Where do you rank Papalii?

All the news on the Canberra Raiders NRL team, all in one place

Moderator: GH Moderators

User avatar
Lui_Bon
Jason Croker
Posts: 4155
Joined: June 3, 2009, 4:07 pm

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by Lui_Bon »

RedRaider wrote: July 23, 2019, 7:10 pm So many good players Rickman, once I had settled for Badge I stuck with regular wingers over Mullos. I have Badge as the better all round footballer but fully understand the selection of Mullos. The Turbo Tom of his time.
I will never ever rate Mullins ahead of Badge. For several reasons. But Red I'm surprised you wouldn't have picked Noa ahead or Rapa... maybe it's a longevity thing.

But back on topic, I also remembered Scott Logan today, as well as Nana Grant. If I really had to I could rate Neville Bloody Costigan in there, and for a sublime season even Bronson Harrison at hist best should be highly rated. I guess that it's more of a sample - rating every Raiders forward vis-a-vis every other one is a project I'll leave to Gorsky.
User avatar
BadnMean
Steve Walters
Posts: 7593
Joined: May 13, 2013, 5:30 pm
Favourite Player: chicka

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by BadnMean »

The Rickman wrote: July 23, 2019, 5:39 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 23, 2019, 5:34 pm GE, there is no doubt Qld can produce top quality Hookers. Kelly would not have been much bigger than Walters but was able to play both hooker and prop at International level and excel at both. There were a number of great hookers during his era, but he was so good the selectors couldn't leave him out of the side National side. Not only toughness, the straight running and the tough defence and ability to ball play. Again it was a different era in that the players copped and gave a lot more 'outside the rule book'. I don't doubt the toughness of todays players, but they are highly protected in comparison to what I remember of the 60s. Not only did that era of players cop all of that stuff they also had to show their skill level knowing what was to come.

Anyhow, I would have Papa in my all time Raiders team, probably at Prop with Lazo, and with a Wiki, Furner, Clyde back row and Toots off the bench. Walters at Hooker and Mal as Captain. Stuart Halfback, Badge Fullback, Loz at 5/8 with O'Sullivan also on the bench. I now rate Rapa as my best right winger and Ken Nagas on the left. I think the Clubs highest point scorer would be at left center in JC. Logan and Lance would be my other two off the bench.
Hey Red, I'd have the same starting team as you, only I'd have Mullins at the back and Nadruku on the wing instead of Kenny Nagas. Both just entirely personal preferences. Bench I'm not so sure about, so many players to choose from! But Jason Croker would definitely be there! Maybe Campo too (pre-knee)...
You guys are dreaming if you can pick an atg Raiders team without Chicka on the left wing. Give yourselves a big swinging head high arm- but duck under it like Chicka, dance away off the left foot, accelerate, step a few more and avoid the hit. Just because I'm feeling generous.
User avatar
Seiffert82
Mal Meninga
Posts: 27845
Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
Favourite Player: Bay56

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Lui_Bon wrote: July 23, 2019, 12:36 am
Seiffert82 wrote: July 22, 2019, 11:23 pm 1. Clyde - absolute machine and despite being rated a great, was still largely under-rated in an age where interchange wasn't a thing. J. Taumalolo is the closest thing I've seen to him. Rarely missed tackles, led the kick chase, often made the first hitup and regularly made multiple hitups in a set. Motor like Phar Lap.
2. Lazarus - arguably the greatest front rower of all time. His record at three clubs speaks volumes. So agile for a big man - tough and smart. Great leader.
3. Wiki - absolute tragedy he didn't finish his career here. Over 300 NRL games and 55 tests for NZ. None of them duds. Tough, fast and could hit like an Exocet Missile. Was a great centre, but I just LOVED watching him own the opposition in the forwards.
4. Papalii - as good as any of these guys at his best (like now), but some consistency and professionalism issues over the years counts against him IMO.
5. Walters - hard to rate hookers in comparison to other forwards and his game was played in an era completely different to that of Smith, but delivered the ball like clockwork, made huge yards in the middle and was rock solid in defence. Tough bastard too. The complete package at hooker in those days.
So many arguments...

On Papa, I could only say that he's getting there. He unlike Furner hasn't won a Clive Churchill medal so who is the better backrower? On the other hand Clyde only deserved one of his two, so there you go... Wiki never won anything in the forwards... (sorry, just going for the so-called cold hard truth).

To be fair, I'm backing Lazzo for greatest of OUR front rowers. Clyde was a marvel but he should never be an Immortal. Boxhead was great but I honestly think that as far as innovators at dummy half go, Ben Elias was actually more better - he had the dummy and the kick, Walters just had the run. Of course people like Buderus could do both but only because they'd been shown that they could, just like Johns had the kicks and the runs only because Stuart and Langer had shown them that they could....(I don't much like Newcastle).

But apart from that rambling, at the moment I'd rate, off the top of my head:

Lazarus, Clyde
Furner, Walters
Backo, Croker, Wiki, Papalii, Lance
Tongue, Todd, Lomax, Pongia, Kennedy, Coyne
Weyman, Learroyd-Lahrs, Davico

And I wouldn't want to try fitting any other contemporaries except Josh in there yet because it's too hard.
Yeah, Boxhead definitely had a limited skill set, but everything he did was quality. He was a master of the rake to get the ball back at first marker...a bit like Hodgo with his one on one steals. Just so reliable.
User avatar
Lui_Bon
Jason Croker
Posts: 4155
Joined: June 3, 2009, 4:07 pm

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by Lui_Bon »

Seiffert82 wrote: July 23, 2019, 11:02 pm
Lui_Bon wrote: July 23, 2019, 12:36 am
Seiffert82 wrote: July 22, 2019, 11:23 pm 1. Clyde - absolute machine and despite being rated a great, was still largely under-rated in an age where interchange wasn't a thing. J. Taumalolo is the closest thing I've seen to him. Rarely missed tackles, led the kick chase, often made the first hitup and regularly made multiple hitups in a set. Motor like Phar Lap.
2. Lazarus - arguably the greatest front rower of all time. His record at three clubs speaks volumes. So agile for a big man - tough and smart. Great leader.
3. Wiki - absolute tragedy he didn't finish his career here. Over 300 NRL games and 55 tests for NZ. None of them duds. Tough, fast and could hit like an Exocet Missile. Was a great centre, but I just LOVED watching him own the opposition in the forwards.
4. Papalii - as good as any of these guys at his best (like now), but some consistency and professionalism issues over the years counts against him IMO.
5. Walters - hard to rate hookers in comparison to other forwards and his game was played in an era completely different to that of Smith, but delivered the ball like clockwork, made huge yards in the middle and was rock solid in defence. Tough bastard too. The complete package at hooker in those days.
So many arguments...

On Papa, I could only say that he's getting there. He unlike Furner hasn't won a Clive Churchill medal so who is the better backrower? On the other hand Clyde only deserved one of his two, so there you go... Wiki never won anything in the forwards... (sorry, just going for the so-called cold hard truth).

To be fair, I'm backing Lazzo for greatest of OUR front rowers. Clyde was a marvel but he should never be an Immortal. Boxhead was great but I honestly think that as far as innovators at dummy half go, Ben Elias was actually more better - he had the dummy and the kick, Walters just had the run. Of course people like Buderus could do both but only because they'd been shown that they could, just like Johns had the kicks and the runs only because Stuart and Langer had shown them that they could....(I don't much like Newcastle).

But apart from that rambling, at the moment I'd rate, off the top of my head:

Lazarus, Clyde
Furner, Walters
Backo, Croker, Wiki, Papalii, Lance
Tongue, Todd, Lomax, Pongia, Kennedy, Coyne
Weyman, Learroyd-Lahrs, Davico

And I wouldn't want to try fitting any other contemporaries except Josh in there yet because it's too hard.
Yeah, Boxhead definitely had a limited skill set, but everything he did was quality. He was a master of the rake to get the ball back at first marker...a bit like Hodgo with his one on one steals. Just so reliable.
No doubt - the Walters rake was a thing of beauty, but to be honest I think I saw Elias doing it before then. Probably not as well, but what Elias could do was jump out of dummy half (well take two steps anyway) and suck in the defence before passing. Box didn't so that so much, he more likely just ran. And probably faster than Benny. So yeah, they were all good at different things, I have a horrible feeling that all round I'd rate Benny just a bit better. Don't tell Steve.

As for Hodgo's steals - isn't it funny that it's all about Munster yet Josh has about three times as many. I guess it's just whose cameras you do them in front of...
User avatar
Seiffert82
Mal Meninga
Posts: 27845
Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
Favourite Player: Bay56

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Lui_Bon wrote: July 23, 2019, 11:29 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: July 23, 2019, 11:02 pm
Lui_Bon wrote: July 23, 2019, 12:36 am
Seiffert82 wrote: July 22, 2019, 11:23 pm 1. Clyde - absolute machine and despite being rated a great, was still largely under-rated in an age where interchange wasn't a thing. J. Taumalolo is the closest thing I've seen to him. Rarely missed tackles, led the kick chase, often made the first hitup and regularly made multiple hitups in a set. Motor like Phar Lap.
2. Lazarus - arguably the greatest front rower of all time. His record at three clubs speaks volumes. So agile for a big man - tough and smart. Great leader.
3. Wiki - absolute tragedy he didn't finish his career here. Over 300 NRL games and 55 tests for NZ. None of them duds. Tough, fast and could hit like an Exocet Missile. Was a great centre, but I just LOVED watching him own the opposition in the forwards.
4. Papalii - as good as any of these guys at his best (like now), but some consistency and professionalism issues over the years counts against him IMO.
5. Walters - hard to rate hookers in comparison to other forwards and his game was played in an era completely different to that of Smith, but delivered the ball like clockwork, made huge yards in the middle and was rock solid in defence. Tough bastard too. The complete package at hooker in those days.
So many arguments...

On Papa, I could only say that he's getting there. He unlike Furner hasn't won a Clive Churchill medal so who is the better backrower? On the other hand Clyde only deserved one of his two, so there you go... Wiki never won anything in the forwards... (sorry, just going for the so-called cold hard truth).

To be fair, I'm backing Lazzo for greatest of OUR front rowers. Clyde was a marvel but he should never be an Immortal. Boxhead was great but I honestly think that as far as innovators at dummy half go, Ben Elias was actually more better - he had the dummy and the kick, Walters just had the run. Of course people like Buderus could do both but only because they'd been shown that they could, just like Johns had the kicks and the runs only because Stuart and Langer had shown them that they could....(I don't much like Newcastle).

But apart from that rambling, at the moment I'd rate, off the top of my head:

Lazarus, Clyde
Furner, Walters
Backo, Croker, Wiki, Papalii, Lance
Tongue, Todd, Lomax, Pongia, Kennedy, Coyne
Weyman, Learroyd-Lahrs, Davico

And I wouldn't want to try fitting any other contemporaries except Josh in there yet because it's too hard.
Yeah, Boxhead definitely had a limited skill set, but everything he did was quality. He was a master of the rake to get the ball back at first marker...a bit like Hodgo with his one on one steals. Just so reliable.
No doubt - the Walters rake was a thing of beauty, but to be honest I think I saw Elias doing it before then. Probably not as well, but what Elias could do was jump out of dummy half (well take two steps anyway) and suck in the defence before passing. Box didn't so that so much, he more likely just ran. And probably faster than Benny. So yeah, they were all good at different things, I have a horrible feeling that all round I'd rate Benny just a bit better. Don't tell Steve.

As for Hodgo's steals - isn't it funny that it's all about Munster yet Josh has about three times as many. I guess it's just whose cameras you do them in front of...
Interesting. Walters definitely played more than twice the number of games for Aus than EDIT Benny did. I do agree that Elias had more strings to his bow. I'm just not sure he had the overall toughness and nous to get over Walters. Boxhead certainly had the wood over him most of the times they played against each other IMO.

Kennedy is an interesting pick. He is certainly up there as one of our best, but suffers from the same issue as Lazarus in that he played most of his career elsewhere. At his best he was arguably the best backrower in the game IMO. His career was just slammed by injuries.
twistedbydesign
Simon Woolford
Posts: 400
Joined: March 5, 2007, 2:16 pm

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by twistedbydesign »

Lui_Bon wrote: July 23, 2019, 9:43 pm
RedRaider wrote: July 23, 2019, 7:10 pm So many good players Rickman, once I had settled for Badge I stuck with regular wingers over Mullos. I have Badge as the better all round footballer but fully understand the selection of Mullos. The Turbo Tom of his time.
I will never ever rate Mullins ahead of Badge. For several reasons. But Red I'm surprised you wouldn't have picked Noa ahead or Rapa... maybe it's a longevity thing.

But back on topic, I also remembered Scott Logan today, as well as Nana Grant. If I really had to I could rate Neville Bloody Costigan in there, and for a sublime season even Bronson Harrison at hist best should be highly rated. I guess that it's more of a sample - rating every Raiders forward vis-a-vis every other one is a project I'll leave to Gorsky.
Whilst I loved him as a player, I think Scott Logan is a bit overrated tbh. For me the only two Raiders forwards this century who have been genuinely elite are Papa and Shillo. Logan, TLL, Weyman, Harrison etc had periods of good form, but failed to back it up year after year. Shillo’s last season here (in the media and on the field) has soured many views of him, but the guy delivered 3-4 straight seasons of genuine quality. I think Elliot Whitehead is starting to mount a strong case to be considered in the elite group also.
RedRaider
Laurie Daley
Posts: 11265
Joined: March 3, 2007, 7:02 pm

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by RedRaider »

Twisted, that's the beauty of being a sports fan. We all look for different things in players and games. I would not have Shillo, left too much in the tank too often for me. But I do rate blokes like Darren Fritz and Terry Regan higher. Putting limited skill set to one side, every week they had a go. Not much mention so far for the 'One Moment In Time' players like Paul Osborne and Steve Jackson. When their time came on the big stage, there they were, producing the extraordinary for their team.
twistedbydesign
Simon Woolford
Posts: 400
Joined: March 5, 2007, 2:16 pm

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by twistedbydesign »

BUMP! Without wishing to downplay the contibutions of any of his teammates and the team as a whole, this man is the reason we're in a Grand Final. What a player!
Begbie
Laurie Daley
Posts: 14381
Joined: February 25, 2008, 3:02 pm
Favourite Player: Smash Williams

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by Begbie »

He's just gone up a few notches. A leader of men.
edwahu

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by edwahu »

#1 of the NRL era
#1 prop
6th overall
twistedbydesign
Simon Woolford
Posts: 400
Joined: March 5, 2007, 2:16 pm

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by twistedbydesign »

edwahu wrote: September 27, 2019, 10:30 pm #1 of the NRL era
#1 prop
6th overall
Who are your top 5 mate? I'm thinking Mal, Ricky, Daley, and Clyde are definites, whose the 5th?
edwahu

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by edwahu »

twistedbydesign wrote: September 27, 2019, 10:35 pm
edwahu wrote: September 27, 2019, 10:30 pm #1 of the NRL era
#1 prop
6th overall
Who are your top 5 mate? I'm thinking Mal, Ricky, Daley, and Clyde are definites, whose the 5th?
Boxhead Walters.
User avatar
afgtnk
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10712
Joined: April 7, 2007, 1:45 am
Favourite Player: Crotic

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by afgtnk »

**** me what a player

**** I love him. The **** balls

Every **** time he stands up
User avatar
zim
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10639
Joined: July 8, 2015, 3:38 pm
Favourite Player: NRL: Joseph Tapine
NRLW: Grace Kemp
Location: Sydney

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by zim »

Who thought he could go up yet ANOTHER level. That was amazing.
User avatar
reptar
Laurie Daley
Posts: 15753
Joined: January 25, 2005, 9:24 pm
Favourite Player: Josh Hodgson
Location: Brisbane

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by reptar »

I rate him GRAND FINAL!
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
User avatar
Lui_Bon
Jason Croker
Posts: 4155
Joined: June 3, 2009, 4:07 pm

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by Lui_Bon »

I guess I'd move him up one rung...
EJ
David Furner
Posts: 3983
Joined: February 11, 2005, 11:38 am

Re: Where do you rank Papalii?

Post by EJ »

Very **** high
Post Reply