Jarrod Croker

edwahu · Post by **edwahu** » June 30, 2019, 2:57 pm

PigRickman wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:56 pm Cotric is a better winger than he is centre, and Croker is a better player than Simonsonn

The drums aren’t beating at all except in the heads of a select few cowards.
The equation is simple - CNK, Cotric, Croker, Beej, Rapana (or simo if rapana leaves)

That’ll be the backline next year assuming Beej is back, as it should be, and y’all best just get used to it.

If we pick this side short odds that Cotric is gone in 2021. Unless BJ or Crocker goes by then instead.

gerg · Post by **gerg** » June 30, 2019, 3:00 pm

edwahu wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:54 pm
Billy Walker wrote:It’s not just one or two people calling time on him - the drums are beating louder. Dismiss it all you like but where there’s smoke there’s fire.
So with Sezer almost likely to be moved on next year and if you had your way, Croker gone too. Who is kicking goals?

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Why Sam Williams of course.

But isn't the pommy Williams coming to play halfback?

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edwahu · Post by **edwahu** » June 30, 2019, 3:01 pm

gergreg wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 3:00 pm
edwahu wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:54 pm
Billy Walker wrote:It’s not just one or two people calling time on him - the drums are beating louder. Dismiss it all you like but where there’s smoke there’s fire.
So with Sezer almost likely to be moved on next year and if you had your way, Croker gone too. Who is kicking goals?

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Why Sam Williams of course.
But isn't the pommy Williams coming to play halfback?

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I wasn't serious.

We'd have to find a kicker I guess. No idea if any of the younger players have kicked.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 3:02 pm

edwahu wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:57 pm
PigRickman wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:56 pm Cotric is a better winger than he is centre, and Croker is a better player than Simonsonn

The drums aren’t beating at all except in the heads of a select few cowards.
The equation is simple - CNK, Cotric, Croker, Beej, Rapana (or simo if rapana leaves)

That’ll be the backline next year assuming Beej is back, as it should be, and y’all best just get used to it.
If we pick this side short odds that Cotric is gone in 2021. Unless BJ or Crocker goes by then instead.

On what basis?
Cotric has said publicly he’s happy on the wing, and as well he should be, he’s a SOO player there.
He’s a local kid and he’ll be a priority for the team. I don’t see reason to think we’ll risk losing him.

Granted i was concerned about this a few years ago when he was coming up, given his natural position was centre, but i think the fact he's established himself as one of the elite wingers in the game helps ease those concerns and, as said, he has publicly said he's fine playing wing. (I guess being recognised as one of the best in the game, and big chance for NSW/Aust rep bonus money there helps)

Roger Kenworthy · Post by **Roger Kenworthy** » June 30, 2019, 3:14 pm

Rickmando wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:45 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:36 pm
Rickmando wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:24 pm
greeneyed wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:00 pm Don't feed the trolls everyone...
Having a differing opinion to the majority doesn’t make me a troll.

That’s a very weak and biased statement from a moderator. Do you not encourage two sides of a debate on the GH?
Comrade Croker is beyond reproach.
Not just that, but the consistent aggressive and offensive language, and the insults from the collective in this discussion have been conveniently overlooked... but because I’m taking an unpopular position on a topic, I’m a troll?

Croker has had a couple of shockers with games on the line this season. After 245 games you'd hope a player whose game is based on consistency would be helping the team put games away.

We then have some who want to move Rapana on due to his age, despite there only being a year between him and Croker. You couldn't convince me in any way that Croker has performed better than Rapana over the last two and a half seasons.

The old argument is name 8 better centres. Another argument is ask around other NRL fans and see if they'd want Croker at their club on the assumed 6-700k he is on. I'm guessing not many although I'm sure I'll be corrected.

gerg · Post by **gerg** » June 30, 2019, 3:15 pm

edwahu wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 3:00 pm
edwahu wrote:
gergreg wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:54 pm
Billy Walker wrote:It’s not just one or two people calling time on him - the drums are beating louder. Dismiss it all you like but where there’s smoke there’s fire.
So with Sezer almost likely to be moved on next year and if you had your way, Croker gone too. Who is kicking goals?

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Why Sam Williams of course.
But isn't the pommy Williams coming to play halfback?

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I wasn't serious.

We'd have to find a kicker I guess. No idea if any of the younger players have kicked.

I thought you might be joking but it's a good discussion to have if maybe Billy or one of the other negos wants to actually engage in a little logical discussion around here.

It's fine to pick out a player here or there that you want to sack but at least have a think about the bigger picture. We are a club that has struggled to attract decent to good players for a long time - without paying significant overs. And some want to sack the club captain - leading pointscorer for the club and if all goes to plan the game as a whole. A bloke who wants to be here, isn't a mercenary always sniffing around for a bigger payday. Isn't close to the best centre in the game, but is far from the worst. Is relatively robust injury wise. Is well respected in the club, community and NRL as a whole. While our other strike centre has a potential career ending injury.

I congratulate afghj for at least attempting to name some centres that are better than Croker. I don't agree with the list. But let's just play along for arguments sake. We sack Croker this year .... like some want... how many from that list are off contract? How many can we afford? And lastly, coming around to my first point (with Sezer possibly leaving) how many kick goals?

Over to you boys.

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edwahu · Post by **edwahu** » June 30, 2019, 3:16 pm

PigRickman wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 3:02 pm On what basis?
Cotric has said publicly he’s happy on the wing, and as well he should be, he’s a SOO player there.
He’s a local kid and he’ll be a priority for the team. I don’t see reason to think we’ll risk losing him.

Plenty view his future in the centers and will offer him a better deal as a center than a winger.

Still, even if he is happy on the wing he is going to cost a lot to keep and I don't see us continuing to pay big money for three outside backs. They are all off contract and I expect someone will go.

So that side could make sense for a year but it seems likely it wouldn't be the side for 2021.

I may be wrong though and Cotric really does prefer the wing and BJ or Croker take pay cuts.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 3:27 pm

I dont think centres get more or better money on the open market than wingers these days
Most teams, and rightly so, seem to value their wingers more than centres now because of the difference they can make as kick returns and play effectively as early set middle forwards.

There isnt a club who's going to pay him more to be a centre than what we'll pay to keep him as a SOO level winger... and this is all a bit premature, given BJ is off right now with a serious neck injury. We have no idea what sort of player he'll be when he comes back.
James Tamou was never the same after his neck injury.

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 3:28 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 2:45 pm It’s not just one or two people calling time on him - the drums are beating louder. Dismiss it all you like but where there’s smoke there’s fire.

Drums are beating = half a dozen random people on the internet.

Where there's smoke there's hot air.

-TW- · Post by **-TW-** » June 30, 2019, 3:33 pm

Billy Walker wrote:It’s not just one or two people calling time on him - the drums are beating louder. Dismiss it all you like but where there’s smoke there’s fire.

Highly doubt the thought has even remotely crossed sticky or dfj's mind.. but keep up the fight, I guess

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Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 3:39 pm

Stuart, who completely controls his roster, has made it abundantly clear how important Croker is for him and for this team. This thread is going to exist with the "drums beating" and all the "smoke" for at least 3 more years

Billy Walker · Post by **Billy Walker** » June 30, 2019, 4:04 pm

If Crokes rolls out for three more years he will set a record for having played in the most number of losing games for the Raiders that will never be beaten, and we best scramble for the record books to see if he might actually have a shot at retiring having played in more losing first grade NRL games than anyone who has ever played the game.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 4:19 pm

Paul Gallen currently holds that record and absolutely no one gives a **** about it, Billy

FWIW, he's 40 losses behind Gallen. No idea if there is anyone between him and Gal

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 4:20 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:04 pm If Crokes rolls out for three more years he will set a record for having played in the most number of losing games for the Raiders that will never be beaten, and we best scramble for the record books to see if he might actually have a shot at retiring having played in more losing first grade NRL games than anyone who has ever played the game.

Quite a useless stat for assessing individual performance in a team sport but Billy is going to milk it for all he can.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 4:23 pm

some quick research tells me Gal took the mantle from Scott Prince who had 166.
Steve Menzies has 149...

Those guys are all bums though, eh Billy?

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 4:25 pm

I've not checked the stats but reckon Cam Smith would hold the record for most losing games for the Storm.

Billy Walker · Post by **Billy Walker** » June 30, 2019, 4:29 pm

PigRickman wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:23 pm some quick research tells me Gal took the mantle from Scott Prince who had 166.
Steve Menzies has 149...

Those guys are all bums though, eh Billy?

No all those players have played the game at the highest level representing their respective states on the biggest stage of all. Your boi Crokes is the odd one out there - you’re kind of making a case he will retire one of the most average players on record. It seems he’s already holds the record as the NRL player to have played in the most losing games who hasn’t been selected for higher honours.... ouch

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 4:31 pm

ET, 138 loses

What a LOSER

LastRaider · Post by **LastRaider** » June 30, 2019, 4:31 pm

Next year choices are going to need to be made by Ricky. He either keeps Croker on and then he has to decide to either keep BJ or Cotric.

The debate should be which centre combination do we want from 2020 onwards.

(Anyone who thinks Cotric will do another year on the wing is dreaming... he will seek a release and be snapped up by another club)

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Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 4:31 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:29 pm
PigRickman wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:23 pm some quick research tells me Gal took the mantle from Scott Prince who had 166.
Steve Menzies has 149...

Those guys are all bums though, eh Billy?
No all those players have played the game at the highest level representing their respective states on the biggest stage of all. Your boi Crokes is the odd one out there - you’re kind of making a case he will retire one of the most average players on record. It seems he’s already holds the record as the NRL player to have played in the most losing games who hasn’t been selected for higher honours.... ouch

So the stat doesn't count of they play rep footy?

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 4:32 pm

Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:25 pm I've not checked the stats but reckon Cam Smith would hold the record for most losing games for the Storm.

He's got more losses than Matt Geyer who i thought would hold the record. Ol Cam Smith, the Storm's greatest loser!

Billy Walker · Post by **Billy Walker** » June 30, 2019, 4:35 pm

Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:25 pm I've not checked the stats but reckon Cam Smith would hold the record for most losing games for the Storm.

Smith has a 28% loss record. Croker loses more than half the time he takes the field. I don’t think we should compare Crokes to an actual elite footballer....

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 4:38 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:35 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:25 pm I've not checked the stats but reckon Cam Smith would hold the record for most losing games for the Storm.
Smith has a 28% loss record. Croker loses more than half the time he takes the field. I don’t think we should compare Crokes to an actual elite footballer....

I thought you were talking about total losses. Now it's win %. Some consistency please.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 4:38 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:35 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:25 pm I've not checked the stats but reckon Cam Smith would hold the record for most losing games for the Storm.
Smith has a 28% loss record. Croker loses more than half the time he takes the field. I don’t think we should compare Crokes to an actual elite footballer....

Billy, this is about loses. Stick to the program, my boy

It seems like no one in storm history has lost more than Cam Smith! Incredible scenes.
No one in RL history has lost more than Paul Gallen (who also has a >50% win ratio!)

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 4:40 pm

Croker has lost more games than any other player in white headgear. Confident that record will never be broken.

Billy Walker · Post by **Billy Walker** » June 30, 2019, 4:42 pm

Gal, Cam Smith, Croker - reminds me of that old Sesame Street song... “One of these things is not like the other ones, one of these things is not quite the same...”.

Who can pick the odd one out here boys and girls?

Billy Walker · Post by **Billy Walker** » June 30, 2019, 4:44 pm

Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:40 pm Croker has lost more games than any other player in white headgear. Confident that record will never be broken.

Raiders haven’t won a Premiership since 94’ - not confident that will change with Crokes’ defence in our centres!

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 4:49 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:44 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:40 pm Croker has lost more games than any other player in white headgear. Confident that record will never be broken.
Raiders haven’t won a Premiership since 94’ - not confident that will change with Crokes’ defence in our centres!

What a special case. Your mind works in curious ways.

Billy Walker · Post by **Billy Walker** » June 30, 2019, 4:55 pm

Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:49 pm
Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:44 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:40 pm Croker has lost more games than any other player in white headgear. Confident that record will never be broken.
Raiders haven’t won a Premiership since 94’ - not confident that will change with Crokes’ defence in our centres!
What a special case. Your mind works in curious ways.

Do you believe Croker will play in a first grade premiership winning raiders team? Serious question.

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 4:59 pm

LastRaider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:31 pm
(Anyone who thinks Cotric will do another year on the wing is dreaming... he will seek a release and be snapped up by another club)

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Again, based on what?
He’s said publicly he’s happy on the wing
He is a rep player at that position
He is a local kid playing near family
The raiders shouldn’t have any problems cap wise matching any deal he’s offered

So the idea that he’ll just up and leave all of that for a shot at centre (which he’ll have here long term anyways haha) is totally and completely without a base

Botman · Post by **Botman** » June 30, 2019, 5:00 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:55 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:49 pm
Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:44 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:40 pm Croker has lost more games than any other player in white headgear. Confident that record will never be broken.
Raiders haven’t won a Premiership since 94’ - not confident that will change with Crokes’ defence in our centres!
What a special case. Your mind works in curious ways.
Do you believe Croker will play in a first grade premiership winning raiders team? Serious question.

What’s that got to do with anything?
You don’t just get awarded a premiership haha
You have to win them with your 29 other squad mates and a coaching staff

Or are you saying anyone who doesn’t win a premiership is not a good footballer?

gerg · Post by **gerg** » June 30, 2019, 5:04 pm

Well I'm on-board.
Step 1... Sack Croker
Step 2... RAIDERS premiership
Step 3... profit

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Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 5:07 pm

Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:55 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:49 pm
Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:44 pm
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:40 pm Croker has lost more games than any other player in white headgear. Confident that record will never be broken.
Raiders haven’t won a Premiership since 94’ - not confident that will change with Crokes’ defence in our centres!
What a special case. Your mind works in curious ways.
Do you believe Croker will play in a first grade premiership winning raiders team? Serious question.

Yes

Northern Raider · Post by **Northern Raider** » June 30, 2019, 5:10 pm

PigRickman wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:59 pm
LastRaider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:31 pm
(Anyone who thinks Cotric will do another year on the wing is dreaming... he will seek a release and be snapped up by another club)

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Again, based on what?
He’s said publicly he’s happy on the wing
He is a rep player at that position
He is a local kid playing near family
The raiders shouldn’t have any problems cap wise matching any deal he’s offered

So the idea that he’ll just up and leave all of that for a shot at centre (which he’ll have here long term anyways haha) is totally and completely without a base

Pig, this is the same bloke that told us Papalii was going to leave if we made him play in the middle. Fact is he's got no idea what Cotric wants to do.

gerg · Post by **gerg** » June 30, 2019, 5:10 pm

Billy Walker wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 30, 2019, 4:25 pm I've not checked the stats but reckon Cam Smith would hold the record for most losing games for the Storm.
Smith has a 28% loss record. Croker loses more than half the time he takes the field. I don’t think we should compare Crokes to an actual elite footballer....

Gallen has a far superior goal kicking percentage than Croker. We should sign him up to replace our current goal kicker.

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