Our inability to handle the niggle

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Azza
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Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 6:41 pm

To me there are two major weaknesses that remain in this Raiders side, despite the huge way we have come this year:

(1) We absolutely cannot help but be drawn into the niggle by teams that play that style. Sharks and Sea Eagles are the classic examples, and until we develop the discipline NOT to get suckered in we will keep losing these games. I feel like we just don't know how to respond effectively whenever we face a team who is niggling in the ruck, standing offside, etc. The reffing doesn't help but we can't be depending on the refs to penalise, given the standard of officiating in the NRL these days.

(2) Still think our 7 doesn't do enough when the game is on the line, but that's a different topic which has already been discussed ad nauseum.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Azza on August 25, 2019, 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Pete Cash » August 25, 2019, 6:45 pm

It has been painful watching us play those teams in recent years.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by PigRickman » August 25, 2019, 6:47 pm

Its the only weakness we have left.
They really get us off our game badly, we get too into trying to one up them in the niggle. It'll be a problem we need to address before the finals, because the Storm, Roosters, Manly and Souths all love it. So we're going to see plenty of it
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
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Matt wrote:
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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 6:49 pm

PigRickMan - I'm not going to call you a muppet for saying we weren't going to lose a game again this year, but I will say I had a feeling this would happen today and was curious as to what our response would be. Hodgson and Croker both admitted the team got drawn into it and it threw them off their game. What's the answer? Just better discipline and mental focus?

We will absolutely get targeted by teams using this tactic until we learn to overcome it. It's sad, because it's not footy, but we need to be better than it.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by GreenMachine » August 25, 2019, 7:09 pm

We’re dealing with the No.7 problem next season.

We are easily baited with the niggle.

Can’t see us winning the comp this season now. Today, for me, highlighted our flaws as a team when it comes to winning the close semi final type matches. It’s disappointing, but reality has set in for me. I wanted to believe but after today, I can’t.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by PigRickman » August 25, 2019, 7:10 pm

Good! Because we won this game if not for the offside try, which was 8 points!!

But on topic, i dont know, i raised it pre game as a concern for me. I dont think it's about better discipline and mental focus because i think for the most part this team is a focused and disciplined team... but i guess it is a discipline issue, so maybe it falls under that general guise. But it's a little different to that.

We have firey guys. Wighton, Hodgson, Rapana, Beej, Whitehead, Bateman, Hors, hell even Sezer a bit up for it... these are some of our "senior" guys and they are absolutely on it.

I think it's got to made a huge focus from the coach. I dont know how he goes about doing it, maybe it's a monday morning spray, maybe it's a fall guy who gets SHOT OUT OF A ROCKET into mounties for a week and the coach making it clear publicaly and privately its for lack of composure in dealing with the niggle. I dont know but i dont think you can just say "We just gotta be better" and move on

It's an achillies heel and the teams we're competing with know and will use it. We have to be above it.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 7:13 pm

We lost that huge match in Canberra in 2016 vs the Sharks due to the same tactics as today. And a number of matches in between in the ensuing seasons. They know it's a problem, now it's up to them to fix it. I reckon we play a style of footy that is more attractive than any of the other top sides bar the Roosters. I just think we don't respond well to the spoiling tactics and go away from our game plan - Ricky said as much in the presser.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Northern Raider » August 25, 2019, 7:21 pm

We just came from 18-0 down to beat the kings of niggle. We're fine at handling it this year.

Refs need to take some responsibility for containing it as well. Manly were happy to keep testing them today and ultimately won that battle.
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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by PigRickman » August 25, 2019, 7:25 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
August 25, 2019, 7:21 pm
We just came from 18-0 down to beat the kings of niggle. We're fine at handling it this year.

Refs need to take some responsibility for containing it as well. Manly were happy to keep testing them today and ultimately won that battle.
I think the type of niggle that the Sharks and Manly employ, and that is effective in getting us off our game is different to the storm. Though certainly they dabble in it but their modus operandi is not the push, shove, **** talk, lets bait you into starting a fight... it's ruck minipulation.
We can deal with the latter, its the former we're constantly exposed by. I think the team takes on a little of the coach here, we're a little overly emotional.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 7:26 pm

Yeah I agree with Piggy - the Storm don't use that same style the Sharks and Manly use. I disagree "we're fine at handling it" - and as I say, I think Ricky knows it as well.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Pete Cash » August 25, 2019, 7:35 pm

Sledging absolutely wrecks us lol. I remember a game against Manly a few years ago where Walker had all our players frothing from the mouth and they got a come back going.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Billy Walker » August 25, 2019, 7:37 pm

PigRickman wrote:
August 25, 2019, 7:10 pm
Good! Because we won this game if not for the offside try, which was 8 points!!

But on topic, i dont know, i raised it pre game as a concern for me. I dont think it's about better discipline and mental focus because i think for the most part this team is a focused and disciplined team... but i guess it is a discipline issue, so maybe it falls under that general guise. But it's a little different to that.

We have firey guys. Wighton, Hodgson, Rapana, Beej, Whitehead, Bateman, Hors, hell even Sezer a bit up for it... these are some of our "senior" guys and they are absolutely on it.

I think it's got to made a huge focus from the coach. I dont know how he goes about doing it, maybe it's a monday morning spray, maybe it's a fall guy who gets SHOT OUT OF A ROCKET into mounties for a week and the coach making it clear publicaly and privately its for lack of composure in dealing with the niggle. I dont know but i dont think you can just say "We just gotta be better" and move on

It's an achillies heel and the teams we're competing with know and will use it. We have to be above it.
Spot on! You are 100% correct. The only thing I’d add in that we have 2 captains and a range of other senior on field leaders like Sia, Paps, Whitehead - is there an onfield leadership issue here that the leaders either aren’t reigning it in or the knuckleheads aren’t listening?

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 7:54 pm

It's disappointing as well, because I feel like when we play our style of footy rather than get sucked in, we are an extremely good team to watch, better than most of the other top sides bar the Roosters actually.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by edwahu » August 25, 2019, 8:18 pm

Its not just niggle, it's the way teams spoil the ruck and are constantly offside at key moments in those games.

We can not get sucked into niggle and other than BJ's random effort we didn't get sucked in today from what I could see. What we can't control is how the other spoiling tactics are reffed.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » August 25, 2019, 8:24 pm

edwahu wrote:Its not just niggle, it's the way teams spoil the ruck and are constantly offside at key moments in those games.

We can not get sucked into niggle and other than BJ's random effort we didn't get sucked in today from what I could see. What we can't control is how the other spoiling tactics are reffed.
And Jacks punch on with that Manly player
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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 8:30 pm

edwahu wrote:
August 25, 2019, 8:18 pm
Its not just niggle, it's the way teams spoil the ruck and are constantly offside at key moments in those games.

We can not get sucked into niggle and other than BJ's random effort we didn't get sucked in today from what I could see. What we can't control is how the other spoiling tactics are reffed.
Your first paragraph is exactly how I would describe niggle

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by edwahu » August 25, 2019, 8:31 pm

Azza wrote:
August 25, 2019, 8:30 pm
edwahu wrote:
August 25, 2019, 8:18 pm
Its not just niggle, it's the way teams spoil the ruck and are constantly offside at key moments in those games.

We can not get sucked into niggle and other than BJ's random effort we didn't get sucked in today from what I could see. What we can't control is how the other spoiling tactics are reffed.
Your first paragraph is exactly how I would describe niggle
I think of niggle as more the Cameron Smith on Simo or NAS stuff from last week.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 8:34 pm

Ah nah I'm using it in that broader sense teams standing offside eccetera. we lost the final in Canberra against the sharks in 2016 for very similar reasons today's game reminded me a lot of that

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Northern Raider » August 25, 2019, 8:35 pm

I think all teams struggle when teams like Manly get away with the stuff they do.
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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 8:38 pm

That they do. But we are aiming to go from a very good side to being a top tier side and this is the sort of stuff we need to get on top of in order to achieve that

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by PigRickman » August 25, 2019, 8:50 pm

Azza wrote:
August 25, 2019, 8:38 pm
That they do. But we are aiming to go from a very good side to being a top tier side and this is the sort of stuff we need to get on top of in order to achieve that
Yep, the differnece between being one of the best and being the BEST is managing this.
I was pumped about Stuart's presser, i think he's with us on this, i think he knows this is the potential issue and he'll address it
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Azza » August 25, 2019, 8:53 pm

I hope you're right mate. Because in all honesty this has been a problem for this side for a number of years .it's just getting highlighted more because we've addressed a lot of our other weaknesses

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by BadnMean » August 25, 2019, 9:13 pm

What niggle penalties did we cop today?

BJ was out and out dumb, not a reaction to "niggle" as he was free and clear by 50m and 30 seconds of any potential "niggle". That was just BJ warming into the season- BJ being BJ. We all remember the good times but he had to clear his pipes of that stuff too apparently.

I don't remember anything else being factor. I;d say it was a non- niggly game if you ignore the FOX guts trying to build it up and just watch it.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by PigRickman » August 25, 2019, 9:23 pm

we conceded a TON of penalties from work in the ruck that was simply engaging in their ****. That's how i felt watching the game. And as the OP says, this has been a long standing issue, we have struggled in this area a lot, it showed up last week and will be a thing again this week. And into the finals.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Northern Raider » August 25, 2019, 9:45 pm

BadnMean wrote:
August 25, 2019, 9:13 pm
What niggle penalties did we cop today?

BJ was out and out dumb, not a reaction to "niggle" as he was free and clear by 50m and 30 seconds of any potential "niggle". That was just BJ warming into the season- BJ being BJ. We all remember the good times but he had to clear his pipes of that stuff too apparently.

I don't remember anything else being factor. I;d say it was a non- niggly game if you ignore the FOX guts trying to build it up and just watch it.
Why am I suddenly thinking of BJ and hair gel. :|
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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by woppadingo » August 25, 2019, 10:28 pm

I thought a bigger problem was our failure to adjust to Manly rushing out and putting our first receiver under pressure. We could have just stood a little deeper, or gone a shorter pass a few times to put them in two minds. Our attack was very effectively shut down with that tactic.
I was disappointed Sezer/Wighton didn't pick up on it in the First half but thought Ricky would have dealt with it at half time. But nope.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by edwahu » August 26, 2019, 10:15 am

*edit* I'll leave you guys to it.
Last edited by edwahu on August 26, 2019, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Wiki Special » August 26, 2019, 11:04 am

Manly play extremely ugly football and did use niggling tactics yesterday to unsettle us. But I think the below mistakes by the refs were what hurt us;

1. Wighton 'No Try'. I truly believe this was a try in the same vein as Croker's first try last week.

2. Manly being offside before the intercept leading to the 8 point try.

3. Sutton being penalised for an incorrect play the ball. The ref indicated no attempt to use the foot but he clearly did attempt to use the foot.

4. The penalty for incorrect markers when Fonua-Blake walked 3 metres off the mark. Our markers were out of position but because of the opposition indiscretion.

5. The penalty on Whitehead (I think) for stripping just before the Jake T. try. The Manly player just dropped it when we tried to wrap up the offload. Teams will try this tactic going forward.

6. The Manly trainer claiming Boyle needed to be escorted from the field when he clearly wasn't injured just to stop our momentum. Just like the Roosters 2 weeks ago, I see other teams doing this going forward as a tactic.

Basically, I think the refs significantly contributed to the 'niggle' from Manly. If the game was officiated properly we win handsomely.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Coastalraider » August 26, 2019, 12:33 pm

Azza wrote:
August 25, 2019, 6:49 pm
PigRickMan - I'm not going to call you a muppet for saying we weren't going to lose a game again this year, but I will say I had a feeling this would happen today and was curious as to what our response would be. Hodgson and Croker both admitted the team got drawn into it and it threw them off their game. What's the answer? Just better discipline and mental focus?

We will absolutely get targeted by teams using this tactic until we learn to overcome it. It's sad, because it's not footy, but we need to be better than it.
While its disappointing that it has happened again, playing the Sharks this week is the perfect time to try and address it while the memory is fresh.

Having said that, Galen was on the sidelines yesterday, and must be licking his lips.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Coastalraider » August 26, 2019, 12:54 pm

Azza wrote:
August 25, 2019, 8:30 pm
edwahu wrote:
August 25, 2019, 8:18 pm
Its not just niggle, it's the way teams spoil the ruck and are constantly offside at key moments in those games.

We can not get sucked into niggle and other than BJ's random effort we didn't get sucked in today from what I could see. What we can't control is how the other spoiling tactics are reffed.
Your first paragraph is exactly how I would describe niggle
Exactly - I would go so far as to stop calling it 'niggle' and describe it as disruption tactics.

We are a team that plays amazing footy off the back of momentum. Our forwards can get a quick play the ball, Hodgo is a gun with some space, our edges are dynamite with room to run and ball play, getting themselves into 1 on 1 positions.

So how do teams WITHOUT these skills combat it? They spoil all our momentum and style.
  • Slow the play the ball down by lying in the ruck
  • Slow the play my doing anything in the ruck that delays the play the ball
  • Not have your markers square to shut down the outside backs dummy half run (Im looking at you Rapa, why do you insist on taking on the marker - it hasn't been called all year!)
  • Rush the ball playing halves and take away their time and space
  • Give away a heap of first half penalties meaning you get carte blanche for the duration of the game when the even ups come into play
  • Stand offside at strategic times to dictate the direction of play
  • give away 2-3 penalties in succession within the red zone to disrupt all flow of the game
  • Fire your A or B defender out of the line quick in the the red zone to shut down dummy half passing lanes - how many times do we see Hodgo shape one way only to have to turn to the other side of the field as his options have disappeared?
And my new favourite:
  • Strategically call for stoppage of play for injury/HIA to disrupt momentum of attacking team
Start ticking the list boys, both Manly and the Sharks are the masters of this disruptive play, and it absolutely throws our boys into disarray.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by BadnMean » August 26, 2019, 1:01 pm

edwahu wrote:
August 26, 2019, 10:15 am
I got sick of wondering about whether some of my assumptions are correct so I went and found the detailed stats for every penalty since 2014. These are the number of ruck and offside penalties conceeded for regular season games over that period (2019 I only have until round 10 at the moment, so I excluded it). Possession differences are very small (2 or 3% max) over that period, so I have not adjusted to account for it.

Image

To me, this reflects how I feel about the way we are reffed. We are not the cleanest team, but at the same time I don't think we are the worst and no way are we so far ahead of certain other teams. Of course you could say, well this is just a penalty a game or less difference in most cases, but when the deviation is as large as it is for over 100+ games in a measure that requires subjective judgement, then you need to consider what other areas you are seeing the same thing occur where stats aren't available.

I also know that the first reaction will be that the Broncos are not penalized, but actually what happens is penalty rates drop off a long way in Broncos games. My first reaction would be to say this is because they are on FTA and Refs are aware of the need to support the spectacle (this bias is identified in other codes already). The other reason could be they draw a ref which consistently calls less ruck and offside penalties (I will look at that stat eventually). Either is still an advantage in my opinion and an example of how bias can creep in without advantaging one team clearly.

By the way, from what I can see Home ground advantage is worth about +20% as far as the rate at which a team gets penalties, and that is consistent no matter what other factors come into it (winning team, ladder position etc).

To me these are the sort of statistics that the NRL should be making transparent and explaining what they do in response.
Fantastic research. I genuinely think you should email it to the NRL and ask for a response from Annesly.

At the same time, send it to Daily telegraph and SMH and the Raiders. See if it gets run with.

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Matt » August 26, 2019, 1:41 pm

edwahu wrote:
August 26, 2019, 10:15 am
I got sick of wondering about whether some of my assumptions are correct so I went and found the detailed stats for every penalty since 2014. These are the number of ruck and offside penalties conceeded for regular season games over that period (2019 I only have until round 10 at the moment, so I excluded it). Possession differences are very small (2 or 3% max) over that period, so I have not adjusted to account for it.

Image

To me, this reflects how I feel about the way we are reffed. We are not the cleanest team, but at the same time I don't think we are the worst and no way are we so far ahead of certain other teams. Of course you could say, well this is just a penalty a game or less difference in most cases, but when the deviation is as large as it is for over 100+ games in a measure that requires subjective judgement, then you need to consider what other areas you are seeing the same thing occur where stats aren't available.

I also know that the first reaction will be that the Broncos are not penalized, but actually what happens is penalty rates drop off a long way in Broncos games. My first reaction would be to say this is because they are on FTA and Refs are aware of the need to support the spectacle (this bias is identified in other codes already). The other reason could be they draw a ref which consistently calls less ruck and offside penalties (I will look at that stat eventually). Either is still an advantage in my opinion and an example of how bias can creep in without advantaging one team clearly.

By the way, from what I can see Home ground advantage is worth about +20% as far as the rate at which a team gets penalties, and that is consistent no matter what other factors come into it (winning team, ladder position etc).

To me these are the sort of statistics that the NRL should be making transparent and explaining what they do in response.
Thats pretty damning evidence

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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Matt » August 26, 2019, 1:45 pm

Wiki Special wrote:
August 26, 2019, 11:04 am
Manly play extremely ugly football and did use niggling tactics yesterday to unsettle us. But I think the below mistakes by the refs were what hurt us;

1. Wighton 'No Try'. I truly believe this was a try in the same vein as Croker's first try last week.

2. Manly being offside before the intercept leading to the 8 point try.

3. Sutton being penalised for an incorrect play the ball. The ref indicated no attempt to use the foot but he clearly did attempt to use the foot.

4. The penalty for incorrect markers when Fonua-Blake walked 3 metres off the mark. Our markers were out of position but because of the opposition indiscretion.

5. The penalty on Whitehead (I think) for stripping just before the Jake T. try. The Manly player just dropped it when we tried to wrap up the offload. Teams will try this tactic going forward.

6. The Manly trainer claiming Boyle needed to be escorted from the field when he clearly wasn't injured just to stop our momentum. Just like the Roosters 2 weeks ago, I see other teams doing this going forward as a tactic.

Basically, I think the refs significantly contributed to the 'niggle' from Manly. If the game was officiated properly we win handsomely.
Mostly I agree, though Whiteheads left shoulder definitely dislodged that ball making the tackle; which ISNT a penalty, but not what was said.

There was one early in the game where they dropped the ball, and complained about a strip and got the ball. I can see team trying this, but its a double edged sword.

Wiki Special
Clinton Schifcofske
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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by Wiki Special » August 26, 2019, 1:49 pm

Matt wrote:
August 26, 2019, 1:45 pm
Wiki Special wrote:
August 26, 2019, 11:04 am
Manly play extremely ugly football and did use niggling tactics yesterday to unsettle us. But I think the below mistakes by the refs were what hurt us;

1. Wighton 'No Try'. I truly believe this was a try in the same vein as Croker's first try last week.

2. Manly being offside before the intercept leading to the 8 point try.

3. Sutton being penalised for an incorrect play the ball. The ref indicated no attempt to use the foot but he clearly did attempt to use the foot.

4. The penalty for incorrect markers when Fonua-Blake walked 3 metres off the mark. Our markers were out of position but because of the opposition indiscretion.

5. The penalty on Whitehead (I think) for stripping just before the Jake T. try. The Manly player just dropped it when we tried to wrap up the offload. Teams will try this tactic going forward.

6. The Manly trainer claiming Boyle needed to be escorted from the field when he clearly wasn't injured just to stop our momentum. Just like the Roosters 2 weeks ago, I see other teams doing this going forward as a tactic.

Basically, I think the refs significantly contributed to the 'niggle' from Manly. If the game was officiated properly we win handsomely.
Mostly I agree, though Whiteheads left shoulder definitely dislodged that ball making the tackle; which ISNT a penalty, but not what was said.

There was one early in the game where they dropped the ball, and complained about a strip and got the ball. I can see team trying this, but its a double edged sword.
Yeah, you are probably right on that count. And I must say, the officiating was poor in instances to Manly too. Just not to the same extent. I get the impression Klein and Perenara when reffing us pre-empt that we give away ruck penalties and have us pencilled in for 5 at minimum before kickoff.

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edwahu
Laurie Daley
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Re: Our inability to handle the niggle

Post by edwahu » August 26, 2019, 1:58 pm

BadnMean wrote:
August 26, 2019, 1:01 pm


Fantastic research. I genuinely think you should email it to the NRL and ask for a response from Annesly.

At the same time, send it to Daily telegraph and SMH and the Raiders. See if it gets run with.
I sent some stuff in the past and you just get a pretty stock standard response and I would say the only outcome would be the stats being even more locked down than now. Plus tbh I feel like I would be doing someone else's job for them.

I might send it to the club, they would have analysts who can validate the data and friendly journos that can pick it up and run with it if the club thinks its useful.

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