2019 Rd 19 V Panthers: Game Day

[-TW-]

I thought the officials had a...

Klein game...

a Klein Game....

Because it's like a "clean game" but Ash Kl... ill get my coat

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[gangrenous]

Agree BnM

Sam Williams and Bailey Simonsson have re-enacted Cleary bailing up Klein in the tunnel at half time

Where?

[Sid]

Agree BnM

Sam Williams and Bailey Simonsson have re-enacted Cleary bailing up Klein in the tunnel at half time

Where?

On social media from Canberra Raiders, Locker Room, NRL and Fox League

https://twitter.com/FOXNRL/status/1156415466409091072

[Dr Zaius]

The NRL are a poorly run organisation.

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[Northern Raider]

Kenty blowing up about it on NRL 360. Can't argue with his point either. Basically calling shenanigans on the integrity unit.

[greeneyed]

Kenty's head nearly exploded over it. Everything he said was right.

[Northern Raider]

Yep, he's spot on. Total farce and an embarrassment for those who conducted the inquiry. Letting him off because of "inconsistencies" in the statements basically opened the door for people lie to them.

[Sid]

Watched that too. NRL cleared Ivan because he was speaking to Tamou and not the referee, but re-watching the press conference Ivan gives himself up about speaking to the referee.

NRL just feeding the fans Bull again. This isn’t just about Ivan Cleary or the Panthers being punished, the way this has been handled is a detriment to the game overall. I don’t have faith in the NRL handling clear cut cases like this and others we see get bungled up, let alone any tricky ones.

[greeneyed]

Yep, he's spot on. Total farce and an embarrassment for those who conducted the inquiry. Letting him off because of "inconsistencies" in the statements basically opened the door for people lie to them.

They have him on video saying one thing... and then he tells them something else... and they accept the latter! It is complete and utter joke. Inconsistency and gutlessness is rife in the NRL. It is what happens when the clubs have too much say in the running of the game. That's what we're seeing under Beattie. They're too scared to do anything without the clubs' say so.

[greeneyed]

‘Someone should be sacked’: Paul Kent’s all-time NRL spray after Penrith Panthers coach Ivan Cleary was let-off after half time incident in clash with Canberra Raiders

A fired up Paul Kent has called for “someone to be sacked” in an all-time spray at rugby league’s governing body.

“The inconsistencies, the favouritism, the agendas, the public massaging, to try to illustrate they are doing a good job in there just highlights how out of their depth they are.”

Read more and video: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... a9e45ccf54

NRL clear Penrith Panthers coach Ivan Cleary over approach to referee Ashley Klein: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 7246a32898

[pickles]

No my point to Pickles is that it would be a proportionality thing. You'd be hard pressed to not find a dubious call against any team in any game and fans seem to latch onto it so everyone thinks they get screwed as it is a talking point. I think say a Souths fan might be unpleasantly surprised if they followed the Warriors over a season. That's pure speculation but my hot take that you can and will dismiss.

I haven't seen the sentiment change with the Raiders fans this season, from what i've seen it's the same. But as I mention above i've taken some fair breaks from the internet squabbles this year so perhaps i'm off the mark.

I did take a long break woodgers, after the segments were banned from the game day thread and I no longer had a reason to trawl the internet for hilarious pictures of people also called nickman there didn’t seem to be a lot of point and the negativity when we aren’t going so well I find pointless to engage in.

When it comes to the balance of decisions I have watched footy with supporters of most teams and there is a universal belief that their team is targeted. This is just simple confirmation bias where you pay a lot more attention to the things that go against you than the things that don’t.

In every fan group there are the more pragmatic and the more militant and personally I have shifted from thinking that the raiders get a raw deal to thinking that it’s about even. My dad is almost if the opinion that there is an NRL conspiracy against the raiders which, apart from being incorrect, has almost destroyed any enjoyment he gets from watching rugby league. I’ve actually told him that if it makes him so upset he should give it away!

My focus now is always on what we as a team can control. It seems this year that is our focus across the whole club from top to bottom and the results are clear.

As a fan I find much more enjoyment in being realistic about where we are as a club and enjoying our success when it comes as well as being realistic about our losses. We’ve been outplayed a few times this year and we’ve also thrown away games by not turning up with the right attitude. The vast majority of the time in the NRL the team that plays better on the day wins and that’s how it should be!

[simo]

No my point to Pickles is that it would be a proportionality thing. You'd be hard pressed to not find a dubious call against any team in any game and fans seem to latch onto it so everyone thinks they get screwed as it is a talking point. I think say a Souths fan might be unpleasantly surprised if they followed the Warriors over a season. That's pure speculation but my hot take that you can and will dismiss.

I haven't seen the sentiment change with the Raiders fans this season, from what i've seen it's the same. But as I mention above i've taken some fair breaks from the internet squabbles this year so perhaps i'm off the mark.

I did take a long break woodgers, after the segments were banned from the game day thread and I no longer had a reason to trawl the internet for hilarious pictures of people also called nickman there didn’t seem to be a lot of point and the negativity when we aren’t going so well I find pointless to engage in.

When it comes to the balance of decisions I have watched footy with supporters of most teams and there is a universal belief that their team is targeted. This is just simple confirmation bias where you pay a lot more attention to the things that go against you than the things that don’t.

In every fan group there are the more pragmatic and the more militant and personally I have shifted from thinking that the raiders get a raw deal to thinking that it’s about even. My dad is almost if the opinion that there is an NRL conspiracy against the raiders which, apart from being incorrect, has almost destroyed any enjoyment he gets from watching rugby league. I’ve actually told him that if it makes him so upset he should give it away!

My focus now is always on what we as a team can control. It seems this year that is our focus across the whole club from top to bottom and the results are clear.

As a fan I find much more enjoyment in being realistic about where we are as a club and enjoying our success when it comes as well as being realistic about our losses. We’ve been outplayed a few times this year and we’ve also thrown away games by not turning up with the right attitude. The vast majority of the time in the NRL the team that plays better on the day wins and that’s how it should be!

Great to see youve taken that stance pick and hopefully your green eyed dad can come around to just enjoying the games

[Botman]

Haha it's true with Pick says though... like if you actually believe the NRL officials and MRC and judicary and broadcast partners etc are all in some long game to **** the raiders at every turn, why would you watch this ****?

If i thought a sport was that corrupt, i just wouldnt watch it at all... which i guess is exactly how i treat Boxing.

[Woodgers]

Despite what people might think, I'm not too far away from Pickles in terms of what I prefer to focus on so that I can extract as much enjoyment as possible from watching the footy.

I cannot remember the last time I blamed the officials for a Raiders loss, at a guess i'm thinking probably Cronulla away last year when everyone did but i'm not sure. I don't make a habit of it. I generally focus on our team and what we could've done better, and accept that some days the opposition is going to outplay us so I try not to be negative on the team when we lose either.

All I've made a point of doing is discussing that the playing field isn't even because of the way the game is structured and the influences it has both around those structures and the actual games themselves. That's not whinging and complaining in my opinion, it's just highlighting another visible incompetence in an organisation (which the only thing every fan universally agrees on) reeks of incompetence! This probably occurs in a lot of professional sporting competitions but is managed better. I've never stated or implied that it is impossible for the Raiders, Warriors or yes even the Titans to be top of the NRL pile, it just comes with more hurdles than other clubs like Broncos, Roosters, Souths and a few others (IMO). That's where i'm at and in many ways makes it more satisfying when we are doing well.

[-PJ-]

Go PK.

Calling a spade a spade.

Cotric, Luke and JTurbo drop blokes on their heads..3 different punishments.
The one on one strip debacle.
And coaches commenting on refs.

What's doing down at HQ ?

[Woodgers]

Haha it's true with Pick says though... like if you actually believe the NRL officials and MRC and judicary and broadcast partners etc are all in some long game to **** the raiders at every turn, why would you watch this ****?

If i thought a sport was that corrupt, i just wouldnt watch it at all... which i guess is exactly how i treat Boxing.

Mate i've said to you before, you get extremes and you're pointing towards the crazy conspiracy theorist and lumping them in with people who are just commenting on the overall game standings. And I don't even think it is complaining, it is just talking about stuff such as unconscious bias which some people have decided is a nonsense so ridicule people in every other thread like they're some sort of tin foil hat.

[gangrenous]

Don’t bother talking sense to pigman on the issue Woodgers. He finds it much easier to argue against his straw man caricature of the argument.

I share your view on things.

Plus I think that Cronulla decision was perhaps the worst I’ve seen in the NRL. Required several bad mistakes from at least 4 separate people.

[Woodgers]

If this forum has taught me nothing else, and it hasn't, it is that there is no such thing as an argument with Pigman...and also that his offsider Nickman should stick to other sports like hot oil wrestling, foxy boxing and such and such.

[pickles]

Despite what people might think, I'm not too far away from Pickles in terms of what I prefer to focus on so that I can extract as much enjoyment as possible from watching the footy.

I cannot remember the last time I blamed the officials for a Raiders loss, at a guess i'm thinking probably Cronulla away last year when everyone did but i'm not sure. I don't make a habit of it. I generally focus on our team and what we could've done better, and accept that some days the opposition is going to outplay us so I try not to be negative on the team when we lose either.

All I've made a point of doing is discussing that the playing field isn't even because of the way the game is structured and the influences it has both around those structures and the actual games themselves. That's not whinging and complaining in my opinion, it's just highlighting another visible incompetence in an organisation (which the only thing every fan universally agrees on) reeks of incompetence! This probably occurs in a lot of professional sporting competitions but is managed better. I've never stated or implied that it is impossible for the Raiders, Warriors or yes even the Titans to be top of the NRL pile, it just comes with more hurdles than other clubs like Broncos, Roosters, Souths and a few others (IMO). That's where i'm at and in many ways makes it more satisfying when we are doing well.

I’m certainly not singling you out as a whinger mate. I enjoy reading your views on most things.

There’s certainly some disparity between the teams in terms of TPAs but as you can see with our team at the movement there are other recruitment pathways that other teams aren’t pursuing and they can work for you.

For years the club has made excuses about how hard it is to recruit then all of a sudden we are recruiting English internationals who are carving it up like it’s nothing at all.

At the end of the day it’s just footy and if you’re not enjoying it then continuing to watch is lunacy!

I also think it’s funny that the same people that think there are broad conspiracies also think the administration couldn’t organise a chook raffle!

What it comes down to is that most people only watch their own team every week and so they’re pretty unaware of how many terrible decisions there are every weekend that impact games but unless you want to review every play the standard can’t get too much better!

[greeneyed]

I don't believe in any conspiracies. I believe the NRL has a range of policies that directly and deliberately and openly favour some clubs over others. So that there is an uneven playing field, with the Raiders disadvantaged by a number of them.

I don't believe the game is officiated in its various dimensions in a way that is deliberately biased. There are no conspiracies. However, I do believe that there are unconscious or unrecognised biases which tend to favour star teams and players. At the moment, the Raiders don't benefit from that... but as they build player profiles and if they start to regularly become a genuine premiership threat... they may actually become beneficiaries of these unrecognised biases.

They're well based views, based on evidence. Some posters resort to mockery and personal attack as a form of "argument"... however, in my view, that do that because they have an agenda, and can't actually find a way to undermine what I say on these issues with evidence.

[Botman]

What you say on these issues have been regularly and routinely undermined.
As a great man once said, you can lead a horse to beer but you can't stop him drinking it.

[The Nickman]

What you say on these issues have been regularly and routinely undermined.
As a great man once said, you can lead a horse to beer but you can't stop him drinking it.

And as another great man once said, it's about time you pumped up, you weak prick!

[pickles]

I don't believe in any conspiracies. I believe the NRL has a range of policies that directly and deliberately and openly favour some clubs over others. So that there is an uneven playing field, with the Raiders disadvantaged by a number of them.

I don't believe the game is officiated in its various dimensions in a way that is deliberately biased. There are no conspiracies. However, I do believe that there are unconscious or unrecognised biases which tend to favour star teams and players. At the moment, the Raiders don't benefit from that... but as they build player profiles and if they start to regularly become a genuine premiership threat... they may actually become beneficiaries of these unrecognised biases.

They're well based views, based on evidence. Some posters resort to mockery and personal attack as a form of "argument"... however, in my view, that do that because they have an agenda, and can't actually find a way to undermine what I say on these issues with evidence.

TPAs and FTA coverage are the 2 big factors that the NRL does have control over that create a disparity between teams but neither are things that are impossible to overcome. The Storm have had one of the lowest rates of FTA coverage in the comp and have still managed to be very successful and the Donkeys, who have massive advantages in both areas, aren't going great this year and haven't been a serious premiership threat for some time.

Roster management is probably the biggest factor in the long term success of a club and any mistake can be incredibly costly. We experienced that to a degree with signing Campo long term prior to his injury but if you look at the dogs now they are probably a few years of being competitive from a roster perspective due to some really poor decision making. The Storm have had the amazing luck that their best player for years has hardly ever been out injured.

Unconscious bias might play a part in some decision making on the field but as I have said before it is most prevalent in the eyes of fans. The majority of fans only have a passing interest in games where the team they support doesn't play. Games involving their team are highly scrutinised but with a very lopsided assessment. Once you see some wrong decisions go against your team and they happen in every game you can develop a belief that your team is treated differently. Once you have this belief confirmation bias can kick in and you focus on the evidence that supports the belief which reinforces it and continues the spiral.

On a final point even if there was a massive conspiracy against the Raiders and the NRL actually turned out to be much more like professional wrestling I only have choices. Suspend disbelief and enjoy it anyway or walk away. For me spending any energy or thought being embittered about the Raiders lost is wasted energy and I have no space in my life for it.

[dubby]

That's putting it mildly

The NRL are a poorly run organisation.

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[Northern Raider]

I don't believe in any conspiracies. I believe the NRL has a range of policies that directly and deliberately and openly favour some clubs over others. So that there is an uneven playing field, with the Raiders disadvantaged by a number of them.

I don't believe the game is officiated in its various dimensions in a way that is deliberately biased. There are no conspiracies. However, I do believe that there are unconscious or unrecognised biases which tend to favour star teams and players. At the moment, the Raiders don't benefit from that... but as they build player profiles and if they start to regularly become a genuine premiership threat... they may actually become beneficiaries of these unrecognised biases.

They're well based views, based on evidence. Some posters resort to mockery and personal attack as a form of "argument"... however, in my view, that do that because they have an agenda, and can't actually find a way to undermine what I say on these issues with evidence.

TPAs and FTA coverage are the 2 big factors that the NRL does have control over that create a disparity between teams but neither are things that are impossible to overcome. The Storm have had one of the lowest rates of FTA coverage in the comp and have still managed to be very successful and the Donkeys, who have massive advantages in both areas, aren't going great this year and haven't been a serious premiership threat for some time.

Roster management is probably the biggest factor in the long term success of a club and any mistake can be incredibly costly. We experienced that to a degree with signing Campo long term prior to his injury but if you look at the dogs now they are probably a few years of being competitive from a roster perspective due to some really poor decision making. The Storm have had the amazing luck that their best player for years has hardly ever been out injured.

Unconscious bias might play a part in some decision making on the field but as I have said before it is most prevalent in the eyes of fans. The majority of fans only have a passing interest in games where the team they support doesn't play. Games involving their team are highly scrutinised but with a very lopsided assessment. Once you see some wrong decisions go against your team and they happen in every game you can develop a belief that your team is treated differently. Once you have this belief confirmation bias can kick in and you focus on the evidence that supports the belief which reinforces it and continues the spiral.

On a final point even if there was a massive conspiracy against the Raiders and the NRL actually turned out to be much more like professional wrestling I only have choices. Suspend disbelief and enjoy it anyway or walk away. For me spending any energy or thought being embittered about the Raiders lost is wasted energy and I have no space in my life for it.

Good post pickles but I need to raise a couple of points with you.

Storm are not the best example to use of a club overcoming disparity in TPAs. We all know that they achieved this previously through an unprecedented level of cap cheating. I'm not about to assume they haven't simply got better at cheating. That said I don't think their recent success is as much about roster management as it is about the coach being able to get the best out of their roster. This makes them the exception rather than the norm. Roosters on the other hand definitely do exploit the system and have built their success on stock piling the top talent.

Your last paragraph is also another example of using hyperbole to undermine the point being made by people like GE and Woodgers. There is not "massive conspiracy against the Raiders". Nobody (rational) is making that claim. Bias exists in all sporting bodies but bias does not equate to conspiracy. Decisions, rules etc that favour certain clubs are not made with the sole intention of undermining others. The NRL in general does not "hate" the Raiders and they are not out to get us. It's more a case that they don't have much care for the Raiders. I would say apathetic it a more accurate word to describe their approach to us.

[Coastalraider]

I don't believe in any conspiracies. I believe the NRL has a range of policies that directly and deliberately and openly favour some clubs over others. So that there is an uneven playing field, with the Raiders disadvantaged by a number of them.

I don't believe the game is officiated in its various dimensions in a way that is deliberately biased. There are no conspiracies. However, I do believe that there are unconscious or unrecognised biases which tend to favour star teams and players. At the moment, the Raiders don't benefit from that... but as they build player profiles and if they start to regularly become a genuine premiership threat... they may actually become beneficiaries of these unrecognised biases.

They're well based views, based on evidence. Some posters resort to mockery and personal attack as a form of "argument"... however, in my view, that do that because they have an agenda, and can't actually find a way to undermine what I say on these issues with evidence.

TPAs and FTA coverage are the 2 big factors that the NRL does have control over that create a disparity between teams but neither are things that are impossible to overcome. The Storm have had one of the lowest rates of FTA coverage in the comp and have still managed to be very successful and the Donkeys, who have massive advantages in both areas, aren't going great this year and haven't been a serious premiership threat for some time.

Roster management is probably the biggest factor in the long term success of a club and any mistake can be incredibly costly. We experienced that to a degree with signing Campo long term prior to his injury but if you look at the dogs now they are probably a few years of being competitive from a roster perspective due to some really poor decision making. The Storm have had the amazing luck that their best player for years has hardly ever been out injured.

Unconscious bias might play a part in some decision making on the field but as I have said before it is most prevalent in the eyes of fans. The majority of fans only have a passing interest in games where the team they support doesn't play. Games involving their team are highly scrutinised but with a very lopsided assessment. Once you see some wrong decisions go against your team and they happen in every game you can develop a belief that your team is treated differently. Once you have this belief confirmation bias can kick in and you focus on the evidence that supports the belief which reinforces it and continues the spiral.

On a final point even if there was a massive conspiracy against the Raiders and the NRL actually turned out to be much more like professional wrestling I only have choices. Suspend disbelief and enjoy it anyway or walk away. For me spending any energy or thought being embittered about the Raiders lost is wasted energy and I have no space in my life for it.

Good post pickles but I need to raise a couple of points with you.

Storm are not the best example to use of a club overcoming disparity in TPAs. We all know that they achieved this previously through an unprecedented level of cap cheating. I'm not about to assume they haven't simply got better at cheating. That said I don't think their recent success is as much about roster management as it is about the coach being able to get the best out of their roster. This makes them the exception rather than the norm. Roosters on the other hand definitely do exploit the system and have built their success on stock piling the top talent.

Your last paragraph is also another example of using hyperbole to undermine the point being made by people like GE and Woodgers. There is not "massive conspiracy against the Raiders". Nobody (rational) is making that claim. Bias exists in all sporting bodies but bias does not equate to conspiracy. Decisions, rules etc that favour certain clubs are not made with the sole intention of undermining others. The NRL in general does not "hate" the Raiders and they are not out to get us. It's more a case that they don't have much care for the Raiders. I would say apathetic it a more accurate word to describe their approach to us.

Just wanted to say there are some really good points i this chain, and all were made calmly and with good reasoning.

Good work team

[pickles]

I don't believe in any conspiracies. I believe the NRL has a range of policies that directly and deliberately and openly favour some clubs over others. So that there is an uneven playing field, with the Raiders disadvantaged by a number of them.

I don't believe the game is officiated in its various dimensions in a way that is deliberately biased. There are no conspiracies. However, I do believe that there are unconscious or unrecognised biases which tend to favour star teams and players. At the moment, the Raiders don't benefit from that... but as they build player profiles and if they start to regularly become a genuine premiership threat... they may actually become beneficiaries of these unrecognised biases.

They're well based views, based on evidence. Some posters resort to mockery and personal attack as a form of "argument"... however, in my view, that do that because they have an agenda, and can't actually find a way to undermine what I say on these issues with evidence.

TPAs and FTA coverage are the 2 big factors that the NRL does have control over that create a disparity between teams but neither are things that are impossible to overcome. The Storm have had one of the lowest rates of FTA coverage in the comp and have still managed to be very successful and the Donkeys, who have massive advantages in both areas, aren't going great this year and haven't been a serious premiership threat for some time.

Roster management is probably the biggest factor in the long term success of a club and any mistake can be incredibly costly. We experienced that to a degree with signing Campo long term prior to his injury but if you look at the dogs now they are probably a few years of being competitive from a roster perspective due to some really poor decision making. The Storm have had the amazing luck that their best player for years has hardly ever been out injured.

Unconscious bias might play a part in some decision making on the field but as I have said before it is most prevalent in the eyes of fans. The majority of fans only have a passing interest in games where the team they support doesn't play. Games involving their team are highly scrutinised but with a very lopsided assessment. Once you see some wrong decisions go against your team and they happen in every game you can develop a belief that your team is treated differently. Once you have this belief confirmation bias can kick in and you focus on the evidence that supports the belief which reinforces it and continues the spiral.

On a final point even if there was a massive conspiracy against the Raiders and the NRL actually turned out to be much more like professional wrestling I only have choices. Suspend disbelief and enjoy it anyway or walk away. For me spending any energy or thought being embittered about the Raiders lost is wasted energy and I have no space in my life for it.

Good post pickles but I need to raise a couple of points with you.

Storm are not the best example to use of a club overcoming disparity in TPAs. We all know that they achieved this previously through an unprecedented level of cap cheating. I'm not about to assume they haven't simply got better at cheating. That said I don't think their recent success is as much about roster management as it is about the coach being able to get the best out of their roster. This makes them the exception rather than the norm. Roosters on the other hand definitely do exploit the system and have built their success on stock piling the top talent.

Your last paragraph is also another example of using hyperbole to undermine the point being made by people like GE and Woodgers. There is not "massive conspiracy against the Raiders". Nobody (rational) is making that claim. Bias exists in all sporting bodies but bias does not equate to conspiracy. Decisions, rules etc that favour certain clubs are not made with the sole intention of undermining others. The NRL in general does not "hate" the Raiders and they are not out to get us. It's more a case that they don't have much care for the Raiders. I would say apathetic it a more accurate word to describe their approach to us.

With the storm I was more referring to the lack of free to air coverage they have received which is disproportional to their success and I think most would acknowledge, has a flow on effect to sponsorship and exposure. They should have good access to TPAs being a sole club in a big city but there’s also no doubt that cheating helped them build and maintain a roster. Happy with that.

I was also making the point that the storm have been lucky with the fitness of their star players and this can kill a roster pretty quickly. Imagine if taumololo copped an injury that made him half the player he was after 12 months of not playing. The cowboys would struggle.

I also think I acknowledged that there are some structural things in the game that don’t help or hinder all clubs equally. I was more trying to demonstrate the train of thought that leads to some fans having conspiracy theories and believe me, there are plenty of them out there. I certainly wasn’t referring to GE in that sense so I hope that was clear.

My dad does believe it’s a conspiracy and as a result I can barely talk to him about football which is a shame because we’ve been watching the raiders together since I was 6. The worst part is how much enjoyment it has sapped out of the game for him. I probably ended up in a similar headspace at times myself and am enjoying footy a lot more with a different view on it all.

[Northern Raider]

Fair enough pickles.

Re: Cowboys and Taumololo example. I think they're already experiencing that with Michael Morgan. He was a stud before that torn bicep. Been a shadow of that play since.