Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Re: Cotric and the judiciary

Post by Beejay »

This judiciary sheet shows the massive difference prior charges play in the weeks a player receives.
JWH would get absolutely slammed if he was facing Cotrics charge. Would be 1100 points (11weeks), and 825 with and early plea (8weeks).

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Re: Cotric and the judiciary

Post by The Nickman »

Beejay wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:39 am This judiciary sheet shows the massive difference prior charges play in the weeks a player receives.
JWH would get absolutely slammed if he was facing Cotrics charge. Would be 1100 points (11weeks), and 825 with and early plea (8weeks).

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I mean, that all seems quite reasonable, really.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by -PJ- »

The Tigers bye.. :thumbsup
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Beejay »

Although now I think of it, he has 2 priors for the same offence as his dangerous contact, but probably doesn’t for dangerous throw. But anyway, you get the point. That 50% increase gets added for each prior, so the more you have the more you get slammed.


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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Sid »

The Rickman wrote:**** off with the Benji factor. **** that garbage really **** me.

We have a CNK, Wighton, Hodgson, Papalii, Whitehead, Bateman factor

Benji’s 18 wins in 20 games against Raiders is remarkable as disgusting as it is.. time for Raiders to make it a 18 from 21 record!
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Re: Cotric and the judiciary

Post by Seiffert82 »

Northern Raider wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:13 am
PigRickman wrote: July 15, 2019, 10:41 am Yeah, i dont want to hear **** about how the Raiders get treated by the MRC again :lol:

The club should enter the early plea on that right this second before the media get too into this and the reactionary NRL reconsider. 3 weeks for that is, IMO, incredibly soft.

But im pumped for us and im pumped for Nic.
He's been charged with the most serious grading for a Dangerous Throw. MRC basically saying that's as bad as they can be. I don't see that as "incredibly soft".

FTR I think the grading is right.
Yeah, it's the harshest penalty they can give with a standard grading. The fact he has discounts available to him is irrelevant to how bad people think the incident was. That's the system and IMO it's a good one.

Under the circumstances, 3 weeks is a fair outcome for that tackle. It wasn't good, but it wasn't a next-level malicious attack intended to injure Lafai.

It'll be interesting to see what the club does with that outcome on offer.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by papabear »

take the three weeks. We need to get him back asap.

He is not going to get a not guilty, he needed to not drive or let go or something but he just went on with it.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

The Rickman wrote:I dunno how you can argue it either, it's one of the worst spear tackle/dangerous throw/whatever the **** you want to call it I've seen in a long, long time. My gut feel was 4 to 6 weeks, so I'm absolutely stoked with 3!!
We could have a crack at the Choc/Finch defence.

1. Lafai tells the court that it was made to look worse, because he was trying to get a quick play the ball
2. Nick gets off
3. Lafai gets a nice holiday, care of the Raiders
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Re: Cotric and the judiciary

Post by Billy Walker »

The Rickman wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:40 am
Beejay wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:39 am This judiciary sheet shows the massive difference prior charges play in the weeks a player receives.
JWH would get absolutely slammed if he was facing Cotrics charge. Would be 1100 points (11weeks), and 825 with and early plea (8weeks).

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I mean, that all seems quite reasonable, really.
The only outrage I have looking at that is the JWH charge. The MRC has clearly not taken into consideration the infringement was committed against Josh McGuire. I believe the correct outcome would be to double JWH match payments!
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by -PJ- »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 15, 2019, 12:12 pm
The Rickman wrote:I dunno how you can argue it either, it's one of the worst spear tackle/dangerous throw/whatever the **** you want to call it I've seen in a long, long time. My gut feel was 4 to 6 weeks, so I'm absolutely stoked with 3!!
We could have a crack at the Choc/Finch defence.

1. Lafai tells the court that it was made to look worse, because he was trying to get a quick play the ball
2. Nick gets off
3. Lafai gets a nice holiday, care of the Raiders
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Billy Walker »

papabear wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:55 am take the three weeks. We need to get him back asap.

He is not going to get a not guilty, he needed to not drive or let go or something but he just went on with it.
Spot on! If you go back over the game day thread and look at some of the early numbers be thrown around three is a pretty good outcome.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Northern Raider »

Guilty plea is a given. They may contest the grading. Think they should just wear it though.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by bonehead »

Northern Raider wrote:Guilty plea is a given. They may contest the grading. Think they should just wear it though.
no loss to contest the grading - might as well do it
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by BJ »

Based on previous charges for dangerous throws and the fact that he didn’t have his hands between the players legs I thought grade 2 was consistent.

But considering they are cracking down on dangerous play, I will now change my mind and accept a Grade 3 as a fair and accurate charge.

I see multiple defender tackles where someone gets dumped on their head, worse than a 1 on 1 tackle that goes from excellent to bad in a matter of milliseconds.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Wiki Special »

I think 3 weeks is pretty fair. Those posters calling for 5 or more need to listen to Ricky and get out of the game, haha.
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Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Sid »

PigRickman wrote:Yeah, i dont want to hear **** about how the Raiders get treated by the MRC again :lol:

The club should enter the early plea on that right this second before the media get too into this and the reactionary NRL reconsider. 3 weeks for that is, IMO, incredibly soft.

But im pumped for us and im pumped for Nic.
I thought a grade 3 was the highest charge MRC could lump him with isn’t it? Or are there higher penalty levels within a grading? I thought it was Cotric’s clean record that saved him, I’m learning about MRC as we go here
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by The Nickman »

Wiki Special wrote: July 15, 2019, 1:18 pm I think 3 weeks is pretty fair. Those posters calling for 5 or more need to listen to Ricky and get out of the game, haha.
You obviously haven't read this thread... he's copped the maximum penalty and it's been reduced for his record. If JWH got the exact same charge it would be 8 weeks AFTER the guilty plea.

They've got this one spot-on, but the original charge IS 5 weeks.
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Re: Cotric and the judiciary

Post by Botman »

Sid wrote: July 15, 2019, 1:21 pm
PigRickman wrote:Yeah, i dont want to hear **** about how the Raiders get treated by the MRC again :lol:

The club should enter the early plea on that right this second before the media get too into this and the reactionary NRL reconsider. 3 weeks for that is, IMO, incredibly soft.

But im pumped for us and im pumped for Nic.
I thought a grade 3 was the highest charge MRC could lump him with isn’t it? Or are there higher penalty levels within a grading? I thought it was Cotric’s clean record that saved him, I’m learning about MRC as we go here
Yep, as said here:
PigRickman wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:00 am
Beejay wrote: July 15, 2019, 10:59 am He got the absolute highest penalty you can get without being referred straight to the judiciary.
Grade 3 is the highest with 500 points. He can get 25% reduction for early plea, which bring him to 375 points - 3 weeks and 75 carry over points.
Its' only his good record and zero priors that drops it into the 3 weeks range. Someone with similar previous offence would be getting 50% on top of the 500, so 750, and if they had carry over points of say 60 then they would be hitting 800 points and 8 weeks off.
If it's a non-similar offence the loading is 20%
He deserves the 3 weeks because he isn't a dirty player and has zero priors.
Pointless arguing a reduction to Grade 2 and risking the 25% discount for early plea. Best case 2 weeks, lose and it's 4.
Yeah, ok. That actually does make a bit of sense then
It's a 5 week charge, and if you've got history, 7. Which is the range most of us felt it landed.
And here:
PigRickman wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:15 am
Northern Raider wrote: July 15, 2019, 11:13 am He's been charged with the most serious grading for a Dangerous Throw. MRC basically saying that's as bad as they can be. I don't see that as "incredibly soft".

FTR I think the grading is right.

Yeah i think Beejay actually breaks that down quite well and the charge makes sense
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by woppadingo »

Do plead guilty and contest the grading down to a grade 2?

300 -75 = 225 - 21 for the send off = 204.
2 games with 4 carry over points?

Sounds like a plan
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Leeroy Jenkins »

woppadingo wrote: July 15, 2019, 2:25 pm Do plead guilty and contest the grading down to a grade 2?

300 -75 = 225 - 21 for the send off = 204.
2 games with 4 carry over points?

Sounds like a plan
I think they'll play it safe here and just take the extra game.

I seem to remember some funny situation with the judiciary where if you contest the grading it actually opens you up for them considering it as a higher grading/different charge. NRL might well word up the panel to say if they contest it, it turns into something completely different.

Three weeks out now isn't the worst situation for the club... we'll be there in September this year and having Nick a little fresher isn't a bad thing.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Northern Raider »

Leeroy Jenkins wrote: July 15, 2019, 2:37 pm
woppadingo wrote: July 15, 2019, 2:25 pm Do plead guilty and contest the grading down to a grade 2?

300 -75 = 225 - 21 for the send off = 204.
2 games with 4 carry over points?

Sounds like a plan
I think they'll play it safe here and just take the extra game.

I seem to remember some funny situation with the judiciary where if you contest the grading it actually opens you up for them considering it as a higher grading/different charge. NRL might well word up the panel to say if they contest it, it turns into something completely different.

Three weeks out now isn't the worst situation for the club... we'll be there in September this year and having Nick a little fresher isn't a bad thing.
True that if you contest the grading you open the door for them to change the charge in the wrong direction. In this instance it's the highest level of dangerous throw and 500 base points. There is no charge higher than that so its not like they can increase the ban.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by greeneyed »

I think the penalty for priors is way too harsh. The whole system encourages players not to challenge any charge. And we know there is huge inconsistency in the charges from the MRC. Remember the four recent cases of contact with the eyes?
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Lucky »

lol.... seifert82, you really dont like me do you.... calling me out on everything.... even taking the time to quote me on posts i made 3 years ago, wow, just wow.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Old School Green »

greeneyed wrote: July 15, 2019, 2:55 pm I think the penalty for priors is way too harsh. The whole system encourages players not to challenge any charge. And we know there is huge inconsistency in the charges from the MRC. Remember the four recent cases of contact with the eyes?
Agree. All the NRL’s bluster about protecting players is hollow given Moose Maguires ‘second gouge in a year’ fine he received vs Young’s suspension.
Two other things.
1. Good on Stuart for giving it to that journo. Barking up the wrong tree trying to say Stick doesn’t do enough for the game’s image. Anyone know he was? Bet he feels about a millimetre tall today and rightfully so.
2. Accept guilt and try for a downgrade. Worth a shot; aligns with Stick’s words about fighting it and might just save a week. If not, nothing lost nothing gained and just an extra little chip for us to fire up and carry for the rest of the year.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Bnr032 »

The other thing i would be worried about in contesting it,
Is whilst yes your saying 3 week early guilty plea v 5 week accept. is the cloud of carry over pts.
Sure he will potentially get loading next time. Which could be dire if its finals, and he gets a low charge, but the minimal pts, plus his loading = a suspension. 75 pts is almost guaranteed a guilty charge will equal a game off.

However if they fight the charge, and loose, 5 weeks now, but no carry over points? (so do you want him to sit 2 games soonish then potentially 1 do or die final?)
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Raider Azz »

Lucky wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:06 pm lol.... seifert82, you really dont like me do you.... calling me out on everything.... even taking the time to quote me on posts i made 3 years ago, wow, just wow.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by kona_dream »

Bnr032 wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:09 pm The other thing i would be worried about in contesting it,
Is whilst yes your saying 3 week early guilty plea v 5 week accept. is the cloud of carry over pts.
Sure he will potentially get loading next time. Which could be dire if its finals, and he gets a low charge, but the minimal pts, plus his loading = a suspension. 75 pts is almost guaranteed a guilty charge will equal a game off.

However if they fight the charge, and loose, 5 weeks now, but no carry over points? (so do you want him to sit 2 games soonish then potentially 1 do or die final?)
No if he fights it now and loses he is out for 4 weeks with 79 carry over points (he has had 21 points taken off for the send off).
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by The Nickman »

Lucky wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:06 pm lol.... seifert82, you really dont like me do you.... calling me out on everything.... even taking the time to quote me on posts i made 3 years ago, wow, just wow.
Ummm… what??
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Lucky »

The Rickman wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:23 pm
Lucky wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:06 pm lol.... seifert82, you really dont like me do you.... calling me out on everything.... even taking the time to quote me on posts i made 3 years ago, wow, just wow.
Ummm… what??
forget it. apparently he thinks this tackle is OK. i know i'd like to be dumped on my head risking a broken neck :thumbsup
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by The Nickman »

Lucky wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:26 pm
The Rickman wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:23 pm
Lucky wrote: July 15, 2019, 3:06 pm lol.... seifert82, you really dont like me do you.... calling me out on everything.... even taking the time to quote me on posts i made 3 years ago, wow, just wow.
Ummm… what??
forget it. apparently he thinks this tackle is OK. i know i'd like to be dumped on my head risking a broken neck :thumbsup
Wait... Seiff said that?? Seems out of character, he's usually pretty spot on.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by greeneyed »

@BrentFord26 on Twitter

@RaidersCanberra CEO Don Furner tells @TimShawTweets they are going through footage of similar tackles to Cotric's over the last two years. They'll also look at all angles and speak to their legal advice in Sydney before deciding whether they challenge Cotric's three week ban.

Looks like we're doing everything possible to contest at least the grading. They must have got an extension...
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: July 15, 2019, 2:55 pm I think the penalty for priors is way too harsh. The whole system encourages players not to challenge any charge. And we know there is huge inconsistency in the charges from the MRC.
I couldn't agree more
I dont believe that it is ethical to have a disciplinary system that incentivises players to never contest and take the early plea to stay on the field, and then absolutely drill them in later in their life for charges they took pleas on just to avoid the hassle.
If nothing else it's a PR disaster because the same charge/action, can produce between 3 weeks or as much as 10 weeks

That's too significant a difference.

I dont know how to solve the problem, but this system is terrible imo
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by GreenMachine »

Long time lurker...
I think the club should do everything it can to reduce the penalty and ensure Nick has no carry over points that can harm him later.
The tackle (while not great) was never a 'send off' incident.
Also, consider that the team had to play on with 12 men and risked losing 2 points in that match, whereas a player being rubbed out before the match, still leaves you with 13 v 13.
Anyway, what a season so far! I hope the boys continue to play like they did against the Dragqueens.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by kona_dream »

I just don't see how this is the worse possible dangerous throw. In my mind it was largely in 1 motion where the tackle got out of control. There was no stopping the motion of the player hand between the legs. The Dragon's player braces for the fall by extending his arm. There needs to be a level above this grading for the situation where 2 players lift with the higher tackler pinning his ball carriers arm against himself as to not be able to brace the fall. While the 2nd player lifts between the legs. This would be a far worse situation, but with Crotic's grading this would be the same ie grade 3. My view is that it is a grade 2 and this is what we should be requesting it be downgraded to.
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Re: Canberra Raiders centre Nick Cotric facing three to four weeks on the sideline

Post by The Nickman »

GreenMachine wrote: July 15, 2019, 4:09 pm Long time lurker...
I think the club should do everything it can to reduce the penalty and ensure Nick has no carry over points that can harm him later.
The tackle (while not great) was never a 'send off' incident.
Also, consider that the team had to play on with 12 men and risked losing 2 points in that match, whereas a player being rubbed out before the match, still leaves you with 13 v 13.
Anyway, what a season so far! I hope the boys continue to play like they did against the Dragqueens.
Don't worry, Mrs Cotric, I'm sure the club will do everything they can to lessen the suspension on your boy.
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