One on one steals

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

Moderator: GH Moderators

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 126175
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 13, 2019, 10:39 pm

Sid wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:38 pm
The harder part of the game for referees to rule is when there are several players in a tackle and the ball pops out.. was it stripped/forced out or was it lost/a loose carry by the attacker?

One thing I like about this new rule in place is there’s more onus on the attacker not to have a loose carry, because if defenders can spot this they can drop tacklers off and take the ball legally removing doubt from the referee that the ball is now theirs legally.. Rather than continuing on with the group tackle and have the ball pop out because the attacking player wasn’t holding the ball securely and getting a penalty for it almost half the time since it’s more of a lottery to rule on.
Good point.
Image

User avatar
Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
Posts: 22628
Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance
Location: Greener pastures

Re: One on one steals

Post by Northern Raider » August 13, 2019, 10:44 pm

greeneyed wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:37 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:30 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:26 pm
Honestly, I loathe Union scrums.

They’re an absolute mess. They pack the thing a dozen times to eventually just blow a penalty...

The former style (which died about 10-15 years ago) of rugby league scrum where it was backs vs backs was enjoyable to watch. But that’s no longer the case. It’s all about defensive formations now.

I think we should get rid of scrums altogether.
True, scrums have become somewhat obsolete in rugby league with the gradual watering down of the contest. Doesn't really matter of they stay or go.
Can't agree scrums should go. They drag half the players into a point on the field, and open up the rest of the field. That sort of variety is important, it adds an attacking opportunity.
Theoretically yes but I'm surprised coaches don't try to take advantage more. These days we rarely see more than a first receiver hit up from a scrum.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.

gergreg
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6944
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 13, 2019, 10:45 pm

PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
August 13, 2019, 9:44 pm
greeneyed wrote:It isn't my problem if you're not astute enough to work out what Ricky was ultimately driving at.
Yeah, it's obviously two experienced coaches having a dig at the opposition's tactical strengths leading into the finals. Happens every single year about this time.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Do you have an opinion on this rule?
I think we place too much pressure on officials. And i dont think that is what we should be doing
Is this a rule that does that?
Yes

GH reaction:
Stuart loves the rule!

:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao
C'mon, you're better than this. Ricky's playing a straight bat and then trying to deflect onto another area (stoppages) and not criticising the referees - in fact being sympathetic to the tough job they have - exactly as you... me... and other posters on this site have typed about - because of all the grey areas in the game.

Everybody who follows the game knows that we are currently the best at it. You know it, I know it, even blokes named Billy who know six shades of **** all about rugby league know it. So you can bet your **** that Trent Robinson and Ricky Stuart know it. Both coaches were very deliberate in how they discussed it. Trent highlighted it leading into the finals so it might be scrutinised or adjudicated slightly differently and Ricky is clever enough to not gloat about his players being the best at it (currently) so as not to draw attention to it.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Shoving it in your face since 2017

gergreg
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6944
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 13, 2019, 10:50 pm

greeneyed wrote:So you know... back when, when you could strip the ball in any circumstance... when you could strike for the ball in the play the ball... when scrums were a contest... how did the poor old referees ever cope?! They only had one referee and they did fine. All of these changes have been detrimental to the code, they've only been made because coaches didn't like contests for the ball, because it stopped them from running their set plays and getting their kicks away in robotic fashion. The coaches have had far too much say in how the game's rules should evolve. They've had far too much say in how the game's rules should be officiated.
Sorry mate I can't agree on this one. Referees weren't coping with contested scrums and play the balls. They were an absolute cluster..... scrums were a mess and 2 out of 3 scrums ended in a penalty because of all the shenanigans and play the balls weren't much better with markers smothering the bloke trying to play the ball. I think I mentioned over on LU - can you imagine a bloke like Josh McGuire being given permission to strike in the ruck or scrum?

Please substitute McGuire for Gallen if you need to Image

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Shoving it in your face since 2017

yeh raiders
Laurie Daley
Posts: 15127
Joined: June 21, 2008, 3:04 pm
Favourite Player: Jack Wighton
Location: Sydney

Re: One on one steals

Post by yeh raiders » August 13, 2019, 10:56 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:32 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:29 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:24 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:22 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:20 pm

...or maybe players and coaches will be more aware of it and get better at securing the ball.
Are you happy to sacrifice offloads/quick POTB?

I don’t think you can have both.
Yes you can. Just because a player is trying to steal the ball doesn't mean he should be allowed to slow the play down. If he he's not allowing the tackled player to play it the blow a penalty.
Of course he shouldn’t, but when two players are contesting for a ball it inevitably leads to a delay before the tackle is complete.
Again, of it's used to slow down the play then give a penalty. No need to change one rule when all you need to do is enforce the other.
Fact is the more contest for the ball in the ruck, the slower the tackle is. That’s just what happens. The refs are not policing stripping contests vs regular tackles. There’s no set time limit in the ruck, it’s open to the refs interpretation and the last thing we want them doing is making more split-second decisions on the fly.

Even if they can distinguish between an attempt to slow the play down or not, when you’re contesting the ball your arms are likely to get tangled around the ball. How often do we already see arms lodged around the ball for extended periods and the refs just blaming the attacking player for apparently “milking” when he’s fearing he might lose it if he tries to break free and play it.

I don’t have faith in the refs handling an influx of it well. Neither do the coaches. The game will be what suffers in the end.

User avatar
Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
Posts: 22628
Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance
Location: Greener pastures

Re: One on one steals

Post by Northern Raider » August 13, 2019, 11:00 pm

....so remove all contest for the ball.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.

manbearpig
Brett Mullins
Posts: 1219
Joined: May 5, 2010, 8:22 pm
Favourite Player: Wighton

Re: One on one steals

Post by manbearpig » August 13, 2019, 11:33 pm

IMAGINE... Imagine, after still reeling from a VERY close loss, then, having to listen to the winning coach **** about the stripping rule, even listen to him question what it even is?
Waits till round 21, when his team had the **** stolen from them...
I love the rule and hope it stays and isn't rejigged in any way.
"Because smarter men than me, will make those decisions".

Sore losers are one thing
Sore winners are **** scumbags.

Go **** right off Robinson.
Im just, bicking back being bool

User avatar
PigRickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25148
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by PigRickman » August 14, 2019, 7:05 am

gergreg wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:45 pm
PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
August 13, 2019, 9:44 pm
greeneyed wrote:It isn't my problem if you're not astute enough to work out what Ricky was ultimately driving at.
Yeah, it's obviously two experienced coaches having a dig at the opposition's tactical strengths leading into the finals. Happens every single year about this time.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Do you have an opinion on this rule?
I think we place too much pressure on officials. And i dont think that is what we should be doing
Is this a rule that does that?
Yes

GH reaction:
Stuart loves the rule!

:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao
C'mon, you're better than this. Ricky's playing a straight bat and then trying to deflect onto another area (stoppages) and not criticising the referees - in fact being sympathetic to the tough job they have - exactly as you... me... and other posters on this site have typed about - because of all the grey areas in the game.

Everybody who follows the game knows that we are currently the best at it. You know it, I know it, even blokes named Billy who know six shades of **** all about rugby league know it. So you can bet your **** that Trent Robinson and Ricky Stuart know it. Both coaches were very deliberate in how they discussed it. Trent highlighted it leading into the finals so it might be scrutinised or adjudicated slightly differently and Ricky is clever enough to not gloat about his players being the best at it (currently) so as not to draw attention to it.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

You guys are actually insane
Go and read the transcript again, Greg

He is asked directly about this specific rule. And he answers directly that it is a rule that makes life harder for the officials and he doesn’t believe we should be doing that.

The fact he tries (unsuccessfully mind you) to shift the conversation at the end of his response to some of the roosters tactics doesn’t invalid the direct response he gave about this rule

What is actually wrong with you people? Haha

Reporter: do you have an opinion on the stripping rule?
Stuart: we’ve got rules that place too much pressure on the officials
Reporter: is the stripping rule one of them
Stuart: yes. We’re making it too hard for the referees. We need to make it easier on them, not harder.

The GH: Stuart wasn’t talking about the stripping rule

:roflmao
Good grief
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

User avatar
The Rickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 43049
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: One on one steals

Post by The Rickman » August 14, 2019, 8:19 am

greeneyed wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:30 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:26 pm
Honestly, I loathe Union scrums.

They’re an absolute mess. They pack the thing a dozen times to eventually just blow a penalty...

The former style (which died about 10-15 years ago) of rugby league scrum where it was backs vs backs was enjoyable to watch. But that’s no longer the case. It’s all about defensive formations now.

I think we should get rid of scrums altogether.
True, scrums have become somewhat obsolete in rugby league with the gradual watering down of the contest. Doesn't really matter of they stay or go.
Can't agree scrums should go. They drag half the players into a point on the field, and open up the rest of the field. That sort of variety is important, it adds an attacking opportunity.
This! So much this.

It always bugs me when people say to me “why don’t they just take scrums away altogether?”

Scrums serve a purpose. I actually still believe a 40/20 should result in a scrum, why is it even a tap?
Image
2012 Golden Boogs Newbie of the Year
2013 'Nella Awards Best Punter
2013 Boogs Thread of the Year ~ The Betting Thread
2014 Boogs Matthew Elliott Award Winner
2014 Boogs some award with Hanbush

gergreg
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6944
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by gergreg » August 14, 2019, 8:23 am

PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:45 pm
PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
August 13, 2019, 9:44 pm
greeneyed wrote:It isn't my problem if you're not astute enough to work out what Ricky was ultimately driving at.
Yeah, it's obviously two experienced coaches having a dig at the opposition's tactical strengths leading into the finals. Happens every single year about this time.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Do you have an opinion on this rule?
I think we place too much pressure on officials. And i dont think that is what we should be doing
Is this a rule that does that?
Yes

GH reaction:
Stuart loves the rule!

:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao
C'mon, you're better than this. Ricky's playing a straight bat and then trying to deflect onto another area (stoppages) and not criticising the referees - in fact being sympathetic to the tough job they have - exactly as you... me... and other posters on this site have typed about - because of all the grey areas in the game.

Everybody who follows the game knows that we are currently the best at it. You know it, I know it, even blokes named Billy who know six shades of **** all about rugby league know it. So you can bet your **** that Trent Robinson and Ricky Stuart know it. Both coaches were very deliberate in how they discussed it. Trent highlighted it leading into the finals so it might be scrutinised or adjudicated slightly differently and Ricky is clever enough to not gloat about his players being the best at it (currently) so as not to draw attention to it.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

You guys are actually insane
Go and read the transcript again, Greg

He is asked directly about this specific rule. And he answers directly that it is a rule that makes life harder for the officials and he doesn’t believe we should be doing that.

The fact he tries (unsuccessfully mind you) to shift the conversation at the end of his response to some of the roosters tactics doesn’t invalid the direct response he gave about this rule

What is actually wrong with you people? Haha

Reporter: do you have an opinion on the stripping rule?
Stuart: we’ve got rules that place too much pressure on the officials
Reporter: is the stripping rule one of them
Stuart: yes. We’re making it too hard for the referees. We need to make it easier on them, not harder.

The GH: Stuart wasn’t talking about the stripping rule

:roflmao
Good grief
I went and rewatched the presser before the post you're quoting. He is being coy. Like I said in the rest of that post, we are currently the best at it. Why would he want the rule changed?

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Shoving it in your face since 2017

Wiki Special
Clinton Schifcofske
Posts: 504
Joined: August 11, 2016, 8:16 am
Favourite Player: Josh Hodgson

Re: One on one steals

Post by Wiki Special » August 14, 2019, 8:54 am

I find the backlash against this rule to be ridiculous. I like it, and I notice on the recent NRL poll that I did the question relating to one on one strips had the majority of fans in favour of it. Robinson's comments are just another example of coaches trying to influence the key decision makers. Trent, was it a good look for the game when teams (led by the Roosters) were giving away multiple penalties on their line to stunt the other teams attack? No it was not. But you were happy to exploit the lack of sin binnings by the refs then. This just stinks of a coach who sees himself as an innovator of the game being outfoxed by a rival and taking his bat and ball and going home.

User avatar
PigRickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25148
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by PigRickman » August 14, 2019, 8:55 am

That's a question you'd be best posed to Ricky Stuart.

It is interesting that he doesn't like a rule that we are exploiting to huge success. But it is clear, as per his own words in an answering a direct question about the rule by saying this is a rule that makes life harder for officals and the code should be making it easier, not harder.

The club doesnt like the TPA rules, but if Terry Snow came knocking on their door and offered to arrange a TPA large enough to lure Kayln Ponga to the club, do you think they'd knock it back on princple? Of course not. Stuart doesnt like the rule, he's made that expressly clear in that presser. But like any coach, just because he doesnt like the rule, doesnt mean he's not going to exploit it to win football games.

This is how you and GE get yourselves into such a huff about things. You literally heard a presser where Stuart plainly says the rule makes life harder for officials and we shouldnt be doing that. And your takeaway is "very coy stuff here! he's batted that away beautifully!"

You only see and hear what you want see and hear.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 126175
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 14, 2019, 9:04 am

We can’t help it if you’re not astute enough to listen to what Ricky was communicating.
Image

User avatar
GreenMachine
Gary Coyne
Posts: 114
Joined: April 13, 2005, 2:22 pm
Favourite Player: Laurie Daley

Re: One on one steals

Post by GreenMachine » August 14, 2019, 9:31 am

manbearpig wrote:
August 13, 2019, 11:33 pm
IMAGINE... Imagine, after still reeling from a VERY close loss, then, having to listen to the winning coach **** about the stripping rule, even listen to him question what it even is?
Waits till round 21, when his team had the **** stolen from them...
I love the rule and hope it stays and isn't rejigged in any way.
"Because smarter men than me, will make those decisions".

Sore losers are one thing
Sore winners are **** scumbags.

Go **** right off Robinson.
100%.
The fine art of whinging is doing it after a win....and that's exactly what Robinson did.

User avatar
PigRickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25148
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by PigRickman » August 14, 2019, 9:38 am

greeneyed wrote:
August 14, 2019, 9:04 am
We can’t help it if you’re not astute enough to listen to what Ricky was communicating.
I listen to what he said, including his direct words about a direct question. I guess I'm not "astute" enough to ignore the things i dont want to hear and just make up my own story that suits my agenda. It's a special kind of "astute" that can do that.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

User avatar
Matt
Don Furner
Posts: 31922
Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
Favourite Player: Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Cotric
Location: Canberra

Re: One on one steals

Post by Matt » August 14, 2019, 9:53 am

Here is the presser:
https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/08 ... -round-21/

Now im paraphrasing a little, but, the question was at approx 4.12, and was:
J: Trent Robinson doesnt like that peel away stripping rule - the journo was mumbling more, but hard to hear - then says Robbo said we do it really well. Do you have an opinion?
RS: There are a number of rules in the game at the moment that are putting far too much pressure on the refs. (Hard to convey tone etc, but it was a measured response).
J: mumbled but, I think he said 'is this 1 of them?'
RS: Ummm, thats 1 of them because a lot of the time they have to guess. I think they got a lot of them right tonight. Ummm, whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules in the game they we are creating and putting too much pressure on the blokes in the middle. I feel sorry for them because theres a lot of the time they have to guess on rules. Ummmm, we need to make it easier for them, not harder. The game are talking about wanting to fasten up the game and have more football. I dont know what the stats of it all is, but ummm, but the amount of stoppages in play at the moment, I dont know why its come about, but the amonut of stoppages in 80mins of football today, at the moment is far greater than is has been over the last couple of years. (again, this was a measured response, and TBH, i think its a each way bet on slowing the ruck with strips AND Chooks staying down)

Another journo asks 'are we putting too much pressure on refs going into finals'
RS: (Big Smile) That's a story for another day. Give me a call another day, ill talk to you about it.
AJ: If I call will you pick up?
RS: Ummm, yeah, Ill pick up for you.

User avatar
Roger Kenworthy
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8096
Joined: January 7, 2005, 10:18 pm
Favourite Player: Ruben Wiki, J-Lo, Jordan Rapana

Re: One on one steals

Post by Roger Kenworthy » August 14, 2019, 9:59 am

I don't like the rule but I'm glad we are the team exploiting it. A player being gang tackled by 3 shouldn't have to worry about having the ball completely locked up. Also in the long term it will discourage promoting the football for 2nd phase IMO.

User avatar
Matt
Don Furner
Posts: 31922
Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
Favourite Player: Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Cotric
Location: Canberra

Re: One on one steals

Post by Matt » August 14, 2019, 10:00 am

IMO,
Ricky has been trying very hard this year to change his 'refs fault' / whinging persona. So he has adopted the 'its very hard for refs' approach. Not for 1 second do I think what is said, is 100% what he means. In the last 2 years, he has mostly been very measured and careful in what, and how, he responds to questions. There is definitely a double meaning at play to most of these responses. Body language and his tone are as important as what he says at these things.

As for whether he likes or doesn't like the strip rule, you would probably have to ask him away for footy to get a real response.

BUT... Ricky wants to win, so if using this rule gets him there he will use it.

User avatar
Matt
Don Furner
Posts: 31922
Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
Favourite Player: Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Cotric
Location: Canberra

Re: One on one steals

Post by Matt » August 14, 2019, 10:01 am

Roger Kenworthy wrote:
August 14, 2019, 9:59 am
I don't like the rule but I'm glad we are the team exploiting it. A player being gang tackled by 3 shouldn't have to worry about having the ball completely locked up. Also in the long term it will discourage promoting the football for 2nd phase IMO.
That's an interesting thought. Id say that theory has legs. Though, ours boys offloaded with 3 in the tackle a few times on the weekend, doesn't seem to be discouraging them.

User avatar
PigRickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25148
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by PigRickman » August 14, 2019, 10:10 am

Matt wrote:
August 14, 2019, 9:53 am
Here is the presser:
https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/08 ... -round-21/

Now im paraphrasing a little, but, the question was at approx 4.12, and was:
J: Trent Robinson doesnt like that peel away stripping rule - the journo was mumbling more, but hard to hear - then says Robbo said we do it really well. Do you have an opinion?
RS: There are a number of rules in the game at the moment that are putting far too much pressure on the refs. (Hard to convey tone etc, but it was a measured response).
J: mumbled but, I think he said 'is this 1 of them?'
RS: Ummm, thats 1 of them because a lot of the time they have to guess. I think they got a lot of them right tonight. Ummm, whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules in the game they we are creating and putting too much pressure on the blokes in the middle. I feel sorry for them because theres a lot of the time they have to guess on rules. Ummmm, we need to make it easier for them, not harder. The game are talking about wanting to fasten up the game and have more football. I dont know what the stats of it all is, but ummm, but the amount of stoppages in play at the moment, I dont know why its come about, but the amonut of stoppages in 80mins of football today, at the moment is far greater than is has been over the last couple of years. (again, this was a measured response, and TBH, i think its a each way bet on slowing the ruck with strips AND Chooks staying down)

Another journo asks 'are we putting too much pressure on refs going into finals'
RS: (Big Smile) That's a story for another day. Give me a call another day, ill talk to you about it.
AJ: If I call will you pick up?
RS: Ummm, yeah, Ill pick up for you.
You could have just gone back a page and used my transcript :lol:
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

User avatar
Matt
Don Furner
Posts: 31922
Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
Favourite Player: Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Cotric
Location: Canberra

Re: One on one steals

Post by Matt » August 14, 2019, 10:11 am

Here are a few thoughts:
1. Gould has changed his tune on this. How often have we heard him bang on about ball security? Its up to the attacking player to respect the ball, blah blah blah. I hate this stripping rule! (referring to multiple players in the tackle). Why is that a penalty? Its a loose carry, blah blah blah.
Now we have a revised rule, guess what?!?! He doesn't like that one either.

2. Almost all the contested ball is gone from the game. Scrums, play the ball, and stripping. As GE said earlier, it makes attack more robotic, as its set for set, just like a tennis match with the ball being hit back over the net repeatedly, its monotonous. I look at a game like NFL or even Union, and they still have contested ball. In the NFL you can strip the ball anytime. A dropped ball is up for grabs. In union the ruck and malls are contested, its very messy, and can be penalty driven, but ultimately its contested play. I like this more unpredictable, big play, element in the game.

3. The strip is a double edged sword. Like the 1 on 1 previously, there is still risk of penalties, still risk of knock on's resulting in 6 again, and risk of slowing the play the ball. However, the reward is you get the ball, AND, you swing momentum. I like this rule.

User avatar
PigRickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25148
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by PigRickman » August 14, 2019, 10:13 am

greeneyed wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:37 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:30 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:26 pm
Honestly, I loathe Union scrums.

They’re an absolute mess. They pack the thing a dozen times to eventually just blow a penalty...

The former style (which died about 10-15 years ago) of rugby league scrum where it was backs vs backs was enjoyable to watch. But that’s no longer the case. It’s all about defensive formations now.

I think we should get rid of scrums altogether.
True, scrums have become somewhat obsolete in rugby league with the gradual watering down of the contest. Doesn't really matter of they stay or go.
Can't agree scrums should go. They drag half the players into a point on the field, and open up the rest of the field. That sort of variety is important, it adds an attacking opportunity.
This is the correct take on scrums btw. The issue with scrums is coaches dont use them enough. If i were a coach, any scrum feed i had outside of my own 30, we'd be running a set play. There is just few times you get that much space to work with covered by so few players. By all means if you're in the shadow of your own goal posts, take a hit up and grind to get back up the other end... once you're close to half way though, that's a time to give the opposition a shot. You're one/broken tackle away from a try opportunity.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

User avatar
Matt
Don Furner
Posts: 31922
Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
Favourite Player: Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Cotric
Location: Canberra

Re: One on one steals

Post by Matt » August 14, 2019, 10:15 am

PigRickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 10:10 am
Matt wrote:
August 14, 2019, 9:53 am
Here is the presser:
https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/08 ... -round-21/

Now im paraphrasing a little, but, the question was at approx 4.12, and was:
J: Trent Robinson doesnt like that peel away stripping rule - the journo was mumbling more, but hard to hear - then says Robbo said we do it really well. Do you have an opinion?
RS: There are a number of rules in the game at the moment that are putting far too much pressure on the refs. (Hard to convey tone etc, but it was a measured response).
J: mumbled but, I think he said 'is this 1 of them?'
RS: Ummm, thats 1 of them because a lot of the time they have to guess. I think they got a lot of them right tonight. Ummm, whether the rule stays or goes there are so many more rules in the game they we are creating and putting too much pressure on the blokes in the middle. I feel sorry for them because theres a lot of the time they have to guess on rules. Ummmm, we need to make it easier for them, not harder. The game are talking about wanting to fasten up the game and have more football. I dont know what the stats of it all is, but ummm, but the amount of stoppages in play at the moment, I dont know why its come about, but the amonut of stoppages in 80mins of football today, at the moment is far greater than is has been over the last couple of years. (again, this was a measured response, and TBH, i think its a each way bet on slowing the ruck with strips AND Chooks staying down)

Another journo asks 'are we putting too much pressure on refs going into finals'
RS: (Big Smile) That's a story for another day. Give me a call another day, ill talk to you about it.
AJ: If I call will you pick up?
RS: Ummm, yeah, Ill pick up for you.
You could have just gone back a page and used my transcript :lol:
Mine is basically word for word. Harder to argue against than your succinct version.

User avatar
Matt
Don Furner
Posts: 31922
Joined: May 18, 2010, 4:17 pm
Favourite Player: Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Cotric
Location: Canberra

Re: One on one steals

Post by Matt » August 14, 2019, 10:17 am

PigRickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 10:13 am
greeneyed wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:37 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:30 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:26 pm
Honestly, I loathe Union scrums.

They’re an absolute mess. They pack the thing a dozen times to eventually just blow a penalty...

The former style (which died about 10-15 years ago) of rugby league scrum where it was backs vs backs was enjoyable to watch. But that’s no longer the case. It’s all about defensive formations now.

I think we should get rid of scrums altogether.
True, scrums have become somewhat obsolete in rugby league with the gradual watering down of the contest. Doesn't really matter of they stay or go.
Can't agree scrums should go. They drag half the players into a point on the field, and open up the rest of the field. That sort of variety is important, it adds an attacking opportunity.
This is the correct take on scrums btw. The issue with scrums is coaches dont use them enough. If i were a coach, any scrum feed i had outside of my own 30, we'd be running a set play. There is just few times you get that much space to work with covered by so few players. By all means if you're in the shadow of your own goal posts, take a hit up and grind to get back up the other end... once you're close to half way though, that's a time to give the opposition a shot. You're one/broken tackle away from a try opportunity.
100% Attack dammit!

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 126175
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 14, 2019, 10:34 am

@Matt Ricky Stuart has barely missed a step in his post match press conferences this year, and in his public comments. He's communicating messages constantly and it is planned carefully IMO. It wouldn't surprise me if he's taken/been taking advice from someone on it... be it an old mate like Craig Bellamy, the leadership consultant they brought in, the sports psychologist... who knows, the coach whisperer. But he's so much more deliberate, the messages he gives the team, the NRL, the referees, this year compared to last. He deserves congratulations on how he's changed tack, to something that is so much more effective.
Image

julian87
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11400
Joined: October 20, 2005, 3:35 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by julian87 » August 14, 2019, 11:09 am

I'm pretty happy with how we've exploited the rule change. But as a pure league fan what I see is the NRL implementing a rule change with no thought about the reaction to it. It definitely wasn't brought in to have players wrapped up in a 3 man tackle to be stripped of the ball the moment the 2 other tacklers drop off.

But that's typical NRL. It's a simple game that needs very few amendments but we see jinking of tiny rules time and time again and very rarely does it improve the game. The 40/20 and cornerpost amendments are the only really positive changes they've made at all IMO.

I'm not getting into the discussion about Robinson and Stuart etc because I really don't think it matters. I like that both of these coaches talk openly about the game both positively and negatively simply because they're both good role models and keep talking points rolling.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 126175
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 14, 2019, 12:05 pm

julian87 wrote:
August 14, 2019, 11:09 am
It definitely wasn't brought in to have players wrapped up in a 3 man tackle to be stripped of the ball the moment the 2 other tacklers drop off.
But that's exactly what the rule change was, wasn't it? If there were two men in the tackle, you couldn't strip one on one subsequently. They changed it so you could...
Image

julian87
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11400
Joined: October 20, 2005, 3:35 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by julian87 » August 14, 2019, 12:16 pm

greeneyed wrote:
August 14, 2019, 12:05 pm
julian87 wrote:
August 14, 2019, 11:09 am
It definitely wasn't brought in to have players wrapped up in a 3 man tackle to be stripped of the ball the moment the 2 other tacklers drop off.
But that's exactly what the rule change was, wasn't it? If there were two men in the tackle, you couldn't strip one on one subsequently. They changed it so you could...
My take is the rule was intrduced so tackles that become one on one were ok. And that was based on it happening unintentionally like it did in the past when players were penalized even though it may have been one on one for ages but they’d busted the other tackler. It definitely wasn’t brought in for it to be exploited like we have. But I’m glad we’ve done it.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 126175
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: One on one steals

Post by greeneyed » August 14, 2019, 12:56 pm

Canberra Raiders stealing their way to NRL title

Canberra say the only NRL teams complaining about one-on-one strips are the ones who can't take advantage of the new rules.

"I've seen plenty of people complaining about it but it's a rule and you take advantage of the rules as much as you can," John Bateman said. "The teams that aren't so good at it are the ones complaining about it."

Read more: https://au.sports.yahoo.com/canberra-st ... --spt.html

Why are so many English Super League stars are leaving for Australia: https://www.thesportsman.com/features/w ... -australia
Image

Billy Walker
John Ferguson
Posts: 2301
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 14, 2019, 1:18 pm

Matt wrote:
August 14, 2019, 10:00 am
IMO,
Ricky has been trying very hard this year to change his 'refs fault' / whinging persona. So he has adopted the 'its very hard for refs' approach. Not for 1 second do I think what is said, is 100% what he means. In the last 2 years, he has mostly been very measured and careful in what, and how, he responds to questions. There is definitely a double meaning at play to most of these responses. Body language and his tone are as important as what he says at these things.

As for whether he likes or doesn't like the strip rule, you would probably have to ask him away for footy to get a real response.

BUT... Ricky wants to win, so if using this rule gets him there he will use it.
100% agree with this and also support GE’s comments about Ricky’s performance in press conferences this year. I like the shift from ref blaming.

User avatar
The Rickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 43049
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: One on one steals

Post by The Rickman » August 14, 2019, 1:31 pm

I think with all the rhetoric around this rule that we can expect to see it changed in the near future

Hopefully not before the grand final, but you never **** know with the NRL
Image
2012 Golden Boogs Newbie of the Year
2013 'Nella Awards Best Punter
2013 Boogs Thread of the Year ~ The Betting Thread
2014 Boogs Matthew Elliott Award Winner
2014 Boogs some award with Hanbush

User avatar
PigRickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25148
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: One on one steals

Post by PigRickman » August 14, 2019, 1:38 pm

The Rickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 1:31 pm
I think with all the rhetoric around this rule that we can expect to see it changed in the near future

Hopefully not before the grand final, but you never **** know with the NRL

I think we do know. The Raiders very good at this, and as we know, the NRL simply won't allow us to be good at anything. So a rule change should be finalised before the COB.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Matt wrote:
June 25, 2019, 9:29 pm
Reed Mahoney 9. Josh Hodgson ©
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

User avatar
Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
Posts: 22628
Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance
Location: Greener pastures

Re: One on one steals

Post by Northern Raider » August 14, 2019, 1:39 pm

The Rickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 1:31 pm
I think with all the rhetoric around this rule that we can expect to see it changed in the near future

Hopefully not before the grand final, but you never **** know with the NRL
Haha, they so would do that. Change the rule just before finals time because Trent Robinson missed the boat on coaching his team to take advantage of it.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.

Billy Walker
John Ferguson
Posts: 2301
Joined: April 29, 2017, 7:22 pm
Favourite Player: Ashley Gilbert

Re: One on one steals

Post by Billy Walker » August 14, 2019, 1:45 pm

PigRickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 1:38 pm
The Rickman wrote:
August 14, 2019, 1:31 pm
I think with all the rhetoric around this rule that we can expect to see it changed in the near future

Hopefully not before the grand final, but you never **** know with the NRL

I think we do know. The Raiders very good at this, and as we know, the NRL simply won't allow us to be good at anything. So a rule change should be finalised before the COB.
3(a) s. 6 - A defending player may steal possession from an opposing player provided:
(i) there is not more than one defensive player at the time,
(ii) the defensive player has neither a pommy accent or green jumper, and
(iii) the attacking player isn’t a rooster or bronco.

Seems fair....

User avatar
Sid
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6949
Joined: May 15, 2015, 8:47 pm
Favourite Player: Shannon Boyd
Location: Darwin, N.T.

Re: One on one steals

Post by Sid » August 14, 2019, 2:41 pm

PigRickman wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:37 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:30 pm
yeh raiders wrote:
August 13, 2019, 10:26 pm
Honestly, I loathe Union scrums.

They’re an absolute mess. They pack the thing a dozen times to eventually just blow a penalty...

The former style (which died about 10-15 years ago) of rugby league scrum where it was backs vs backs was enjoyable to watch. But that’s no longer the case. It’s all about defensive formations now.

I think we should get rid of scrums altogether.
True, scrums have become somewhat obsolete in rugby league with the gradual watering down of the contest. Doesn't really matter of they stay or go.
Can't agree scrums should go. They drag half the players into a point on the field, and open up the rest of the field. That sort of variety is important, it adds an attacking opportunity.
This is the correct take on scrums btw. The issue with scrums is coaches dont use them enough. If i were a coach, any scrum feed i had outside of my own 30, we'd be running a set play. There is just few times you get that much space to work with covered by so few players. By all means if you're in the shadow of your own goal posts, take a hit up and grind to get back up the other end... once you're close to half way though, that's a time to give the opposition a shot. You're one/broken tackle away from a try opportunity.
Getting sidetracked here, but not only am I also surprised that there aren’t more set plays off scrums

what really annoys me is I don’t know why more defending teams don’t purposely give away a differential penalty from the scrum

2 benefits of this are
- that you get to set your defensive line, making it easier to defend against than from a scrum and halt the team’s momentum from tackle 1.

- it’s giving away a penalty for free (no extra tackles, teams can’t go for goal etc. which I think is a benefit in a system where I believe even up penalties are unfortunately still a thing to an extent

Would have won Boogs - 2016, 2017, 2018

1 part green, 1 part machine

Post Reply