I've never said that. I said he had a bad few weeks around Rounds 9 - 11 and if it continues he should be under pressure to retain his spot. He has bounced back so happy for him to keep his spot. My only gripe with him getting the captaincy was I don't think he is quite good enough to be an automatic selection whenever fit. I have him in the middle of the pack of centres across the NRL, it's just funny to me that some won't acknowledge the slightest weakness in his game defensively.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 10:55 amGood, that's great, there is one dude doing that and half a dozen of you idiots suggesting Croker isnt even a FG quality centre. The guy saying Croker is elite is much closer to the truth than you areRoger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 8:30 amToo lazy to go back but there was talk of shifting Latrell to right centre for Game 1 to accommodate Croker at left centre. If that doesn't label him world class then I don't know what does.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 16, 2019, 8:03 pmWho suggested he was some world beating centre?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 16, 2019, 7:17 pm I guess Jack being picked at centre for NSW blows away the conspiracy theory there is some sort of bias against the Raiders keeping Croker out of Origin.
The state selectors pulled a guy out of Origin retirement ahead of him for game 1 then picks his team mate out of position for game 2.
Hmmmm do you think just maybe Croker isn’t the world beating centre many keep suggesting he is....
Genuinely, who? Find me the quote.
Jarrod Croker
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Re: Jarrod Croker
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Sterling put Croker and Funicane in the same basket over the weekend, as 2 of the most unlucky non Blues in recent years. You can tick 1 more off that list. I think Croker regularly comes up in discussions, however, he is a left sided player, and that has always been the stronger side talent wise. If you believe the hype, they nearly moved Latrell to play him, but went with the stop gap in Morris instead.
To retain Jack, Fittler has shoe horned him into the centre role. I suspect Jack will play left side and Turbo (incumbent player - bar injury) right, despite the number on their backs. While it costs Croker a spot, Im happy for Jack.
To retain Jack, Fittler has shoe horned him into the centre role. I suspect Jack will play left side and Turbo (incumbent player - bar injury) right, despite the number on their backs. While it costs Croker a spot, Im happy for Jack.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
People acknowledge his weaknesses. Every player has them. The difference in opinion is the vast majority of us don't believe Croker's weaknesses are justification to sack him (which was the original topic here) or drop him to NSW Cup. A roster change to remove the particular weaknesses of one player will only introduce other weaknesses from the new player.Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 11:42 amI've never said that. I said he had a bad few weeks around Rounds 9 - 11 and if it continues he should be under pressure to retain his spot. He has bounced back so happy for him to keep his spot. My only gripe with him getting the captaincy was I don't think he is quite good enough to be an automatic selection whenever fit. I have him in the middle of the pack of centres across the NRL, it's just funny to me that some won't acknowledge the slightest weakness in his game defensively.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 10:55 amGood, that's great, there is one dude doing that and half a dozen of you idiots suggesting Croker isnt even a FG quality centre. The guy saying Croker is elite is much closer to the truth than you areRoger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 8:30 amToo lazy to go back but there was talk of shifting Latrell to right centre for Game 1 to accommodate Croker at left centre. If that doesn't label him world class then I don't know what does.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 16, 2019, 8:03 pmWho suggested he was some world beating centre?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 16, 2019, 7:17 pm I guess Jack being picked at centre for NSW blows away the conspiracy theory there is some sort of bias against the Raiders keeping Croker out of Origin.
The state selectors pulled a guy out of Origin retirement ahead of him for game 1 then picks his team mate out of position for game 2.
Hmmmm do you think just maybe Croker isn’t the world beating centre many keep suggesting he is....
Genuinely, who? Find me the quote.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
You could pick Croker and he'd be fine.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
NR - people like to laud Croker’s indivudual records and what he does for the club. He has been playing 1st grade since 2009 and has been captain for most that time. He has a win record of slightly over 47%.
Over 10 years when the raiders have run out with him in the team usually as skipper we have lost more often than we have won but somehow he is a sacred cow who’s selection should never be questioned.
47% career win record - wake up people!!
Over 10 years when the raiders have run out with him in the team usually as skipper we have lost more often than we have won but somehow he is a sacred cow who’s selection should never be questioned.
47% career win record - wake up people!!
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Re: Jarrod Croker
doesn't Papalii have a similar record?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 1:35 pm NR - people like to laud Croker’s indivudual records and what he does for the club. He has been playing 1st grade since 2009 and has been captain for most that time. He has a win record of slightly over 47%.
Over 10 years when the raiders have run out with him in the team usually as skipper we have lost more often than we have won but somehow he is a sacred cow who’s selection should never be questioned.
47% career win record - wake up people!!
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Papa would need to play many more seasons to catch Croker’s loss record of 128 games. Croker has a good 30 game loss lead on him. Can anyone point to a Raider who has captained or played in more losses than JC? My point is if you hang around a long time you do rack up lots of personal records but they aren’t all good and it’s wrong to selectively hold up some to justify the continued selection of a player without question.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Do you mean any current Raider's player?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:57 pm Papa would need to play many more seasons to catch Croker’s loss record of 128 games. Croker has a good 30 game loss lead on him. Can anyone point to a Raider who has captained or played in more losses than JC? My point is if you hang around a long time you do rack up lots of personal records but they aren’t all good and it’s wrong to selectively hold up some to justify the continued selection of a player without question.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
46%Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:37 pmdoesn't Papalii have a similar record?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 1:35 pm NR - people like to laud Croker’s indivudual records and what he does for the club. He has been playing 1st grade since 2009 and has been captain for most that time. He has a win record of slightly over 47%.
Over 10 years when the raiders have run out with him in the team usually as skipper we have lost more often than we have won but somehow he is a sacred cow who’s selection should never be questioned.
47% career win record - wake up people!!
What an utterly ridiculous post from Billy
Jason CrokerBilly Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:57 pm Can anyone point to a Raider who has captained or played in more losses than JC?
Re: Jarrod Croker
Billy... come on now!
Re: Jarrod Croker
No, your point was to apply a team win % to an individual to try and prove he’s a “loser” and it blew up in your face spectacularly because you didn’t take the time the carefully consider the insane Bull before you postedBilly Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:57 pm Papa would need to play many more seasons to catch Croker’s loss record of 128 games. Croker has a good 30 game loss lead on him. Can anyone point to a Raider who has captained or played in more losses than JC? My point is if you hang around a long time you do rack up lots of personal records but they aren’t all good and it’s wrong to selectively hold up some to justify the continued selection of a player without question.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Piggy - I take it you can’t name a Raiders captain who has over seen more losses than Jarrod Croker.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:02 pm46%Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:37 pmdoesn't Papalii have a similar record?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 1:35 pm NR - people like to laud Croker’s indivudual records and what he does for the club. He has been playing 1st grade since 2009 and has been captain for most that time. He has a win record of slightly over 47%.
Over 10 years when the raiders have run out with him in the team usually as skipper we have lost more often than we have won but somehow he is a sacred cow who’s selection should never be questioned.
47% career win record - wake up people!!
What an utterly ridiculous post from Billy
Jason CrokerBilly Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:57 pm Can anyone point to a Raider who has captained or played in more losses than JC?
Despite a career win record of close to 57% you are correct that Jason Croker played in 132 losses for the club. I’m tipping Jarrod will become the most losingest Raiders player in history by years end.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
FTR, Croker's win record as captain is 54%. Prior to that his win record was 42%. Definite upward trend.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
At a team level Papa has him covered mate - just because Crokes hasn’t played for state or country doesn’t mean we should discount Papa’s record for Qld, Aus and Samoa. Papa’s got a higher win % than Crokes. (Not by much I admit) but he has him covered.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:10 pmNo, your point was to apply a team win % to an individual to try and prove he’s a “loser” and it blew up in your face spectacularly because you didn’t take the time the carefully consider the insane Bull before you postedBilly Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:57 pm Papa would need to play many more seasons to catch Croker’s loss record of 128 games. Croker has a good 30 game loss lead on him. Can anyone point to a Raider who has captained or played in more losses than JC? My point is if you hang around a long time you do rack up lots of personal records but they aren’t all good and it’s wrong to selectively hold up some to justify the continued selection of a player without question.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
And Hodgo....Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:26 pm FTR, Croker's win record as captain is 54%. Prior to that his win record was 42%. Definite upward trend.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Hodgo has a 51.5% win record over the same period.Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:29 pmAnd Hodgo....Northern Raider wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:26 pm FTR, Croker's win record as captain is 54%. Prior to that his win record was 42%. Definite upward trend.
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Jarrod Croker
And the Blues have a 37% winning record in that time period.. they could do with a player that has a 47% win record
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Re: Jarrod Croker
I think throwing Australia and QLD's win percentage into the mix is more to do with players like Smith, Cronk, Thurston, Slater, Inglis and others, than any sort of brilliance on Papa's part.Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:28 pmAt a team level Papa has him covered mate - just because Crokes hasn’t played for state or country doesn’t mean we should discount Papa’s record for Qld, Aus and Samoa. Papa’s got a higher win % than Crokes. (Not by much I admit) but he has him covered.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:10 pmNo, your point was to apply a team win % to an individual to try and prove he’s a “loser” and it blew up in your face spectacularly because you didn’t take the time the carefully consider the insane Bull before you postedBilly Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 2:57 pm Papa would need to play many more seasons to catch Croker’s loss record of 128 games. Croker has a good 30 game loss lead on him. Can anyone point to a Raider who has captained or played in more losses than JC? My point is if you hang around a long time you do rack up lots of personal records but they aren’t all good and it’s wrong to selectively hold up some to justify the continued selection of a player without question.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Granted this list is from a few weeks ago, provided by Julian...Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 8:30 am I have him in the middle of the pack of centres across the NRL...
The centers in the NRL last week were: Jennings, Hoffman, Whare, Blake, Walker, Parker, Arthars, Kelly, Hunt, Ramien, Tupou, Mitchell, Croker, Cotric, O’Neill, Opacic, Hiku, Herbert, Staggs, Shibasaki, Lowe, Gagai, Momirovski, Marsters, Montoya, Hopoate, Chambers, Seve, Aitken, Lafai, Xerri and Morris.
That's 32 centres... Middle of the road... find me the 16 better than him.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Trick question. Are you talking QLD Gagai or Souffs Gagai?PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:54 pmGranted this list is from a few weeks ago, provided by Julian...Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 8:30 am I have him in the middle of the pack of centres across the NRL...
The centers in the NRL last week were: Jennings, Hoffman, Whare, Blake, Walker, Parker, Arthars, Kelly, Hunt, Ramien, Tupou, Mitchell, Croker, Cotric, O’Neill, Opacic, Hiku, Herbert, Staggs, Shibasaki, Lowe, Gagai, Momirovski, Marsters, Montoya, Hopoate, Chambers, Seve, Aitken, Lafai, Xerri and Morris.
That's 32 centres... Middle of the road... find me the 16 better than him.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Wow, that's a pretty ordinary list overall. Other than Latrell and Chambers, Croker has the wood on most of that bunch. Top 5 at least. Xerri and Cotric are obviously on the up, but here and now Croker has the runs on the board.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 3:54 pmGranted this list is from a few weeks ago, provided by Julian...Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 8:30 am I have him in the middle of the pack of centres across the NRL...
The centers in the NRL last week were: Jennings, Hoffman, Whare, Blake, Walker, Parker, Arthars, Kelly, Hunt, Ramien, Tupou, Mitchell, Croker, Cotric, O’Neill, Opacic, Hiku, Herbert, Staggs, Shibasaki, Lowe, Gagai, Momirovski, Marsters, Montoya, Hopoate, Chambers, Seve, Aitken, Lafai, Xerri and Morris.
That's 32 centres... Middle of the road... find me the 16 better than him.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Piggy is pulling out the least worst argument again - it doesn’t matter if our centre struggles so long as we can point to others he is better than...
I guess I have my views on Croker others have theirs... if only there was someone independent who knows rugby league who could settle the argument like say.... Brad Fitler and his team of selectors...
I guess I have my views on Croker others have theirs... if only there was someone independent who knows rugby league who could settle the argument like say.... Brad Fitler and his team of selectors...
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Do you actually have a point? I'm really not sure what your argument is so cannot run it by Freddy for confirmation.Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:40 pm Piggy is pulling out the least worst argument again - it doesn’t matter if our centre struggles so long as we can point to others he is better than...
I guess I have my views on Croker others have theirs... if only there was someone independent who knows rugby league who could settle the argument like say.... Brad Fitler and his team of selectors...
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Hahahahaha just caught up on this discussion, Billy just picking ball after ball out of his net here
Re: Jarrod Croker
You mean Fitler and his team of selectors who plucked Big Bad Dan Saifiti?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:40 pm Piggy is pulling out the least worst argument again - it doesn’t matter if our centre struggles so long as we can point to others he is better than...
I guess I have my views on Croker others have theirs... if only there was someone independent who knows rugby league who could settle the argument like say.... Brad Fitler and his team of selectors...
Yeah, cool cool.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Correct - I think we are on the same page now... even average players like Saifiti can crack the team, it’s the really below average players that don’t win a prize.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:53 pmYou mean Fitler and his team of selectors who plucked Big Bad Dan Saifiti?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:40 pm Piggy is pulling out the least worst argument again - it doesn’t matter if our centre struggles so long as we can point to others he is better than...
I guess I have my views on Croker others have theirs... if only there was someone independent who knows rugby league who could settle the argument like say.... Brad Fitler and his team of selectors...
Yeah, cool cool.
When the NSW selectors fill his position with one of his teammates playing out of position it almost suggests that perhaps he just ain’t that good.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
The same selectors who just dropped Latrell **** Mitchell, the “next Greg Inglis”?PigRickman wrote:You mean Fitler and his team of selectors who plucked Big Bad Dan Saifiti?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:40 pm Piggy is pulling out the least worst argument again - it doesn’t matter if our centre struggles so long as we can point to others he is better than...
I guess I have my views on Croker others have theirs... if only there was someone independent who knows rugby league who could settle the argument like say.... Brad Fitler and his team of selectors...
Yeah, cool cool.
Re: Jarrod Croker
I can see why NSW has not selected Croker. They have generally gone for a different sort of player (big, power runners), and he has had defensive issues at times, but these are seriously overstated. His form just prior to Origin I wasn’t great this year either.
However, to suggest he’s not amongst the best centres in the game, at least not in the top third of the pack... it is ludicrous IMO. There are suggestions here that he shouldn’t even be playing first for the Raiders or he should be ‘let go’. That is simply ridiculous IMO.
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However, to suggest he’s not amongst the best centres in the game, at least not in the top third of the pack... it is ludicrous IMO. There are suggestions here that he shouldn’t even be playing first for the Raiders or he should be ‘let go’. That is simply ridiculous IMO.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Alright, BillyBilly Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:59 pmCorrect - I think we are on the same page now... even average players like Saifiti can crack the team, it’s the really below average players that don’t win a prize.PigRickman wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:53 pmYou mean Fitler and his team of selectors who plucked Big Bad Dan Saifiti?Billy Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 4:40 pm Piggy is pulling out the least worst argument again - it doesn’t matter if our centre struggles so long as we can point to others he is better than...
I guess I have my views on Croker others have theirs... if only there was someone independent who knows rugby league who could settle the argument like say.... Brad Fitler and his team of selectors...
Yeah, cool cool.
When the NSW selectors fill his position with one of his teammates playing out of position it almost suggests that perhaps he just ain’t that good.
The list provided above, you go through those 32 names and post the ones you think are better the Croker
Re: Jarrod Croker
The thing about Origin teams is that you'll see a whole bunch of players being picked out of position simply because they are the best overall talents and the selectors/coaches will just fit them in however they have to. They talk about it all the time. Most of these really top class guys are versatile and can play across a number of positions with relative ease. Both sides do it. So the fact Croker isn't being picked in favour of someone playing out of their regular position doesn't mean he isn't one of the better regular centres in the NRL, he simply may not match it with the very top echelon in terms of raw talent. But there is few who do which is why Origin is what it is.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
GE - just between you and me, if I was given the task of Raiders selector for the next game I would be throwing the number 3 jumper to J Croker and leaving the (c) beside his name and giving him the kicking tee. He is the best option we have available for selection at the moment and he isn’t horribly out of form.greeneyed wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 5:14 pm I can see why NSW has not selected Croker. They have generally gone for a different sort of player (big, power runners), and he has had defensive issues at times, but these are seriously overstated. His form just prior to Origin I wasn’t great this year either.
However, to suggest he’s not amongst the best centres in the game, at least not in the top third of the pack... it is ludicrous IMO. There are suggestions here that he shouldn’t even be playing first for the Raiders or he should be ‘let go’. That is simply ridiculous IMO.
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I’ve probably been a bit antagonist on the whole issue but it just irks me that JC has somehow reached a status where his position is beyond questioning.
I do get that he has been great for the club for a long time and maybe clubs need a core of supporters blindly devoted to their players but there needs to be some level of objectivity about the whole debate.
I’ve probably said more than enough on the whole debate today but I won’t apologise for questioning the form or selection of any player where warranted and I’m not alone in asking questions about whether Croker is the long term option. It’s the reaction of being shouted down for even mentioning the thought that makes me go harder at the issue than possibly warranted.
Anyway - it’s all good fun and promise I won’t be disappointed if he does end up holding the premiership trophy aloft this year (unless it because we traded him before the cutoff - that would be awkward!)
Re: Jarrod Croker
Let the man dig a bigger hole GE!greeneyed wrote:Billy... come on now!
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Re: Jarrod Croker
Woah billy! Don’t back down now, you big cowardBilly Walker wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 5:37 pmGE - just between you and me, if I was given the task of Raiders selector for the next game I would be throwing the number 3 jumper to J Croker and leaving the (c) beside his name and giving him the kicking tee. He is the best option we have available for selection at the moment and he isn’t horribly out of form.greeneyed wrote: ↑June 17, 2019, 5:14 pm I can see why NSW has not selected Croker. They have generally gone for a different sort of player (big, power runners), and he has had defensive issues at times, but these are seriously overstated. His form just prior to Origin I wasn’t great this year either.
However, to suggest he’s not amongst the best centres in the game, at least not in the top third of the pack... it is ludicrous IMO. There are suggestions here that he shouldn’t even be playing first for the Raiders or he should be ‘let go’. That is simply ridiculous IMO.
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I’ve probably been a bit antagonist on the whole issue but it just irks me that JC has somehow reached a status where his position is beyond questioning.
I do get that he has been great for the club for a long time and maybe clubs need a core of supporters blindly devoted to their players but there needs to be some level of objectivity about the whole debate.
I’ve probably said more than enough on the whole debate today but I won’t apologise for questioning the form or selection of any player where warranted and I’m not alone in asking questions about whether Croker is the long term option. It’s the reaction of being shouted down for even mentioning the thought that makes me go harder at the issue than possibly warranted.
Anyway - it’s all good fun and promise I won’t be disappointed if he does end up holding the premiership trophy aloft this year (unless it because we traded him before the cutoff - that would be awkward!)
Go through the list and tell me the names.
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Re: Jarrod Croker
How on earth does anyone come to the conclusion that potentially moving on the 3rd best centre at this club is “ridiculous”?
We can’t keep everyone and we’re obviously battling to keep Jordan Rapana who is an elite level winger.
If it’s between the 2 of them for cap space .... who are we going to miss ? I’ll give you the drum, it’s Jordan Rapana every day of the week.
We haven’t won a premiership in 25 years and we need every advantage we can get.
We can’t keep everyone and we’re obviously battling to keep Jordan Rapana who is an elite level winger.
If it’s between the 2 of them for cap space .... who are we going to miss ? I’ll give you the drum, it’s Jordan Rapana every day of the week.
We haven’t won a premiership in 25 years and we need every advantage we can get.