2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
1
7%
Raiders 1-12
9
60%
Draw
0
No votes
Tigers 1-12
3
20%
Tigers 13+
2
13%
 
Total votes: 15

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Matt
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Matt »

Brew wrote: June 5, 2019, 7:56 am Would rather Oldfield than Bailey, he is solid but I think Oldfield is better.

Maybe Bailey is viewed as a long term prospect if Rapana doesn’t re-sign. Which is a chance cause he is asking for a lot of coin for a winger. You know me and Johnny Mac hanging out on Saturday Night.


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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by BadnMean »

Brew wrote: June 5, 2019, 7:56 am Would rather Oldfield than Bailey, he is solid but I think Oldfield is better.

Maybe Bailey is viewed as a long term prospect if Rapana doesn’t re-sign. Which is a chance cause he is asking for a lot of coin for a winger. You know me and Johnny Mac hanging out on Saturday Night.


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Sounds reasonable. Keeping Cotric, BJ and Croker is far more likely if we have rookie contracts for Bailey and the Klok in our back 5 (providing great value btw). Oldie can still hang around as cover or in case Simonnon goes wobbly.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by BadnMean »

greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by luke »

BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Cranky Old Man »

luke wrote: June 5, 2019, 2:53 pm
BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
Any rule changes like that will only come after pressure from TV rights holders/bidders. So never, because punters love big collisions, and will continue to do so unless sometime there is a particularly gruesome death/near death to change their mind. Think Paulo running over that guy from Manly, everybody loved it including me. Now imagine it where the guy suffers a skull fracture and blood flows from his ears on screen and dies from brain damage.
I have seen that outcome in a non sporting context, it would not make very exciting TV viewing. I believe the wearing of headgear will be made compulsory before changes to defensive lines are considered.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by luke »

Cranky Old Man wrote: June 5, 2019, 3:05 pm
luke wrote: June 5, 2019, 2:53 pm
BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
Any rule changes like that will only come after pressure from TV rights holders/bidders. So never, because punters love big collisions, and will continue to do so unless sometime there is a particularly gruesome death/near death to change their mind. Think Paulo running over that guy from Manly, everybody loved it including me. Now imagine it where the guy suffers a skull fracture and blood flows from his ears on screen and dies from brain damage.
I have seen that outcome in a non sporting context, it would not make very exciting TV viewing. I believe the wearing of headgear will be made compulsory before changes to defensive lines are considered.
It could come from an incident like that or it could come from the accumulation of evidence about head/impact injuries
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Begbie »

Cranky Old Man wrote: June 5, 2019, 3:05 pm
luke wrote: June 5, 2019, 2:53 pm
BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
Now imagine it where the guy suffers a skull fracture and blood flows from his ears on screen and dies from brain damage.
Sounds fantastic!
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by edwahu »

luke wrote: June 5, 2019, 2:53 pm
BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
The thing with the 5m rule is the attack also usually stood at least 5m back. I think the collisions wouldn't be much less.

I hope it goes back though as I reckon the game will be better for it.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by BadnMean »

edwahu wrote: June 5, 2019, 6:29 pm
luke wrote: June 5, 2019, 2:53 pm
BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
The thing with the 5m rule is the attack also usually stood at least 5m back. I think the collisions wouldn't be much less.

I hope it goes back though as I reckon the game will be better for it.
I really enjoy rewatching any old school Raiders games I can find on youtube. There was a bit more offload, abut more ball shifting, a lot less dummy half running and a lot more chip-chase and grubbing through. And yes, you can watch the Raiders set a backline 20m deep to create some room for Mal to work in or Chicka to cut an angle through. Glorious.

But the size and speed and fitness of the players these days means you could never go back and recreate those days.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Begbie »

BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 7:50 pm
edwahu wrote: June 5, 2019, 6:29 pm
luke wrote: June 5, 2019, 2:53 pm
BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
The thing with the 5m rule is the attack also usually stood at least 5m back. I think the collisions wouldn't be much less.

I hope it goes back though as I reckon the game will be better for it.
I really enjoy rewatching any old school Raiders games I can find on youtube. There was a bit more offload, abut more ball shifting, a lot less dummy half running and a lot more chip-chase and grubbing through. And yes, you can watch the Raiders set a backline 20m deep to create some room for Mal to work in or Chicka to cut an angle through. Glorious.

But the size and speed and fitness of the players these days means you could never go back and recreate those days.
Yeah anything pre 94 is a completely different sport. Great to watch, but a different sport. Do you think Chicka would have got a start in first grade in this day and age?
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by edwahu »

There wasn't actually a huge shift until about 98/99 when Anderson brought in the flat attack. Then you had the super fast ruck era until the Tigers won the premiership which was somehow a big problem and since then it's been very much wrestle dominated and a purely running game.

I think there at least some good signs a bit more skill is coming back into it with things like the smaller locks and the strip rule.
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Post by bonehead »

Cranky Old Man wrote:
luke wrote: June 5, 2019, 2:53 pm
BadnMean wrote: June 5, 2019, 12:10 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 4, 2019, 9:32 pm When they had the mid week cup, it happened regularly.
Pretty different game back then- only a 5m rule to get back to, 85-100kg forwards and 75-80kg wingers without all the weights work smashing into collisions.
would not surprise me if the game went back to 5m rule one day (for safety reasons)
Any rule changes like that will only come after pressure from TV rights holders/bidders. So never, because punters love big collisions, and will continue to do so unless sometime there is a particularly gruesome death/near death to change their mind. Think Paulo running over that guy from Manly, everybody loved it including me. Now imagine it where the guy suffers a skull fracture and blood flows from his ears on screen and dies from brain damage.
I have seen that outcome in a non sporting context, it would not make very exciting TV viewing. I believe the wearing of headgear will be made compulsory before changes to defensive lines are considered.
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Post by Dusty »

Cotric highly unlikely for mine


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2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
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Post by LastRaider »

I think Papa will make a point of backing up. He will be there


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Post by Begbie »

Dusty wrote: June 5, 2019, 10:16 pm Cotric highly unlikely for mine


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No chance.
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Post by Danaman137 »

Not worth risking Cotric. Adrenaline will have gotten him through that game. He’ll be sore in the morning. Kris/oldfield in.

Wighton will want to get back in green and get a good performance in to forget a less than brilliant debut.

Papa was great tonight, he’ll back up and back up well.


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Post by Begbie »

good point Dan, Wighton should come up Diamond on Friday night. Give Cotric a pass.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by BadnMean »

Begbie wrote: June 5, 2019, 7:55 pm

Yeah anything pre 94 is a completely different sport. Great to watch, but a different sport. Do you think Chicka would have got a start in first grade in this day and age?
I have no doubt a lot of clubs/scouts would have overlooked him. But as soon as someone gave him a go...

But Thurston played in this era.

Preston Campbell.

And Chicka tackled like Kurt Baptiste compared to those two- I believe there's pretty clear evidence of a GF defining try coming from a Chicka hit and drive under the ribs- just to document one on Youtube among dozens the fans remember otherwise.

Different position but the cold hard facts of Chicka's kick return metres would have put any other winger in the shade.

Those first dummy half runs... I honestly don't know. He always beat them then, why wouldn't he beat them now?

It's arguable the wingers game has changed more than any others bar/= to the FB since the late 80s. I'd argue the FB shift began (but continued) in late 80s and the Winger shift in the early 90s with the Wiki's and Hopoates. (Grothe etc, sure but did every club stat to follow?).

So I'm not sure he'd get a start. But if he did- he'd kill it. I've been at Bruce for 30 years on and off now (given travel) and no-one comes close to the feel Chicka gave the crowd. I'd back him.

It's completely counter to my "Oldfield rucks out well" stance. But Chicka had better feet than the Milf, quick as lightning (even when he was 40 on the Youtube vids- sold to the Raiders because he was too old! Ha!) and instincts you just can't teach.

How would you use stats to compar; Matt Wood, v good winger, 2 GF tries, made good metres from pace...

To Chicka, atg winger, 2 GF tries, made good metres from pace, ducking, diving, dipping, dodging, not even his shoes could keep up ;) Was way too small for the game even then (Wishart as a winger: Jesus wept) but no one ever overpowered him.

Rapana at his best would give Chicka a run for his money on that right wing in the modern game. But I'd still take Chicka on his favoured left wing over anyone else I've seen since...
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Post by edwahu »

Chicka was 72kg. I'd think modern training could put 10kgs on that, but it's probably a bit light on. Which is a shame.

We do have a few old stats for these players though, but only at Origin level. Chicka averaged 6+ tackle breaks a game so maybe he would manage after all.

http://www.stateoforiginstats.foxsports ... statistics

Interesting to look at some of the middle forwards during that era and the higher workrate they had under 5 meters and the lower interchange. Sam Backo for example averaged 70+ minutes, 20 runs and 150 meters a game.
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Post by Begbie »

Paul Hauff was another. He was about 7 foot and weighed about 70kg, I know he go found out with the grubber, but surely today he wouldnt have lasted one carry back. He would have been snapped and driven back 30 metres on his first carry - career over with a net metres gained of -30. If he was still alive to read stats. Its sad really, those body shapes and characters made it a great game to watch.
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Post by The Nickman »

Chicka Ferguson would’ve made it in any era because that’s what great players do. In this day and age his natural ability would be honed with being a fulltime professional and he’d still be amazing


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Post by Begbie »

edwahu wrote: June 6, 2019, 7:21 am Chicka was 72kg. I'd think modern training could put 10kgs on that, but it's probably a bit light on. Which is a shame.

We do have a few old stats for these players though, but only at Origin level. Chicka averaged 6+ tackle breaks a game so maybe he would manage after all.

http://www.stateoforiginstats.foxsports ... statistics

Interesting to look at some of the middle forwards during that era and the higher workrate they had under 5 meters and the lower interchange. Sam Backo for example averaged 70+ minutes, 20 runs and 150 meters a game.
Chicka was actually a great one on one defender - often overlooked because of his attacking brilliance.
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Post by Begbie »

Wighton will be feeling depressed this morning. Hopefully those around him support him. Sadly, he is a confidence player and sthis will knock him around.Therefore,needs to jump straight back on the horse for this Friday. Stuart is good at this kind of stuff, he will have right words for him.
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Post by Crusader »

Would be happy if papa and wighton backup for this, I think Nic could back up but will get a rest, really not fair picking on Jack for that pass, if it lands he would be called a hero, the whole NSW team played terrible in the 2nd half, they put him on with no momentum, I felt so bad for him, terrible coaching by fittler, Jack came on and had to try anything. Nic got caught out because Morris was so far in, if you watch the first half Nic was only marking the wing and had confidence in morris, 2nd half the whole team crumbled.

I really hope Jack has a big game on Friday if he backs up, I really want this Win

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Post by Begbie »

Crusader wrote: June 6, 2019, 8:27 am Would be happy if papa and wighton backup for this, I think Nic could back up but will get a rest, really not fair picking on Jack for that pass, if it lands he would be called a hero, the whole NSW team played terrible in the 2nd half, they put him on with no momentum, I felt so bad for him, terrible coaching by fittler, Jack came on and had to try anything. Nic got caught out because Morris was so far in, if you watch the first half Nic was only marking the wing and had confidence in morris, 2nd half the whole team crumbled.

I really hope Jack has a big game on Friday if he backs up, I really want this Win

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I can't see why he wouldn't, he only played 20 odd minutes. I agree with your assessment of Fitler's handling of Jack, but in the end that stuff up was completley on Jack himself. Hopefully he bounces back on Friday to lead us to a stong victory. We really need to assualt them earlyy with everything we have, because surely we will fade in the second half and need to hold on.
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Post by Crusader »

Yep well said, Tigers are hot and cold, they can score 4 tries in 7 mins like did against Panthers or they can.........well Bulldogs beat them well.



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Post by The Nickman »

Begbie wrote:Wighton will be feeling depressed this morning. Hopefully those around him support him. Sadly, he is a confidence player and sthis will knock him around.Therefore,needs to jump straight back on the horse for this Friday. Stuart is good at this kind of stuff, he will have right words for him.
What’s a shame for Jack is that when he’s learning he makes mistakes, and big ones like last night. He did the same when he started at fullback, did the same when he started in the halves and repeated it last night in his first game of Origin

But what’s also true, is absolutely everything he attempts he eventually masters. If NSW persist with them, and he gets used to Origin football, he could eventually be their major strike weapon and one of the best players on the field

Unfortunately, we all know NSW will drop him, because that’s what they do best hahaha


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Post by Begbie »

To Fitler's credit he has said the right words and 100% backed Jack from what I've heard. We'll see when the team lists are released for origin 2. Nick is right though, if history repeats he will be on the scrap heap.
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Post by Sid »

It's pretty clear that 2 players were there holding a spot for the injured Keary and T. Trbojevic
I imagine 1 of those players is Cody Walker / Jack Wighton for Keary and I guess the other one is Josh Morris / Nick Cotric for T Trbojevic.

EDIT: Have I posted this in the wrong thread?
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Post by The Nickman »

Jack will get dropped, NSW will change their halves (both of them hopefully), history will repeat and Queensland will win in Perth

And NSW fans will woe this next generation of talent coming through for Queensland “oh how can we ever compete with the likes of Ponga, Munster, DCE, Gagai and Papalii?”


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Post by Begbie »

The Rickman wrote: June 6, 2019, 9:11 am Jack will get dropped, NSW will change their halves (both of them hopefully), history will repeat and Queensland will win in Perth

And NSW fans will woe this next generation of talent coming through for Queensland “oh how can we ever compete with the likes of Ponga, Munster, DCE, Gagai and Papalii?”


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Sad but true. I know you have had success in your predictions with recent political elections but I sincerely hope your crystal balling success ends here. Fitler is actually saying some good stuff after last night. I was actually his biggest critic as I couldnt understand him when he spoke for his first 5 years after retiring. However, he seems to have gone through some sort of transition and is now semi- articulate and seems to make good decisions while backing his players.We'll soon see after game 2.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Rick »

The Rickman wrote:Jack will get dropped, NSW will change their halves (both of them hopefully), history will repeat and Queensland will win in Perth

And NSW fans will woe this next generation of talent coming through for Queensland “oh how can we ever compete with the likes of Ponga, Munster, DCE, Gagai and Papalii?”


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GE? I really need to keep up with the names thread.


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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Begbie »

Threads divert, always have, always will. All discussion is good.
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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by dubby »

Gee it'd be funny if nsw won the series

Hard to see it happening though. We dearly need some good halves that are in good form.

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Re: 2019 Rd 13 V Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

Post by Begbie »

dubby wrote: June 6, 2019, 10:29 am Gee it'd be funny if nsw won the series

Hard to see it happening though. We dearly need some good halves that are in good form.

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most def!
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