Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by **greeneyed** » July 16, 2019, 9:06 pm

There is a 1980s spear tackle...

Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 9:09 pm

Why would anyone argue against that? It's a send off, im sure most of us said that at the time too.
How does that mitigate the fact the cotric incident is also worthy of a send off, unless the the contention is the officials were right to keep those players on the field...

and that surely cant be what we're saying?
Or are we saying the referees should be maintain a standard from years ago that is objectively wrong, rather than be right?

Im confused.

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:10 pm

greeneyed wrote:

But no one has seen a worse tackle than Cotric's since the 1970's or 1980s! No send off, twice!

Ray Warren in commentary mentions a 'recent Kristan Inu one' which I remember being really bad too. I couldn't find it on YouTube.

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Post by **greeneyed** » July 16, 2019, 9:12 pm

How about this? This is easily worse than Cotric's tackle.

The Nickman · Post by **The Nickman** » July 16, 2019, 9:12 pm

greeneyed wrote:

There is a 1980s spear tackle...

Was that even a penalty back then? What point are you trying to make?

It’s bedtime Ferg. You’ve had WAY too much red and you need to pump out a fresh edition of Behind Green Eyes tomorrow morning

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:13 pm

PigRickman wrote:Why would anyone argue against that? It's a send off, im sure most of us said that at the time too.
How does that mitigate the fact the cotric incident is also worthy of a send off, unless the the contention is the officials were right to keep those players on the field...

and that surely cant be what we're saying?
Or are we saying the referees should be maintain a standard from years ago that is objectively wrong, rather than be right?

Im confused.

Confused? I think highlighting these tackles emphasise your exaggeration of the Cotric tackle being one of the worst you've seen. We all agree it was bad, but one of the worst ever.... you're dreaming or drunk.

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Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 9:15 pm

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:13 pm
PigRickman wrote:Why would anyone argue against that? It's a send off, im sure most of us said that at the time too.
How does that mitigate the fact the cotric incident is also worthy of a send off, unless the the contention is the officials were right to keep those players on the field...

and that surely cant be what we're saying?
Or are we saying the referees should be maintain a standard from years ago that is objectively wrong, rather than be right?

Im confused.
Confused? I think highlighting these tackles emphasise your exaggeration of the Cotric tackle being one of the worst you've seen. We all agree it was bad, but one of the worst ever.... you're dreaming or drunk.

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One of the videos posted was before i was **** born, gerg! haha
And you can come up with 10 tackles and it WOULD STILL be ONE OF the worst i've seen

ahah
Christ. This is amazing.

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » July 16, 2019, 9:16 pm

Haha, same dude did it twice in one game and didn't get marched. It's a fact of the NRL that you don't get sent off for a Dangerous throw....until now.

Post by **greeneyed** » July 16, 2019, 9:21 pm

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:13 pm
PigRickman wrote:Why would anyone argue against that? It's a send off, im sure most of us said that at the time too.
How does that mitigate the fact the cotric incident is also worthy of a send off, unless the the contention is the officials were right to keep those players on the field...

and that surely cant be what we're saying?
Or are we saying the referees should be maintain a standard from years ago that is objectively wrong, rather than be right?

Im confused.
Confused? I think highlighting these tackles emphasise your exaggeration of the Cotric tackle being one of the worst you've seen. We all agree it was bad, but one of the worst ever.... you're dreaming or drunk.

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Yes gerg, that is the point I'm making. Certain people trying to undermine coach Ricky Stuart said that Nick Cotric's tackle was the worst thing they'd ever seen since the 1970s... maybe 1980s. Certain posters said they hadn't seen something worse for a decade. Well we now see precisely what coach Stuart was saying.

Now, I'm not in any way saying dangerous tackles should not be punished. I think Cotric's grading was one level too severe, but that's done and dusted now. More important, from here the NRL should be consistent in their actions and that the NRL should cease being reactive. They need to be proactive. If this is the new standard, fine... I'll be watching closely to see what actions they now take in future.

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:26 pm

PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:13 pm
PigRickman wrote:Why would anyone argue against that? It's a send off, im sure most of us said that at the time too.
How does that mitigate the fact the cotric incident is also worthy of a send off, unless the the contention is the officials were right to keep those players on the field...

and that surely cant be what we're saying?
Or are we saying the referees should be maintain a standard from years ago that is objectively wrong, rather than be right?

Im confused.
Confused? I think highlighting these tackles emphasise your exaggeration of the Cotric tackle being one of the worst you've seen. We all agree it was bad, but one of the worst ever.... you're dreaming or drunk.

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One of the videos posted was before i was **** born, gerg! haha
And you can come up with 10 tackles and it WOULD STILL be ONE OF the worst i've seen

ahah
Christ. This is amazing.

Also on YouTube is a clip titled 2016 big hits spear tackles which has at least 4 tackles worse than Cotric's. That's just one season. How long you been watching the game?

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gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:28 pm

greeneyed wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:13 pm
PigRickman wrote:Why would anyone argue against that? It's a send off, im sure most of us said that at the time too.
How does that mitigate the fact the cotric incident is also worthy of a send off, unless the the contention is the officials were right to keep those players on the field...

and that surely cant be what we're saying?
Or are we saying the referees should be maintain a standard from years ago that is objectively wrong, rather than be right?

Im confused.
Confused? I think highlighting these tackles emphasise your exaggeration of the Cotric tackle being one of the worst you've seen. We all agree it was bad, but one of the worst ever.... you're dreaming or drunk.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Yes gerg, that is the point I'm making. Certain people trying to undermine coach Ricky Stuart said that Nick Cotric's tackle was the worst thing they'd ever seen since the 1970s... maybe 1980s. Certain posters said they hadn't seen something worse for a decade. Well we now see precisely what coach Stuart was saying.

Now, I'm not in any way saying dangerous tackles should not be punished. I think Cotric's grading was one level too severe, but that's done and dusted now. More important, from here the NRL should be consistent in their actions and that the NRL should cease being reactive. They need to be proactive. If this is the new standard, fine... I'll be watching closely to see what actions they now take in future.

I don't think there will be another send off for a lifting tackle this year, or maybe even a few years.

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Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 9:28 pm

Just so im clear...

GE has posted videos of half a dozen tackles since 1980... and lets for arguement say they are all worse than Nic's

6 odd tackles in near 40 years of football, which equates to...
Ok, lets say 200 games a year (under cooking it), 300 tackles a game (undercooking it)

so 40x200 is 8,000 games.
IN which 300 tackles may have been made... so that's 8,000 x 300 = 2,400,000 tackles

and we've got SIX
Count em, 1-2-3-4-5-6 that are on par with Cotrics

So Cotric's tackle worse than 99.999999975% of tackles?

Is this it? Is this what we're doing?

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:31 pm

That is just a few that can be quickly found on YouTube, which is at best an unreliable resource.

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Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » July 16, 2019, 9:32 pm

I'm actually not sure what everyone is arguing about. Something to do with Cotric being the worst tackle since Cam Smith chicken winged Alex McKinnon.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 9:35 pm

I honestly cant believe we're doing this. This place finds new ways to amaze me. It really does.
I've got to speak to iinet tomorrow about getting my service shut down, i think ive stumbled into some dark web cult thing here.

Post by **greeneyed** » July 16, 2019, 9:37 pm

You were the posters saying you hadn't seen anything worse than Nick Cotric's tackle in a decade or more. We've just easily found a heap examples from a simple five minute search on YouTube! The Emperors' have no clothes! The Rick men are off the cart clearly, undermining Ricky! It is sad to see really.

Post by **greeneyed** » July 16, 2019, 9:39 pm

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:31 pm That is just a few that can be quickly found on YouTube, which is at best an unreliable resource.

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But they are videos showing what happened...

Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 9:39 pm

They arent all worse! and even if they were his TACKLE WOULD STILL BE ONE OF the worst i've seen

Marrrrone. This is next level.

PS. Please dont edit this GE

PPS (also, really dont edit this, the point needs emphisising because, clearly... well it needs emphisising)

PPPS. Please dont edit this GE

The Nickman · Post by **The Nickman** » July 16, 2019, 9:44 pm

Haha this is genuinely amazing stuff here

We’re through the looking glass, people

zim · Post by **zim** » July 16, 2019, 9:51 pm

The Rickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 6:39 pm I wouldn’t agree to that, zim

He's made a moo point there.

And just for the record these are the 10 worst spears I've ever seen:

Post by **greeneyed** » July 16, 2019, 9:53 pm

It is pretty simple. There are some posters backing Ricky with video evidence... and some aren't.

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:53 pm

PigRickman wrote:They arent all worse! and even if they were his TACKLE WOULD STILL BE ONE OF the worst i've seen

Marrrrone. This is next level.

Amazing stuff indeed. You said 10 tackles.

In the last clip that I mentioned... 2016 big hits there is 4 worse tackles. We'll use that as a rough indicator - 4 worse tackles per season. Cotric's is in the top 10 worst tackles you've seen - so I can only assume you've been watching the game for about 3 years or so.

Being such a relative newcomer to the sport would you like me to step you through some of the rules? Shall I start with the 40/20?

Or let's just carry on - Nickman already has the groundskeepers on standby to help you shift those goalposts.

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Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 9:55 pm

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:53 pm
In the last clip that I mentioned... 2016 big hits there is 4 worse tackles. W

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No. THere wasnt.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 9:56 pm

zim wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:51 pm
The Rickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 6:39 pm I wouldn’t agree to that, zim
He's made a moo point there.

And just for the record these are the 10 worst spears I've ever seen:

God i loved E&C.
The promo they cut where they did entrence musics on the kazoo will live with me until the day i die. I **** pissed myself laughing.

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:56 pm

PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:53 pm
In the last clip that I mentioned... 2016 big hits there is 4 worse tackles. W

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No. THere wasnt.

Post the clip, I don't know how to on my phone. How many you got from that clip? Let's step through them.

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gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 9:59 pm

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zim · Post by **zim** » July 16, 2019, 10:00 pm

PigRickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:56 pm
zim wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:51 pm
The Rickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 6:39 pm I wouldn’t agree to that, zim
He's made a moo point there.

And just for the record these are the 10 worst spears I've ever seen:

God i loved E&C.
The promo they cut where they did entrence musics on the kazoo will live with me until the day i die. I **** pissed myself laughing.

Was always annoyed he had to retire. Such a big pop on the unexpected entrances with that sick intro.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 10:05 pm

zim wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 10:00 pm Was always annoyed he had to retire. Such a big pop on the unexpected entrances with that sick intro.

I've weirdly got his entrance song on my ipod that sometimes comes on, i loved him so much.

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:56 pm
PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 9:53 pm
In the last clip that I mentioned... 2016 big hits there is 4 worse tackles. W

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No. THere wasnt.
Post the clip, I don't know how to on my phone. How many you got from that clip? Let's step through them.

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How about this, ill say the Thiaday and Peachey tackles are in the realm. If you want to die on a hill and say those two are as bad, ill agree. Worse? No. They're all essentially the same tackle.

That's it. No idea where the other two are coming from.
I assumed the clip mentioned was this:

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 10:09 pm

At 0.29 Peachey flips Blair (this was also after the whistle).
Very next tackle Thaiday on a Manly player.

At about 1.50 a warriors player on a knights player, quickly followed by a Bulldogs player on a warriors player. The tackled player on both of these doesn't come down on their head or shoulder area but the fact they were flipped above horizontal at a greater height makes it more dangerous.

2.27... probably the worst of the lot. Origin game, two player tackle and tackled player ends up in a seriously dangerous position.

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Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 16, 2019, 10:17 pm

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 10:09 pm At about 1.50 a warriors player on a knights player,

Lands SLAP bang on his back, he's horizontal, nothing close to vertical. There is NO chance you truly believe that tackle is worse. None. Dangerous position? Absolutely but landing on your back is not even in the same class as the head. Christ

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 10:09 pm quickly followed by a Bulldogs player on a warriors player. The tackled player on both of these doesn't come down on their head or shoulder area but the fact they were flipped above horizontal at a greater height makes it more dangerous.

Also lands flat on his back, again horizontal, nothing close to vertical. Again, very dangerous but the player never goes head first into the ground, or goes close to it.

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 10:09 pm 2.27... probably the worst of the lot. Origin game, two player tackle and tackled player ends up in a seriously dangerous position.

Two players involved and very dangerous again, this one more so. The tackled player absolutely gets beyond horizontal but if you truly think that tackle, where the player is flipped and lands in that position is more dangerous than being dumped on his **** head, you're out of this world

I should section you for this post. Unbelievable

gerg · Post by **gerg** » July 16, 2019, 10:42 pm

The first two I concede but the last one (origin) is by far the worst. One tackler lifts him up and the second tackler drags him straight back down head first. Anything could have happened there.

That's 3 in 2016 and a 'fan video' is hardly definitive of the season as a whole. So a minimum of 3 in one year... But I guess 2016 was an outlier and no other dangerous tackles have occurred - or at least 7 more - in how long... How long did you say you've been watching the game?

To use your own phrase here, you're not really going to die on this hill are you?

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Seiffert82 · Post by **Seiffert82** » July 17, 2019, 12:57 am

The Rickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 2:46 pm
PigRickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 2:02 pm I GUARANTEE you the response here would be totally different if that was Lafai tackling Cotric, we'd have howls here of the NRL looking after the Dragons and about how it's absurd that Lafai is out only 3 weeks for that tackle. I guarantee it.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that is how it would go down if the situation were reversed. Not even remotely a shred of doubt.

Huh? He got charged with the highest possible grading - short of being referred straight to the judiciary, which is reserved for intentional malicious offences! How on earth could anyone argue against the penalty handed down?

If he does it again he cops a 50% loading. That's what I like about the system. First offence you cop the punishment according to the rules and there's an incentive to plead guilty and get on with it. He also got a bonus reduction because of the time he spent off the field during the game. Second offence and they throw the book at you.

I actually quite like the judiciary system.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » July 17, 2019, 7:06 am

gergreg wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 10:42 pm The first two I concede but the last one (origin) is by far the worst. One tackler lifts him up and the second tackler drags him straight back down head first. Anything could have happened there.

That's 3 in 2016 and a 'fan video' is hardly definitive of the season as a whole. So a minimum of 3 in one year... But I guess 2016 was an outlier and no other dangerous tackles have occurred - or at least 7 more - in how long... How long did you say you've been watching the game?

To use your own phrase here, you're not really going to die on this hill are you?

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So far between the two of you geniuses, you’ve managed to find about 3-4 tackles in the same style as Nic’a and two tackles (the ones I nominated to begin with!) that are worst

Since 1980.
Yeah I think you guys have done a tremendous job proving my point that this tackle was indeed one of the worst we’ve seen in the NRL era

The real question here is why on earth are you so determined to downplay this?
The ruling has been made and the sentence passed down... and to end? If you find 10-20 even 30 tackles (which you can’t seem to do) that we’d all agree are worst like the LOD tackle, how does that prove this isn’t one of the worst seen?

A top 30 dangerous tackle since 1998, in which we’ve probably seen in excess of 3million tackles completed, would still be justified in being described as one of the worst we’ve seen

This utterly strange behaviour

The Nickman · Post by **The Nickman** » July 17, 2019, 7:23 am

Seiffert82 wrote:
The Rickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 2:46 pm
PigRickman wrote: ↑July 16, 2019, 2:02 pm I GUARANTEE you the response here would be totally different if that was Lafai tackling Cotric, we'd have howls here of the NRL looking after the Dragons and about how it's absurd that Lafai is out only 3 weeks for that tackle. I guarantee it.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that is how it would go down if the situation were reversed. Not even remotely a shred of doubt.
Huh? He got charged with the highest possible grading - short of being referred straight to the judiciary, which is reserved for intentional malicious offences! How on earth could anyone argue against the penalty handed down?

If he does it again he cops a 50% loading. That's what I like about the system. First offence you cop the punishment according to the rules and there's an incentive to plead guilty and get on with it. He also got a bonus reduction because of the time he spent off the field during the game. Second offence and they throw the book at you.

I actually quite like the judiciary system.

So do I, I think the system works. The fact he got charged with the worst kind of dangerous throw and got downgraded to 3 weeks because essentially it’s “not his go” (no priors), yet Warea-Hargreaves would get 8 weeks for the same tackle is the reason the system is so good in my opinion

I think our original point that your “huh”ing is us saying that the forum would be in an uproar if the situation were reversed. And guys like Ferg and gerg and gangrenous (I shall from now on refer to the collective as “fergrenous”) would ABSOLUTELY be blowing up if Lafai had done that to our Nick and copped anything less than 8 weeks, regardless of prior record. It doesn’t need to make sense to fergrenous, it’s just unfair, everything’s unfair

gangrenous · Post by **gangrenous** » July 17, 2019, 7:54 am

JWH is playing this week after another grub act. That is unfair.

Personally I think Cotric should still have 4-5 weeks with no priors for that tackle. I don’t think it’s intentional, but it doesn’t matter, there has to be strong disincentive to get that result out of the game. I don’t think 3 weeks quite cuts that.