2019 Rd 11 V Cowboys: Game Day

[edwahu]

Hodgson isn't stunting our attack. It's overstated. Even yesterday we created 4 try scoring opportunities with him on the park vs one with Havili, which was just Havili scoring it himself. The previous two games we created enough to win as well.

Every week I also read about endless crash balls when the only game it was really that far above average was the Parra one, which was still our best performance this year. The last 5 or 6 weeks it hasn't even been above what most other teams do and stats show that the halves have got more than enough Footy during that period. if anything we should go back to Hodgson controlling even more.

CNK and the lack of a right side attack is a much bigger issue in attack at the moment.

Agree to disagree Ed. I think the try scoring chances comparison is a long bow. Hodgson might be our most creative player but the broader issue is no one has the slightest idea what he's going to do so it is confusing everything. He needs to try simplify rather than try do everything which is what is happening. Ricky has thrown him the keys which makes sense but he also needs to monitor the situation and recognise that doing this has a domino effect on the other playmakers.

Even putting yesterday aside, the ball the halves have got has increased since the Parramatta game and results have gone backwards. Hodgson hasn't run the attack to near the degree that gets suggested since then. I mean I'd guess our left edge would be the most used in the comp in that period.

By far the biggest drop off in attack stems from the reduction in tries created by our fullback and obviously the loss of the tries from nothing created by BJ, Bateman and Rapana. We have no right side attack and the left hasn't returned what we needed it to.

[yurithe1]

The players have forgotten what was working for them immediately after the Storm game and that was moving up in defence and smothering the opposition.

Far too often yesterday, they did as they have done so often in the past -- waited for the ball-carrier to come to them rather than killing his momentum near the advantage line.

Any day now, they'll go back to their other old cardinal sin of back-peddling in defence and allowing the opposition to pickup and easy 50-60 metres.

The question is whether the boys are tired or whether the defensive coach has dropped the ball. My opinion is that it's a little bit of the former and a lot of the latter. If he or Ricky haven't noticed the crappy defensive reads Croker has been making by now, then perhaps the Greenhouse could crowd fund a seeing eye dog for them.

[Timbo]

Agree re: defence.

They were treating Taumalolo like he was covered in spiders yesterday. No one even tried to engage him half the time.

[RedRaider]

The glaring structural defensive lapses for me yesterday was only one marker to allow Granville to make the dummy half break and the cross field kick from Morgan to the Raiders who had no left side defensive players to take the ball. All match we didn't hit the Cowboys in numbers and drive them back which was a feature of early in the season. We wanted to waltz with them. Also we didn't attack the legs of Lolo which gave him too many post contact meters. Our defensive effort simply wasn't there. I know we have a lot of FG players out, but tough defence should be Club culture and unfortunately for us, it has lapsed as the season has moved on.

[edwahu]

The refs cracking down on us in the ruck has hurt. It's a big reason our line speed and defensive performance in general is down.

[zim]

Hodgson isn't stunting our attack. It's overstated. Even yesterday we created 4 try scoring opportunities with him on the park vs one with Havili, which was just Havili scoring it himself. The previous two games we created enough to win as well.

Every week I also read about endless crash balls when the only game it was really that far above average was the Parra one, which was still our best performance this year. The last 5 or 6 weeks it hasn't even been above what most other teams do and stats show that the halves have got more than enough Footy during that period. if anything we should go back to Hodgson controlling even more.

CNK and the lack of a right side attack is a much bigger issue in attack at the moment.

Agree to disagree Ed. I think the try scoring chances comparison is a long bow. Hodgson might be our most creative player but the broader issue is no one has the slightest idea what he's going to do so it is confusing everything. He needs to try simplify rather than try do everything which is what is happening. Ricky has thrown him the keys which makes sense but he also needs to monitor the situation and recognise that doing this has a domino effect on the other playmakers.

Even putting yesterday aside, the ball the halves have got has increased since the Parramatta game and results have gone backwards. Hodgson hasn't run the attack to near the degree that gets suggested since then. I mean I'd guess our left edge would be the most used in the comp in that period.

By far the biggest drop off in attack stems from the reduction in tries created by our fullback and obviously the loss of the tries from nothing created by BJ, Bateman and Rapana. We have no right side attack and the left hasn't returned what we needed it to.

I thought that first half was the most attacking structure we've run with all year. The crash ball was almost non-existent. We made CNK a focal point, we tried to work some plays, we had 2 try scoring chances muffed, and it all came apart in the 2nd half when hodgo went off.

[zim]

I'm absolutely gutted with that loss, but I do think a lot of the comments here and elsewhere are a bit OTT.

The biggest issue which Twisted says above is the attack is completely awful and reliant on individual effort. There is no structure to anything and it is opportunistic. We have the chance with Hodgson out to get the ball to the halves early and try work some running plays because as I keep saying no one has a clue what Hodgson is going to do and even before the game Ricky was interviewed and said that Hodgson dictates what ball the halves get which lines up with what i've been saying the past month or so. It appears our idea of attack is let the hooker just dart out of dummy half and try isolate what he deems a poor defender with a bigger player receiving the ball late and trying to steamroll over the top of them. It's the height of basic football and so predictable that everyone is onto it in 2019 already. I've lost count in the past 2 weeks alone where the ball has gone to Horsbrough on the 4th, most of those when we're in the red zone. That's criminal. The fallout of that game was something that was always coming on here, we have a stinker and then we have a massive EDIT contest over why Williams shouldn't be selected like the issue of him vs Sezer is the main fault line and swapping the 2 would've been the difference. It isn't. The glaring problem is we have no structure to the attack so while we've all been sitting here for 2 months talking about the improved defence, the attack has been as bad as I can recall and the more you reflect, the more you realise what most of our points so far have come from either barge overs or BJ starting the season superbly.

Croker didn't have a good game but I find it weird that now all of a sudden his jamming in is a thing. It's always been a problem and bringing it up gets many people into a frenzy. It's the same with Williams but receives less overall critique in that both players are on the small side for NRL players so race up to get early contact to negate the deficiency. His physical attributes don't match up well as an NRL centre, that's how he compensates and people know it. It's not news. He has improved over time at getting more right than wrong so i'll put today down as a blemish but in the grand scheme of things, his defence will never be up there with the better NRL centres.

We ran with a compressed line to try and counteract JT13 and that failed too. So we then had rubbish in the middle and overlaps out wide. Our defensive structure was changed for this game and it was executed poorly.

[BadnMean]

I’ve jumped on the thread late after the 3 hour drive back to Sydney last night - so apologies if this has already been said, but Williams was a passenger yesterday. I really thought he would try take the game on in the second half but he rarely took the line on and just seemed content with distributing the ball?!? And CNK really needs to develop a passing game. It’s so clunky when he gets it wide and there is nothing happening for him individually!



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Already noted but yeah, most on here agree.

For CNK I guess we still have to wait and hope he develops. Otherwise he'd be just as good as a winger (strong carry, can find the try line, very nice safe fielding kicks) and we may have to go a bit left field and try Jordy Raps at FB at some point. If we are struggling for creativity and inspiration then why not get the ball in the hands of one of our best players more often? He can pass, his support play is very good, 1 on 1 defence is good...

That's a last resort if we need to turn our season around somehow and CNK doesn't start to build up his passing game.

[Woodgers]

Bad teams blame their best players for lack of success.

Once Hodgson went off the park yesterday the only time we looked like we had any idea what we were doing was when Havili was running direct out of hooker
What little organisation and structure we have went off the park with Hodgson

If Hodgson is out, I think you’re going to find out in a real hurry fans blaming the halfbacks terrible play on Hodgson are wildly off the mark

I'm not blaming the best player Pig, i'm blaming the absolute lack of any attacking structure that results in our attack revolving around the best player seemingly playing ad lib football and results in him overplaying his hand quite a lot IMO. I'm not slamming the bloke, I am stating that for all his positives a negative is he's not quite worked out when to pull back and let others do their thing. I don't think that is unfair.

You're the one ignoring the structure issues and picking the low hanging fruit by blaming Williams for our issues when (I think - haven't looked up stats since Penrith game) he touches the ball less than the other 2 playmakers. Now this is far from a Williams endorsement, i'm complaining about the coaching of the attack rather than individuals but I am also suggesting that the coaching is leaving a lot of the attack to Hodgson to just create it all. We need to be more varied than that and it is showing.

That's the way i've been viewing it anyway, it appears many respectable posters are seeing it differently though which is good for discussion.

[Botman]

Williams gets plenty of chances with the football, Woody. Most of it he turns back inside for a **** hit up on tackle 4.

We have structure, but one of our halves is very poor (which ever plays) and our fullback position no longer has any ball playing ability. Our structure looks OK (not great but perfectly average) going through Wighton... i just dont see how our halfback's lack of creativity and ability (and again, that's whether Sezer or Williams plays there) is a result of players not knowing what Josh Hodgson is doing. I think it's mostly because we have a severely limited half on that side of the field and that side of the field has also lost Beej and Rapana.

I just dont agree that Hodgson doesnt left the #7 do his thing. He gives them plenty of chances to do their thing. Their thing just **** stinks.
But as you said, there is reasonable POVs on both sides of this, so it makes for an interesting discussion. I think we're going to spend the next 6-8 weeks understanding how much we may under appreciate Josh Hodgson.

[afgtnk]

Aside from our continued halfback woes and Hodgson trying to do too much, I do think The Klok's lack of ability with ball in hand is telling and has been understated because of the other facets in his game.

Nowadays you really need your fullback to be the link between the halves and the outside backs. Especially on those sweep plays, which are the absolute bread and butter of sides in the NRL. Fullback is as much about being on the end of tries as it is catching bombs and positioning.

What we're seeing now is the ball travelling to him on a rehearsed move and the play stopping dead in its tracks because he keeps getting caught with it.

Don't get me wrong - he's been a breath of fresh air at the back after enduring Jack's up and down nature for multiple seasons, but I don't know if keeping him there is sustainble in the game today. It something that he has to develop fast or else we run the risk of teams really exploiting the weakness.

[Dr Zaius]

That's something that he can develop. It's early times for the Klok

[Botman]

That's something that he can develop. It's early times for the Klok

100%
I wouldnt be moving him, and he's already shown he's a quick learner, so we'll see how he goes, something to monitor and revisit in 12 months time. But it's undeniable that right here and now, our lack of ball playing at fullback has limited us offensively.

[Billy Walker]

Aside from our continued halfback woes and Hodgson trying to do too much, I do think The Klok's lack of ability with ball in hand is telling and has been understated because of the other facets in his game.

Nowadays you really need your fullback to be the link between the halves and the outside backs. Especially on those sweep plays, which are the absolute bread and butter of sides in the NRL. Fullback is as much about being on the end of tries as it is catching bombs and positioning.

What we're seeing now is the ball travelling to him on a rehearsed move and the play stopping dead in its tracks because he keeps getting caught with it.

Don't get me wrong - he's been a breath of fresh air at the back after enduring Jack's up and down nature for multiple seasons, but I don't know if keeping him there is sustainble in the game today. It something that he has to develop fast or else we run the risk of teams really exploiting the weakness.

Good post. I’ve been impressed by CNK but maybe a lot of that is due to his positional play, safety under a kick and gutsy carries. All good stuff but you make some good points about what’s missing from his game. I’m not calling for his head but 12 months is too generous. I would like to see some quicker improvement

[Botman]

the trouble with that is, 12 months is the ABSOLUTE best we can hope for in significant development in the area of ball playing. It takes players YEARS to develop that, most fullbacks who struggle in this area never actually develop it all.

If you think 12 months is too generous, you should be calling for his head, because it aint coming sooner than that.

FWIW, i love CNK, and i hate the position this puts me in. But i completely agree and have said so for some time now. I am VERY concerned for his ball playing. Im willing to give him time but aksfaja is right, the ability to ball play and be a link man is a vital part of being an NRL fullback and virtually every time the ball lands in his hands on a second man play, the ball stops. It's a major concern.

[Billy Walker]

Melbourne seem to have found 23 fullbacks to replace Slater. As soon as one falls over they roll out an even better one. I’m a big CKN fan as well but I think success only comes when you take a hard nose approach to selections. Hearing what you say I’m more inclined to give him 12 months in Mounties to develop a passing game.

[Botman]

Yeah, i love CNK... but i'd still be looking at Dylan Edwards (and boy could we get him on discount right now, given the **** show that is Penrith) because im a sucker for my local area talent... but ignoring him, because he's been playing some of the worst footy i've seen and maybe he's just another penrith junior i love who isnt actually that good...
there is a **** ton of fullback talent out there, and the club shouldnt be shy of looking to find something else... Hughes and the Pap, somethings gotta give and both of those dudes are fantastic.

[InFernos_Raiders]

The glaring structural defensive lapses for me yesterday was only one marker to allow Granville to make the dummy half break and the cross field kick from Morgan to the Raiders who had no left side defensive players to take the ball. All match we didn't hit the Cowboys in numbers and drive them back which was a feature of early in the season. We wanted to waltz with them. Also we didn't attack the legs of Lolo which gave him too many post contact meters. Our defensive effort simply wasn't there. I know we have a lot of FG players out, but tough defence should be Club culture and unfortunately for us, it has lapsed as the season has moved on.

Totally agree..I understand the injuries but every club has injuries the difference between the top four sides is how to adapt and continue to play at a high standard. As the season has got on our defence has gone backwards errors and silly penalties.
Yes we came off two tough games but again that’s what makes a top four side a Champion side.
Now with Hodgo gone for a month plus and the loss of Cotric and Wigjton we have no chance of beating Dogs next week away. I honestly believe our captain should be Pappa not Croker.

[greeneyed]

Raiders.com.au competition to vote man of the match: https://www.raiders.com.au/competitions ... vote-motm/

Round 11 Gallery: Raiders v Cowboys: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/05 ... v-cowboys/

Round 11 Moment of the week: Bailey Simonsson try: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/05 ... -the-week/

[gerg]

The refs cracking down on us in the ruck has hurt. It's a big reason our line speed and defensive performance in general is down.

Yeah 3 early penalties and our defence seemed gun shy. Then again early in the second half.

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[Timbo]

That's something that he can develop. It's early times for the Klok

I agree. He's very much a work in progress, but so many aspects of his game are already of a FG standard, and he's only 23 with 18 games under his belt.

[greeneyed]

@TheGHRaiders on Twitter

Time to vote NICK COTRIC Canberra Raiders fans! #NRL #WeAreRaiders #wearecbr

Choose the NRL Tackle of the Week for round 11 https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/27/cho ... -round-11/ via @NRL

[woppadingo]

So now CNK has 18 games of first grade and we're talking about him not being up to it?
I was not sold on him at the start of the season but I have seen now that whenever he gets the ball he seems to look dangerous, has speed to worry the defence and has nade good choices when passing. Add to that he has been very reliable under the high ball.
I dont think he is part of any problem.
But Williams has shown again, after a few good games, he slips back into mediocrity. A lack of creativity, a lack of sharpness in his passing, failing to take on the line at opportune moments, overall he does not worry the opposition defence. I think his defence is not as bad as some say. A lot of half backs are terrible defenders.
Did we lose because of Sam Williams on saturday? No. But we would have won with a better halfback, who would have challenged the opposition and created more opportunties.
Now is the time to tell hingano/ sezer, its time to sieze the opportunity and make the spot your own.

[BadnMean]

No one has said CNK isn't up to it, they are noting that there are areas of his game to work on to become a better FB. And currently without Hodgo and much creativity coming from the halves, we are really missing some ball play from the FB because it leaves us with a spine without any real good ball players in it-

Havilli has a strong running game and gives clean early ball when he's going well.
Sam, well you said it (but he is actually the worst or near worst defensive half in the comp, statistically)
Jack, yes he can but he's a stronger runner and only having 1 player in your spine with an above average passing game is a real issue.
Sezer or Hingano????? I hope so but not so far.

When and how and if that will develop for CNK was the discussion.

[greeneyed]

Weekly Graham Annesley media briefing: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/27/gra ... -round-11/

Statistics showing that time the ball is in play is up, fewer penalties and fewer penalty goals YTD.

Head injuries. Extensive procedures. Player must leave the field on the basis of a number of indicators... but bleeding from the head isn't one of them. Decisions are in the hands of qualified medical personnel, must comply with the NRL rules, but they are accountable to their professions. NRL reviews all incidents every week.

There were no controversial rulings on the weekend.

When can a quick tap be taken or not? Permitted, except for 10m penalties or within the 10m red zone, penalties from kicks in general play, where the referee needs to take further action.

Teams with significant injuries and Origin reps, eg Canberra, Manly. Must they name 21 man squads? They must name 21, no team has been in touch about exceptional circumstance requests.

Jame Segeyaro. Signed a contract, lodged with the NRL for registration appropriately, cap auditor provisionally cleared to play, he didn't play unregistered.

[greeneyed]

Raiders falling down power rankings

8. Canberra Raiders (5)
Quite a drop for the Raiders. They were very disappointing at home and shouldn't have let that game slip because it could come back to haunt them. That's three losses in a row now and Ricky Stuart must be concerned heading into the Origin period. They were right in that game against Souths last week but didn't back it up against the Cowboys.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/27/sow ... s-falling/

[Roger Kenworthy]

CNK could make another leap by improving his backing up. That's something that is an effort/fitness thing and would make an improvement straight away.

[Lui_Bon]

Melbourne seem to have found 23 fullbacks to replace Slater. As soon as one falls over they roll out an even better one. I’m a big CKN fan as well but I think success only comes when you take a hard nose approach to selections. Hearing what you say I’m more inclined to give him 12 months in Mounties to develop a passing game.

so who are you playing at fullback instead?

seriously, I do wonder at the demands you people are putting on inexperienced first-graders. Where do they get the experience? At Mounties? ****

[LastRaider]

CNK is a raw talent which needs to be developed. He is young but perfect for us to shape and turn into one of the best fullbacks in the game. He reminds me a lot of Slater when we was just starting


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[The Nickman]

Melbourne seem to have found 23 fullbacks to replace Slater. As soon as one falls over they roll out an even better one. I’m a big CKN fan as well but I think success only comes when you take a hard nose approach to selections. Hearing what you say I’m more inclined to give him 12 months in Mounties to develop a passing game.

so who are you playing at fullback instead?

seriously, I do wonder at the demands you people are putting on inexperienced first-graders. Where do they get the experience? At Mounties? ****

Haha Billy Walker is starting to really lose the plot over the last few weeks.

[greeneyed]

By the numbers: Raiders v Cowboys: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/05 ... v-cowboys/

[Billy Walker]

Melbourne seem to have found 23 fullbacks to replace Slater. As soon as one falls over they roll out an even better one. I’m a big CKN fan as well but I think success only comes when you take a hard nose approach to selections. Hearing what you say I’m more inclined to give him 12 months in Mounties to develop a passing game.

so who are you playing at fullback instead?

seriously, I do wonder at the demands you people are putting on inexperienced first-graders. Where do they get the experience? At Mounties? ****

Haha Billy Walker is starting to really lose the plot over the last few weeks.

Haha - well it is getting cold! I was only agreeing with Pigman about CNK so I’m blaming him! I do like CNK but he does need a passing game. He ran at a better height against the cows but in the Rooters game he was a bit high and often darted 10 yards to be carried back 7 yards. I am a CNK fan - not sure if it’s the top knot or the Jesus wrist strapping but I like him!

[greeneyed]

Canberra Raiders helping to make Deadly Choices

The Canberra Raiders celebrated the NRL’s Indigenous round last weekend, with the announcement of a new partnership with Deadly Choices to help promote Indigenous Health.

“This program is a wonderful way the Raiders can help our local Indigenous community to ensure they are doing everything they can for their health and wellbeing,” Mr Furner said. “11% of local rugby league players have been identified as being either Indigenous or Torres Strait islander, so we know the impact rugby league can have on these communities.

Read more: https://www.raiders.com.au/news/2019/05 ... y-choices/

[-TW-]

Justin O'Neill just moved out of ICU at Canberra Hospital after emergency surgery to fix ruptured spleen: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... a113952016

I honestly cant remember when this happened.

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[greeneyed]

Appears to have happened when he scored the try. Heavy tackle, but nothing illegal in it.