How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

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How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by cat » August 27, 2019, 10:41 pm

After the manly game, where the nrl have admitted we got dudded what should happen?

In this case it could cost us 3rd spot, in other cases teams have missed the top 8

It looks like the nrl saying " we got it wrong" believe that's enough to make the clubs and fans happy.

Coaches have lost their gigs for less then this, players dropped for ever

Should klien have been dropped? Should he be video reffing us?

Personally i can understand we cant be given the 2 points but it doesn't sit well with me if it costs us the season.

I do think Klein should be sitting out this week, stuff up again then dropped for 4 weeks

The nrl consider the refs the 17th team, then they must be accountable like all the other "players" at all the clubs

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by magoo » August 28, 2019, 12:55 am

If there were capable refs waiting in the wings, I'm certain the NRL would happily demote sub par referees. Unfortunately the cupboard is bare,the well is dry.
Admitting errors does SFA to appease clubs and fans, but I don't know what else they can do. Human error is inevitable, especially with rules that are open to interpretation. Glad I'm not responsible for finding a solution.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by Azza » August 28, 2019, 5:37 am

Compulsory insolence.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by gangrenous » August 28, 2019, 6:44 am

magoo wrote: Admitting errors does SFA to appease clubs and fans
I much prefer it to before when they tried to paint a **** and convince you the mistake was actually right each week, or just ignored the error.

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How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by LastRaider » August 28, 2019, 6:55 am

Fines is the answer I believe. Hit them in their back pocket as they will soon improve once they see their pay cheque’s start to get eaten.

They should also recieve bonuses for good consistent performances as well

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by Dr Zaius » August 28, 2019, 7:36 am

A good old fashioned EDIT
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by raiderskater » August 28, 2019, 7:57 am

The problem is the nepotism. As long as the guy who appoints the referees is the brother of one nothing significant will ever happen.

And look at how hard it is for new refs to break in. The NRL was quick with all the hoopla and fanfare for their first female ref - but she hasn't reffed a game since, and her performance was fine. Instead they'd rather pick Sutton and Klein, who both have a gigantic laundry-list of errors.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by gergreg » August 28, 2019, 7:58 am

I think there's a real opportunity here for Nickman and Pigman. Spokesmen for the referee. "Fans... you're all wrong... and you're a bunch of ****."

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by gangrenous » August 28, 2019, 7:59 am

raiderskater wrote:The problem is the nepotism. As long as the guy who appoints the referees is the brother of one nothing significant will ever happen.

And look at how hard it is for new refs to break in. The NRL was quick with all the hoopla and fanfare for their first female ref - but she hasn't reffed a game since, and her performance was fine. Instead they'd rather pick Sutton and Klein, who both have a gigantic laundry-list of errors.
Hasn’t she? Pretty sure I saw her ref one last week?

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by gergreg » August 28, 2019, 7:59 am

raiderskater wrote:The problem is the nepotism. As long as the guy who appoints the referees is the brother of one nothing significant will ever happen.

And look at how hard it is for new refs to break in. The NRL was quick with all the hoopla and fanfare for their first female ref - but she hasn't reffed a game since, and her performance was fine. Instead they'd rather pick Sutton and Klein, who both have a gigantic laundry-list of errors.
I think I saw her refereeing on the w/e.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by -PJ- » August 28, 2019, 8:00 am

Just on Belinda Sharpe..

She's running the line at Shark Park this weekend.

Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to give her more experience in the middle ?

I've looked at the draw..she could ref the Knoughts/Tits game.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by robtheraider » August 28, 2019, 8:09 am

i'm firmly on the Ricky bandwagaon here...The rules are bathed in grey and are open to too much interpretation.

Good segment on 360 last night, where they highlighted how a competition with the same et of rules can see 8-10 penalties in one game and 24 penalties in the other.

I was also staggered when they highlighted that the video ref are directed to check offside for the attacking side when scoring a try, yet the defensive team is out of bounds....so even if the video ref had 100% and irrefutable evidence of the offside by Manly in the lead up to the intercept, the rules prohibit them from drawing this to the refs attention.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by Roger Kenworthy » August 28, 2019, 8:20 am

raiderskater wrote:
August 28, 2019, 7:57 am
The problem is the nepotism. As long as the guy who appoints the referees is the brother of one nothing significant will ever happen.

And look at how hard it is for new refs to break in. The NRL was quick with all the hoopla and fanfare for their first female ref - but she hasn't reffed a game since, and her performance was fine. Instead they'd rather pick Sutton and Klein, who both have a gigantic laundry-list of errors.
I'd say it is also due to the fulltime nature of the job and the two referee system. There isn't the depth there used to be now we need 16 referees a round, and they are all on big money. I remember refs being dropped all the time in the 90s. In the past when it was a semi-pro gig there seemed to be more depth at the top. I guess the reality is now the referee boss can't bring someone through on match payments to replace someone earning 300k without someone questioning their decision making.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by gangrenous » August 28, 2019, 8:21 am

robtheraider wrote:I was also staggered when they highlighted that the video ref are directed to check offside for the attacking side when scoring a try, yet the defensive team is out of bounds....so even if the video ref had 100% and irrefutable evidence of the offside by Manly in the lead up to the intercept, the rules prohibit them from drawing this to the refs attention.
Surely the offensive and defensive side is defined by who scored the try not who started the play in that role. That sounds like nonsense.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by The Rickman » August 28, 2019, 8:44 am

gergreg wrote:I think there's a real opportunity here for Nickman and Pigman. Spokesmen for the referee. "Fans... you're all wrong... and you're a bunch of ****."

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I think you’re completely misinterpreting our argument if you think we’re both arguing that the refereeing standard is good. My only point is that it goes both ways, and there’s not some grand conspiracy against the raiders.

And just in reference to the OP, how has this cost us third spot? *checks table, scratches head*
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by PigRickman » August 28, 2019, 9:07 am

The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:44 am
gergreg wrote:I think there's a real opportunity here for Nickman and Pigman. Spokesmen for the referee. "Fans... you're all wrong... and you're a bunch of ****."

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I think you’re completely misinterpreting our argument if you think we’re both arguing that the refereeing standard is good. My only point is that it goes both ways, and there’s not some grand conspiracy against the raiders.

And just in reference to the OP, how has this cost us third spot? *checks table, scratches head*
Spot on. At no point have either of us said the standard of refereeing is good.
I can speak for myself here and say i have said 100 times that the standard of refereeing is at an all time low and gets worse every year... not all of it their fault btw... what Stuart says about grey areas in the game is absolutely spot on. When you have so many areas of grey an interpretation, of course you'll have wildly inconsistent rulings. But every time the code tries to make a rule black and white, we get a bunch of idiots on the TV like Gould bitch and complain about how the people making the rules dont "understand footy" and they "lack common sense"
and a bunch of fans like woodgers telling us "But you have to have grey mate. If you apply the letter, you find a penalty every single tackle..."

There is 2 points we make about it:
1. It's the same low standard for everyone, and everyone is getting **** one way or another due to this low standard
and
2. there is exactly zero that we can do about it, so having a culture within the club where we bitch, complain and sook about every little thing that doesnt go our way is not helpful or useful, and does nothing to achieve anything.


To answer the questions
How should the NRL deal with refereeing errors?
Simply admit the errors, say the referees are human and doing the best they can under difficult circumstances and continue to do their best to improve the standard of refereeing

how do they do that?
Removing as much grey from the game as they can. The rules should be the rules. The obstruction rule this year is a great example... its really simply and easy now, you cant run around the player and receive an advantage, and player has to receive the football on the outside shoulder of a block runner. Easy. Simple. No ambiguity. And the controversy around the obstruction has disappeared... which isnt to say calls still dont get missed but it's lessened the impact dramatically
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by Woodgers » August 28, 2019, 9:38 am

My point on the grey though Pigman is you simply can't be black and white as you'd get a game of NFL where it is stopped more than it isn't. As a ref you're going to find players leaving the 10 slightly early and you have to use discretion whether that player is half a foot offside or 3 metres offside and use some discretion and common sense. That's the point I'm making there. Same as they have to use discretion on the laying in the ruck, sometimes the players are deliberately laying there to slow the ruck and it's easy to spot, other times you can easily see that the players are 'tangled' and common sense needs to be applied. You can't say for example have a rule where the tacklers have to be not touching the ball carrier within 5 seconds of held or it is a penalty. There are grey areas where forward passes for example wouldn't be given the same discretion to be marginally forward, it is what it is. I'm asking for common sense to be applied and I agree that opens it to interpretation and complaints but the actual way the game is played doesn't lend itself to rigid rules if you want it to be a successful spectator sport.

I don't think the officials have an easy job and I don't pretend they do. Having held the whistle a few times there is a lot to be looking for which is why I thought the 2 ref system would be beneficial to ease that load. Personally I have been trying to look beyond the officials and like I said in the Game Day thread you could make a case that obvious refereeing mistakes more than covered the 4 points we lost by on the weekend, but instead thought about why the game didn't go our way and what caused the breakdown of our attack to cover those points.

To answer the OP, nothing can be done after the game and I don't think fining refs is the answer either, they make mistakes. I also agree that there may be more scope to drop officials after clangers if there was any depth there but there isn't.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by PigRickman » August 28, 2019, 9:48 am

And my point is if you want to say the game has to flow a certain way and we want to minimise stoppages, and that discretion and grey areas are needed for that, then IMO, you just kind of have to accept it and eat **** on the fact the officiating will be a little inconsistent, and sometimes that grey and discretion allows for a greater margin for error and that margin will sometimes mean a man can be offside and take a game changing intercept.
I just think you have to accept thats the consequences of saying the referees need to have the ability to apply their own discretion
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by -TW- » August 28, 2019, 9:55 am

gergreg wrote:
raiderskater wrote:The problem is the nepotism. As long as the guy who appoints the referees is the brother of one nothing significant will ever happen.

And look at how hard it is for new refs to break in. The NRL was quick with all the hoopla and fanfare for their first female ref - but she hasn't reffed a game since, and her performance was fine. Instead they'd rather pick Sutton and Klein, who both have a gigantic laundry-list of errors.
I think I saw her refereeing on the w/e.

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She was,

She's refereed 3 or 4 games now

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by PigRickman » August 28, 2019, 9:57 am

Anyways i think the point im making across this thread and the Manly thread is imo, this isn't easy. Fixing officiating the the rules of RL is difficult because to do so you have to try maintain it as free flowing game, and not turn it into a game of union. Rule changes should be really carefully considered and as Robertson spoke to the other day, properly pressure tested to think about what it will actually mean in reality.

It's not easy, and the game gets more complicated every year. I guess i just accept that i dont have the answers and that the answers arent as simple and easy as some people seem to think.
Last edited by PigRickman on August 28, 2019, 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by Woodgers » August 28, 2019, 9:58 am

PigRickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 9:48 am
And my point is if you want to say the game has to flow a certain way and we want to minimise stoppages, and that discretion and grey areas are needed for that, then IMO, you just kind of have to accept it and eat **** on the fact the officiating will be a little inconsistent, and sometimes that grey and discretion allows for a man to be offside and take a game changing intercept.
I just think you have to accept thats the consequences of saying the referees need to have the ability to apply their own discretion
And generally I do but like you were saying with the NFL thing, there are rules that are grey there like holding which fans accept. Same as say cricket, you are more disillusioned with the absolutely plumb clanger the umpire in 4th grade Sydney comp would give out and the international umpire doesn't, than the one barely hitting the stumps where you can see it is a tough decision. People more of less get furious about the clanger than the marginal ones and for me that intercept was an easy one to pick off as a ref where it was obvious. That's why I said weeks ago I think the last time I legit blamed the refs for a Raiders loss was Cronulla away last year as there were a series of absolute howlers that affected the scoreline. Obviously the Raiders would have had good and bad calls since that game last season but not in the category that i'm suggesting. That's my point on the discretion and I think it also needs to be drummed into the media that you shouldn't be hammering officials for calls they get wrong where you have to get right into the detail of still cameras and whatnot to prove it right or wrong. That's a big problem in the game for me.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by papabear » August 28, 2019, 9:58 am

How could the manly game cost us the season.

If we arent good enough to beat who we are up against in the finals, whether we win or lose one game in the regular season means jack ****.

See 2016 we were great in the regular season.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by cat » August 28, 2019, 10:02 am

LastRaider wrote:Fines is the answer I believe. Hit them in their back pocket as they will soon improve once they see their pay cheque’s start to get eaten.

They should also recieve bonuses for good consistent performances as well
I actually like that idea, i get there is human error but there are cases like on Sunday that should not happen

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by Roger Kenworthy » August 28, 2019, 10:19 am

The 5 minute sin bin is a tool that would help the referees to such a degree it's quite unfathomable it hasn't been utilised. Imagine 3 penalties on the line you can just hit the defending team with a 5 minute bin and nobody spends the next two days debating the level of punishment, they might actually talk about the game instead. The 5 minute bin doesn't have the potential to swing the result massively but gives them enough of a deterrent to discourage cynical play.

5 minute bin for professional fouls and 10 minutes for dangerous fouls or repeated professional fouls. It is clear and easy to implement.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by The Rickman » August 28, 2019, 10:24 am

robtheraider wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:09 am
i'm firmly on the Ricky bandwagaon here...The rules are bathed in grey and are open to too much interpretation.

Good segment on 360 last night, where they highlighted how a competition with the same et of rules can see 8-10 penalties in one game and 24 penalties in the other.

I was also staggered when they highlighted that the video ref are directed to check offside for the attacking side when scoring a try, yet the defensive team is out of bounds....so even if the video ref had 100% and irrefutable evidence of the offside by Manly in the lead up to the intercept, the rules prohibit them from drawing this to the refs attention.
Ok, so here's one I disagree with (not having a go at you specifically rob, but have seen similar posts about this over the last few days and I'm finally at a computer).

Some games are just generally messier that others, so it absolutely makes sense that some will have high penalty counts and others low. To me it seems ludicrous to assume every game should have roughly the same amount of penalties blown OR that all teams should be penalised exactly the same amount.

Which brings me to my next point (which I know many of you agree with me on)... the "square-ups" of penalty counts. Oh man, nothing annoys me more. If it's a penalty, blow it. If a team is losing the penalty count 15-0 and they break the rules, blow another penalty. I absolutely hate when a team races out to a lead in the penalty count and the refs put the whistle away for that team and start actively looking for infringements to go against the other team. Just does my head in. The NRL actually got this right for a brief period at the start of last year or the year before (can't remember which one), it was great for rugby league, the spectacle actually improved with MORE penalties as the game was cleaned up... and then Gould and his cohorts down at Nein complained loudly and the NRL went back to how they've always done it.

We need to go back to that style of refereeing in my opinion... more black and white, less grey, if you see a penalty, blow it, ignore squareups, if the penalty count is 26-3, so be it. One team has a discipline problem and needs to sort it the **** out.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by Coastalraider » August 28, 2019, 10:28 am

The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 10:24 am
robtheraider wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:09 am
i'm firmly on the Ricky bandwagaon here...The rules are bathed in grey and are open to too much interpretation.

Good segment on 360 last night, where they highlighted how a competition with the same et of rules can see 8-10 penalties in one game and 24 penalties in the other.

I was also staggered when they highlighted that the video ref are directed to check offside for the attacking side when scoring a try, yet the defensive team is out of bounds....so even if the video ref had 100% and irrefutable evidence of the offside by Manly in the lead up to the intercept, the rules prohibit them from drawing this to the refs attention.
Ok, so here's one I disagree with (not having a go at you specifically rob, but have seen similar posts about this over the last few days and I'm finally at a computer).

Some games are just generally messier that others, so it absolutely makes sense that some will have high penalty counts and others low. To me it seems ludicrous to assume every game should have roughly the same amount of penalties blown OR that all teams should be penalised exactly the same amount.

Which brings me to my next point (which I know many of you agree with me on)... the "square-ups" of penalty counts. Oh man, nothing annoys me more. If it's a penalty, blow it. If a team is losing the penalty count 15-0 and they break the rules, blow another penalty. I absolutely hate when a team races out to a lead in the penalty count and the refs put the whistle away for that team and start actively looking for infringements to go against the other team. Just does my head in. The NRL actually got this right for a brief period at the start of last year or the year before, it was great for rugby league, the spectacle actually improved with MORE penalties as the game was cleaned up... and then Gould and his cohorts down at Nein complained loudly and the NRL went back to how they've always done it.

We need to go back to that style of refereeing in my opinion... more black and white, less grey, if you see a penalty, blow it, ignore squareups, if the penalty count is 26-3, so be it. One team has a discipline problem and needs to sort it the **** out.
I cannot stand square ups, and it pisses me off no end to see teams like Manly and the Sharks use the trend as a tactic - give away a heap of early ones and then have a clean run of infringing while the ref evens up the tally as the game progresses.

On your point of each game should in theory have different penalty totals, I do agree, however, in a game like the weekend, I think the use of the bin for repeated infringements would have not only cleaned the game up, but reduced the total. It was a messy game, but a big reason why it was is because the refs allowed it to be. If manly (or us) had a player sent early for repeats, I can guarantee the ruck would have cleaned up.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by greeneyed » August 28, 2019, 10:36 am

The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:44 am
gergreg wrote:I think there's a real opportunity here for Nickman and Pigman. Spokesmen for the referee. "Fans... you're all wrong... and you're a bunch of ****."

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I think you’re completely misinterpreting our argument if you think we’re both arguing that the refereeing standard is good. My only point is that it goes both ways, and there’s not some grand conspiracy against the raiders.

And just in reference to the OP, how has this cost us third spot? *checks table, scratches head*
No one is claiming there’s a conspiracy. You paint things as if that’s the only alternative viewpoint to “it goes both ways”. There are well grounded reasons to believe officiating in sports doesn’t go both ways, a well respected body of academic research which shows it. And explains why.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by PigRickman » August 28, 2019, 10:38 am

The idea of fining referees to me is pretty ridiculous.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by The Rickman » August 28, 2019, 10:47 am

greeneyed wrote:
August 28, 2019, 10:36 am
The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:44 am
gergreg wrote:I think there's a real opportunity here for Nickman and Pigman. Spokesmen for the referee. "Fans... you're all wrong... and you're a bunch of ****."

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I think you’re completely misinterpreting our argument if you think we’re both arguing that the refereeing standard is good. My only point is that it goes both ways, and there’s not some grand conspiracy against the raiders.

And just in reference to the OP, how has this cost us third spot? *checks table, scratches head*
No one is claiming there’s a conspiracy. You paint things as if that’s the only alternative viewpoint to “it goes both ways”. There are well grounded reasons to believe officiating in sports doesn’t go both ways, a well respected body of academic research which shows it. And explains why.
We've had this discussion ad nauseum now, Ferg. Unconscious bias exists in referees to the extent of home ground advantage, the referees going softer on a team once they're down by 18 points or so, star players getting away with more in regards to treatment from the refs, but hot tip: THOSE THINGS BENEFIT US TOO.

What's ridiculous and has always been ridiculous is the suggestion the raiders get more of the pineapple because the NRL hates us, and there's some massive plan out to get us in favour of the Roosters, the Broncos and the Storm. It's just not true and it's borderline lunacy to believe it.

I'm SO glad our coaching staff and team have chosen to go away from this kind of thinking too. And it's paying dividends on the field.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by BJ » August 28, 2019, 11:01 am

I’ve had my shot at incompetence in the refereeing ranks over the years, but I agree that they have not been helped by their NRL executive and the media in how the laws are designed.

The 5 minute sin bin sounds a worthwhile approach but I think there are some simple rule changes that would make it easier on the referee but also keep the game flowing.

Certain rules should not be a penalty, just a simple handover of possession.

Walking off the mark, not using the foot, taking a tap or kickoff with a player offside, taking a kick off the mark etc etc would be much easier for the ref to call if it resulted in a simple handover of possession. Currently a penalty seems too big a call for a referee to make in certain match situations. So they ignore them regularly.


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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by greeneyed » August 28, 2019, 11:06 am

The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 10:47 am
greeneyed wrote:
August 28, 2019, 10:36 am
The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:44 am
gergreg wrote:I think there's a real opportunity here for Nickman and Pigman. Spokesmen for the referee. "Fans... you're all wrong... and you're a bunch of ****."

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
I think you’re completely misinterpreting our argument if you think we’re both arguing that the refereeing standard is good. My only point is that it goes both ways, and there’s not some grand conspiracy against the raiders.

And just in reference to the OP, how has this cost us third spot? *checks table, scratches head*
No one is claiming there’s a conspiracy. You paint things as if that’s the only alternative viewpoint to “it goes both ways”. There are well grounded reasons to believe officiating in sports doesn’t go both ways, a well respected body of academic research which shows it. And explains why.
We've had this discussion ad nauseum now, Ferg. Unconscious bias exists in referees to the extent of home ground advantage, the referees going softer on a team once they're down by 18 points or so, star players getting away with more in regards to treatment from the refs, but hot tip: THOSE THINGS BENEFIT US TOO.

What's ridiculous and has always been ridiculous is the suggestion the raiders get more of the pineapple because the NRL hates us, and there's some massive plan out to get us in favour of the Roosters, the Broncos and the Storm. It's just not true and it's borderline lunacy to believe it.

I'm SO glad our coaching staff and team have chosen to go away from this kind of thinking too. And it's paying dividends on the field.
The issue is star athletes and teams get the benefit of unrecognised bias... and the Raiders don’t get treated as if they are or have any. Hopefully, one day, we might. By definition, the "star team/athlete" effect cannot be a matter of swings and roundabouts... by definition is does not "go both ways". Perhaps they might in the very long run... but we are all dead by then. Sadly the referees aren’t doing anything to deal with their unrecognised biases. If anything, with tip sheets etc, they make them worse.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by The Rickman » August 28, 2019, 11:06 am

BJ wrote:
August 28, 2019, 11:01 am
I’ve had my shot at incompetence in the refereeing ranks over the years, but I agree that they have not been helped by their NRL executive and the media in how the laws are designed.

The 5 minute sin bin sounds a worthwhile approach but I think there are some simple rule changes that would make it easier on the referee but also keep the game flowing.

Certain rules should not be a penalty, just a simple handover of possession.

Walking off the mark, not using the foot, taking a tap or kickoff with a player offside, taking a kick off the mark etc etc would be much easier for the ref to call if it resulted in a simple handover of possession. Currently a penalty seems too big a call for a referee to make in certain match situations. So they ignore them regularly.
Can't say I disagree with any of that.

They need to stop changing the interpretations of rules every half a season too. The poor old refs have no chance.
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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by gergreg » August 28, 2019, 11:14 am

PigRickman wrote:
The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:44 am
gergreg wrote:I think there's a real opportunity here for Nickman and Pigman. Spokesmen for the referee. "Fans... you're all wrong... and you're a bunch of ****."

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
I think you’re completely misinterpreting our argument if you think we’re both arguing that the refereeing standard is good. My only point is that it goes both ways, and there’s not some grand conspiracy against the raiders.

And just in reference to the OP, how has this cost us third spot? *checks table, scratches head*
Spot on. At no point have either of us said the standard of refereeing is good.
I can speak for myself here and say i have said 100 times that the standard of refereeing is at an all time low and gets worse every year... not all of it their fault btw... what Stuart says about grey areas in the game is absolutely spot on. When you have so many areas of grey an interpretation, of course you'll have wildly inconsistent rulings. But every time the code tries to make a rule black and white, we get a bunch of idiots on the TV like Gould bitch and complain about how the people making the rules dont "understand footy" and they "lack common sense"
and a bunch of fans like woodgers telling us "But you have to have grey mate. If you apply the letter, you find a penalty every single tackle..."

There is 2 points we make about it:
1. It's the same low standard for everyone, and everyone is getting **** one way or another due to this low standard
and
2. there is exactly zero that we can do about it, so having a culture within the club where we bitch, complain and sook about every little thing that doesnt go our way is not helpful or useful, and does nothing to achieve anything.


To answer the questions
How should the NRL deal with refereeing errors?
Simply admit the errors, say the referees are human and doing the best they can under difficult circumstances and continue to do their best to improve the standard of refereeing

how do they do that?
Removing as much grey from the game as they can. The rules should be the rules. The obstruction rule this year is a great example... its really simply and easy now, you cant run around the player and receive an advantage, and player has to receive the football on the outside shoulder of a block runner. Easy. Simple. No ambiguity. And the controversy around the obstruction has disappeared... which isnt to say calls still dont get missed but it's lessened the impact dramatically
My post was a joke btw.

I was only having a discussion with a fellow league fan yesterday (Manly fan, so it was a Lucy/punish type discussion) and I was explaining to him that there are too many grey areas. At the moment there are too few black and white areas of the game. If you punch a bloke, it's a sinbin. If you are penalised and a quick tap is taken and you tackle the bloke in an offside position, it's a sinbin. The players know it, the fans know and the referees job is much easier. There needs to be more black and white in the game. The punishing Manly fan agreed.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by BJ » August 28, 2019, 12:32 pm

I could handle more black and white rules for penalties and sin bin situations.

But in those grey area and minor rulings, I could handle a handover for attacking team indiscretions or a seven tackle set for low range defensive indiscretions.

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Re: How should the NRL deal with significant refereeing errors?

Post by robtheraider » August 28, 2019, 12:48 pm

The Rickman wrote:
August 28, 2019, 10:24 am
robtheraider wrote:
August 28, 2019, 8:09 am
i'm firmly on the Ricky bandwagaon here...The rules are bathed in grey and are open to too much interpretation.

Good segment on 360 last night, where they highlighted how a competition with the same et of rules can see 8-10 penalties in one game and 24 penalties in the other.

I was also staggered when they highlighted that the video ref are directed to check offside for the attacking side when scoring a try, yet the defensive team is out of bounds....so even if the video ref had 100% and irrefutable evidence of the offside by Manly in the lead up to the intercept, the rules prohibit them from drawing this to the refs attention.
Ok, so here's one I disagree with (not having a go at you specifically rob, but have seen similar posts about this over the last few days and I'm finally at a computer).

Some games are just generally messier that others, so it absolutely makes sense that some will have high penalty counts and others low. To me it seems ludicrous to assume every game should have roughly the same amount of penalties blown OR that all teams should be penalised exactly the same amount.

Which brings me to my next point (which I know many of you agree with me on)... the "square-ups" of penalty counts. Oh man, nothing annoys me more. If it's a penalty, blow it. If a team is losing the penalty count 15-0 and they break the rules, blow another penalty. I absolutely hate when a team races out to a lead in the penalty count and the refs put the whistle away for that team and start actively looking for infringements to go against the other team. Just does my head in. The NRL actually got this right for a brief period at the start of last year or the year before (can't remember which one), it was great for rugby league, the spectacle actually improved with MORE penalties as the game was cleaned up... and then Gould and his cohorts down at Nein complained loudly and the NRL went back to how they've always done it.

We need to go back to that style of refereeing in my opinion... more black and white, less grey, if you see a penalty, blow it, ignore squareups, if the penalty count is 26-3, so be it. One team has a discipline problem and needs to sort it the **** out.
To a degree I also agree with this point.

The point was being made though that in most games, there is ample opportunity to blow 20-25 penalties but the refs choose not to... and this is a point that I agree with. To demonstrate they compared a tackle by the Melbourne winger against Souths a few weeks back, where a normal 1 on 1 tackle with no hint of dominance. The Melbourne winger looked at the ref and just layed there for a good 6-7 seconds before rolling off and play on. In comparison, the played Wightons tackle on Sunday where he completely dominated the Manly player and placed him on his back, yet after 3 seconds was penalised for laying in the tackle

My attempt to capture the essence of the conversation is not as eloquent as i'd like it to be, and by no means were they saying the raiders were victims....just highlighting the inconsistencies
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