Halfback

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89_90_94_??
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Halfback

Post by 89_90_94_?? » August 26, 2019, 4:41 am

When was the last time the raiders had a decent, reliable number 7? The type of half that you trusted and believed could win you the big games. Are we the only club in the NRL who have to go back 20 years (Ricky) to find one? You could make an argument for Carney but how long did that last.
There are 5 contenders this year.
At the top you have the roosters and storm, the two clear favourites to win the premiership. The 2nd tier is the eagles, the rabbits and us, who on there day and with a bit of luck, give themselves a chance to beat anyone.
The roosters have Cooper, yes he’s getting on and is about to hang up the boots, but still steps up when needed. How many premierships has he won again?
The storm are still trying to find Cooper’s replacement, but when you have the best number 9 in the game, the Australian number 6, and a fullback who can play as a half it doesn’t matter who you play at 7.
The Eagles have DCE, hate him or love him, he will be wearing the number 7 for Australia in a few months time and is a proven match winner.
The rabbits have Reynolds, a competitive solid first grader with the best kicking game in the league, a premiership winner.
Can we win the 2019 NRL premiership with Sezer? I just don’t know.
G.Williams must be a success for this club to move forward IMO.

LastRaider
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Halfback

Post by LastRaider » August 26, 2019, 7:42 am

Short answer no and it’s really came clear over the last 3 matches.

You can tell Hodgson only goes to Sezer as a last resort and when we do need Sezer to step up for a play he just doesn’t have it and continually makes an error.

The big games are won by the moments and unfortunately we don’t have a half (incl Jack) who can step up at this stage.

2020 could be our year if G.Williams is as good as what everyone sez!

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Re: Halfback

Post by Roger Kenworthy » August 26, 2019, 8:34 am

McLinden had a hot streak at the end of 2003 where he was looking amazing at halfback. That was the last time I'd say we had a 7 that could lead us to wins over top 4 teams at the back end of the season. It also only last a couple of months.

I think Sezer is trying to do too much. The million dollar ball to Rapana was him reverting to form and trying to go beyond his skill set. Needs to get back to basics over the next couple of weeks.

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Re: Halfback

Post by PigRickman » August 26, 2019, 8:47 am

Everyone is aware halfback is a problem, and has been for the vast majority of the club's post Stuart history.

Can we win a comp with Sezer at halfback? I think we can, and for now lets move past the debate about whether Sezer is good, average or bad... and lets assume the worst and say he's bad, bad halfbacks have won comps before because either a) they've hit a purple patch of form at the right time, and more likely b) they played a simple role within their limitations and let the quality around them drive it.

If we want to win a comp this year, and i think we can and will, it will be because Sezer plays well enough to be fine and that guys like CNK, Croker, Cotric, Rapana, Beej, Bateman, Papalii, Whitehead, and most importantly, Hodgson and Wighton provide us enough x-factor and make the plays they need to, to get us over the line in tight games

Long term, George Williams is obviously the next great hope. And hopefully he lives up to his billing. If he's as good a halfback as Hodgson is a hooker, we're going to win a comp with him.
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pacman
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Re: Halfback

Post by pacman » August 26, 2019, 9:20 am

PigRickman wrote:
August 26, 2019, 8:47 am
Everyone is aware halfback is a problem, and has been for the vast majority of the club's post Stuart history.

Can we win a comp with Sezer at halfback? I think we can, and for now lets move past the debate about whether Sezer is good, average or bad... and lets assume the worst and say he's bad, bad halfbacks have won comps before because either a) they've hit a purple patch of form at the right time, and more likely b) they played a simple role within their limitations and let the quality around them drive it.

If we want to win a comp this year, and i think we can and will, it will be because Sezer plays well enough to be fine and that guys like CNK, Croker, Cotric, Rapana, Beej, Bateman, Papalii, Whitehead, and most importantly, Hodgson and Wighton provide us enough x-factor and make the plays they need to, to get us over the line in tight games

Long term, George Williams is obviously the next great hope. And hopefully he lives up to his billing. If he's as good a halfback as Hodgson is a hooker, we're going to win a comp with him.
Well said. Everyone and anyone will agree that halfback has been an issue for us for too long and I would really like a more in depth response from management as to what recruitment strategy this is due to..

However, Sezer is the best we have at the moment. As long as he defends well and doesn't do anything terrible, the guys mentioned can take us all the way if they are at their best.

Unfortunately that means that they can be nothing but at their absolute best.

89_90_94_??
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Re: Halfback

Post by 89_90_94_?? » August 26, 2019, 9:46 am

Cronk- 2018, 2017, 2012
Thurstan- 2015
Reynolds-2014
Pearce- 2013
DCE- 2011
Soward- 2010

Recent results indicate you need a dominate ball playing half to win the big dance.
Townsead in 2016 is the only exception but he had maloney out side him, and is a step above Sezer imo. I do agree with pigrickmans comment, if the rest of the team fire it could happen.

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Re: Halfback

Post by Ronny P » August 26, 2019, 10:33 am

After watching the games yesterday we have absolutely nothing in reserve grade other than Sam! Ohagan drifts in and out of games. Hingano been injured a fair bit of this year however looks like more of a 6 than a 7 based off games i watched before his last injury. Our 20’s halves seem to compliment each other well yesterday. Subloo looks like the running 6 and 7 Westcott is just the little general calling the shots and steering the ship. Jury still out on G Wiliams. Great crowd yesterday.


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Bay 67
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Re: Halfback

Post by Bay 67 » August 26, 2019, 10:42 am

Manly did a very good job of taking Sezer out of the game yesterday. They obviously had a plan to rush up and shut down any ability for Sezer to run or shift the ball wide... after a while Hodgson just stopped going right which starved our edges of ball.

I reckon Sticky will spend a lot of video time on that this week.

After the third time the Manly defensive line rushed up and smashed our halfback (mostly for an offside position mind you), I don't understand why we didn't play a little deeper or look to get Charnze more involved either inside off Sezer or running wide behind Sezer off the ruck to attack the space that those rushing defenders left on the outside.
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Re: Halfback

Post by Coastalraider » August 26, 2019, 11:00 am

Bay 67 wrote:
August 26, 2019, 10:42 am
Manly did a very good job of taking Sezer out of the game yesterday. They obviously had a plan to rush up and shut down any ability for Sezer to run or shift the ball wide... after a while Hodgson just stopped going right which starved our edges of ball.

I reckon Sticky will spend a lot of video time on that this week.

After the third time the Manly defensive line rushed up and smashed our halfback (mostly for an offside position mind you), I don't understand why we didn't play a little deeper or look to get Charnze more involved either inside off Sezer or running wide behind Sezer off the ruck to attack the space that those rushing defenders left on the outside.
Yep, I thought after the second attempt that CNK needed to be running off Sezers left shoulder - one of two things would happen - Walker stops the rush, giving Sezer space and ability to play to the edge, or, CNK has a HUGE gap in the line to run through and set up the outside men.

LastRaider
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Halfback

Post by LastRaider » August 26, 2019, 11:12 am

Bay 67 wrote:Manly did a very good job of taking Sezer out of the game yesterday. They obviously had a plan to rush up and shut down any ability for Sezer to run or shift the ball wide... after a while Hodgson just stopped going right which starved our edges of ball.

I reckon Sticky will spend a lot of video time on that this week.

After the third time the Manly defensive line rushed up and smashed our halfback (mostly for an offside position mind you), I don't understand why we didn't play a little deeper or look to get Charnze more involved either inside off Sezer or running wide behind Sezer off the ruck to attack the space that those rushing defenders left on the outside.
Manly did a very good job of taking Sezer out of the game.... what???? He was never a viable point scoring option for Hodgson that’s why the ball never went to him. The only time it found him was for a mid field clearing kick and that’s the way it should be!

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Matt
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Re: Halfback

Post by Matt » August 26, 2019, 12:07 pm

PigRickman wrote:
August 26, 2019, 8:47 am
Everyone is aware halfback is a problem, and has been for the vast majority of the club's post Stuart history.

Can we win a comp with Sezer at halfback? I think we can, and for now lets move past the debate about whether Sezer is good, average or bad... and lets assume the worst and say he's bad, bad halfbacks have won comps before because either a) they've hit a purple patch of form at the right time, and more likely b) they played a simple role within their limitations and let the quality around them drive it.

If we want to win a comp this year, and i think we can and will, it will be because Sezer plays well enough to be fine and that guys like CNK, Croker, Cotric, Rapana, Beej, Bateman, Papalii, Whitehead, and most importantly, Hodgson and Wighton provide us enough x-factor and make the plays they need to, to get us over the line in tight games

Long term, George Williams is obviously the next great hope. And hopefully he lives up to his billing. If he's as good a halfback as Hodgson is a hooker, we're going to win a comp with him.
^^^ THIS

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Re: Halfback

Post by Matt » August 26, 2019, 12:09 pm

Bay 67 wrote:
August 26, 2019, 10:42 am
Manly did a very good job of taking Sezer out of the game yesterday. They obviously had a plan to rush up and shut down any ability for Sezer to run or shift the ball wide... after a while Hodgson just stopped going right which starved our edges of ball.

I reckon Sticky will spend a lot of video time on that this week.

After the third time the Manly defensive line rushed up and smashed our halfback (mostly for an offside position mind you), I don't understand why we didn't play a little deeper or look to get Charnze more involved either inside off Sezer or running wide behind Sezer off the ruck to attack the space that those rushing defenders left on the outside.
Its funny, but I said that during the game, so did a couple of others around me. So, why can wee see it, and they dont??!

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Re: Halfback

Post by afgtnk » August 26, 2019, 12:46 pm

Don't think we can win it with Sezer there, which is the same as what I thought in 2016. There are certain things we need from a halfback when the going is tough, or when we're in finals, and Sezer gives us none of them. That leaves Hodgson and Wighton with far too much to do by themselves.

Manly shut down his entire game centred around 'providing clean ball to the backs', and without that he's nigh on useless because he doesn't have enough diversity in his game or smarts to adjust. You can bet your bottom dollar that other teams took notice.

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Re: Halfback

Post by rayden83 » August 26, 2019, 1:26 pm

We were looking pretty good until about 3 weeks ago when playing the Roosters Hodgson decided he was both half back and hooker and since then our performance has slid. We just need to go back to the structure and formation when we were on our winning streak, where Sezer had a lot more creative control and for fleeting moments looked like a half decent NRL half. Hodgson trying to be the brains trust of the attack just makes us look clumsy and predictable imo. For sure Sezer is limited but you're not going to make or win the grand final with your half back relegated to a bystander.

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Re: Halfback

Post by Billy Walker » August 26, 2019, 9:16 pm

rayden83 wrote:
August 26, 2019, 1:26 pm
We were looking pretty good until about 3 weeks ago when playing the Roosters Hodgson decided he was both half back and hooker and since then our performance has slid. We just need to go back to the structure and formation when we were on our winning streak, where Sezer had a lot more creative control and for fleeting moments looked like a half decent NRL half. Hodgson trying to be the brains trust of the attack just makes us look clumsy and predictable imo. For sure Sezer is limited but you're not going to make or win the grand final with your half back relegated to a bystander.
I think you make a fair point there

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Re: Halfback

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » August 29, 2019, 7:24 am

I’ve been thinking about this lately. Everyone talks about Parramatta’s “Sterlo curse” because they haven’t had a decent half since then, but we could have our own Sticky Curse*.

Who do you think has the worst history with Halves? I say us.

*Title of Boneheads sex tape


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Re: Halfback

Post by raider dos » August 29, 2019, 9:49 am

I reckon when Sezer threw the big looping ball that wound up landing behind raps, Rapana was expecting Sezer to grubber in behind Manlys rushing defense.

Which would have been a far better option at that point in the game too, it would have put them in two minds about rushing up, and also, raps would have easily scored untouched.

I've looked at that replay a few times now and can't help but wish he had just kicked the damn thing!

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Re: Halfback

Post by LastRaider » August 29, 2019, 12:39 pm

raider dos wrote:I reckon when Sezer threw the big looping ball that wound up landing behind raps, Rapana was expecting Sezer to grubber in behind Manlys rushing defense.

Which would have been a far better option at that point in the game too, it would have put them in two minds about rushing up, and also, raps would have easily scored untouched.

I've looked at that replay a few times now and can't help but wish he had just kicked the damn thing!
But playing the percentages it was probably Sezer’s best play. He is a 50% chances these days of kicking into the defences feet!

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Re: Halfback

Post by BigMan » August 29, 2019, 2:30 pm

BRING BACK CORNISH!!!!!!! Killing it with Goulburn and was still wanted by Trent Robinson.

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Re: Halfback

Post by -TW- » August 29, 2019, 2:52 pm

No.

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Re: Halfback

Post by raider dos » August 29, 2019, 3:42 pm

LastRaider wrote:
August 29, 2019, 12:39 pm
raider dos wrote:I reckon when Sezer threw the big looping ball that wound up landing behind raps, Rapana was expecting Sezer to grubber in behind Manlys rushing defense.

Which would have been a far better option at that point in the game too, it would have put them in two minds about rushing up, and also, raps would have easily scored untouched.

I've looked at that replay a few times now and can't help but wish he had just kicked the damn thing!
But playing the percentages it was probably Sezer’s best play. He is a 50% chances these days of kicking into the defences feet!
You could have parked a truck in the gap he ran towards between Walker and Thompson. But he just threw it over the top. He clearly intended to do that all along and just didn't pay any attention to what was unfolding in front of him. Needs to lift his head

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Re: Halfback

Post by PigRickman » August 29, 2019, 8:12 pm

I feel like i should just copy and paste previous posts about why the jamming defence is effective when it's done correctly.
On that play Manly elicited the exact play the jamming defence is intended to produce.

It's a coaching point because if teams are going to jam us, there are ways to attack that, and we need to be prepared to attack it... Expecting Sezer to routinely hit that pass is not reasonable. There is about 4-5 halves in the comp who can do that.

Others remarked on it previously but if we played manly again, very early in the game we should be running some set peices with Sezer essentially acting as a block runner and playing directly out the back to CNK... if Walker on those plays actually comes in, they are shot to bits. If he doesnt, they'll have the numbers but showing that early will put a lot of doubt in the mind of Walker about jamming in and that doubt will allow us to get back to playing within our desired structure.
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Re: Halfback

Post by The Rickman » August 30, 2019, 6:49 am

PigRickman wrote: Expecting Sezer to routinely hit that pass is not reasonable. There is about 4-5 halves in the comp who can do that.
4-5 halves in the comp and affhghgjtktk and his mates down the park
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Re: Halfback

Post by Coastalraider » August 30, 2019, 8:21 am

PigRickman wrote:
August 29, 2019, 8:12 pm
I feel like i should just copy and paste previous posts about why the jamming defence is effective when it's done correctly.
On that play Manly elicited the exact play the jamming defence is intended to produce.

It's a coaching point because if teams are going to jam us, there are ways to attack that, and we need to be prepared to attack it... Expecting Sezer to routinely hit that pass is not reasonable. There is about 4-5 halves in the comp who can do that.

Others remarked on it previously but if we played manly again, very early in the game we should be running some set peices with Sezer essentially acting as a block runner and playing directly out the back to CNK... if Walker on those plays actually comes in, they are shot to bits. If he doesnt, they'll have the numbers but showing that early will put a lot of doubt in the mind of Walker about jamming in and that doubt will allow us to get back to playing within our desired structure.
Nailed it. CNK hanging off his inside shoulder creates so many options. I really hoe they have been working on it this week, because without it, the clever teams and coaches we will be playing from here on in (minus the warriors) will shut down that side of the field quite easily, forcing every attacking option to the left through Jack.

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Re: Halfback

Post by PigRickman » August 30, 2019, 8:40 am

Look i dont think it's THAT big a deal. Even teams who jam a lot, like us and manly dont do it that often, it's maybe 5-10 times a game, usually on key 4th tackles to shut down the "set" play in the red zone and get to the kick tackle.

Manly didn't really shut down that side of the field, we attacked pretty freely down that side most of the game, there was 3-4 times where Walker jammed hard and stopped the ball. But they it's not like every single time we went to that side, the ball was stopped at the half.

But like anything you need to have your plan B's worked out. And if nothing else, you want to show different shapes, and structures and options to a defence to cast some doubt in their minds. And it maybe that teams do jam us a little more after this, so knowing how we're going to attack that if they do is something we need to do
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July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
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Re: Halfback

Post by afgtnk » August 30, 2019, 9:39 am

The Rickman wrote:
August 30, 2019, 6:49 am
PigRickman wrote: Expecting Sezer to routinely hit that pass is not reasonable. There is about 4-5 halves in the comp who can do that.
4-5 halves in the comp and affhghgjtktk and his mates down the park
You don't need to mention that mate; it's a given.

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Re: Halfback

Post by The Rickman » August 30, 2019, 9:40 am

afgtnk wrote:
August 30, 2019, 9:39 am
The Rickman wrote:
August 30, 2019, 6:49 am
PigRickman wrote: Expecting Sezer to routinely hit that pass is not reasonable. There is about 4-5 halves in the comp who can do that.
4-5 halves in the comp and affhghgjtktk and his mates down the park
You don't need to mention that mate; it's a given.
Haha good point, fairgoitall
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