these pages...

But we would change the world more quickly if we just learnt to ignore the trolls. By reacting to them, and launching a worldwide crusade to stop them, you're only encouraging them. They thrive off the attention, and they are utterly shameless, they do not observe and responsive to social norms like most people do. Ignoring is the most powerful weapon in fighting trolls, eventually they will get bored and go away.

[gangrenous]

Yep, the history of the internet suggests that approach is going swimmingly.

[gangrenous]

Rayden, can you give this a look? I’m guessing you don’t like Constance Hall, but give it a chance and listen to her. See if it doesn’t perhaps change your view.

[Coastalraider]

Right, well that's settled that matter
There is nothing to be done so women who are hounded day and night by **** trolls with misognyst, vulgar and sexist Bull will just have to cop it i guess, or just quit their jobs.

Good grief

Pretty much. It’s not just women who are being abused, men are targets as well, but when it’s a bloke it doesn’t seem to attract as much media attention or confected sympathy from all the knights in shining armour. No one would accept an NRL player quitting football because of online abuse, they would be told the best strategy to deal with it is just to ignore it, rather than go the media and plead for all the mean people to stop being mean.

Rayden, what you're engaging in here is a the textbook definition of "false equivalence"
The many orders of magnitude difference what women in the public sphere face on social media compared to men is irreconcilable in terms of a comparison.

And as for your second statement, it's quite simply not true, as evidenced by the year long battle Latrell Mitchell has had with online racist trolls. And the overwhelming majority of people are not telling him to ignore it, or stop talking about it publicly pleading for people to stop being ****. Most decent human beings are supporting Latrell in the very public way he's handled this and trying to effect some change

Erin Molan should not have to deal with this sort of Bull. It's not on her to be thicker skinned or to ignore it, or quit her job. It's for her to do her job and expect to do that without a bunch a **** making wildly inappropriate, sexist, misogynistic comments about her. That's it, end of story. Anyone operating outside of that is where the problems lay, not with Erin Moylan.

And for those of us who are not absolute ****, its for us to stand up for her rights to be able to go about her life without having to deal with this scum, and not to excuse it, or ignore it, or put the onus on her to be above it. That's Bull, and it's an attitude that creates a culture in our society that allows it. If that's your position on it, you are part of the problem. It's a simple as that.

Well said. Very, very well said.

[Cranky Old Man]

I don't want to seem too contrary to the views of anyone here on this thread, as I think we basically agree on the problem but differ on the solution, or even the necessity of a solution.
I enjoyed reading Pigs couple of posts, they were well written and compelling, and I agree with them. He, like me has family involved in child protection and like fields. He, like me recognises that in Australia there is an epidemic of sexual assault including child sexual assault.
I have no doubt, but no evidence either except anecdotal evidence, that the kind of people who carry out sexual bullying of women including online bullying such as Erin Molan is suffering through are more likely to be sly sexual offenders against women and young girls. I have no professional qualifications in this field, but due to my volunteering work I am frequently brought face to face with the crime and its consequences. I have nothing but contempt for the perpetrators, and frequently tell them so in blunt words. They are inevitably cowards of the lowest kind.
In my opinion any troll who has a go at Erin or any other person in a sexual fashion should immediately be placed on a sexual offenders database, and suffer the consequences of being so placed.

[Love4Noa]

That blowing the horn gag, the guys were playing on Erin Molan was just an example of how weak Channel 9 football coverage has become.

Pardon the pun for using ‘gag’ in this context.

Erin Molan is a fine support act for a sports panel show, but she ain’t supporting much league intellect.

Interesting reading all the posts and agreeing with most of them in terms of how people should be treated.
This one however made me a bit furious - to suggest Erin doesn't have much intellect lends itself much more to you not having any idea what you're on about and all posts commenting on the game in the future should be treated with a reasonable amount of disdain.

Do yourself a favour and watch her work on Channel 9 before the Footy Show, when Sterlo effectively headhunted her because she was so meticulous and professional in her preparation in pre game interviews. She know's her stuff. Ten fold. I don't know her as a person apart from meeting her once or twice in a pub in Canberra through mutual friends, but you just can't sit there and beat your chest and say she has no league intellect or is just a fine support act. If she's a support act, there isn't many people on TV that are more deserved as being the main act.

[reptar]

Whats more important is what Frank thinks!!

Max has gone quiet!

REPPY!!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Frank doesn't watch Channel 9, despite having free access to the remote. I imagine he would give Erin a friendly cat headbutt, though

[beetlejuice]

Her Dad is an absolute piece of work, but nothing against Erin. I thought she was a pretty good pundit?

I cant stand her, the apple doesnt fall far from the tree when it comes to her dad too. She has a terrible on screen demeanor and often has a deer in the headlights look.

She has no issue with the league coming out and supporting community movements such as helping to end domestic violence, but coming out and supporting the "yes" vote on SSM? No she publicly stated the league should stay out of it.

I have no issue with her being a woman reporting on the league, but there are so many more talented women out there to do it. I had the chance to meet Yvonne Sampson a few years back and she was an absolute delight.

[afgtnk]

Rayden, can you give this a look? I’m guessing you don’t like Constance Hall, but give it a chance and listen to her. See if it doesn’t perhaps change your view.

Does she not say in that video at the end that taking on the trolls doesn't work?

She's basically accepted that as a public figure, people are gonna hate. The antidote to that is for people to show support and remind her that she's loved, because the key issue for her is the way it made her feel isolated and universally hated (which would never have been true). That doesn't mean then that you don't need thick skin to withstand it in the first place.

In Erin's case, loads of people have come out for her publically to support without ranting about trolls and telling people to stop bullying. You can't, IMO, treat online trolls as a human matter and personalise it. Nor can you control who comes at you, or educate them - they don't have the capacity to learn. Retorting only gives them oxygen. As soon as they're online, hidden, anonymous, spitting out bile from their deepest insecurities, they've shed any human element they have.