magoo wrote:If we are to be genuine contenders, then no excuses are acceptable. All this talk about 5 day turnaround needs to stop. It is what it is,just get on with it. Complaints or excuses won't change anything.
Look, I think most people are on board with not excusing losses from the team’s perspective.
But if the stat is truly 80-90% of teams on a five day turnaround lose and you’re analysing results - If you don’t consider that in your analysis you’re a numpty.
The team themselves should be looking at that stat and asking “What can we do different in our 5 day preparations to counter that statistic?” Covering your eyes and yelling “no excuses” is not the answer.
I read an article today on the roar that was an analysis of the 2019 draw. They were saying that for teams backing up from 5 day turn arounds won about 45% of the time. It was teams with 5 day turn arounds and significant travel that lost 90% of the time.
Really it should be possible to make a draw that eliminates the need for this at all.
We only have one more this season, against the warriors in NZ which stacks the odds against us for that but there will be many other factors at play by the time that rolls around.
Many years ago I made the observation (without the stats) that a short turnaround with travel was tough to overcome. I predicted a flat performance when we had such a turnaround, which the team duly delivered. I got howled down with the "no excuses" mantra.
By travel I'm not talking about a trip to Sydney. This is travelling to QLD or NZ. You effectively lose a full day in prep and the travel severely impacts your recovery.
The Melbourne teams in the AFL used to bleat about it all the time on the odd occasion they had to leave the city. This was without the short turnarounds either as most games were played on the weekend. Of course they would never acknowledge that Brisbane, Sydney and Perth teams had to do road trips on a regular basis.
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magoo wrote:If we are to be genuine contenders, then no excuses are acceptable. All this talk about 5 day turnaround needs to stop. It is what it is,just get on with it. Complaints or excuses won't change anything.
Look, I think most people are on board with not excusing losses from the team’s perspective.
But if the stat is truly 80-90% of teams on a five day turnaround lose and you’re analysing results - If you don’t consider that in your analysis you’re a numpty.
The team themselves should be looking at that stat and asking “What can we do different in our 5 day preparations to counter that statistic?” Covering your eyes and yelling “no excuses” is not the answer.
I read an article today on the roar that was an analysis of the 2019 draw. They were saying that for teams backing up from 5 day turn arounds won about 45% of the time. It was teams with 5 day turn arounds and significant travel that lost 90% of the time.
Really it should be possible to make a draw that eliminates the need for this at all.
We only have one more this season, against the warriors in NZ which stacks the odds against us for that but there will be many other factors at play by the time that rolls around.
It’s possible, but not for the NRL as they wish to favour Sydney clubs and match them as much as possible against each other.
magoo wrote:If we are to be genuine contenders, then no excuses are acceptable. All this talk about 5 day turnaround needs to stop. It is what it is,just get on with it. Complaints or excuses won't change anything.
Look, I think most people are on board with not excusing losses from the team’s perspective.
But if the stat is truly 80-90% of teams on a five day turnaround lose and you’re analysing results - If you don’t consider that in your analysis you’re a numpty.
The team themselves should be looking at that stat and asking “What can we do different in our 5 day preparations to counter that statistic?” Covering your eyes and yelling “no excuses” is not the answer.
I read an article today on the roar that was an analysis of the 2019 draw. They were saying that for teams backing up from 5 day turn arounds won about 45% of the time. It was teams with 5 day turn arounds and significant travel that lost 90% of the time.
Really it should be possible to make a draw that eliminates the need for this at all.
We only have one more this season, against the warriors in NZ which stacks the odds against us for that but there will be many other factors at play by the time that rolls around.
It’s possible, but not for the NRL as they wish to favour Sydney clubs and match them as much as possible against each other.
You don't like the cold, hard facts? The NRL does precisely this in the draw, and deliberately. They play the out of town teams up against each other twice and they play the Sydney teams up against each other twice.
But Canberra, until recently, is "part of Sydney", when it comes to deciding where finals matches are played!
Some of the NRL's policies have and still do, very deliberately favour Sydney teams.
greeneyed wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 12:05 am
It’s possible, but not for the NRL as they wish to favour Sydney clubs and match them as much as possible against each other.
You don't like the cold, hard facts? The NRL does precisely this in the draw, and deliberately. They play the out of town teams up against each other twice and they play the Sydney teams up against each other twice.
But Canberra, until recently, is "part of Sydney", when it comes to deciding where finals matches are played!
Some of the NRL's policies have and still do, very deliberately favour Sydney teams.
You're priceless, Ferg. Can't even enjoy the fact we're having our best season in twenty-odd years, too busy yelling at clouds.
To be fair, the way the draw is constructed (i.e. on an arbitrary basis), the NRL absolutely match up the Sydney teams to play each other twice each year. This maximises the "local derby" aspects of the comp and it helps to generate larger crowds of local supporters (not that Sydneysiders like to travel outside their local district because of the horrific traffic).
As a result, the out of Sydney teams (including the Raiders, Melbourne, Warriors and Cowboys etc) are generally playing each other twice per season. This clearly has an impact on preparation and recovery times.
It's just something a number of teams need to overcome - but there is no doubt the draw has some very clear biases and inconsistencies with the scheduling.
There's biases and inconsistencies with every facet of life! New Zealand has to travel internationally for every game, the Cowboys need to take four flights for all games except Brisbane, Brisbane has a city to itself, Canberra has an inhospitable climate in winter... blah blah blah
Nothing is ever truly equal, but the best you can do is show up ready to play every game, which as our team has shown this year is the only important factor regarding performance.
People should really just shut-up and stop whinging about biases and how unfair life is and just enjoy the fact we've finally got a very, very good rugby league team with the right attitude that seems to be able to still win despite short turnarounds, a biased draw, evil referees and the boogy man.
The Rickman wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 1:50 pm
There's biases and inconsistencies with every facet of life! New Zealand has to travel internationally for every game, the Cowboys need to take four flights for all games except Brisbane, Brisbane has a city to itself, Canberra has an inhospitable climate in winter... blah blah blah
Nothing is ever truly equal, but the best you can do is show up ready to play every game, which as our team has shown this year is the only important factor regarding performance.
People should really just shut-up and stop whinging about biases and how unfair life is and just enjoy the fact we've finally got a very, very good rugby league team with the right attitude that seems to be able to still win despite short turnarounds, a biased draw, evil referees and the boogy man.
I've had enough of your negativity.
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It is a forum. People get to say what they think, within reasonable bounds, subject to the forum guidelines. Why do some posters insist on telling others not to post their quite valid views? Or how to fan?
I dunno, just seems really sad to me to spend the majority of our best season in twenty years complaining heavily about factors completely out of the team's control.
I'm just so glad that Sticky, and by extension the team, no longer focus on junk like this anymore and seem to be solely focused on their own performances on the park. And to great effect as well.
The Rickman wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 3:14 pm
I dunno, just seems really sad to me to spend the majority of our best season in twenty years complaining heavily about factors completely out of the team's control.
I'm just so glad that Sticky, and by extension the team, no longer focus on junk like this anymore and seem to be solely focused on their own performances on the park. And to great effect as well.
And that's what they should do too. That's the team's job and it is the best thing for their performance.
The fans expressing their views don't get in the way of that at all.
greeneyed wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 3:12 pm
It is a forum. People get to say what they think, within reasonable bounds, subject to the forum guidelines. Why do some posters insist on telling others not to post their quite valid views? Or how to fan?
The Rickman wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 3:14 pm
I dunno, just seems really sad to me to spend the majority of our best season in twenty years complaining heavily about factors completely out of the team's control.
I'm just so glad that Sticky, and by extension the team, no longer focus on junk like this anymore and seem to be solely focused on their own performances on the park. And to great effect as well.
For mine, Rick still isn’t getting enough credit around these parts...
The Rickman wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 1:50 pm
There's biases and inconsistencies with every facet of life! New Zealand has to travel internationally for every game, the Cowboys need to take four flights for all games except Brisbane, Brisbane has a city to itself, Canberra has an inhospitable climate in winter... blah blah blah
Nothing is ever truly equal, but the best you can do is show up ready to play every game, which as our team has shown this year is the only important factor regarding performance.
People should really just shut-up and stop whinging about biases and how unfair life is and just enjoy the fact we've finally got a very, very good rugby league team with the right attitude that seems to be able to still win despite short turnarounds, a biased draw, evil referees and the boogy man.
Yeah, that's all valid. Many teams across the board have significant advantages and disadvantages. That's life.
I'm just agreeing with the fact that, given the schedule is arbitrarily put together, it inherently favours some teams over others with respect to travel time and recovery periods. It's an actual thing that some clubs need to deal with more than others.
greeneyed wrote:It is a forum. People get to say what they think, within reasonable bounds, subject to the forum guidelines. Why do some posters insist on telling others not to post their quite valid views? Or how to fan?
It seems indicative of western society today.
We're losing the ability to have a conversation, present two opposing opinions and reach an amicable conclusion.
Instead, it's one side yelling down the other implementing full use of insults, derogatory comments coupled with a huge sense of self grandeur
This comment is not strictly aimed at anyone on this forum
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
greeneyed wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 3:12 pm
It is a forum. People get to say what they think, within reasonable bounds, subject to the forum guidelines. Why do some posters insist on telling others not to post their quite valid views? Or how to fan?
Seiffert82 wrote:To be fair, the way the draw is constructed (i.e. on an arbitrary basis), the NRL absolutely match up the Sydney teams to play each other twice each year. This maximises the "local derby" aspects of the comp and it helps to generate larger crowds of local supporters (not that Sydneysiders like to travel outside their local district because of the horrific traffic).
As a result, the out of Sydney teams (including the Raiders, Melbourne, Warriors and Cowboys etc) are generally playing each other twice per season. This clearly has an impact on preparation and recovery times.
It's just something a number of teams need to overcome - but there is no doubt the draw has some very clear biases and inconsistencies with the scheduling.
Until you have a home and away draw someone is always getting screwed
And tbh there isn't enough free space in the sporting calendar for a 35 week season
I can't see why people can't complain about some of the obvious bias in certain parts of the game. A competition that prides itself on evenness should be constantly looking at ways to maintain or promote the things that make it great. Teams and fans of every club should start every season thinking they have a chance to win the comp. Every team should have the exact same FTA exposure and TPAs and it is completely within the competitions power to actually deliver that.
Seiffert82 wrote:To be fair, the way the draw is constructed (i.e. on an arbitrary basis), the NRL absolutely match up the Sydney teams to play each other twice each year. This maximises the "local derby" aspects of the comp and it helps to generate larger crowds of local supporters (not that Sydneysiders like to travel outside their local district because of the horrific traffic).
As a result, the out of Sydney teams (including the Raiders, Melbourne, Warriors and Cowboys etc) are generally playing each other twice per season. This clearly has an impact on preparation and recovery times.
It's just something a number of teams need to overcome - but there is no doubt the draw has some very clear biases and inconsistencies with the scheduling.
Until you have a home and away draw someone is always getting screwed
And tbh there isn't enough free space in the sporting calendar for a 35 week season
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Yep, that's entirely true too. So, unless the NRL splits itself into 2 Divisions/Conferences (like the NBA or NFL etc) and then structure the draw and finals series around that concept, we are always going to get a flawed draw where some teams only play each other once.
In a 16 team, 24 round comp you play 9 teams twice and 6 teams once. The NRL almost invariably choose to ensure that the 9 Sydney teams play each other twice each season - for obvious reasons - same as the Queensland teams always playing each other twice.
As a result, we typically play at least 3 or 4 of the Cowboys, Storm, Warriors, Broncos and Titans twice each year. It's more travel than most teams. It's just the way it is.
I have a lot more patience for that bias than I do the FTA imbalance.
To me that’s short sighted idiocy funneling fans into a handful of teams. Then if those teams have a crap year your ratings tank hard. A fair bit of pressure to make sure the favourites do well...
gangrenous wrote:I have a lot more patience for that bias than I do the FTA imbalance.
To me that’s short sighted idiocy funneling fans into a handful of teams. Then if those teams have a crap year your ratings tank hard. A fair bit of pressure to make sure the favourites do well...
Having a few sides playing 14/15 FTA games while a few others have 3/4 FTA games is ridiculous. Particularly when it's the same sides year after year. It's not fair at all.
Yeah, also FTA exposure is so clearly going to impact your TPAs, player exposure and rep exposure. It’s got a strong direct impact on your squad quality and ability to be a competitive team. Longer and more frequent travel is a much more surmountable obstacle to my mind.
gangrenous wrote: ↑June 27, 2019, 10:48 pm
Yeah, also FTA exposure is so clearly going to impact your TPAs, player exposure and rep exposure. It’s got a strong direct impact on your squad quality and ability to be a competitive team. Longer and more frequent travel is a much more surmountable obstacle to my mind.
Well The Rickman 's onto the blame game for that. It's the boogy man.
Well I just think it's so unfair the Cowboys are so far away. I feel like they should have to play their home games in Brisbane so the Raiders don't have to travel so far.
The fact that Melbourne have been top of the table consistently for years proves that there are much bigger factors than travel that impact teams.
The fact that we are top 4 at the moment has a lot more to do with things we can control like how much energy and commitment goes into our defence rather than things we can't control like which teams we play twice and who has a shorter turn around. Look at the donkeys, they almost always play teams with a shorter turn around and this year they suck!
The fact that Melbourne have been top of the table consistently for years proves that there are much bigger factors than travel that impact teams.
The fact that we are top 4 at the moment has a lot more to do with things we can control like how much energy and commitment goes into our defence rather than things we can't control like which teams we play twice and who has a shorter turn around. Look at the donkeys, they almost always play teams with a shorter turn around and this year they suck!
Exactly. My point exactly, pick. Nothing's ever truly even, if you worry about yourself and your own performance more than you worry about so-called inequalities (and this applies to all facets of life, not just sport), then you'll generally do better.
I'm just SO glad the coach and team is taking that approach this year too. It's paying dividends, just wish the fans would get on board too.
If coaches and players accept these things are outside their control and get on with focusing on the things they can control... well that's the best thing they can do for their psychology and team performance. I've been harping about that for some while... and this year, that's exactly what's happening.
The fans... and club administration... should be pointing out where the NRL has policies which don't provide a level playing field for their club. The responsibility of the club administration is to ensure that the team and club have the best possible opportunity to be successful on the field.
The fact that Melbourne have been top of the table consistently for years proves that there are much bigger factors than travel that impact teams.
The fact that we are top 4 at the moment has a lot more to do with things we can control like how much energy and commitment goes into our defence rather than things we can't control like which teams we play twice and who has a shorter turn around. Look at the donkeys, they almost always play teams with a shorter turn around and this year they suck!
By the way, great story from Tim Gore. I agree with it.
The Rickman wrote: ↑June 28, 2019, 12:34 pm
You've been harping on about a lot of things, pal. Should just be enjoying the footy instead.
I do that too. I have time for both.
That's the beauty of being retired, I suppose!
I only have time for focusing on one of either good or evil. So this season I've chosen to use my powers for good... by constantly belittling those who use their powers for evil.
gangrenous wrote: ↑June 28, 2019, 1:07 pm
And therein Rickman identifies how he reduced his contributions from interesting discussion to being nothing more than a punish this year
Pfffft… when have I ever partook in interesting discussion?? The fact you describe it as "reducing my contribution" is laughable in itself.
gangrenous wrote: ↑June 28, 2019, 1:07 pm
And therein Rickman identifies how he reduced his contributions from interesting discussion to being nothing more than a punish this year
Pfffft… when have I ever partook in interesting discussion?? The fact you describe it as "reducing my contribution" is laughable in itself.
Ahh, RICKnICK mAN, it's no wonder i am in complete thrall to you!
